Should Jensen and Urschel replace Lewis and Zuttah respectively?

[Sami84]

I think Lewis has been thrown into the fire too early and in the running game in particular he's been awful. Combine that with zuttah and you have a recipe for NO run game. Jensen has been great at LG.Urschel should replace zuttah simply because he cant be worse than zuttah.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Sami84

[PurpleCity5]

I'll admit I was a bit shocked that Lewis was given the starting nod. I thought Jensen played very well down the stretch last year and I felt that he had a good shot to be our starting LG. I think Lewis is a solid pass blocker but as far as run blocking goes its just not there at all. 
 

I think the team would rather see just how much longer they can ride it out with Zuttah honestly. It's difficult to replace a Center into the season. That's why trading for one is completely out of the question considering the emphasis that goes in to QB-Center chemistry. The QB has more contact with the Center than anyone else on the field thus it makes it tough to replace. When you take into account identifying the mic, blitzes, coverage, and the snap count then you get a general idea of just how much build up there is between a QB and a Center. 

  I think Lewis will be the one who is replaced first and then Zuttah. Believe me, I would love to see some new looks at C but it seems more likely that we do something at guard than Center. I think once the team has had enough of Zuttah they will move Urschel there because as you said, you can't get worse. I know I've been sounding like the biggest Zuttah hater but there is nothing to be found as far as run blocking goes. Whenever they try to run it between him and Lewis its like running into a brick wall, just nothing there and he's declined in the pass blocking department, a place considered his strength. 

Edited September 19, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[Sami84]

its strange as jensen has shown signs of elite play. Heck last year he had 3 of the highest consecutive grades in PFF history at LG.Even this preseason he did a great job for dixon and west.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

At this point I'm for putting Yanda at Center while having Jensen and Urschel man the left and right guard spots at center. I mean, when Gino played center years ago, he called the protections so I think he's capable. It's probably a disastrous idea though. Plus, you usually put your best guard at RG. 

 

Harbaugh, please don't listen to me. It's 11:52 and I'm really sleep deprived and the coffee is wearing off

Edited September 19, 2016 by LosT_in_TranSlatioN

[Sami84]

1 minute ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

At this point I'm for putting Yanda at Center while having Jensen and Urschel man the left and right guard spots at center. I mean, when Gino played center years ago, he called the protections so I think he's capable. It's probably a disastrous idea though. Plus, you usually put your best guard at RG. 

 

Harbaugh, please don't listen to me. It's 11:52 and I'm really sleep deprived and the coffee is wearing off

 

I'm for this lineup : Stanley, Jensen,Urschel,Yanda, Wagner

Lewis is decent at Pass protection..but he is not a mauler and unless you have a guy like nick mangold at center it aint going to be pretty on that side with lewis next to you.

[Daft Classic]

I've been done with Zuttah since pretty much last season. He's not going to be here much longer anyways, and while we have a bit of a buffer at 2-0, we might as well start working in his younger, more capable replacement in hopefully Urschel. Lewis on the other hand I'd like to wait a little longer on. He is being thrown into the fire and picking up how to be a starting caliber guard on the fly. Give him another week or two to correct a few things, but if he doesn't get it together we can send Jensen out and Lewis can learn from the bench.

Essentially, We can't be much worse starting Urschel at Center over Zuttah, but we still have room to grow with Lewis at LG

[balfan23]

It is kind of hard to replace Zuttah with Urschel, when Urschel hasn't been healthy enough to play for weeks now. I've been surprised at how Jensen is just not being viewed as an option. I honestly thought he'd be the front runner going into camp to start at LG. Can only think he did not show well to the staff in camp.

[rmw10]

Too early to make that determination.  Lewis probably has a little more slack as a rookie learning the position, but Zuttah really needs to step it up.  It's tough though because Jensen isn't a great pass blocker, but I'd think he could really boost the run game a bit.  I'm not sure what the plan with Urschel is, but he seems to have fallen out of favor a bit as he's been a healthy scratch the past 2 weeks.

[rmcjacket23]

20 minutes ago, balfan23 said:

It is kind of hard to replace Zuttah with Urschel, when Urschel hasn't been healthy enough to play for weeks now. I've been surprised at how Jensen is just not being viewed as an option. I honestly thought he'd be the front runner going into camp to start at LG. Can only think he did not show well to the staff in camp.

This.

1. I believe Urschel practiced all week last week, so to me, it looks like he was a healthy scratch for week 2. Generally speaking, I don't see too many players going from healthy scratch to starter in a single week.

2. I agree that it seems clear that Urschel was very much beaten out by Lewis for the starting LG job, and I haven't seen Lewis play bad enough to warrant that change after what is basically like 3 weeks.

