[News] John Harbaugh Explains Decision To Accept Fourth-Down Penalty

[Fastynart]

I am not a Harbaugh fan. I think that he is the worst clock manager in the NFL, constantly blowing time outs early instead of having them when he needs them at the end of the game. However, in this instance, I am with him. If the defense hadn't reverted to its former last year's self, allowing long completions on third down, no one would be questioning his decision to accept the penalty. It was a good call.

[haarvik]

Coaching staff lost this game...period! GO for two...yeah because we are so good at it. Then instead of declining a penalty to force them into a field goal, we accept it and let them get the touchdown. Really!?!?!? We SUCK at 3rd and long!!! Probably 90% of 3rd and long gets a first down. This game was ours, and we gave it away. Starting to look more and more like the 2015 team yet again. What will the excuse be this year?

[TheConquerorWorm]

10 hours ago, Jim from Ellicott City said:

John Harbaugh does not seem to be much of an x's and o's guy. Feel free to beat me up but I was not impressed with the Jacksonville game when he ran Tucker onto the field to attempt a 57 yard field goal as time ran down and no time to switch out the offense ball for the kicker ball. There is a huge difference between a fully inflated "K" ball and an offense ball (just ask Tom Brady). Anyway, a Special teams coach should know this. The 57 yard attempt was right down the middle but short. The Ravens got lucky with a penalty and Harbaugh got away with his mistake. His decisions during today's games were worse. The decision to go for 2 was bad (it was too early) but the decision to give Oakland another chance to keep a drive alive when the defense stopped them after Flacco and the O-line coughed the ball up on their own 30 was mind numbing. I put it right there with Tom Caughlin decision to throw on 3 down with 47 seconds left against Dallas who, as we know, had no timeouts. Both decisions cost their teams a win. BTW, when did holding a team to a FG become a bad thing especially when you turned the ball over already in FG range? What a moron.

Kickers would rather have the offense ball - a used ball is easier to kick than the hard "K" ball (That's why you see kickers pressing the ball on the ground to try and soften it up).

I agree with the decision to go for 2. You're at home, you have momentum at the time. You tie the game there.

And you always accept the penalty if it takes the team out of field goal range. It was a 42 yard FG before the penalty - would have been a 54 yard FG after. You blame Harbaugh for the decision but not the defense for giving up 24 yards on 3rd & 17? Let's be honest - the defense choked on that play and choked on the final drive. Players were out of position, coverage was bad & ZERO pass rush. Not the head coach, not the DC - the players - CHOKED and didn't get it done. Period.

Edited October 3, 2016 by TheConquerorWorm

[sticks999]

Boneheaded decision. This was a no brainer. I was shocked when he took the penalty. Just plain stupid!! Stupid, knew it at the time.

[PalmBayRaven]

The games change from week to week. Big Ben looked like Kyle Boller last week in Philly. Last night it was Alex Smith's turn to look awful. Could Joe have played better yesterday? He'd be the first to tell you he could have. The Raider fans leaving the stadium yesterday were acting like getting to 3-1 was like winning the Super Bowl. We are 3-1 and our season is over according to the comments I see this morning.

Joe pretty much always looks like crap. At least the last 4 games and last year before he was hurt looked like crap. Joe is the common denominator. Holds the ball too long, no pocket awareness, back foot lobs continue to kill us. He is a 9 year veteran and rookies are playing better than Joe at this point. Not to mention (2) Fumbles in last 2 games along with his interceptions. Not worth the money we are paying him. Not elite by any means.

[Ravenshine]

I understand Harbs decision even if I don't agree with it. The only part I don't agree with is it was 4th down...take it. Yet, he makes a valid point...that field goal from further away could have been missed. Then we'd all be happy he accepted the penalty. Hindsight is 20/20 it's always easier after the fact...so, an honest mistake even tho we should never do THAT again...I understand it's strategy in theory.

[redrum52]

This decision as dumb as it was showed a supreme lack of faith in the offense and can't blame him.

[redrum52]

5 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

Kickers would rather have the offense ball - a used ball is easier to kick than the hard "K" ball (That's why you see kickers pressing the ball on the ground to try and soften it up).

I agree with the decision to go for 2. You're at home, you have momentum at the time. You tie the game there.

And you always accept the penalty if it takes the team out of field goal range. It was a 42 yard FG before the penalty - would have been a 54 yard FG after. You blame Harbaugh for the decision but not the defense for giving up 24 yards on 3rd & 17? Let's be honest - the defense choked on that play and choked on the final drive. Players were out of position, coverage was bad & ZERO pass rush. Not the head coach, not the DC - the players - CHOKED and didn't get it done. Period.

They did get it done which is why there was a choice between 4th down. And 3rs and long...

[Space11jams]

This decision as dumb as it was showed a supreme lack of faith in the offense and can't blame him.

wasn't dumb....he put trust in the defense that they would not let them gain 15+ yards in one play which they allowed...that's the defense fault...it's 3rd and very long...how do you let them regain all them yards?

[Space11jams]

Harbaugh and Aiken lost this game. Period

that's a stretch....Aiken had two passes thrown to him all game if i'm not mistake. This game was lost by the inconsistent play calling of the OC. Why did we give up on the run game the 1st quarter of the game? If we kept plugging away in the run game earlier, who knows what type of game that would be. We had the ball back and West broke a big run. Instead of continuing to feed him the ball because the run offense was clicking, we pass 3-4 times and threw the game away. If they wanted to pass, at least hit a PA play. Oak def was bitting on the run, that would've freed someone up and flacco would've hit him. NO, we passed, passed, passed and made it so obivious. None of our OC accept Kubiack had deception written in the play calling. We're so predictable it's ridiculous.

