Was wright benched?

[redrum52]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Depends on what the concept and scheme for that play is. Fans usually take the easy approach with their analysis... they see a receiver catch a pass in an area where Wright was, and therefore the completion is on him. Obviously, that could be true or completely false, and fans rarely know the difference.

From what I've seen, he's had 1 very good game (Buffalo), one very poor game (Cleveland), and one pretty average game (Jacksonville). So he's playing about what everybody thinks he should be playing, since he's paid and was expected to be an average corner.

At the end of the day, the "big plays" are only having so much impact on the game, given that we're allowing 15 PPG on defense. So the defense as a total unit is largely doing a good job against "big plays". I don't really recall any big plays yesterday or in the Buffalo game, so I think we are primarily focused on the Cleveland game from that perspective.

 

To add to this, didn't the Ravens turn the ball over 3 times?  Wasn't one basically in the redzone as well, right after a defensive stop?  Each time the ball was given to the Jags, it was with prime field position.  Here's a question to everyone?  How many big plays is he actually giving up?

 

 

I agree with you as well about his good game, bad game and average.  This last game might not even be as bad as an average, if you actually put everything in context.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, redrum52 said:

To add to this, didn't the Ravens turn the ball over 3 times?  Wasn't one basically in the redzone as well, right after a defensive stop?  Each time the ball was given to the Jags, it was with prime field position.  Here's a question to everyone?  How many big plays is he actually giving up?

 

 

I agree with you as well about his good game, bad game and average.  This last game might not even be as bad as an average, if you actually put everything in context.

The idea of "big plays" is inherently subjective, so I'm not sure there's a good answer for this.

Their are analysis-type websites that consider anything over 25 yards on a pass play to be a "big play", and 10 yards on a run play. So take that for what its worth.

[terps85]

1 hour ago, Edug27 said:

So Wright is excused from giving up big plays on a consistent basis to all wideouts who are starters, first rd picks, or deemed 'very talented'? Its football man. Offenses will design plays to cause matchup problems with Wright. You can't hide him all game. Jimmy is not Revis. What happens when the Jets come with Decker and Marshall? Or the Raiders come to town with a 6'2 Crabtree as the #2 receiver? 

Wright isn't Revis either, so how can you expect him to shutout the guy he's covering? He hasn't been bad at all. Robinson is a top 10 receiver, there's no way Jimmy shouldn't have been shadowing him. So you're asking what happens when a team with 2 good receivers plays the Ravens? Are you not aware that the Jags have a top 5 receiving duo in the league? 

[jboy19]

I'm generally against shadowing receivers, I prefer to have corners get comfortable on one side of the field than have them switching responsibilities on a regular basis. Yeah Wright's had rough games against a couple receivers but realistically it's not like Jimmy Smith is a shut-down corner who can negate an Allen Robinson, AB, Green or anybody like that. I think since a lot of Wright's problems seem to be from mental errors, having him switch sides regularly would likely exacerbate those errors. I think it'd be a better idea to get him some safety help and avoid 1on1 matchups against top talent. 

[Edug27]

44 minutes ago, terps85 said:

Wright isn't Revis either, so how can you expect him to shutout the guy he's covering? He hasn't been bad at all. Robinson is a top 10 receiver, there's no way Jimmy shouldn't have been shadowing him. So you're asking what happens when a team with 2 good receivers plays the Ravens? Are you not aware that the Jags have a top 5 receiving duo in the league? 

I'm very aware. And that top 5 duo scored 2 TD's on Wright. You can switch a player off of Wright, but he still has to deal with the other one in front of him. Not entirely sure your point. No one is expecting Wright to shut down anyone. Because he can't... Not many Corners can. But I consider a TD to be a big play.... whether its a 40 yard deep ball, or a 5 yard route. So far during his time in purple, he's been a player known to give up the big play fairly easily. Just my opinion.

