Next Up: Ravens vs Oakland Raiders at M&T Bank Stadium

[PurpleCity5]

10 hours ago, Raider9175 said:

The Raiders have had a lot of injury problems at RT this year.  Let's see they lost their starting Rt( M Watson- out).  Their backup RT ( Austin Howard- out ), their third string Matt McCants( he isn't very good - but might be back this week) and start their rookie  ( Alexander) .   

Alexander who played pretty good against the Titans ,if he  has trouble against the Ravens this week.  The Raiders have the versatility to move the pieces on the offense line around to counter.  I don't foresee the offenseline being a problem .( D Carr gets rid of football quick). 

Yeah, I just talked to a Raiders fan and he said himself their OL has been banged up. The problem is as you pointed out, Derek Carr gets the ball out very quickly. We'll see how we adjust to that. 

[Rav'n Maniac]

22 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Yeah, I just talked to a Raiders fan and he said himself their OL has been banged up. The problem is as you pointed out, Derek Carr gets the ball out very quickly. We'll see how we adjust to that. 

Their starting RT and their backup RT are both out as they were last week. I think they moved their LT to RT and moved KO to LT for at least some portion of the game if not the whole thing.

[JoeyFlex5]

4 hours ago, wizard1 said:

He is way better than what we got in Stanley. That  guy will take years to develop..

That's funny because no. The guy is already more developed than any rookie LT you can name from the past 19 years.

[BmoreBird22]

27 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

That's funny because no. The guy is already more developed than any rookie LT you can name from the past 19 years.

Tyron Smith was probably better, but that's just one. Although, guys like Jake Long and Joe Thomas came in with instant success as well as rookies.

[Tru11]

38 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

That's funny because no. The guy is already more developed than any rookie LT you can name from the past 19 years.

joe thomas, jake long, ryan clady, tyron smith, dbrickashaw furguson,matt light,orlando pace , walter jones, probably missed a few

[January J]

3 hours ago, Sami84 said:

unless hurst is penciled in by default a line of

Lewis,Jensen.Zuttah,Yanda,Wagner might be at hand..

 

obviously thats if lewis is given the all clear from the protocol and from what i've seen that tends to be a ''no'' for the first week.

Harbs insuinated that lewis indeed WAS cleared. Didn't give a definitive answer but when does he ever when it comes to injuries? Lewis will be a go- Stanley will be out.

[Ravensfan23]

3 hours ago, Sami84 said:

unless hurst is penciled in by default a line of

Lewis,Jensen.Zuttah,Yanda,Wagner might be at hand..

 

obviously thats if lewis is given the all clear from the protocol and from what i've seen that tends to be a ''no'' for the first week.

There is no way Lewis is the LT for this game. He may indeed be the better option in terms of talent, but he hasn't practiced all week. Plus the coaches really like Hurst. If he isn't the backup LT there really isn't a reason to have him on this team. Plus Hurst has experience playing this Raiders team as he got the start last year and played well. The Ravens didn't give up a single sack in that game and Hurst was matched up vs Mack a lot. There has to be some level of trust the coaches have in Hurst and now is the time to display it. 

[hen826957]

4 hours ago, OUravensfan said:

Stanley doubtful 

When their doubtful they usually don't play so that's not good for our o-line. It's look like Hurst might start at LT which is bad. I hope Hurst can hold up for just one game because he gonna go up against Mack. We might be fine though. I believe in Hurst can get the job done. 

[January J]

Hurst might have a chip on his shoulder after all the hate he's been gettin for Rollin up on Joe. Let's hope he can take some of that frustration out on mack and company.

[January J]

38 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

There is no way Lewis is the LT for this game. He may indeed be the better option in terms of talent, but he hasn't practiced all week. Plus the coaches really like Hurst. If he isn't the backup LT there really isn't a reason to have him on this team. Plus Hurst has experience playing this Raiders team as he got the start last year and played well. The Ravens didn't give up a single sack in that game and Hurst was matched up vs Mack a lot. There has to be some level of trust the coaches have in Hurst and now is the time to display it. 

Although many don't wanna see it your probably right.  Only makes sense. Hurst has caught a lot of flack and gotten a bad rep mainly for bein the one to roll up on Joe ( which obviously couldve happened to anybody)  but I think he's capable of getting the job done. If things get really ugly an adjustment will be made, but let's hope it doesn't  come to that.

