Should Jensen and Urschel replace Lewis and Zuttah respectively?

[ALPHA]

51 minutes ago, PurpleHorseman said:

 

    Could the reasoning be Jensen is a free agent this spring? And ravens are not interested in driving up his value in the event he plays very well. I do not think his protection of Joe is bad at all. Could improve and it probably will. If Jensen plays well for 8 games he will be cheaper than if he plays very well for 16-19 games including playoffs. Lewis is considered the future at some position along the OL. And coaching prefers him getting experience.

 

If Jensen plays like he did late last year his pay could end up quite lucrative. Then if Wagner can pull it together and reclaim his 2014 form he would be expensive himself. Jensen and Wagner could play very well and even fix the run game. But ravens are then have the challenge of resigning 2 players on Joe's line with Lewis relatively unproven. If the case is he is beaten out for a job and rides the bench this season.

I would be surprised if we ever sat superior players to drive down their FA value. Maybe we just overrate Jensen and the coaches have a better idea of what he can and can't do, Gino Gradkowski looked like a world beater in limited snaps too.

[Cawtious]

41 minutes ago, ALPHA said:

I would be surprised if we ever sat superior players to drive down their FA value. Maybe we just overrate Jensen and the coaches have a better idea of what he can and can't do, Gino Gradkowski looked like a world beater in limited snaps too.

I think the situation is going to give Jensen the chance to once again prove he is a starter. 

 

On another note: With his RFA pending, they are going to have to affix a round tender to him in March and see what happens.  Wagner may be penned to a deal and they're going to be limited to what they can offer to keep Jensen. If another team comes calling with a need for a G/C and outbids the Ravens.....he's gone.

Even Filmstudy indicated that Jensen's play in the last two PS games was "near perfect", I believe the quote was.   I would think the other 31 teams took notice of his capabilities.  If he isn't a starter next year, I'd be very, very surprised.....even if that means he is not starting for the Ravens. 

I don't think he's over-rated.....I think he's under-utilized and I am not sure exactly why.  Again, credit where credit is due to the current starters.....

[rmcjacket23]

5 hours ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

Wow. Really? Didn't know the "Coaches spend the entire offseason evaluating players."

I thought the off season was uniform fittings, team photos, learning to run the rope ladders and hand use on tackle dummies.

Really need to brush up on football 101.

Question: Are you a "fan"?

So the guy who is suggesting that we just throw players into the middle of a regular season game (of a 3-0 team) to find out if they can actually play or not thinks somebody else needs to brush up on Football 101?

Now that's the definition of irony...

[Rav'n Maniac]

39 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

So the guy who is suggesting that we just throw players into the middle of a regular season game (of a 3-0 team) to find out if they can actually play or not thinks somebody else needs to brush up on Football 101?

Now that's the definition of irony...

Please check your pm's. Thanks!

[rmcjacket23]

On 9/28/2016 at 6:37 PM, BmoreBird22 said:

You're talking to someone who actually played OL in college, so with him, I don't think it's too irrelevant or subjective... I'd trust his assessment on this subject more than anyone else on the board.

LOL.

I mean, based on what he's been saying, I think he's knowledgeable on the subject matter, but I think its quite a bit of a stretch for me to just trust what somebody says based on whether or not they played in HS. I mean I played QB at a small, irrelevant HS, but I'm certainly nowhere near knowledgeable enough to discuss advanced QB analysis or technique, mostly because I wasn't very good and didn't work that hard at it. Frankly, I just assumed half the posters on this board played football at a high school level, and probably some of them are still wearing their varsity jackets when they post.

Me taking somebodies analysis seriously because they have HS experience is like me listening to somebody discuss a detailed explanation of the human anatomy, based on them getting an A in a HS anatomy class.

It would seem more logical to follow the lead of not only people that played the game at a higher level, but also are paid large amounts of money by billion dollar companies to coach the position as well. 

[BmoreBird22]

3 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

LOL.

Well, he also played college football, but I suppose that's irrelevant, too, right? Probably a fullback since many of the more "undersized" lineman in high school switch to fullback because they have the size and understand the blocking needs. @The Raven am I right to assume fullback?

Seriously, though- he's easily the most knowledgeable poster, showing insight on individual players and schemes.

But when it comes to you, you have shown nothing to say that your opinion on the matter should be move valued than his. 

Edited September 30, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

Well, he also played college football, but I suppose that's irrelevant, too, right?

Seriously, though- he's easily the most knowledgeable poster, showing insight on individual players and schemes.

But when it comes to you, you have shown nothing to say that your opinion on the matter should be move valued than his. 

My opinion is precisely the opinion of the Baltimore Ravens coaching staff. 

Their qualifications are better. I'll roll with whatever they decide.

Thanks

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

My opinion is precisely the opinion of the Baltimore Ravens coaching staff. 

Their qualifications are better. I'll roll with whatever they decide.

Thanks

Except, you have no idea what's going on with their mindset, but hey, let's pretend that the individual opinions of a former college player are somehow inferior to yours.

Also, let's not pretend coaches are infallible or haven't ever made the wrong decision on who to start.

Edited September 30, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[rmcjacket23]

12 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Except, you have no idea what's going on with their mindset, but hey, let's pretend that the individual opinions of a former college player are somehow inferior to yours.

Also, let's not pretend coaches are infallible or haven't ever made the wrong decision on who to start.

1. Actually, everybody has an idea of their mindset. They're called actions. They tell you everything you need to know. When Zuttah is still starting over Jensen, despite fans thinking that he shouldn't be, strong conclusions can be reached from that decision about what the coaching staffs mindset is in regards to their play and value. Simple concept.

