Next Up: Ravens vs Oakland Raiders at M&T Bank Stadium

[January J]

10 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Wagner played LT in college so the footwork isn't foreign to him. 

Haven't paid attention to practice but I'm honestly surprised they're going with hurst rather than a reshuffle, how they can feel comfortable with him is beyond me. And considering our history of shuffled OLs it becomes even more surprising.

He was healthy and wouldn't sign a injury waiver, not even a relevant bullet point but you're right I'm wrong.

The point is we made many efforts to upgrade the LT position and the back up spot, and someone said "if we weren't confident in hurst he wouldn't be here" but thtas just not true, we had no choice.

We still could've given in and not forced Long to sign the injury waiver or whatever. So there had to be atleast SOME faith in Hurst as the backup or they would've rolled the dice on Long- esp after he was cleared by doctors. So technically yes we indeed did have a choice... Albeit a difficult one. Let's face it if we didnt have faith in him as the backup LT he wouldnt be on the roster period. I see your point though. Let's just hope we can get a game out of Hurst similar to last years in Oakland.

Edited October 1, 2016 by January J

[BmoreBird22]

20 hours ago, Tru11 said:

joe thomas, jake long, ryan clady, tyron smith, dbrickashaw furguson,matt light,orlando pace , walter jones, probably missed a few

Hell, even Matt Khalil (who regressed majorly) was excellent in his rookie year.

[Rav'n Maniac]

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Wagner played LT in college so the footwork isn't foreign to him. 

Haven't paid attention to practice but I'm honestly surprised they're going with hurst rather than a reshuffle, how they can feel comfortable with him is beyond me. And considering our history of shuffled OLs it becomes even more surprising.

He was healthy and wouldn't sign a injury waiver, not even a relevant bullet point but you're right I'm wrong.

The point is we made many efforts to upgrade the LT position and the back up spot, and someone said "if we weren't confident in hurst he wouldn't be here" but thtas just not true, we had no choice.

Since Wagner played LT in college, you are right saying the footwork isn't foreign to him. After playing at RT for 3 plus years exclusively the muscle memory shouldn't be there without practicing the position. If he's thinking about his feet, he's not concentrating on what he needs to do to make the block is my thinking.

I do agree with your last point. They certainly did try to upgrade the position, but it didn't work out and we're left with Hurst. I had hoped they would have completed the Long deal, but it's moot at this point. 

Edited October 1, 2016 by Rav'n Maniac

[JoeyFlex5]

18 minutes ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

Since Wagner played LT in college, you are right saying the footwork isn't foreign to him. After playing at RT for 3 plus years exclusively the muscle memory shouldn't be there without practicing the position. If he's thinking about his feet, he's not concentrating on what he needs to do to make the block is my thinking.

I do agree with your last point. They certainly did try to upgrade the position, but it didn't work out and we're left with Hurst. I had hoped they would have completed the Long deal, but it's moot at this point. 

the whole discussion is moot apparently since hurst is getting the nod by default lol. and yeah i fully understand the muscle memory part of it, im just of the thinking that if its not a brand new concept to you then it should be easily picked back up even if theres some hiccups on the way there. 

i just really dont like the idea of hurst at LT with our offense playing as bad as it has been. we really need to get something clicking and make something work to offset this loss, and we gotta find our rhythm, midseason is coming close and we are REALLY far from midseason form. 

although the ravens offense and flacco has always had a tendency to get on a long slump and then wake up out of nowhere and light the world on fire, i wouldnt be surprised to see our offense doing very bad, end up down by 2 possessions and then suddenly we find groove and storm back and stay the course for a few weeks, it always seems to be the case with us, we get our butts whooped for a half of football and someone says "what the hell are we doing? get it together" and then we do... im just waiting impatiently for that moment.

[ravensnj]

We need better play calling, without the 3 and outs. Our running game has been ineffective, so we need more easy play tosses for Joe to keep the Offense on the field. Pretty simple as NE and Philly have shown us the way. We have a big play offense that has come up short so far.