[DomMcRaven]

13 minutes ago, January J said:

Hurst might have a chip on his shoulder after all the hate he's been gettin for Rollin up on Joe. Let's hope he can take some of that frustration out on mack and company.

He can have a Titanic sized chip on his shoulder for all I care. If he plays, he needs to IMPROVE. 

[AppStRavenfan]

I get that we would rather have almost anyone start instead of Hurst but there's no chance whatsoever that Lewis will start there over him. As bad as Hurst is, he's still probably better than Lewis right now at that position. Starting a rookie who's almost exclusively played guard for us so far - sans a handful of snaps in the first preseason game - is not a safer bet than Hurst, if anything is a way bigger gamble. Then throw in the fact that he's been at very least dealing with concussion symptoms all week and it's just not going to happen. As bad as he is, Hurst is the best option we have at LT if Stanley doesn't play.

Edited October 1, 2016 by AppStRavenfan

[Filmstudy]

2 hours ago, AppStRavenfan said:

I get that we would rather have almost anyone start instead of Hurst but there's no chance whatsoever that Lewis will start there over him. As bad as Hurst is, he's still probably better than Lewis right now at that position. Starting a rookie who's almost exclusively played guard for us so far - sans a handful of snaps in the first preseason game - is not a safer bet than Hurst, if anything is a way bigger gamble. Then throw in the fact that he's been at very least dealing with concussion symptoms all week and it's just not going to happen. As bad as he is, Hurst is the best option we have at LT if Stanley doesn't play.

I don't agree this is cast in stone, nor do I believe they need to go through the whole game if they start with Hurst at LT and it isn't working.

--Lewis to LT

--Lewis to RT, Wagner LT

--Wagner LT, Yanda RT

are all possibilities.  With the team 3-0 and this game having significant tiebreaker implications, they can't give it away if Hurst isn't getting it done.  If Lewis plays somewhere, I'd handicap it right now as:

50%:  Lewis/Jensen/Zuttah/Yanda/Wagner

20%:  Wagner/Jensen/Zuttah/Yanda/Lewis

30%:  Some other combination with Lewis at LG, of which not all would include Hurst at LT.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, Filmstudy said:

I don't agree this is cast in stone, nor do I believe they need to go through the whole game if they start with Hurst at LT and it isn't working.

--Lewis to LT

--Lewis to RT, Wagner LT

--Wagner LT, Yanda RT

are all possibilities.  With the team 3-0 and this game having significant tiebreaker implications, they can't give it away if Hurst isn't getting it done.  If Lewis plays somewhere, I'd handicap it right now as:

50%:  Lewis/Jensen/Zuttah/Yanda/Wagner

20%:  Wagner/Jensen/Zuttah/Yanda/Lewis

30%:  Some other combination with Lewis at LG, of which not all would include Hurst at LT.

 

wagner LT and lewis RT sounds best to me, keep yanda at guard, put lewis at his more natural position, his height but average length and good blend of anchor and strength make for a prototype RT and weak guard or LT, wagner has LT potential, the guy has stonewall moments and has traits to play either side, and taking yanda away from the interior and lleaving zuttah and 2 backup guards would be an absolute disaster

WAGNER-JENSEN-ZUTTAH-YANDA-LEWIS strikes me as the best lineup, or you could put in urschel, take zuttah out, and position C and LG however they feel is best, whether they wanna bookend the center with power or stack power in the interior and leave one side weaker but still sound in pass pro. id prefer bookending the center, wagner has average run blocking for a RT but should do ok by LT standards(considering run blocking is an afterthought for LTs) and lewis looks like he could do very well getting some push against DEs and OLBs rather than DTs and NTs, and with yanda and jensen on the inside shoulder of both of them they have some power on the inside and should be able to focus on the exterior of the play, it also allows for a diverse run game, wagner/jensen or yanda/lewis both sound like solid gaps to attack with the run game assuming justin forsett isnt carrying the rock. 

[PurpleHorseman]

 

    Looks good to me and valid points. May want to at least  consider Urschel at Center as the only alternative blend to your lineup. Lewis has looked somewhat sluggish in getting push at guard. Although no guarantee, he may get adequate push on Defensive ends. We expect Wagner to break out this year at some point and play like an earthmover at RT. He has adequate left tackle athleticism. 