2. Yup, they make wrong decisions. Fans do also (obviously). I tend to roll with the decisions of the people who are more qualified to make those decisions, and by a wide margin, the people who are more likely to make the right one's. In this instance, its not even close. The gap is gigantic.

Its why you will rarely, if ever, see me being the guy asking why so and so isn't getting more playing time or why coaches made this decision instead of doing that. 

I know my position in "who's likely to make a wrong decision" tree, and I'm far more likely to make one than the coaching staff is. I'm most interested in what is likely to happen, not what could happen.

 

Edited September 30, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

1. Actually, everybody has an idea of their mindset. They're called actions. They tell you everything you need to know. When Zuttah is still starting over Jensen, despite fans thinking that he shouldn't be, strong conclusions can be reached from that decision. Simple concept.

2. Yup, they make wrong decisions. Fans do also (obviously). I tend to roll with the decisions of the people who are more qualified to make those decisions, and by a wide margin, the people who are more likely to make the right one's. In this instance, its not even close. The gap is gigantic.

Its why you will rarely, if ever, see me being the guy asking why so and so isn't getting more playing time or why coaches made this decision instead of doing that. 

I know my position in "who's likely to make a wrong decision" tree, and I'm far more likely to make one than the coaching staff is. I'm most interested in what is likely to happen, not what could happen.

I'm not here to argue whether or not Zuttah should be starting over Jensen (although, I'd imagine a large part of that is due to continuity, experience, and chemistry. Probably wouldn't be advantageous to the line or offense as a whole to have three new starters). I'm here simply pointing out that he has vastly more experience than anyone on the board, so discrediting his opinion for what ever reason (since he played at a higher level than you) is just silly.

I will admit that fans are frequently wrong, but they aren't making the wrong decisions, usually, since they aren't given the chance to make that decision. That's what makes this an opinion based forum, not a forum for analyzing the data and results of decisions made by fans.

And I think it's a bit ridiculous to not wonder what could happen when we know what is happening.

[The Raven]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

LOL.

I mean, based on what he's been saying, I think he's knowledgeable on the subject matter, but I think its quite a bit of a stretch for me to just trust what somebody says based on whether or not they played in HS. I mean I played QB at a small, irrelevant HS, but I'm certainly nowhere near knowledgeable enough to discuss advanced QB analysis or technique, mostly because I wasn't very good and didn't work that hard at it. Frankly, I just assumed half the posters on this board played football at a high school level, and probably some of them are still wearing their varsity jackets when they post.

Me taking somebodies analysis seriously because they have HS experience is like me listening to somebody discuss a detailed explanation of the human anatomy, based on them getting an A in a HS anatomy class.

It would seem more logical to follow the lead of not only people that played the game at a higher level, but also are paid large amounts of money by billion dollar companies to coach the position as well. 

Tough but fair, even if football is nowhere near as complicated as anatomy. I think you overrate how complex the sport is and how hard it is to understand.

3 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Well, he also played college football, but I suppose that's irrelevant, too, right? Probably a fullback since many of the more "undersized" lineman in high school switch to fullback because they have the size and understand the blocking needs. @The Raven am I right to assume fullback?

Seriously, though- he's easily the most knowledgeable poster, showing insight on individual players and schemes.

But when it comes to you, you have shown nothing to say that your opinion on the matter should be move valued than his. 

Yes, and for the exact reason. I could trap and pull like a beast in HS but couldn't drive block some of the bigger guys. So fullback was the natural transition.

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

My opinion is precisely the opinion of the Baltimore Ravens coaching staff. 

Their qualifications are better. I'll roll with whatever they decide.

Thanks

That's fair, as I said.

My thoughts on Zuttah and Jensen can be summed up like this: Jensen is who I would start at center, but it's clear that Trestman is looking for different qualities in his center position. If I was a coach or OC running a tight zone and gap scheme, I'd prefer to have a stronger, meaner guy that doesn't get pushed around. But Trestman wants a pass blocking center, and if that's what he wants, I can't fault him for starting Zuttah over Jensen. In pass pro, Zuttah is better. 

I will also question whether Trestman knows how to use his personnel. Tight zone, which is again significantly dependent on the center, is just a bad scheme fit for Zuttah. Zuttah was pretty damn good in Kubiak's stretch game. That alone gives me enough to question whether Trestman knows what he's doing upfront. He went completely away from something we did very well. That's idiotic. I don't care if he's a professional and I'm not. If you do something well, you continue doing it. 

And, I would still give Zuttah more than three games to figure it out. We've been good enough to where I'd give him a couple chances before ditching him.

Edited September 30, 2016 by The Raven

[harfordravenfan]

This is for the board/scheme experts...

How does the "no cut blocks" rule effect our system. And are we struggling because we've tried to build our line around it?

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, The Raven said:

Yes, and for the exact reason. I could trap and pull like a beast in HS but couldn't drive block some of the bigger guys. So fullback was the natural transition.

And it wasn't to say that you know better than the Ravens, but if I have questions about the offensive line or how it might be fixed, I'm coming to you on this board. I'm not gonna challenge your knowledge because you weren't a dominant DI tackle that played in the NFL for 20 years.

[Maryland]

Part of me actually wouldn't be upset to see Jensen play LG at the expense of Lewis sitting-out a game. It might finally settle the debate on how talented he truly is. 

[Cawtious]

If one game settles the debate, then it would have been settled last year when he received the highest Oline score in the league for one game.   He is that good.  ?