[Bandwagon]

Jimmy Smith got bodied by Amari last year and I dont think Wright can handle Crabtree

[RavensFanMania]

26 minutes ago, Bandwagon said:

Jimmy Smith got bodied by Amari last year and I dont think Wright can handle Crabtree

Jimmy was still recouperating from the Lisfranc the first half of the 2015 season.

 

[FlocksGottaFeed]

The Raiders have not been very successful playing on the East Coast and currently...

• With our Ravens being ranked 2nd Defensively and the Raiders ranked 31st Defensively - a 29 position difference
• With the Raiders being ranked 4th Offensively and our Ravens ranked 25th Offensively - a 21 Position difference

Wouldn't it be interesting if the final score ends up being a 29-21 Ravens home win?

[JoeyFlex5]

26 minutes ago, Bandwagon said:

Jimmy Smith got bodied by Amari last year and I dont think Wright can handle Crabtree

youre kidding right? in the 2nd series of the game, jimmys injured foot got tangled up trying to turn his hips and cooper beat him for a long ball, and he was absolutely blanked against jimmy the rest of the game, nearly all of his production the rest of that game came on the opposite side of the field or on bubble screen where jimmy was schemed to play the deep hash. this includes 3 passes defensed in man coverage, he knocked a ball loose in the backfield on a singled up quick screen, knocked the ball out of coopers hand after playing off coverage and breaking on a comeback preventing a first down, and made a great dive to swat the ball out of the air on a pretty well placed back shoulder throw in 1v1 man coverage. 

people have seriously selective memory regarding jimmy smith. check the film, its all there.

[BmoreRavens732]

20 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

youre kidding right? in the 2nd series of the game, jimmys injured foot got tangled up trying to turn his hips and cooper beat him for a long ball, and he was absolutely blanked against jimmy the rest of the game, nearly all of his production the rest of that game came on the opposite side of the field or on bubble screen where jimmy was schemed to play the deep hash. this includes 3 passes defensed in man coverage, he knocked a ball loose in the backfield on a singled up quick screen, knocked the ball out of coopers hand after playing off coverage and breaking on a comeback preventing a first down, and made a great dive to swat the ball out of the air on a pretty well placed back shoulder throw in 1v1 man coverage. 

people have seriously selective memory regarding jimmy smith. check the film, its all there.

Been saying the same thing. For some reason even this season people are low on jimmy and he's been pretty consistent. I dont believe he's had a bad game yet. Maybe a bad play or 2 but nothing serious at all compared to what some of these guys are trying to get at smh.

[BmoreBird22]

33 minutes ago, BmoreRavens732 said:

Been saying the same thing. For some reason even this season people are low on jimmy and he's been pretty consistent. I dont believe he's had a bad game yet. Maybe a bad play or 2 but nothing serious at all compared to what some of these guys are trying to get at smh.

You're going to find that certain players are punching bags for certain posters here. Flacco is obviously the most used punching bag, but Jimmy is frequently used as well.

[JoeyFlex5]

flacco and jimmy are certainly the top targets for scrutiny. one was the savior franchise qb we never had, won us a super bowl and got big bucks and hasnt quite been the same qb but has still been the catalyst for our success, the other was the savior cb when we desperately needed one who went through the same thing, although this was due to injuries, and since hes recovered hes been pretty good, and before the injury he was without question a top 5 cb in the league, in the conversation for the best when you account for the competition he shut down in a very long stretch. 

jimmy has played a pretty good season thus far, without question hes been our best corner and most consistent, and he hasnt been that by default either, he would be the best corner on quite a few teams if he played elsewhere, and hes shown the ability to play a bunch of different styles of cb and shadow as well which even some of the best cb's are unable to do. hes not in 2014 form, but 2013-2014 jimmy was first team all pro caliber, most fans will NEVER get to see a cb on their team play that well, there is 1 or 2 cb's every year who play at that level and they tend to fall off afterwards. the best cb's in the league get beaten on occasion, its probably the hardest position to play in the league, no positional group has the rules designed against them more than cbs, the prototype WR today is an absolute nightmare for any human being to try to outman, anticipate, run and jump with, in a league with AJ greens and dez bryants and fitzgeralds and odell beckhams you expect the cbs to just shut these people down on every snap? not possible. 