 

4 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

wagner LT and lewis RT sounds best to me, keep yanda at guard, put lewis at his more natural position, his height but average length and good blend of anchor and strength make for a prototype RT and weak guard or LT, wagner has LT potential, the guy has stonewall moments and has traits to play either side, and taking yanda away from the interior and lleaving zuttah and 2 backup guards would be an absolute disaster

WAGNER-JENSEN-ZUTTAH-YANDA-LEWIS strikes me as the best lineup, or you could put in urschel, take zuttah out, and position C and LG however they feel is best, whether they wanna bookend the center with power or stack power in the interior and leave one side weaker but still sound in pass pro. id prefer bookending the center, wagner has average run blocking for a RT but should do ok by LT standards(considering run blocking is an afterthought for LTs) and lewis looks like he could do very well getting some push against DEs and OLBs rather than DTs and NTs, and with yanda and jensen on the inside shoulder of both of them they have some power on the inside and should be able to focus on the exterior of the play, it also allows for a diverse run game, wagner/jensen or yanda/lewis both sound like solid gaps to attack with the run game assuming justin forsett isnt carrying the rock. 

 

Edited October 1, 2016 by PurpleHorseman

[AppStRavenfan]

Of course I can't dictate what you think nor do I want to, but if I were to hypothetically put money down on it right now, I'd say with 100% certainty that if Stanley can't play and Lewis does then our oline will be Hurst - Lewis - Zuttah - Yanda - Wagner. I get the sentiment that Hurst is liability but a complete reshuffle in a game that in all likelihood isn't a must win is just not going to happen in my opinion. Hurst is not a good player but all other scenarios presented are much riskier than just playing Hurst - Yanda has never played LT, at least not in many many years, Lewis is a rookie that we haven't played there since the first preseason game, Wagner has had his fair share of disappointing games at RT so moving him over is a gamble We all would rather never have Hurst start again, there is no dispute here, but if we had no intentions on having him as backup LT then we simply wouldn't have kept him on the roster, we could have used that spot on multiple other players but we kept Hurst, we didn't keep him because we'd rather completely overhaul our line instead of playing him, that just doesn't make any sense. If history is any indication, from what I've seen we are at very least going to give Hurst a shot before doing anything rash.

Edited October 1, 2016 by AppStRavenfan

[Tank 92]

Zuttah at center worries me more than who will be playing LT.

[Jacquouille]

18 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

Zuttah at center worries me more than who will be playing LT.

Very true. If Lewis is active, Jensen has to be the C. The running game suddenly was good when he was on the field.

[JoeyFlex5]

3 hours ago, PurpleHorseman said:

 

    Looks good to me and valid points. May want to at least  consider Urschel at Center as the only alternative blend to your lineup. Lewis has looked somewhat sluggish in getting push at guard. Although no guarantee, he may get adequate push on Defensive ends. We expect Wagner to break out this year at some point and play like an earthmover at RT. He has adequate left tackle athleticism. 

urschel is totally weaksauce though, hes not an upgrade from zuttah, its a breakeven move at best with the risk of losing familiarity. hes been way too overrated by our fanbase. i think lewis' struggle to get push against interior defenders is simply the power and leverage factor, i think if hes facing guys that arent the 5 inches shorter than him then he may do better, plus the interior has been overwhelmed in general with lewis playing too high and zuttah playing too weak. alex lewis isnt a soft or weak player by any means, he wasnt in college and he wasnt in preseason playing tackle, but he has struggled at guard and until he shows otherwise ill give him the benefit of the doubt that he just isnt a fit at guard.

