The Good, Bad and UGLY week 4 against the Raiders

[PurpleCity5]

4 minutes ago, TurkishRaven said:

After watching the Vikings game, can't we double Shererce side of the field? I think that's what they did to OBJ. Whenever he was targeted there were 2 defenders, one in front one behind. 

I am still learning the game so please ignore if this is a dumb question.

We could but Jimmy might need help too. Xavier Rhodes an is exceptional CB. Just got this from twitter on how insane he's been since returning: "When Xavier Rhodes has been targeted this season, he's allowed an NFL passer rating of 0.0. 3 for 10 for 23 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT and 1 PD." Jimmy has nothing near those kind of numbers. 
That's the luxury of a shut down CB, you can add help to Wright's side of the field. 

I wouldn't trust Jimmy one-on-one yet, he's still working his way back up, the 2014 Jimmy Smith surely, but not this one, just not yet. 

[TurkishRaven]

8 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

We could but Jimmy might need help too. Xavier Rhodes an is exceptional CB. Just got this from twitter on how insane he's been since returning: "When Xavier Rhodes has been targeted this season, he's allowed an NFL passer rating of 0.0. 3 for 10 for 23 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT and 1 PD." Jimmy has nothing near those kind of numbers. 
That's the luxury of a shut down CB, you can add help to Wright's side of the field. 

I wouldn't trust Jimmy one-on-one yet, he's still working his way back up, the 2014 Jimmy Smith surely, but not this one, just not yet. 

It's just sad that we knew what they were going to do and we could not stop it.

At least it's exposed so I hope Pees will find a cure to that. 

[Dr. Kelley]

24 minutes ago, TurkishRaven said:

It's just sad that we knew what they were going to do and we could not stop it.

At least it's exposed so I hope Pees will find a cure to that. 

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for Pees to actually fix anything

[FerrariFan87]

Good: Running game (T. West) and Steve Smith, Sr.; Honorable Mention to Tucker who continues to impress.

Bad: Late-game defense and play-calling on the last drive.

Ugly: Offensive Line/pass protection.

[Filmstudy]

4 hours ago, rmw10 said:

Curious to get your take on Suggs so far this year.  Despite the sack numbers, he looks awfully slow out there.  You can still see the football smarts, but more often that not, he doesn't have the speed to make the play.  Do you think it's still the recovery from the Achilles or is he on a serious downward spiral?  I've been saying every week that there are good moments, but there hasn't been any improvement so far in 4 weeks.

I'm happy with the way he has played the run this season, particularly since edge setting is an area where the Ravens are thin.

I am concerned about the fact 2 of his 3 sacks have been cleanups near the sideline.  I want to see more from him in terms of pressure and have more pressure on the pocket and not outside it.

[redlobster]

I wonder if shareece would be a better safety? He is a solid tackler but gets punked often man on man

[trevorsteadman]

1 hour ago, redlobster said:

I wonder if shareece would be a better safety? He is a solid tackler but gets punked often man on man

That is not his fault that is the defensive scheme to put him up on the bigger possession receivers. This week and last week Pees' has failed to make adjustments. Robinson started going 2 weeks ago and they didn't put Smith on him. Then they put him on Crabtree. Wide receiver shouldn't be putting up 2 and 3 touchdown games going to the same side of the field. The defense needs to make adjustments. I think that final touchdown would have not been there if Weddle was still in the game. Kendrick was in that play and even though I think he is a great safety and all, coming into the game and it is one of your first snaps in the 4th quarter it is hard to acclimate to the situation and the speed of the game.

[izvoodoo]

2 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

That is not his fault that is the defensive scheme to put him up on the bigger possession receivers. This week and last week Pees' has failed to make adjustments. Robinson started going 2 weeks ago and they didn't put Smith on him. Then they put him on Crabtree. Wide receiver shouldn't be putting up 2 and 3 touchdown games going to the same side of the field. The defense needs to make adjustments. I think that final touchdown would have not been there if Weddle was still in the game. Kendrick was in that play and even though I think he is a great safety and all, coming into the game and it is one of your first snaps in the 4th quarter it is hard to acclimate to the situation and the speed of the game.

It's either Crabtree or Amari Cooper.  So either way Wright was going to have a difficult assignment.  