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, Edug27 said:

I'm very aware. And that top 5 duo scored 2 TD's on Wright. You can switch a player off of Wright, but he still has to deal with the other one in front of him. Not entirely sure your point. No one is expecting Wright to shut down anyone. Because he can't... Not many Corners can. But I consider a TD to be a big play.... whether its a 40 yard deep ball, or a 5 yard route. So far during his time in purple, he's been a player known to give up the big play fairly easily. Just my opinion.

And there's the difference... I certainly don't think giving up a 5 yard TD pass to be a "big play" in terms of emphasis on an individual player. And I don't know many, if any, people who think that's the case either.

Getting in the red zone shrinks the field entirely, and oftentimes, it completely negates some of the positive attributes a corner has. Frankly, you see a lot of teams won't even play single man coverage that deep in the red zone. All you'll see is corners on the outside and the rest of the defense flooding the passing lanes. Plus, you know there's basically no safety help on the outside when you're in the red zone, because its a big detriment to the defense to do that.

So yes, if you give me Allen Robinson or any other high quality WR against any corner in the NFL in the red zone, its a mismatch in favor of the offense. 

[reed20]

12 hours ago, trevorsteadman said:

This needs to go guys... Wright was only burned because he was put against Allen Robinson by himself several times in the 2nd and 3rd quarter. In the 4th the Ravens were smart and let Jimmy Smith cover Robinson and that is why you never heard from Robinson again really the entire game. The announcers even pointed it out. 

Wright is a solid #2 cornerback but the coaching staff set him up to fail multiple times. He should never be on the #1 receiver. He is pretty lock down on the #2 guy for the most part the last two seasons though. 

Well next week we have Cooper and Crabtree and I don't like Wright against either one..

 

I will admit though that he got beat some of those plays due to a lack of pass rush that Dumervil can bring

[Edug27]

58 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well, me personally, I don't really put too much stock in "TDs allowed" when it comes to corners, mostly because we know historically they're extremely fluky and not a strong indication of performance. Its like using TDs to identify whether a WR is good... it doesn't work, because there's massive swings annually among the best WRs in the league as to how many TDs they catch.

Its kind of tough to argue the "big play" aspect based on yesterdays game, considering he really didn't give up any. A 3 yard TD on a double cut isn't a "big play" in terms of what I'd expect my corners to be giving up.

When the best WR on their team and one of the better in the league goes 7 for 57 on 11 targets (that's like 8 yards a catch), I'm not that concerned. Would I have liked if two of those catches weren't TDs? Sure, that would have been great. 

He gave up big plays against Cleveland. I didn't see anything yesterday that I was severely disappointed about, nor did I in Buffalo. For me, Wright is playing right about at the level everybody should expecting him to play it. When a player is meeting my expectations, I'm not going to complain about them.

But that's just me.

I hear you. I just disagree. There are a ton of stats you can go by for every position to paint any story you'd like. With every player, you examine their strengths, as well as areas of concern. For example, some QB's might not throw a ton of picks, but they do during key moments in the game. Some RB's might not get the most yards, but they're known to break off the big runs and get the tough yards. When you look at Wright, it's less about stats and the amount of catches he allows, and more about the amount of big plays he's apart of. And I guess 'big plays' is where we differ and that's cool.. I consider allowing your man to catch a ball that leads to points on the scoreboard a big play. Especially when it changes momentum of the game. When its 3rd and 10 and you give up a 31 yd touchdown.... Same as being up 16-7 in the 3rd and giving up a redzone TD to cut the lead to 2. All players have flaws, it's not the end of the world to point some of them out. It's why the Pats are good. Belicheck's focus is eliminating the big plays. He doesn't trot out a bunch of Deion's in the secondary. 

I don't really buy the whole "he gets average money so we expect him to be average" theory. That just sounds.... eh, I don't even know what to call that. 