[btfan2]

I don't fault Harbaugh for the 2 bad decisions. He's the coach and he made a decision based on whatever.

I fault him for his constant mediocrity. He does the same thing over and over. Pee's can be a good DC but; he's not; Tressmen just plain sucks. Will either problem be addressed - NO!

Joe is in a bad spot again with a lousy line. All of you Joe haters watch any QB being sacked, pressured, hit etc over and over and they no matter how elite will suck. I've watched that occur with every big time QB.

That said; Joe does need to improve pocket presence. He needs to find ways to help himself and maybe start kicking some o-line butt.

We continually have an o-line problem and a secondary problem year after year after year. That's not Joe's fault. Product on the field is the head coach's responsibility period.

We're the Ravens we will always be ugly. We need to be winning ugly not losing ugly. We do look better than last year But...........

[OUravensfan]

23 hours ago, Red723 said:

and this is why Bill Belichek is who he is. He doesn't makes these types of mistakes.

Remember the AFCG against Manning when he went for it in the 4th quarter on 4th and 2 on his own 20 and didn't get it? Pretty sure he had a lead too 

Edited October 3, 2016 by OUravensfan

[Jim from Ellicott City]

  18 hours ago, Jim from Ellicott City said:

John Harbaugh does not seem to be much of an x's and o's guy. Feel free to beat me up but I was not impressed with the Jacksonville game when he ran Tucker onto the field to attempt a 57 yard field goal as time ran down and no time to switch out the offense ball for the kicker ball. There is a huge difference between a fully inflated "K" ball and an offense ball (just ask Tom Brady). Anyway, a Special teams coach should know this. The 57 yard attempt was right down the middle but short. The Ravens got lucky with a penalty and Harbaugh got away with his mistake. His decisions during today's games were worse. The decision to go for 2 was bad (it was too early) but the decision to give Oakland another chance to keep a drive alive when the defense stopped them after Flacco and the O-line coughed the ball up on their own 30 was mind numbing. I put it right there with Tom Caughlin decision to throw on 3 down with 47 seconds left against Dallas who, as we know, had no timeouts. Both decisions cost their teams a win. BTW, when did holding a team to a FG become a bad thing especially when you turned the ball over already in FG range? What a moron.

Kickers would rather have the offense ball - a used ball is easier to kick than the hard "K" ball (That's why you see kickers pressing the ball on the ground to try and soften it up).

I agree with the decision to go for 2. You're at home, you have momentum at the time. You tie the game there.

And you always accept the penalty if it takes the team out of field goal range. It was a 42 yard FG before the penalty - would have been a 54 yard FG after. You blame Harbaugh for the decision but not the defense for giving up 24 yards on 3rd & 17? Let's be honest - the defense choked on that play and choked on the final drive. Players were out of position, coverage was bad & ZERO pass rush. Not the head coach, not the DC - the players - CHOKED and didn't get it done. Period.

We are going to continue to disagree. Kicker only practice with "K" balls. Asking a kicker to kick a 57 yard FG with a ball that they never use is bad coaching. When Tucker said the kicking the Offense ball is like kicking a chocolate bar I do not believe that he thinks kicking chocolate bars make good footballs. As for going for 2, the Ravens struggle to score in the red zone as it is. The league average is a little less than 50%. Last year the Ravens were successful 25% of the time. When you are all but guaranteed 1 pt, going for 2 with a less than 50% chance, probably much less, seems foolish especially with so much time still on the clock. Lastly, Harbaugh explanation for accepting the penalty a giving the Raiders another shot at a 1st down was based on his gut feeling that points were going to be at a premium but he gives up a definite 1 for a less than 50% chance at 2. So what was it? To me, it was bad coaching.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

On 10/2/2016 at 6:14 PM, Red723 said:

and this is why Bill Belichek is who he is. He doesn't makes these types of mistakes.

The 'great' Beli-cheat has made several similar so called 'mistakes' before (i.e. last Super Bowl they won, failure to use TO when it was a fore gone conclusion that Beast-mode would get the call to seal the game with hardly anything left on the clock), but he got lucky because Pete got stupid).

That said, at the very least Harb played the odds analytically correct (as head coaches should do); however, he failed to realize how fatigued and rattled his defensive unit was and how proficient their offense was (2nd Ranked) at the time, but that's not totally his responsibility. The DC and OC have more responsibility to assessing the probabilities based on the opponents and their players potential to perform and win the play (Situational Awareness).

Several times in the past, Raven Leaders and Team Captains would voice their assessments as well. None of that happened. Even with that - the final outcome can still go the other way. It's not chess or checkers - it's roulette.

A 'Bang-Bang' judgement call based on probability ended-up being a critical factor in the final outcome. On any Sunday that's why we play the game.

Reminder: That 'mistake' is only a 'mistake' when some how it doesn't workout.   

[redrum52]

6 hours ago, Space11jams said:

wasn't dumb....he put trust in the defense that they would not let them gain 15+ yards in one play which they allowed...that's the defense fault...it's 3rd and very long...how do you let them regain all them yards?

they didn't even need a first to still be able to reach fg range, which was still very attainable.  You're opening yourself up for a penalty, a td or to end up with basically the same result you had anyway, which was the fg.  How much pressure had we really been getting on Carr anyway?  No one will convince ME it was a good decision.

 

[FLBoyRaven]

Sorry but this play lost us the game. The D held up there end throughout the game so when you get a 4th and long you just take it. Let them kick a fg and if we lose by fg so be it, but you don't give an offense that was already gaining momentum another opprutunity. By far the worst decision Harbs has ever made. I'm pretty sure the D thought it was too as they were on the field all damn game and saw a 4th down as a win. Smh we should be 4-0 no doubt in my mind this game was lost by coaching. Trestman is not that great a play caller I think we are starting to see that.