The Good, Bad and UGLY week 4 against the Raiders

[rmcjacket23]

33 minutes ago, Filmstudy said:

Most of the issues I have with this game were schematic and coaching, but my thoughts are in this article:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/10/03/filmstudy/ravens-derek-carr-no-pressure/

To give you some highlights:

1.  The Ravens OL selection was atrocious and they did not correct it in game.  I can't understand why Lewis was active and did not play.  The Ravens didn't run any unbalanced schemes or have other complexities that would have been difficult for him whether at guard or tackle.

2.  The pass rush turned in the worst performance in years.  26 of 35 drop backs had Ample Time and Space (ATS) and there isn't any coverage scheme which can mask that.

3.  There were 3 coaching oddities.  I agree with going for 2 (Q3, 2:46).  Like everyone else, I would not have accepted the UR penalty.  But inexcusably, the Ravens had a snap with only 9 defenders on the field.  I'll offer more details after I study the coaches video.  They have had 10 defenders a handful of times, but I searched my database, which extends back to the beginning of 1999, and there were no other snaps with 9 defenders.

4.  The Ravens played their first dime and quarter snaps of the season.  The results were good (offensive hold, incomplete), but they had just 1 snap of each.

5.  Both of the TD passes that beat Shareece Wright were perfectly thrown.  There is no defending that fade.  The game-winning TD saw Wright beaten on a double move, but Kendrick Lewis (in for Webb) took a terrible angle to the play and could not help.  Wright got juked out of his shoes on the play, but the ball was dropped right in the bucket and probably would have been a TD anyway.  Time in the pocket was a big issue as was the lack of a 6th DB on the final drive.

 

Didn't John say after the game that Lewis was active just as an "emergency" and that he didn't feel he was ready enough to be out there?

I mean I agree in theory that if you have a player who you have no intention of using for health reasons that they should be inactive, but we were already down one tackle, so I sort of understand that decision.

Also, what impact do you think the Raiders Oline had on our failed pass rush? Seems to may they have one of the if not the best Oline in football right now. A lot of money spent up front and they're getting dividends from that.

Edited October 3, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[rmw10]

3 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Didn't John say after the game that Lewis was active just as an "emergency" and that he didn't feel he was ready enough to be out there?

I mean I agree in theory that if you have a player who you have no intention of using for health reasons that they should be inactive, but we were already down one tackle, so I sort of understand that decision.

Also, what impact do you think the Raiders Oline had on our failed pass rush? Seems to may they have one of the if not the best Oline in football right now. A lot of money spent up front and they're getting dividends from that.

Yep.  I did see Lewis run out there for one ST/FG snap (in what looked like some confusion) but that was it.  We needed a 7th OL though so I'm sure Urschel was getting the call first if a need arose, and Lewis was purely active in case it got to a true emergency situation.

[rmw10]

And this was a big factor for Oakland.  King was key in the field position game.

 

[Militant X 1]

9 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

carr throws a perfect fade..

 

flacco doesnt have his touch on such passes. 

Carr is a smooth QB.

[izvoodoo]

3 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

And this was a big factor for Oakland.  King was key in the field position game.

 

Only time I've ever thought "Man this Punter is killing us"

[Filmstudy]

31 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

For the first touchdown, I don't think Wright could have gotten a hand on the ball, but he seemed to be reading the route as a break to the inside and got stuck flat footed as Crabtree effortlessly moved past him. He also didn't even really seem to try to jam him or mess up the timing at all, possibly fearing he might hold on a break to the inside. I think with a little physicality there, he might have thrown off Crabtree's timing a little bit.

And correct me if I'm wrong (I only had the broadcast, so I'm not entirely sure on this one without seeing the All-22), but that second touchdown appeared like it was a Cover 3. Both Jimmy and Wright were lined up off about six yards and bailed instantly back. Also, unless I'm missing Webb, I thought I saw Lewis as the only safety back there, covering the middle thirds. If it was indeed Cover 3 like I think, then Wright shouldn't be biting on a double move like that.

I agree, physicality and pass rush are the ways to beat the fade, kinda like Simith on Crabtree vs. the 49ers in SB XLVII.