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, Edug27 said:

I hear you. I just disagree. There are a ton of stats you can go by for every position to paint any story you'd like. With every player, you examine their strengths, as well as areas of concern. For example, some QB's might not throw a ton of picks, but they do during key moments in the game. Some RB's might not get the most yards, but they're known to break off the big runs and get the tough yards. When you look at Wright, it's less about stats and the amount of catches he allows, and more about the amount of big plays he's apart of. And I guess 'big plays' is where we differ and that's cool.. I consider allowing your man to catch a ball that leads to points on the scoreboard a big play. Especially when it changes momentum of the game. When its 3rd and 10 and you give up a 31 yd touchdown.... Same as being up 16-7 in the 3rd and giving up a redzone TD to cut the lead to 2. All players have flaws, it's not the end of the world to point some of them out. It's why the Pats are good. Belicheck's focus is eliminating the big plays. He doesn't trot out a bunch of Deion's in the secondary. 

I don't really buy the whole "he gets average money so we expect him to be average" theory. That just sounds.... eh, I don't even know what to call that. 

1. Don't get the Belichick reference, because Belichick's teams allow a lot of TDs just like other teams do. They gave up 32 TDs on defense last season... an average of 2 a game (ironically, the same number you're complaining about from yesterday). 

So either you're agreeing with my assessment that Belichick does take away big plays (which he does) and that TDs are not necessarily a reflection of big plays, or he's not very good at doing that, since he allowed 2 a game on average last season.

This would be one of those often occasions where perception and reality don't seem to match.

2. In terms of what to call that, its a simple concept... its called REASONABLE EXPECTATIONS. Its called not expecting a corner you pulled off the street last year and gave little guaranteed money to stop Allen Robinson from scoring all the time based on some obscure standard that you set.

I don't hold every play on this team to the same standard. I expect more from some and less from others. Compensation plays a factor into that, as does experience and overall perceived skill set. 

In general, as is everything in life, "you get what you pay for". Those people who spend mid-tier or bottom-tier money on something and expect it to be excellent typically end up disappointed at the end of the day. And most of the time, its simply an expectation problem, not a product/service problem.

[terps85]

40 minutes ago, Edug27 said:

I'm very aware. And that top 5 duo scored 2 TD's on Wright. You can switch a player off of Wright, but he still has to deal with the other one in front of him. Not entirely sure your point. No one is expecting Wright to shut down anyone. Because he can't... Not many Corners can. But I consider a TD to be a big play.... whether its a 40 yard deep ball, or a 5 yard route. So far during his time in purple, he's been a player known to give up the big play fairly easily. Just my opinion.

I'm not sure you're following what I'm saying. I never denied the fact that he gave up 2 TDs, but he was locked up with Allen Robinson which he really should never be. When he was on Hurns (a really good #2), he didn't give up much. It seemed like you were expecting him to shut down whoever he's covering based on the fact he didn't give up many yards (but if you consider TDs to be big plays then I guess that's your basis on that) to a very good receiving duo. 

[Edug27]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. Don't get the Belichick reference, because Belichick's teams allow a lot of TDs just like other teams do. They gave up 32 TDs on defense last season... an average of 2 a game (ironically, the same number you're complaining about from yesterday). 

So either you're agreeing with my assessment that Belichick does take away big plays (which he does) and that TDs are not necessarily a reflection of big plays, or he's not very good at doing that, since he allowed 2 a game on average last season.

This would be one of those often occasions where perception and reality don't seem to match.

2. In terms of what to call that, its a simple concept... its called REASONABLE EXPECTATIONS. Its called not expecting a corner you pulled off the street last year and gave little guaranteed money to stop Allen Robinson from scoring all the time based on some obscure standard that you set.

I don't hold every play on this team to the same standard. I expect more from some and less from others. Compensation plays a factor into that, as does experience and overall perceived skill set. 

In general, as is everything in life, "you get what you pay for". Those people who spend mid-tier or bottom-tier money on something and expect it to be excellent typically end up disappointed at the end of the day. And most of the time, its simply an expectation problem, not a product/service problem.

1. My point with the Belicheck reference was in regards to making the necessary adjustments when something isn't working. 

2. Still makes no sense me. It's a forum. You watch the games, and point out players strengths and their weaknesses. You point out things that are going well, and areas we can improve on going forward. We aren't working in the front office to determine who gets cut or re-signed (apologies if you actually do)..You keep mentioning Allen Robinson. Coleman also got the best of him. I expect this to be a continuing theme until it's addressed. Teams will keep attacking him. 