I have no idea what the pecking order at center is, but again, not a big enough sample size to make a change at this point. Zuttah was one of our better Olineman last season when healthy, so he's getting more slack than people think.

[PurpleCorsair]

5 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

This.

1. I believe Urschel practiced all week last week, so to me, it looks like he was a healthy scratch for week 2. Generally speaking, I don't see too many players going from healthy scratch to starter in a single week.

2. I agree that it seems clear that Urschel was very much beaten out by Lewis for the starting LG job, and I haven't seen Lewis play bad enough to warrant that change after what is basically like 3 weeks.

I have no idea what the pecking order at center is, but again, not a big enough sample size to make a change at this point. Zuttah was one of our better Olineman last season when healthy, so he's getting more slack than people think.

I was under the impression that Lewis got the job de-facto because Urschel was injured.

[rmcjacket23]

31 minutes ago, Daft Classic said:

I've been done with Zuttah since pretty much last season. He's not going to be here much longer anyways, and while we have a bit of a buffer at 2-0, we might as well start working in his younger, more capable replacement in hopefully Urschel. Lewis on the other hand I'd like to wait a little longer on. He is being thrown into the fire and picking up how to be a starting caliber guard on the fly. Give him another week or two to correct a few things, but if he doesn't get it together we can send Jensen out and Lewis can learn from the bench.

Essentially, We can't be much worse starting Urschel at Center over Zuttah, but we still have room to grow with Lewis at LG

By all accounts I've seen, Jensen is the current backup Center. Urschel worked almost exclusively at Guard in the preseason I believe.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, PurpleCorsair said:

I was under the impression that Lewis got the job de-facto because Urschel was injured.

Saw multiple reports prior to the Urschel injury that Lewis was giving great competition for the job.

Additionally, based on what I see, Urschel was healthy enough to play this week, and yet was a healthy scratch.

[rmw10]

9 minutes ago, PurpleCorsair said:

I was under the impression that Lewis got the job de-facto because Urschel was injured.

I think that opened up the door for Lewis to run away with it, but it had been a competition before that.  The injury didn't help Urschel but he's clearly fallen down the pecking order as a healthy inactive.

[757RavensFan]

I don't know if they'll make wholesale change with the interior line at this point.  Granted we have to do something to spark the run game, but at what expense?

We have to take in consideration we are still 2-0.  

[PurpleCity5]

1 minute ago, 757RavensFan said:

I don't know if they'll make wholesale change with the interior line at this point.  Granted we have to do something to spark the run game, but at what expense?

We have to take in consideration we are still 2-0.  

John is dissatisfied with the run game and rightfully so, I think our offense needs a run game because frankly it has looked atrocious as of now. I think when you look at it long term, you would have to consider it. 

[OUravensfan]

I'd like to see our running game with an advantageous formation as a starting point, let's cool it with the shotgun runs.

[AWOLFNATION]

I think that Lewis will be fine at LG, but I would like to see Urschel get a chance at C. Zuttah isn't cutting it right now.

[rmcjacket23]

11 minutes ago, AWOLFNATION said:

I think that Lewis will be fine at LG, but I would like to see Urschel get a chance at C. Zuttah isn't cutting it right now.

Again, still not sure why Ravens fans think Urschel is the backup center. 

By all accounts, the next in line for the center job is Jensen.

[Cawtious]

14 hours ago, Sami84 said:

I think Lewis has been thrown into the fire too early and in the running game in particular he's been awful. Combine that with zuttah and you have a recipe for NO run game. Jensen has been great at LG.Urschel should replace zuttah simply because he cant be worse than zuttah.

When John and Ryan were playing together last year, I think our left side was very competitive.  I watched Zuttah very carefully in this last game.  He was late getting to blocks, and seemed to lack vision and decisiveness as to where and who he should be blocking.  Looking at him, he seems to be lighter than last year.  He's getting pushed back often on pass pro, and is engaging on run blocks he does make, but does not sustain them long enough or continue to have the leverage to drive his man back.  We need a bigger center.  Jensen would get my nod right now.

[The Raven]

I'd replace Zuttah before Lewis. Keeping Lewis out there is at the very least an investment in the future, not to mention he has improved each week. Keeping Zuttah out there is a waste.

5 hours ago, OUravensfan said:

I'd like to see our running game with an advantageous formation as a starting point, let's cool it with the shotgun runs.

There's literally no issue with running the ball out of the gun whatsoever. The issue is Trestman's stupid love for misdirections and oppo's.