Webb was off the field for what I assume was concussion protocol from the previous play.  So yes, Lewis was the safety on that side.  He reacted late and took a shallow angle to the goal line rather than a path to the back of the end zone..  

[Filmstudy]

OK, here are the details now posted on the play with 9 men on defense.  I wanted to wait for the top view to see what happened on the sideline, but I think this is about 95% of the information I'll be able to provide when the coaches video becomes available.

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/10/03/filmstudy/9-men-field/

[Moderator 3]

I get that our offense sucked and we didn't run enough or throw enough deep balls.  I get that our o-line was awful, topped only by the play calling.  Can someone please explain to me how we still managed to score 27 points?  And, by the way, tell me how many you think we're good for if we clean up the drive killers (penalties, dropped passes, etc.).

[BmoreBird22]

10 minutes ago, Filmstudy said:

I agree, physicality and pass rush are the ways to beat the fade, kinda like Simith on Crabtree vs. the 49ers in SB XLVII.

Webb was off the field for what I assume was concussion protocol from the previous play.  So yes, Lewis was the safety on that side.  He reacted late and took a shallow angle to the goal line rather than a path to the back of the end zone..  

I am in agreement that Wright wasn't as bad as many are making him out to be (I didn't notice anything glaring other than those two touchdowns) but I think both were preventable, or at least contestable had he been physical on the first and just stayed over the top on the second.

At this point, I just really worry when the Ravens get put into a red zone situation

[Filmstudy]

33 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Yep.  I did see Lewis run out there for one ST/FG snap (in what looked like some confusion) but that was it.  We needed a 7th OL though so I'm sure Urschel was getting the call first if a need arose, and Lewis was purely active in case it got to a true emergency situation.

Lewis played 3 ST snaps.

I think your understanding/reporting of the 7 linemen is correct.  And it's honestly too much of a risk to enter an NFL game with 6.5 linemen.  I guess we might have seen Crocket Gillmore at RT or perhaps a DL at guard had the need emerged.  An intriguing possibility would be Brett Urban at Tackle.  He has the size, and is underutilized on defense, but he would have had to relearn how to play without holding. 

[OUravensfan]

1 hour ago, Filmstudy said:

Yup.  It's unreal, but it happened.  Maureen and I record the members of the secondary at the game, since it's easier to get there than from the broadcast when we get home.  To do that, we watch who is coming on and off.  If I'm recalling correctly, we saw 2 players start to come off, then turn and run off.  My guess is it was a case of a botched/changed package call they failed to get corrected in time and they also failed to call a timeout.

No one in the media, including the announcers picked up on this, so I want to detail the play before I tell you exactly when it occurred.  I promise an update to the defensive article when I do it.

Understood, good find 

[rmw10]

3 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I am in agreement that Wright wasn't as bad as many are making him out to be (I didn't notice anything glaring other than those two touchdowns) but I think both were preventable, or at least contestable had he been physical on the first and just stayed over the top on the second.

At this point, I just really worry when the Ravens get put into a red zone situation

Yeah I'm much less concerned with the fade as that was a perfect throw.  I'm more concerned about the one that ended up being the winner as Wright's responsibility is to not let the guy behind him and he bit on such a simple move.

[OUravensfan]

48 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

carr throws a perfect fade..

 

flacco doesnt have his touch on such passes. 

He also doesn't have the blocking or WRs Carr has

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, Filmstudy said:

Lewis played 3 ST snaps.

I think your understanding/reporting of the 7 linemen is correct.  And it's honestly too much of a risk to enter an NFL game with 6.5 linemen.  I guess we might have seen Crocket Gillmore at RT or perhaps a DL at guard had the need emerged.  An intriguing possibility would be Brett Urban at Tackle.  He has the size, and is underutilized on defense, but he would have had to relearn how to play without holding. 

Makes sense.  I got from Harbaugh that the concern was preparation and not any risk of re-injury.  Don't need too much prep for ST so it makes sense that he was out there, no matter how small the role might have been.

