[News] Late For Work 9/27: Should Ravens Make Changes With These Three Veterans?

[rmcjacket23]

6 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

Where's Juice?  That's the guy... 

I mean, you could put him on the field more, but you're taking a receiver or TE off the field by doing so and if teams see that he's just coming on the field to catch passes, it will be easy to defend.

He does well as a pass catcher in non-obvious passing situations where he actually comes out of the backfield. 

Also is one less blocker for protection, so not ideal either.

[bioLarzen]

  15 minutes ago, Ronan Freitas said:

Totally agree, in fact, if you look at the touchdown plays, there isn't much to do there, the first one was a break that's almost impossible to cover, and the second was just a perfect thrown ball

Ahhhh, the back-shoulder fade, almost impossible to defend without a penalty... 

 

If it was, it would be all we'd see played.

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, bioLarzen said:

If it was, it would be all we'd see played.

I think he means impossible to defend when executed properly, which I agree with.

Difficult throw and play to execute, but when done, not really much the defense can do.

[Ravenshine]

Is it the RBs fault? Clearly they are not effectively executing the run plays as a whole offensive line should. That's only partially the RBs fault, the run game is actually more about O synchronization than it is ever going to be about any individual player.

[The Mom Gene]

6 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I mean, you could put him on the field more, but you're taking a receiver or TE off the field by doing so and if teams see that he's just coming on the field to catch passes, it will be easy to defend.

He does well as a pass catcher in non-obvious passing situations where he actually comes out of the backfield. 

Also is one less blocker for protection, so not ideal either.

There was a time when we used both Vonte Leach and Juice to lead the RB's.  So that you aren't actually doing that.  But correct, we didn't have Wallace, Perriman, Smith, Pitta, Aiken, Moore.....  So yeah, we have many more weapons....

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

There was a time when we used both Vonte Leach and Juice to lead the RB's.  So that you aren't actually doing that.  But correct, we didn't have Wallace, Perriman, Smith, Pitta, Aiken, Moore.....  So yeah, we have many more weapons....

Yes, and we don't have two fullbacks either.

We've got like 10 mouths that fans want to see fed on offense, and only one football. Getting Juice more touches would seem to be extremely low on the priority list.

[thegooddoc456]

It's interesting, isn't it, that when Elam dared the audacity to call Megatron "old", he got asll the heat from the complete NFL-scene - but now, when Ramsey does the same to Steve Smith, there is a debate? Even though Elam was much less harsh, itr was just this one remark, while Ramsey was obviously trying to be disrespectful?

Yeah, but Ramsey's comments came in the aftermath of Smith coming at him after the game. Smith, for all his likability can be very brash and confrontational, and I'm not shocked that anyone who feels disrespected by him would try to disrespect him in return.

[The Mom Gene]

1 minute ago, thegooddoc456 said:

Yeah, but Ramsey's comments came in the aftermath of Smith coming at him after the game. Smith, for all his likability can be very brash and confrontational, and I'm not shocked that anyone who feels disrespected by him would try to disrespect him in return.

Incorrect.....  The comments came after Ramsey speared Smith in the back during a scrum on the field.  I was there.  Ramsey went after Smith and said "I got you"...  Steve went back at him then and said "I'll see you after the game".  It started way before that.  Ramsey needs to be careful.  This isn't the first time either...  when you're on a team that is 0-3....  just sayin.  He didn't shut Smith down either.  Watch the video of Steve's 23 yard catch and run.

[thegooddoc456]

  9 minutes ago, thegooddoc456 said:

Yeah, but Ramsey's comments came in the aftermath of Smith coming at him after the game. Smith, for all his likability can be very brash and confrontational, and I'm not shocked that anyone who feels disrespected by him would try to disrespect him in return.