[JoeyFlex5]

i really prefer the idea of containing cooper and completely eliminating crabtree, rather than trying to eliminate both and most likely getting burned once or twice. it sounds safer, and more consistent. i actually think wright and a safety on cooper to keep him contained, and jimmy singled on crabtree and press covering often, is the best bet. crabtree is a perfect matchup for jimmy, not too big a threat to beat him deep, plays a possession game based on physicality and a hint of shiftiness, crabtree isnt gonna outmuscle jimmy on any snap, therefore he isnt gonna have a chance to break clean routes, jimmy can hem crabtree up at the line consistently i believe, and can play the ball with him everytime hes targeted, i think in a heavy snap count of man coverage jimmy would blank crabtree aside from the occasional catch for less than 5 yards on bubble screens. 

taking away the physical guy takes away the low effort throws, carr can loft it up there to crabtree at times with faith that hes gonna catch it, but if he does that against jimmy its gonna get ugly for him, without that outlet hes gonna have to force feed cooper, hes gonna hold the ball, pump fake, try to step up in the pocket when the edge closes in, hes gonna try to roll out to buy time, hes gonna begin looking at the middle of the field for clive walford as his 2nd read when he doesnt feel comfortable with crabtree, all these things are gonna add up to a flustered young qb taking sacks and throwing really ill advised passes.

i give pees a lot of flack, but i think this is the kind of game where his abilities shine, the untrained eye wont see it because we will probably give up a good bit of yardage, but it will be a chess match of forcing stressful situations on the qb, he may move the ball often throughout the game and the statline wont suggest the dc called a good game but the effects of the gameplan will be seen at the end.

[harfordravenfan]

45 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

You're going to find that certain players are punching bags for certain posters here. Flacco is obviously the most used punching bag, but Jimmy is frequently used as well.

There's a certain coordinator that's definitely taken a few punches on here also

[PurpleCity5]

Honestly, I think you just plug in Hurst and hope for the best.

Too much movement on the OL might not be good. Lewis and Wagner preform their best where they are at, that's all you really have to look for. Wagner, Yanda, and Lewis are solid pass protectors, it's just that Hurst and Zuttah(This year) are a liability there. I'd rather have three guys who can pass protect than potentially four who can't with moving Lewis and Wagner. 

[JoeyFlex5]

5 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Honestly, I think you just plug in Hurst and hope for the best.

Too much movement on the OL might not be good. Lewis and Wagner preform their best where they are at, that's all you really have to look for. Wagner, Yanda, and Lewis are solid pass protectors, it's just that Hurst and Zuttah(This year) are a liability there. I'd rather have three guys who can pass protect than potentially four who can't with moving Lewis and Wagner. 

id have a hard time believing lewis is at his best at LG, he hasnt been very good there for the most part and i for one believe he would be at his best at RT

[PurpleCity5]

16 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

id have a hard time believing lewis is at his best at LG, he hasnt been very good there for the most part and i for one believe he would be at his best at RT

He is a pretty solid pass blocker. He had a good game against the Jaguars. I just don't like too much movement around the OL right now. Run blocking seems to be a weakness of his but he is definitely solid in pass blocking. Chemistry seems to still be an issue for this OL so I'd rather just have less issues as possible there. Not to mention that with moving Lewis to LT, he'll have to deal with Khalil Mack and Bruce Irvin. Not really a good time to test out whether or not he's a good RT, maybe this is something the coaches would do later on the season if things go downward, but right now it doesn't seem like a good idea. 