[BmoreBird22]

3 minutes ago, Filmstudy said:

Lewis played 3 ST snaps.

I think your understanding/reporting of the 7 linemen is correct.  And it's honestly too much of a risk to enter an NFL game with 6.5 linemen.  I guess we might have seen Crocket Gillmore at RT or perhaps a DL at guard had the need emerged.  An intriguing possibility would be Brett Urban at Tackle.  He has the size, and is underutilized on defense, but he would have had to relearn how to play without holding. 

I was wondering about this. I figured they might throw Gilmore out there, but I wasn't sure. Has that ever had to happen to a team?

[OUravensfan]

8 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

I get that our offense sucked and we didn't run enough or throw enough deep balls.  I get that our o-line was awful, topped only by the play calling.  Can someone please explain to me how we still managed to score 27 points?  And, by the way, tell me how many you think we're good for if we clean up the drive killers (penalties, dropped passes, etc.).

Very true. Is that encouraging? Idk

[Edgar]

1 hour ago, OUravensfan said:

See Kyle Boller for what that looks like. He always gives his WR a chance to make a play 

He struggles with accuracy when guys are open deep.

I'm not sure he " always" gives guys a chance.  Those are often jump balls with little touch 

[rmw10]

20 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I was wondering about this. I figured they might throw Gilmore out there, but I wasn't sure. Has that ever had to happen to a team?

Levine Toilolo played RT for the Falcons a couple of years back.

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, rmw10 said:

Levine Toilolo played RT for the Falcons a couple of years back.

How'd it go over?

[rmw10]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

How'd it go over?

Not well at all lol

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

Not well at all lol

Yeah, I'd be quite worried if Gilmore were in there as a blocker. I think he's pretty overrated around here as a blocker, so that'd be a point where you just play Mallett.

[rmw10]

6 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Yeah, I'd be quite worried if Gilmore were in there as a blocker. I think he's pretty overrated around here as a blocker, so that'd be a point where you just play Mallett.

If this year is any indication, Maxx is our best blocker.  He's been laying people out this year.

[football maniac]

Wow, you all really now how to bash on players. 

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, rmw10 said:

If this year is any indication, Maxx is our best blocker.  He's been laying people out this year.

I figured this was going to happen once he got into an NFL weight room. He was already really solid with his technique in college. Just needed to tone up.

[allblackraven]

Anybody heard explanation for Judon being inactive for the Raiders game? Through first three games he seemed to be our most disruptive edge rusher, yet we opt to sit him. It kind of showed by the amount of pressure we put on Carr - close to nothing.

[Filmstudy]

 

33 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I was wondering about this. I figured they might throw Gilmore out there, but I wasn't sure. Has that ever had to happen to a team?

A few years back, the Ravens were prepared to have Matt Katula take over at RT had they had 1 more injury, but I don't recall it ever happening to the Ravens.  They did have an oddball collection of skill-position payers in at OL for the final play at Atlanta in 2010, but that was for a lateral play.  The video is still available on Gampe Pass.

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, allblackraven said:

Anybody heard explanation for Judon being inactive for the Raiders game? Through first three games he seemed to be our most disruptive edge rusher, yet we opt to sit him. It kind of showed by the amount of pressure we put on Carr - close to nothing.

Wasn't a big ST player according to the snap counts.  Someone had to sit and he happened to be the one.

[Filmstudy]

Just now, rmw10 said:

Wasn't a big ST player according to the snap counts.  Someone had to sit and he happened to be the one.

That's how I saw it.  Not having him against Alexander really hurt.

[usmccharles]

30 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I figured this was going to happen once he got into an NFL weight room. He was already really solid with his technique in college. Just needed to tone up.

Yea, but he needs to get his body fat % down and increase his neck size by eating more peanutbutter, then he will be an alpha male

[Rav'n Maniac]

28 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Anybody heard explanation for Judon being inactive for the Raiders game? Through first three games he seemed to be our most disruptive edge rusher, yet we opt to sit him. It kind of showed by the amount of pressure we put on Carr - close to nothing.

Not sure why Judon was inactive, but I can tell you ZDS did absolutely nothing all game.