 

[rmcjacket23]

15 minutes ago, Edug27 said:

1. My point with the Belicheck reference was in regards to making the necessary adjustments when something isn't working. 

2. Still makes no sense me. It's a forum. You watch the games, and point out players strengths and their weaknesses. You point out things that are going well, and areas we can improve on going forward. We aren't working in the front office to determine who gets cut or re-signed (apologies if you actually do)..You keep mentioning Allen Robinson. Coleman also got the best of him. I expect this to be a continuing theme until it's addressed. Teams will keep attacking him. 

 

1. Which we did as well, so I still don't get the point.

2. Cool. Me personally, I don't find my time all that beneficial to second guess decision making as such. If I were to spend time emphasizing weak links, Shareece Wright would probably be about 10th on that list when I take into account expectations. 

I can think of a half dozen other problems that are much more concerning than his play is that I'd rather be addressing, and his play certainly doesn't warrant its own topic discussion.

[Edug27]

4 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. Which we did as well, so I still don't get the point.

2. Cool. Me personally, I don't find my time all that beneficial to second guess decision making as such. If I were to spend time emphasizing weak links, Shareece Wright would probably be about 10th on that list when I take into account expectations. 

I can think of a half dozen other problems that are much more concerning than his play is that I'd rather be addressing, and his play certainly doesn't warrant its own topic discussion.

1. *sighs* My very first point was around us needing to make adjustments with Wright. 

2. Cool. Those may be your areas of concern, so we will have to agree to disagree. When it comes to the defensive side of the ball, the secondary is high on my list. And these past 2 games I have felt Wright has struggled and been the weak link. I'm not calling for his benching, I'm just concerned it will be even more visible going forward. Hopefully not.

 

[The Mom Gene]

It was a hot one out there yesterday.  Gotta tell ya', I am a Shareece Wright fan.  First, Robinson is a beast. And only gonna get better too.  He's really a great WR.  Quick on his feet.  He's like a corner with good hands.  And very tough to stay on.  I'm not taking anything away from Wright from yesterday.  With all that he had done, the guy was making tackles on the QB as well.  When you see the ball, he's there.  He always seems to be in on the play.

[rmcjacket23]

18 hours ago, Edug27 said:

1. *sighs* My very first point was around us needing to make adjustments with Wright. 

2. Cool. Those may be your areas of concern, so we will have to agree to disagree. When it comes to the defensive side of the ball, the secondary is high on my list. And these past 2 games I have felt Wright has struggled and been the weak link. I'm not calling for his benching, I'm just concerned it will be even more visible going forward. Hopefully not.

 

We already made adjustments with Wright though. They were very evident during the Jacksonville game and the Cleveland game. Are you saying that we need adjustments for the adjustments now or what is the issue?

[Kid87]

Wright isn't bad, he has been beaten on big plays a few times, but he is a good #2... I like What I see from Young, but I wish Will Davis got some Playing Time I think he is a good CB 

[PurpleCity5]

1 hour ago, Kid87 said:

Wright isn't bad, he has been beaten on big plays a few times, but he is a good #2... I like What I see from Young, but I wish Will Davis got some Playing Time I think he is a good CB 

I'm not sure Davis is ready, in the pre-season he was beat plenty of times. Did not look good honestly. 

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

Wright can play. is he perfect? No but go back and look at the Bills game he was in on a few open field tackles against McCoy that says something. He can work on his coverage and I am sure he is every day. I think all of the team needs to work on some things.  I do know that stiff competition can really help a player get better. Bottom line is Harbs and his very talented staff are going to put the guys in the game who they feel give them the best chance to win.

[Rav'n Maniac]

We just need to shade coverage to Wright's side with Webb a little more to give him help over the top.

[redrum52]

I like how the fact BB is one the greatest HC and greatest defensive minds is being glossed over.