[JoeyFlex5]

6 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

He is a pretty solid pass blocker. He had a good game against the Jaguars. I just don't like too much movement around the OL right now. Run blocking seems to be a weakness of his but he is definitely solid in pass blocking. Chemistry seems to still be an issue for this OL so I'd rather just have less issues as possible there. Not to mention that with moving Lewis to LT, he'll have to deal with Khalil Mack and Bruce Irvin. Not really a good time to test out whether or not he's a good RT, maybe this is something the coaches would do later on the season if things go downward, but right now it doesn't seem like a good idea. 

hes definitely a good pass blocker but i think he has big time leverage issues on the inside in the run game. he does fine when anchored and walling guys off but he gets no push off the line against those low center of gravity powerful DTs in a phone booth, i have to wonder how much better he would do given space and playing against guys who typically dont have as much of  a power/leverage advantage.

[PurpleCity5]

Just now, JoeyFlex5 said:

hes definitely a good pass blocker but i think he has big time leverage issues on the inside in the run game. he does fine when anchored and walling guys off but he gets no push off the line against those low center of gravity powerful DTs in a phone booth, i have to wonder how much better he would do given space and playing against guys who typically dont have as much of  a power/leverage advantage.

The lowest man always wins, he has a leverage problem but it stems from the fact that he does not get low enough. His pad level is too high so he doesn't get a biggest pop. I think that's the biggest problem with Lewis overall. I think he still learning the position and might need more time, however, I think he's the leading candidate to replace Wagner if he walks which seems likely at this point. 

[PurpleCity5]

I picked Jimmy Smith to have a break out game and he needs it really bad. Just reading some articles on Jimmy and while he's catching way more flack than he deserves, I honestly think that he's been average to solid. This is really concerning because last year we could all fall back on the obvious case that Jimmy was not 100% and that his foot was still a problem. This season he reiterates that he is 100% so I really hope he gets back into his groove. I don't know if this is true but PFF says that QBs have a QBR of 120 when targeting Smith, all while recording no batted passes and of course no INT's(Even though they fall on his hands and just misses them). He still looks like he doesn't have a lot of confidence in his speed. I think he's holding himself back a bit. Honestly, it's time that he gives himself a full go. I still think he doesn't have full confidence in his back peddles 

 

He's improved compared to his 2015 season, however people will say that Jimmy doesn't look anything like his 2014 self, well I would go a step further and say that he has not looked like his 2013 self when he had his break out year. 

Jimmy tends to improve as the season goes on, I hope that will be the case this year and he explodes this game. 

[JoeyFlex5]

41 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

The lowest man always wins, he has a leverage problem but it stems from the fact that he does not get low enough. His pad level is too high so he doesn't get a biggest pop. I think that's the biggest problem with Lewis overall. I think he still learning the position and might need more time, however, I think he's the leading candidate to replace Wagner if he walks which seems likely at this point. 

I think he's our RT next year and I thought that from the time they first announced he was practicing at LT

[JoeyFlex5]

19 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I picked Jimmy Smith to have a break out game and he needs it really bad. Just reading some articles on Jimmy and while he's catching way more flack than he deserves, I honestly think that he's been average to solid. This is really concerning because last year we could all fall back on the obvious case that Jimmy was not 100% and that his foot was still a problem. This season he reiterates that he is 100% so I really hope he gets back into his groove. I don't know if this is true but PFF says that QBs have a QBR of 120 when targeting Smith, all while recording no batted passes and of course no INT's(Even though they fall on his hands and just misses them). He still looks like he doesn't have a lot of confidence in his speed. I think he's holding himself back a bit. Honestly, it's time that he gives himself a full go. I still think he doesn't have full confidence in his back peddles 

 

He's improved compared to his 2015 season, however people will say that Jimmy doesn't look anything like his 2014 self, well I would go a step further and say that he has not looked like his 2013 self when he had his break out year. 

Jimmy tends to improve as the season goes on, I hope that will be the case this year and he explodes this game. 

When jimmy says he's 100% I don't think he means he's in 2014 form, I think he just means he's not feeling the lisfranc anymore, but just because he's not feeling it doesn't mean it's not an issue. I think people really underestimate what that can do to a cb, especially a big guy like jimmy. It saps a lot of his explosiveness even if he's not feeling pain, his foot is just not as stable as it once was. 