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, trevorsteadman said:

That is not his fault that is the defensive scheme to put him up on the bigger possession receivers. This week and last week Pees' has failed to make adjustments. Robinson started going 2 weeks ago and they didn't put Smith on him. Then they put him on Crabtree. Wide receiver shouldn't be putting up 2 and 3 touchdown games going to the same side of the field. The defense needs to make adjustments. I think that final touchdown would have not been there if Weddle was still in the game. Kendrick was in that play and even though I think he is a great safety and all, coming into the game and it is one of your first snaps in the 4th quarter it is hard to acclimate to the situation and the speed of the game.

Well and Shareece bit on a double move in zone coverage, when the only real responsibility he had was not to let a guy get over the top of him. Both he and Lewis couldn't have played that ball any worse than they did. 

There's no coverage scheme ever designed that wanted him them to do what he did, and there is no correction for that. The only correction is to have both Wright and Lewis stand next to each other on the pylon and hope Carr throws it right to them. Otherwise, making the decisions and executing like they did, it doesn't matter what Pees does.

I mean we could have him line up against Amari Cooper, who is a very similar player, but I think we all know how that ends.

[Rav'n Maniac]

1 hour ago, trevorsteadman said:

That is not his fault that is the defensive scheme to put him up on the bigger possession receivers. This week and last week Pees' has failed to make adjustments. Robinson started going 2 weeks ago and they didn't put Smith on him. Then they put him on Crabtree. Wide receiver shouldn't be putting up 2 and 3 touchdown games going to the same side of the field. The defense needs to make adjustments. I think that final touchdown would have not been there if Weddle was still in the game. Kendrick was in that play and even though I think he is a great safety and all, coming into the game and it is one of your first snaps in the 4th quarter it is hard to acclimate to the situation and the speed of the game.

Weddle was in on that play. He was the field side safety It was Webb that was out with Lewis in his spot.

[arnie_uk]

15 hours ago, Filmstudy said:

It's too few trials (7 with 5, for example) for you to get the consistent answer you want.

The chart is intended to show a few things:

--How often the Ravens rushed 3, 4, 5, 6

--How I look at ATS

--How little pressure they had in total.  26 of 35 is close to the highest pct Flacco has had from 2010-16.  Flacco has had 51% of all drop backs with ATS since 2010.

--The "failure" for Carr to deliver on expected yards for his opportunity set is as hollow as Pees claiming the Ravens defense was great in the 2nd half of 2015 based on yards alone.  I explain that in the article.

 

Flacco doesn't have ample time 1 in every 2 throws? Surely that's an awful statistic?

[BmoreBird22]

7 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

We could but Jimmy might need help too. Xavier Rhodes an is exceptional CB. Just got this from twitter on how insane he's been since returning: "When Xavier Rhodes has been targeted this season, he's allowed an NFL passer rating of 0.0. 3 for 10 for 23 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT and 1 PD." Jimmy has nothing near those kind of numbers. 
That's the luxury of a shut down CB, you can add help to Wright's side of the field. 

I wouldn't trust Jimmy one-on-one yet, he's still working his way back up, the 2014 Jimmy Smith surely, but not this one, just not yet. 

Xavier Rhodes plays the same RCB side, but from what I saw, he wasn't shadowing OBJ. Maybe he was, but I could have swore they really were fine playing Rhodes, Munnerlyn, or Newman on him and just putting Smith over the top.

[ravensnj]

10 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

We could but Jimmy might need help too. Xavier Rhodes an is exceptional CB. Just got this from twitter on how insane he's been since returning: "When Xavier Rhodes has been targeted this season, he's allowed an NFL passer rating of 0.0. 3 for 10 for 23 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT and 1 PD." Jimmy has nothing near those kind of numbers. 
That's the luxury of a shut down CB, you can add help to Wright's side of the field. 

I wouldn't trust Jimmy one-on-one yet, he's still working his way back up, the 2014 Jimmy Smith surely, but not this one, just not yet. 

Yeah, but the Vikings have a pass rush, which helps. However , when push came to shove, Rhodes dominated Beckham. Seems if you play physical you can punk him.

Edited October 5, 2016 by ravensnj

[CalvinSmoke]

Just gonna throw it out there... Zuttah played a solid game. 

[redrum52]

On 10/2/2016 at 4:56 PM, Moderator 3 said:

How is it we "won" all the stats (passing, running, TOP, 3rd down %, etc.) and lost the game?  SMH!