Incorrect.....  The comments came after Ramsey speared Smith in the back during a scrum on the field.  I was there.  Ramsey went after Smith and said "I got you"...  Steve went back at him then and said "I'll see you after the game".  It started way before that.  Ramsey needs to be careful.  This isn't the first time either...  when you're on a team that is 0-3....  just sayin.  He didn't shut Smith down either.  Watch the video of Steve's 23 yard catch and run.

Lol this isn't Smith's first dust up, and won't be the last. Smith jumped into the scrum and got hit....like happens in a scrum. Smith was defending his teammate and Ramsey was defending his. I'm not impressed that he went looking for Ramsey after the game, and fortunately Ramsey did not react aggressively or we could be looking at a suspension of one of our best players right now.

[The Mom Gene]

2 minutes ago, thegooddoc456 said:

Lol this isn't Smith's first dust up, and won't be the last. Smith jumped into the scrum and got hit....like happens in a scrum. Smith was defending his teammate and Ramsey was defending his. I'm not impressed that he went looking for Ramsey after the game, and fortunately Ramsey did not react aggressively or we could be looking at a suspension of one of our best players right now.

No, Ramsey chose to whoose out and do so in the locker room with the media...  But hey...  He is what he is....  and he's not in college anymore.  Young man has a lot of learning to do.

[ravensnj]

It's clearly time for West to be handed the ball 20 times a game.

[Bat-mite]

47 minutes ago, bioLarzen said:

It's interesting, isn't it, that when Elam dared the audacity to call Megatron "old", he got asll the heat from the complete NFL-scene - but now, when Ramsey does the same to Steve Smith, there is a debate? Even though Elam was much less harsh, itr was just this one remark, while Ramsey was obviously trying to be disrespectful?

It is, indeed.  But I think it's because people generally hate the Ravens.  We stole Cleveland's team, then we had that killer Ray Lewis, then we had that junkie Jamal Lewis, then we had that wife beater Ray Rice.  When I've been in other parts of the country, I can't count the number of times I've heard one of those complaints.

[Bat-mite]

31 minutes ago, Ravenshine said:

Is it the RBs fault? Clearly they are not effectively executing the run plays as a whole offensive line should. That's only partially the RBs fault, the run game is actually more about O synchronization than it is ever going to be about any individual player.

Absolutely true, but Forsett is being chased down by big defensive lineman.  It's one thing to not get open; it's another to get open and then have a guy who outweighs you by fifty pounds run you down.

[Fastynart]

How can anyone with a brain bigger than a turnip blame Forsett? The offensive line is doing nothing to open holes or even give the RB room to make it to the line of scrimmage before someone is on his back. We have seen this same crap for three games now and nothing changes. Get the blocking working and Forsett will be just fine.

[fusuymada]

In the running game, there is always an expectation that everyone can be blocked but one guy and it is the responsibility of the back to make that one person miss. Several ltimes Forsett was in a position to break a run if he just made that first guy miss and he failed. West, however, has been far more successful. My thoughts on the RBs, you can teach West to block, Forsett can;t change the way he runs. Time to make a change. I have been saying since preseason that Urschel showed more last year than Zuttah has shown since he has been here. I do not agree with Harbaugh that you should defer to the vet and give them a chance, I say play your best players. Urschel is clearly a better player. It is not unthinkable that Wright could make 11 tackles and suck in coverage. Part of a cornerback logging that many tackles is because he allowed a lot of catches in front of him. Yes he was good in the run game for a week, but there are 15 more weeks of football. Time to make a change there as well. You know, you can always put these guys back in, but I can't see wasting talent on the bench if there is a CHANCE they can improve the team.

[Bleed purple20]

as buck says, i like our guys we are 3 and 0 not 0 and 3 so i feel good right now. just take a look at our record this time last year.in stead of winning close games we lost them, no need to worry at all.

[FloridalovesRavens]

  1 hour ago, bioLarzen said:

It's interesting, isn't it, that when Elam dared the audacity to call Megatron "old", he got asll the heat from the complete NFL-scene - but now, when Ramsey does the same to Steve Smith, there is a debate? Even though Elam was much less harsh, itr was just this one remark, while Ramsey was obviously trying to be disrespectful?