[Tank 92]

I'd be surprised if we don't see Jensen at center this week. I don't know if he's dinged or what, but Zuttah has been terrible in both games. And I think Lewis could benefit from having Jensen next to him. 

[PurpleCity5]

1 hour ago, The Raven said:

I'd replace Zuttah before Lewis. Keeping Lewis out there is at the very least an investment in the future, not to mention he has improved each week. Keeping Zuttah out there is a waste.

There's literally no issue with running the ball out of the gun whatsoever. The issue is Trestman's stupid love for misdirections and oppo's.

I remember a game against the Jets back in 2011 where the Jets pro bowler Nick Mangold was out and they were forced to plug in their back up Center and it screwed everything up. The snaps were off, the guy didn't protect well at all and there was a fumble off a bad snap as well. Well, that's the type of situation the Ravens would want to avoid which is why benching Zuttah is so tough. I really this Lewis is the odd man out in this case.

[ellicottraven]

I think we should leave Alex Lewis in there despite his learning curve. We need to accelerate his learning curve because he's a big, solid and strong guy. He's going to improve in his run blocking as he gets more snaps and understands his assignments better. As for Zuttah, he's had a bad spell at Center. I say keep the same line for the Jacksonville game and see if there are improvements and then make any changes. The only position that might be okay to change right now is Zuttah imo. But, he needs to be replaced with Jensen and not Urschel. Jensen is a mauler and is strong and nasty at the point of attack. He can help with the run game as well. Just my view.

[PurpleHorseman]

    I don't think Ducasse was given much opportunity.  Everybody kept saying lewis was this mauler. Yet power is his deficiency so far. I like Jensen to play. Then have lewis and Urschel compete for the remaining job. If urschel wins, he plays center and Jensen is the left guard. If Lewis wins then he is the LG and Jensen plays Center. This lineup probably gives us our most physical lineup. And best chance for success. 

[ALPHA]

I wonder if theres another reason behind Jensen being on the bench.

[jboy19]

I say wait until the bye week to try and shake things up. No sense throwing off the chemistry for what (most likely) isn't a huge upgrade. 

[Filmstudy]

There are reasons to replace Zuttah now, but I don't think it's imminent.  He scored as failing (high F) for me vs the Bills, but recovered to a C versus a tough opponent, Danny Shelton in week 2.  Based on Urschel's play last year at center I definitely wouldn't see a reason to switch Urschel in at C right now.  Jensen might be a better option against bigger opponents, but again, I think we're weeks away.

As to Lewis, you're watching a different game than me if you really think he's played poorly.  He's been challenged, but graded a C both weeks and I think it's clear he has earned extended leash by his play.  Do you folks remember who this team has had as replacements at guard in past years:  Gurode, Reid, Harewood, Shipley.  THOSE were bad guards.  Even Jensen, who showed flashes vs. Pitt last season, played worse at guard last year than Lewis has this year, and it's not close.

My articles on RSR are specific about scoring for blocking, but I also started doing a podcast this season on OL grading which you can find here.  It's at a 1,000 foot level and the segment on Alex Lewis is between 12:30 and 15:00 and has a significant component related to his mobility.  

https://audioboom.com/boos/5073794-locked-on-ravens-9-20-16-ken-mckusick-offensive-grades?t=0

[BmoreBird22]

I think the struggles we see with Lewis are he's probably like 4" taller than the average guard. He just doesn't have the natural leverage or low center of gravity that the DT's he's facing often will. I think that's why you might not see him excel in the run game to this point. He just can't get low enough to generate a good push, I'd imagine. Conversely, I think that length will really help him in the passing game because he can get those long arms out there and lock onto his man with distance and space and give himself the ability to direct the way his man moves.

At center, I'm not opposed to Jensen replacing Zuttah, but I think there is something to be said for chemistry along the offensive line. That's why in the Pro Bowl (I know, I know), you'll see defensive lineman win more than they lose. You have the best lineman in the NFL on offense, yet they're getting beat badly because they've had a week to work with each other and even then, it's very relaxed.

I don't want to see Urschel in there. He's been a healthy scratch for two weeks in a row for a reason. He's very smart and understands technique/leverage very well, but there's only so much you can do when you're extremely athletically limited.

[flynismo]

As much as I like Urschel, the person, after seeing what he did in limited time last season at center, I am less than impressed. Starting him over Zuttah would likely be a side step, at best. Jensen is our backup center anyway...

Keep Lewis in there. I don't see a better alternative, and he needs the reps; he does have potential. People should also keep in mind that he is an OT who is playing out of position; we drafted him for his pass protection skills

[JoeyFlex5]

Ravens fans seriously overrate urschel. Moving from zuttah to urschel is on par with moving from gino to Shipley.