Turnovers and not making those yards count most the game.

[January J]

10 hours ago, CalvinSmoke said:

Just gonna throw it out there... Zuttah played a solid game. 

Compared to what were used to seeing from him maybe.

[rmcjacket23]

11 minutes ago, January J said:

Compared to what were used to seeing from him maybe.

He did get positive grades from PFF, but I haven't seen FilmStudy's review yet. My assumption is he will grade him out by far as the best game this year.

[January J]

2 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

He did get positive grades from PFF, but I haven't seen FilmStudy's review yet. My assumption is he will grade him out by far as the best game this year.

Hopefully he keeps it up then and can build on that performance.

[OUravensfan]

Zutah played a good game and still cost us 40 yards in penalties 

[PurpleCity5]

18 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Xavier Rhodes plays the same RCB side, but from what I saw, he wasn't shadowing OBJ. Maybe he was, but I could have swore they really were fine playing Rhodes, Munnerlyn, or Newman on him and just putting Smith over the top.

I did see a bit of Munnerlyn and Newman on him, but for the most part I saw Rhodes on him and he played him very well.

[PurpleCity5]

16 hours ago, ravensnj said:

Yeah, but the Vikings have a pass rush, which helps. However , when push came to shove, Rhodes dominated Beckham. Seems if you play physical you can punk him.

I did see some four man rushes but I definitely saw plenty of blitzes and the Vikings looked comfortable leaving Rhodes on 1v1 with Beckham.

[BmoreBird22]

32 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I did see a bit of Munnerlyn and Newman on him, but for the most part I saw Rhodes on him and he played him very well.

I know they rotated Harrison Smith onto him an absurdly large amount.

But as a whole, that unit is just absolutely stacked. It's not that they have a shutdown corner; they have four corners who could come in and play well at any given time and possibly the best FS in the game, easily top 2.

[Filmstudy]

20 hours ago, arnie_uk said:

Flacco doesn't have ample time 1 in every 2 throws? Surely that's an awful statistic?

The 51% has bounced in a fairly narrow range since 2010.  You are probably familiar with PFF.  My definition of ATS is more strict than what PFF defines as "under pressure", because I call a drop back "not ATS" if the QB cannot step into his throw in a 120 degree arc centered on the targeted receiver.  Whenever I review pressures with their analysts, there are a number of "proximity pressures" where a lineman is backed up into Joe's space, but doesn't touch him.  Those are pressures allowed by my system and PFF does not tag them the same way.

Please note I am not putting down PFF, merely pointing out a definitional difference.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Filmstudy

[Filmstudy]

4 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

He did get positive grades from PFF, but I haven't seen FilmStudy's review yet. My assumption is he will grade him out by far as the best game this year.

This is due out any time now, but Zuttah didn't have a good game at all as I scored it.  In fact, all 4 of the lineman other than Yanda were on the D/F border.

I gave Zuttah the maximum adjustment (.10) for the combination of the fumble he recovered and quality of competition, but his raw score was .65 adjusted to .75, which is still 2 points below passing for a center.

I did think both of the penalties could just as easily not have been called, but 2 holding penalties cost him 12 points, he missed 5 blocks, and had 2 pressures plus a QH as well.  I have all the time references for his deductions in my article so you folks with Game Pass can review along with me.

More than ever, the Ravens need Zuttah to play well while they are addressing problems elsewhere with overlapping backup personnel.

 

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, Filmstudy said:

This is due out any time now, but Zuttah didn't have a good game at all as I scored it.  In fact, all 4 of the lineman other than Yanda were on the D/F border.

I gave Zuttah the maximum adjustment (.10) for the combination of the fumble he recovered and quality of competition, but his raw score was .65 adjusted to .75, which is still 2 points below passing for a center.

I did think both of the penalties could just as easily not have been called, but 2 holding penalties cost him 12 points, he missed 5 blocks, and had 2 pressures plus a QH as well.  I have all the time references for his deductions in my article so you folks with Game Pass can review along with me.

More than ever, the Ravens need Zuttah to play well while they are addressing problems elsewhere with overlapping backup personnel.

 

So what do you think accounts for the difference between your grading and PFF grade? I believe he was graded as the 3rd best offensive player was he not?

[Filmstudy]

30 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

So what do you think accounts for the difference between your grading and PFF grade? I believe he was graded as the 3rd best offensive player was he not?