It is, indeed.  But I think it's because people generally hate the Ravens.  We stole Cleveland's team, then we had that killer Ray Lewis, then we had that junkie Jamal Lewis, then we had that wife beater Ray Rice.  When I've been in other parts of the country, I can't count the number of times I've heard one of those complaints.

You are so right. Seems that some team fans (Cowboys, Vikings, Bengals) forgive their child beaters and mother beaters and junkies but the Ravens can not get any respect.

[steelcityraven]

When we drafted Correa- The book on his was that he is a raw player with a relentless motor. We knew when we drafted him that he was going to take some time to fully develop. We knew that he was also a tweener... bc another knock on him was that he lacked ideal size and we passed on Noah Spence, Reggie Ragland and others bc of 2 reason. 1. His motor... he will play like a Raven for 60 minutes 2. for his character. He would not be an issue that say a Spence could have been).

The versatility that Correa could provide (ability to play inside or outside) made him a valuable asset to us. While we have the luxury to be a little patient with him bc we have Elvis and Sizzle in front of him on the outside / and CJ and ZOrr playing at a high level on the inside. This allows us to bring him along slowing (good for him) and to deploy him (when ready) in multiple fashions (giving opposing offenses fits).

I think we as Raven fans push the panic button a little bc of the Arthur Brown debacle at LB (another 2nd round pick who didn't come in and light it up) and bc of a rich draft history at the LB position where we have found people like Ray Lewis, Peter Boulware, Jamie Shaper, CJ Mosley and more who can right in and looked like a star.

The combination of past success and recent failure at the same position leaves fans a little anxious when a high level LB (or WR) doesn't come in and perform right away.

"When better is expected - good is no longer good enough"
I think we have the luxury to bring him a long at his own pace. I think KC will be great for us... just not great for us this year. (but a little production would be great)!

[steelcityraven]

You can add the Sergio Kindle issue into our knee jerk reaction at LB also!

[The Greek]

you would think if jensen and urschel were better options at center than one of them would have beaten zuttah out. zuttah is either not 100% or he has begun the process of regressing being in his 9th year. maybe ozzie looks to make a trade for a center if the 2 youngsters are not an upgrade. i would see what allen can do this week with 10-15 touches. offense cannot continue to go into long periods of droughts but 3-0 feels great and i would like to stay on top of the division so hopefully trestman and castillo can figure this running game and inconsistent play out

[steelcityraven]

I think we are under estimating what KO meant to the OL. That being said... we should be running the ball better then we have been. I think ALewis being out with a concussion and placing Urschel at G will show improvement. Urschel knows the system and will make both Zuttah and Stanley's job a little easier. A Lewis looks like a great addition down the road and he has all of the tools and physicality but he isn't there yet mentally. Urschel will be an upgrade this week and we will see it in our run game!

[steelcityraven]

Would love to see Perriman start to get more involved in the offense - along with Maxx - I know there are only so many plays and hard to spread the ball around but I would love to see the ball in the hands of our most dangerous playmakers a little more.

[billiejean]

22 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

There's one more veteran who should be dioscussed: Yanda. Not as a possible candidate for removing from the lineup of course - he's still one of the best guard in the league! - but it's impossible not to note how he's nowhere near the high standard performance we've got to expect of him. Atypical penalties, missed tackles...

Is he playing through an injury?

i am not sure if this means anything to you but, Yanda has had the highest PFF grade of all right tackles in the league for EACH of the first three games. I know a lot of people in these forums think that PFF is bull but IMO its a pretty good way to evaluate players. This is especially true with the OL. There is a link below that describes how they come up with those grades. There are certainly flaws to the system but there is a lot of data that goes into those numbers. That said I do agree that Yanda has stood out during the this season than others. I think a big factor to that may be the penalties.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/how-we-grade/

[billiejean]

  2 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

There's one more veteran who should be dioscussed: Yanda. Not as a possible candidate for removing from the lineup of course - he's still one of the best guard in the league! - but it's impossible not to note how he's nowhere near the high standard performance we've got to expect of him. Atypical penalties, missed tackles...