[JoeyFlex5]

48 minutes ago, AppStRavenfan said:

Of course I can't dictate what you think nor do I want to, but if I were to hypothetically put money down on it right now, I'd say with 100% certainty that if Stanley can't play and Lewis does then our oline will be Hurst - Lewis - Zuttah - Yanda - Wagner. I get the sentiment that Hurst is liability but a complete reshuffle in a game that in all likelihood isn't a must win is just not going to happen in my opinion. Hurst is not a good player but all other scenarios presented are much riskier than just playing Hurst - Yanda has never played LT, at least not in many many years, Lewis is a rookie that we haven't played there since the first preseason game, Wagner has had his fair share of disappointing games at RT so moving him over is a gamble We all would rather never have Hurst start again, there is no dispute here, but if we had no intentions on having him as backup LT then we simply wouldn't have kept him on the roster, we could have used that spot on multiple other players but we kept Hurst, we didn't keep him because we'd rather completely overhaul our line instead of playing him, that just doesn't make any sense. If history is any indication, from what I've seen we are at very least going to give Hurst a shot before doing anything rash.

but we jumped at the opportunity to replace hurst, drafted a LT at 6 overall and drafted a swing tackle later and immediately slotted him at LT in the preseason when hurst was healthy, then made a bid for chris long but he failed the physical, hurst would be long gone had long checked out medically. hurst is literally our last option, and every OL move the team has made has pointed to that being true, which is why i think a shuffle is coming, harbaugh has never once been shy about shuffling the line, its a point of emphasis to have linemen who play multiple positions, also a common castillo philosophy, we draft and coach to build a versatile line that can shuffle at a moments notice, and harbaugh is an avid supporter of fielding your 5 best guys at OL, if hurst is the absolute last man on the list then a shuffle is almost certain to come before he starts, if lewis, wagner, and yanda are starting, and there are guys to fill in at guard(which there are) then i have a hard time believing that hurst simply beats any of those 3 out of the starting lineup. history just doesnt point to it. 

not to mention, a total reshuffling of the line is actually a minimal impact thing unless youre running a stretch zone, its almost a nonfactor in a gap scheme and much less a factor in a inside zone than a stretch, every player has individual assignments and steps to follow, where in a zone stretch players have to feel eachothers speed and stay cohesive. the only part of our scheme where there would be worries about chemistry would be changing the center, which sadly has a weaker starter than any of our backups anywhere else on the line..

[Rav'n Maniac]

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

but we jumped at the opportunity to replace hurst, drafted a LT at 6 overall and drafted a swing tackle later and immediately slotted him at LT in the preseason when hurst was healthy, then made a bid for chris long but he failed the physical, hurst would be long gone had long checked out medically. hurst is literally our last option, and every OL move the team has made has pointed to that being true, which is why i think a shuffle is coming, harbaugh has never once been shy about shuffling the line, its a point of emphasis to have linemen who play multiple positions, also a common castillo philosophy, we draft and coach to build a versatile line that can shuffle at a moments notice, and harbaugh is an avid supporter of fielding your 5 best guys at OL, if hurst is the absolute last man on the list then a shuffle is almost certain to come before he starts, if lewis, wagner, and yanda are starting, and there are guys to fill in at guard(which there are) then i have a hard time believing that hurst simply beats any of those 3 out of the starting lineup. history just doesnt point to it. 

not to mention, a total reshuffling of the line is actually a minimal impact thing unless youre running a stretch zone, its almost a nonfactor in a gap scheme and much less a factor in a inside zone than a stretch, every player has individual assignments and steps to follow, where in a zone stretch players have to feel eachothers speed and stay cohesive. the only part of our scheme where there would be worries about chemistry would be changing the center, which sadly has a weaker starter than any of our backups anywhere else on the line..

Don't you think if Wagner was to play LT they would have practiced him there this week? Especially with the footwork being the complete opposite of what he's use to? All the news coming out this week was Hurst practicing with the first team. If Stanley is a no-go, Hurst will see the start imo.

No offense,but you are wrong on the Long signing. He received full clearance from Dr. Andrews on the knee so he didn't fail the physical. He refused to sign a injury waiver, which is why he's not here and Hurst still is.

http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2016/9/30/13116274/james-hurst-may-have-to-step-up-on-sunday

Edited October 1, 2016 by Rav'n Maniac

[Cillmatic]

If Trestman is smart we can expect to see Joe with some quick releases tomorrow.

[Jacquouille]

12 minutes ago, Cillmatic said:

If Trestman is smart we can expect to see Joe with some quick releases tomorrow.

That's Trestman's playbook anyway. 

[rmcjacket23]

55 minutes ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

Don't you think if Wagner was to play LT they would have practiced him there this week? Especially with the footwork being the complete opposite of what he's use to? All the news coming out this week was Hurst practicing with the first team. If Stanley is a no-go, Hurst will see the start imo.