We will never see 2014 jimmy again because of that injury, he's gonna have moments where he slips up because he can't turn and explode downfield, but I think he's still gonna be a solid cb and an obvious starter, it would be nice if he could hold on to a pick though, it would make the overly picky fans forget about some of his slip ups.

[BmoreRavens732]

7 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

You're going to find that certain players are punching bags for certain posters here. Flacco is obviously the most used punching bag, but Jimmy is frequently used as well.

Ive been scanning these boards since 2011 or 12 quite frequently and your right, flaccos the top target and jimmy ain't far behind. I've seen quite a bit of guys who get picked on often for no reason just because they aren't they popular like a flacco or just because they have 1 bad game out of every 10. Or because there simply not liked lol

[Tokyo Reporter]

Forsett benched:

 

[allblackraven]

16 minutes ago, Tokyo Reporter said:

Forsett benched:

 

Hardly a stunner though

[JoeyFlex5]

40 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Hardly a stunner though

not a stunner at all tbh. i mean, im kinda surprised that harbaugh was vocal and upfront about it, a "starting" RB doesnt really mean much these days so it couldve went without saying, although im glad he came out and said it, sends a message that says: "no more starting jobs handed out just because youve played longer"

[Tru11]

15 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Hell, even Matt Khalil (who regressed majorly) was excellent in his rookie year.

true.

trent williams have been pretty good as well.

heck eugene monroe has been pretty darn good until he came here and got hit with the injury bug.

[Rav'n Maniac]

9 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

i really prefer the idea of containing cooper and completely eliminating crabtree, rather than trying to eliminate both and most likely getting burned once or twice. it sounds safer, and more consistent. i actually think wright and a safety on cooper to keep him contained, and jimmy singled on crabtree and press covering often, is the best bet. crabtree is a perfect matchup for jimmy, not too big a threat to beat him deep, plays a possession game based on physicality and a hint of shiftiness, crabtree isnt gonna outmuscle jimmy on any snap, therefore he isnt gonna have a chance to break clean routes, jimmy can hem crabtree up at the line consistently i believe, and can play the ball with him everytime hes targeted, i think in a heavy snap count of man coverage jimmy would blank crabtree aside from the occasional catch for less than 5 yards on bubble screens. 

taking away the physical guy takes away the low effort throws, carr can loft it up there to crabtree at times with faith that hes gonna catch it, but if he does that against jimmy its gonna get ugly for him, without that outlet hes gonna have to force feed cooper, hes gonna hold the ball, pump fake, try to step up in the pocket when the edge closes in, hes gonna try to roll out to buy time, hes gonna begin looking at the middle of the field for clive walford as his 2nd read when he doesnt feel comfortable with crabtree, all these things are gonna add up to a flustered young qb taking sacks and throwing really ill advised passes.

i give pees a lot of flack, but i think this is the kind of game where his abilities shine, the untrained eye wont see it because we will probably give up a good bit of yardage, but it will be a chess match of forcing stressful situations on the qb, he may move the ball often throughout the game and the statline wont suggest the dc called a good game but the effects of the gameplan will be seen at the end.

This is a really good and insightful post. I have been thinking the same since the beginning of the week. Definitely have to go to our strengths. Good job!

[January J]

10 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

You're going to find that certain players are punching bags for certain posters here. Flacco is obviously the most used punching bag, but Jimmy is frequently used as well.

Perrimans up there too..

 

Anyway as far as the rapoport tidbit does this mean Buck will be active or when they say Justin is benched does that just mean he's giving up the majority of carries? Or does "benched" mean how it sounds...

I hardly think Dixon is ready to go today..

[Davesta]

2 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

not a stunner at all tbh. i mean, im kinda surprised that harbaugh was vocal and upfront about it, a "starting" RB doesnt really mean much these days so it couldve went without saying, although im glad he came out and said it, sends a message that says: "no more starting jobs handed out just because youve played longer"

It seemed like a 50/50 split on touches when forsett was the "starter." Does that title mean anything? Do we see t west with a 20+ touches workload.. Or is it going to be split about evenly again you think?