Is he playing through an injury?

I can't believe the penalties and such with Yanda.  You're correct.  What's going on?

He has been the highest rated RG in each of the first three games this year.

[dirtybird66]

in the NFL. you need to be ahead of the curb when you see a weakness or other teams will and pick on that weakness,it's a no brainer to pull ZUTAH to me.

[20306cab]

I gotta say, I like Young and Canady. Can't complain too much about Wright and Smith. The D has been awesome. The DL has been great. The offense has been well, offensive. I don't think Zuttah has been playing that bad. I watch. I think Flacco and Forsett have been the worst performers so far. Hey, it's the truth. Let's hope ALL improve!

[20306cab]

  3 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

It's interesting, isn't it, that when Elam dared the audacity to call Megatron "old", he got asll the heat from the complete NFL-scene - but now, when Ramsey does the same to Steve Smith, there is a debate? Even though Elam was much less harsh, itr was just this one remark, while Ramsey was obviously trying to be disrespectful?

It is, indeed.  But I think it's because people generally hate the Ravens.  We stole Cleveland's team, then we had that killer Ray Lewis, then we had that junkie Jamal Lewis, then we had that wife beater Ray Rice.  When I've been in other parts of the country, I can't count the number of times I've heard one of those complaints.

Yea, that's right. Everybody hates the Ravens. All over the country. Seems to me, you're the only one on this site bringing all this Old News up!

[Ravenshine]

"If you ask Pro Football Focus (PFF), West is deserving of more playing time after out-grading Forsett in the Jaguars matchup."

Sure, the last game we played West stood out vs Forsett...but their 3 game average is still really close:West 33ATT and 119 yards @ 3.6 A and Forsett 31 ATT and 98 yards @ 3.2 A...so last game Forsett didn't do so well which no doubt affected his overall average, but for the first 2 previous games he's stayed ON pace with West (rather than being a huge trailer by comparison) ...Let's see how he does in this game coming up. I hope both he and West do well, it will mean our running game is getting on track.

As for making the other guy miss...this is based on the Jag game, which was not Forsett's best game. And as Ray Lewis says lol, 'some games you make lots of mistakes and next game you do everything right' ?

[757RavensFan]

2 hours ago, fusuymada said:

In the running game, there is always an expectation that everyone can be blocked but one guy and it is the responsibility of the back to make that one person miss. Several ltimes Forsett was in a position to break a run if he just made that first guy miss and he failed. West, however, has been far more successful. My thoughts on the RBs, you can teach West to block, Forsett can;t change the way he runs. Time to make a change. I have been saying since preseason that Urschel showed more last year than Zuttah has shown since he has been here. I do not agree with Harbaugh that you should defer to the vet and give them a chance, I say play your best players. Urschel is clearly a better player. It is not unthinkable that Wright could make 11 tackles and suck in coverage. Part of a cornerback logging that many tackles is because he allowed a lot of catches in front of him. Yes he was good in the run game for a week, but there are 15 more weeks of football. Time to make a change there as well. You know, you can always put these guys back in, but I can't see wasting talent on the bench if there is a CHANCE they can improve the team.

Sorry, I'm gonna have to disagree w/ you on this one.  Harbs has stated NUMEROUS times that the best five guys will play on the O-Line.  If Urschel WAS clearly the better player he would be out there.  What competent coach is going to have a better player inactive on game days? 

[757RavensFan]

56 minutes ago, billiejean said:

He has been the highest rated RG in each of the first three games this year.

That doesn't negate the fact that at least 2 of his penalties were drive killers!