I know one element is penalties.  My charge is high and Zuttah had 2 OHs.  There are other elements like proximity pressures which come up regularly as differences.  I'm going to start with this simple statement:  It's not possible in my system to have a top grade at center any time you have 2 holding penalties.  However, the PFF scoring system uses a system of credits and debits for which it is entirely possible to overcome 2, drive-stalling holds.

They overvalue run blocking (from my perspective) when you see a single combined score.  In the NFL, the high-leverage plays are primarily passes, so I think adding together run blocking and pass blocking scores is akin to adding bananas imported from Equador to microchips imported from Japan to get a single metric of foreign trade.  

They also award an event in integer units only and to a single lineman.  I split up the charge for any event to the players I think are responsible.

I am asked to write this up virtually any time my grade disagrees from PFF.  I'm aware and the best I can do is give you a transparent set of deductions to review.

The PFF analytics people and I communicate 1-2 times per year to review specific scoring differences. We will occasionally find a QH one of us missed or a pressure to change, but the vast majority of differences are definitional.

I'll add that PFF is the ONLY source for the relative framework of OL (and other positions) quality.  They have changed the way information travels on many positions.  I like their product and highly recommend it.  However, their service was a lot more valuable when the count statistics were available in the $26.99 annual package.  They now charge $1,500 annually for that package. 

[Worthy]

The UGLY is the fact in a TIE BREAKER at the end of the year -- this loss may very well hurt us!

Only 6 Teams in -- 

Denver
Patriots
Texans (they could go 9-7 and probably win their division)

So you're looking at 4 teams fighting for 3 spots.  

Steelers
Ravens
Oakland
Bengals

Let's say the NFL North beats each other up -- we could have 4 -- 10-6 or 11-5 teams -- and Oakland has the tiebreaker over us!

Edited October 5, 2016 by Worthy

[rmcjacket23]

32 minutes ago, Filmstudy said:

I know one element is penalties.  My charge is high and Zuttah had 2 OHs.  There are other elements like proximity pressures which come up regularly as differences.  I'm going to start with this simple statement:  It's not possible in my system to have a top grade at center any time you have 2 holding penalties.  However, the PFF scoring system uses a system of credits and debits for which it is entirely possible to overcome 2, drive-stalling holds.

They overvalue run blocking (from my perspective) when you see a single combined score.  In the NFL, the high-leverage plays are primarily passes, so I think adding together run blocking and pass blocking scores is akin to adding bananas imported from Equador to microchips imported from Japan to get a single metric of foreign trade.  

They also award an event in integer units only and to a single lineman.  I split up the charge for any event to the players I think are responsible.

I am asked to write this up virtually any time my grade disagrees from PFF.  I'm aware and the best I can do is give you a transparent set of deductions to review.

The PFF analytics people and I communicate 1-2 times per year to review specific scoring differences. We will occasionally find a QH one of us missed or a pressure to change, but the vast majority of differences are definitional.

I'll add that PFF is the ONLY source for the relative framework of OL (and other positions) quality.  They have changed the way information travels on many positions.  I like their product and highly recommend it.  However, their service was a lot more valuable when the count statistics were available in the $26.99 annual package.  They now charge $1,500 annually for that package. 

Thanks for the clarification.

[PurpleCity5]

3 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I know they rotated Harrison Smith onto him an absurdly large amount.

But as a whole, that unit is just absolutely stacked. It's not that they have a shutdown corner; they have four corners who could come in and play well at any given time and possibly the best FS in the game, easily top 2.

I think Rhodes might become a shut down CB but that's just my opinion. He was snubbed badly by the Pro Bowl before. Zimmer did say that he assigned Rhodes on Beckham but I definitely saw Smith(Who is a beast) rotating on him plenty as well. 

Edited October 5, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I think Rhodes might become a shut down CB but that's just my opinion. He was snubbed badly by the Pro Bowl before. Zimmer did say that he assigned Rhodes on Beckham but I definitely saw Smith(Who is a beast) rotating on him plenty as well. 

I juse think even if they didn't have Rhodes, they'd be fine.

I talked about this in the "Secondary" thread, but Zimmer in Cinci and in Minnesota has loaded up on defensive backs heavily to the point that he is five deep and has no worries if one goes down or leaves.

The Ravens are one deep and have huge concerns if one goes down.