[BmoreRavens732]

He will be now. Guarantee either young moves outside and powers takes slot over or will Davis starts getting reps outside. Wright is terrible!!! Needs to be benched asap. Main reason we lost is because of him

[Edug27]

Basically what I've been trying to say in this thread... Wright is decent, but we need to explore other options that may be better. He's constantly getting beat out there. I don't expect him to shut receivers down, but geez, don't be a punching bag out there either. Make a stop. Make a play. If not,  you have to see if other players can. 

[GrimCoconut]

If Forsett was benched, I'm not sure how Wright can't be benched after today. He was beyond terrible.

[flynismo]

On 9/27/2016 at 0:08 PM, ALSKAN RAVEN FAN said:

Wright can play. is he perfect? No but go back and look at the Bills game he was in on a few open field tackles against McCoy that says something. He can work on his coverage and I am sure he is every day. I think all of the team needs to work on some things.  I do know that stiff competition can really help a player get better. Bottom line is Harbs and his very talented staff are going to put the guys in the game who they feel give them the best chance to win.

I believe he has it in him too. While he's getting those reps in and improving himself in practices, we need to find someone else to take his spot until he's ready. He already has stiff competition -- Tavon has been outplaying him three of four games.

[BmoreRavens732]

22 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

If Forsett was benched, I'm not sure how Wright can't be benched after today. He was beyond terrible.

There's no way he dont get benched! At this point I dont see how anyone who replaces him can be any worse. But then again you know how harbs sometimes likes giving guys the benefit of the doubt and waits sometimes to long to make moves. But on the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if he came up with a surprise injury and can suit up next week. Again you know how harbs is.

[52liveforever]

I don't see how anybody can call for anyone on our defense to be benched. Yes, Wright has given up plays.... To very good receivers. Wright has played way better than I expected and you all need to realize he is without a doubt the second best corner on our team.

[cobrajet]

6 minutes ago, 52liveforever said:

I don't see how anybody can call for anyone on our defense to be benched. Yes, Wright has given up plays.... To very good receivers. Wright has played way better than I expected and you all need to realize he is without a doubt the second best corner on our team.

Wright was not very good in preseason and has not been very good in three of the four regular season games. Some of us are starting to lose patience with him.

[GrimCoconut]

44 minutes ago, BmoreRavens732 said:

There's no way he dont get benched! At this point I dont see how anyone who replaces him can be any worse. But then again you know how harbs sometimes likes giving guys the benefit of the doubt and waits sometimes to long to make moves. But on the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if he came up with a surprise injury and can suit up next week. Again you know how harbs is.

I mean, there's a way. Wright may be better than the other options. I like Young a lot, but to be fair he hasn't been tested as much as Wright nor has he gone against the same type of WR. It's a fair question to say that he may not look at good with Wright's snaps. That said, I think he's got a big ceiling and I'm not very worried about his ability to cover those WR. 

41 minutes ago, 52liveforever said:

I don't see how anybody can call for anyone on our defense to be benched. Yes, Wright has given up plays.... To very good receivers. Wright has played way better than I expected and you all need to realize he is without a doubt the second best corner on our team.

Wright started looking good against Buffalo but has not carried that performance over into other games. He has looked average at best against Cleveland and Jacksonville, and had the opposite of a great game today. Today was one of the worst performances I saw from him. It's not all his fault because of the field position, but he has not played well and he got paid a contract extension so he is expected to perform. That said, I think it's time to consider maybe moving him into the slot and putting Young at the outside CB and seeing how they do. It's not going to require a shakeup of the defense, but it lets you see what you have. 

[Sizzlebshu]

Hes such a burn victim. Seriously why we paid this guy i will never know. We either took his stats last ye completely out of context in which case we are morons or we were desperate which is also bad 

Edited October 3, 2016 by Sizzlebshu

[Sizzlebshu]

1 hour ago, 52liveforever said:

I don't see how anybody can call for anyone on our defense to be benched. Yes, Wright has given up plays.... To very good receivers. Wright has played way better than I expected and you all need to realize he is without a doubt the second best corner on our team.

There isnt that much of a difference between wright and a street fa