No offense,but you are wrong on the Long signing. He received full clearance from Dr. Andrews on the knee so he didn't fail the physical. He refused to sign a injury waiver, which is why he's not here and Hurst still is.

http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2016/9/30/13116274/james-hurst-may-have-to-step-up-on-sunday

Agreed. I don't think Wagner is an option at LT, at least not this week.

I think Hurst starts. If he was doing very poorly, I think you'd see Lewis kick outside to LT.

The only way I see Wagner playing LT on Sunday is if Lewis and Stanley are both out, and Hurst gets injured during the game.

[PurpleCity5]

13 hours ago, DomMcRaven said:

He can have a Titanic sized chip on his shoulder for all I care. If he plays, he needs to IMPROVE. 

I don't care about the chip on his shoulder either. Guy has not been good at all, he's going to have to ball out. That's really it. I could care less about the news or reports about him being excited or waiting to prove himself, if the guy sucks than that's all that matters. 

Edited October 1, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[OUravensfan]

3 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

That's Trestman's playbook anyway. 

I mean it really kind of is 

[Cillmatic]

Looks like the Raiders' starting RT and backup RT aren't playing.

[January J]

If we can eliminate the big plays and even HALFWAY run the ball successfully then we should win rather easily. As long as our o line doesn't just self destruct and can give Joe enough time to air it out on play action plays then Oakland will be in trouble. They will put up some points regardless but we can't let them get an early jump on us like last year. Grab the lead and just  keep applyin pressure- control the clock and just suffocate them. I think we might give west the majority of touches in the first half and see if he can find a groove. If he does then Flacco is going to have a FEILD DAY with their secondary and I can see everybody getting involved. They will try to key in on wallace and pitta so Watch out for Moore, SSS and juice. Crockett might be heavily involved too since they may run quite a few double tight end sets to give Joe some extra protection. Look out for him and juice in the redzone. But this all rides on west or forsett being able to get some chunk yardage and keep them guessing.

[balfan23]

4 hours ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

Don't you think if Wagner was to play LT they would have practiced him there this week? Especially with the footwork being the complete opposite of what he's use to? All the news coming out this week was Hurst practicing with the first team. If Stanley is a no-go, Hurst will see the start imo.

No offense,but you are wrong on the Long signing. He received full clearance from Dr. Andrews on the knee so he didn't fail the physical. He refused to sign a injury waiver, which is why he's not here and Hurst still is.

http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2016/9/30/13116274/james-hurst-may-have-to-step-up-on-sunday

I agree that it is virtually 100% that Hurst plays LT if Stanley cannot go (which seems to be the case). Too often people just view the players along the line as plugable pieces, but there is a lot of coordination involved along the o line and massive changes to configurations that have not been practiced at any point during the week leading up to the game rarely happen.  

I suppose the one caveat could be that - the only reason Lewis didn't practice all week was a concussion. If he passes protocol and can play, he should be pretty close to 100% and has likely spent some practice (but not this week) at LT. If Lewis is a go, then I still think Hurst starts, but Hurst may have something of a short leash if he isn't holding up. 

[JoeyFlex5]

4 hours ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

Don't you think if Wagner was to play LT they would have practiced him there this week? Especially with the footwork being the complete opposite of what he's use to? All the news coming out this week was Hurst practicing with the first team. If Stanley is a no-go, Hurst will see the start imo.

No offense,but you are wrong on the Long signing. He received full clearance from Dr. Andrews on the knee so he didn't fail the physical. He refused to sign a injury waiver, which is why he's not here and Hurst still is.

http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2016/9/30/13116274/james-hurst-may-have-to-step-up-on-sunday

Wagner played LT in college so the footwork isn't foreign to him. 

Haven't paid attention to practice but I'm honestly surprised they're going with hurst rather than a reshuffle, how they can feel comfortable with him is beyond me. And considering our history of shuffled OLs it becomes even more surprising.

He was healthy and wouldn't sign a injury waiver, not even a relevant bullet point but you're right I'm wrong.

The point is we made many efforts to upgrade the LT position and the back up spot, and someone said "if we weren't confident in hurst he wouldn't be here" but thtas just not true, we had no choice.