Maxx Williams

[jboy19]

Maxx probably isn't headed to IR quite yet. He probably gets a couple inactive weeks since Waller is likely to take Forsett's roster spot. 

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, jboy19 said:

Maxx probably isn't headed to IR quite yet. He probably gets a couple inactive weeks since Waller is likely to take Forsett's roster spot. 

Maybe. Waller is taking Forsett's roster spot, but if Dixon is going to be active on gamedays now, either they deactivate Allen and go with 2 RBs, or somebody else has to be inactive. That would likely be between Waller and Maxx, since I doubt they carry 4 TEs on the gameday roster.

That might work while Maxx is hurt, but frankly, I don't see the point. If he's going to be out like 3-4 weeks, I don't think we have the luxury of keeping a 3rd or 4th TE as a gameday inactive. Historically, those kinds of players go on IR. Because once he's back healthy, its still going to be the same problem... which one of those two guys is inactive on gamedays?

Given he's the 3rd TE right now who's only playing 20% of offensive snaps, he's basically a ST player, and so whoever the team thinks is the better ST player between Maxx and Waller is the one who should be active on Sunday's. Waller was an excellent ST player last year, so I would think he would be the choice.

I guess we really need to know more about Maxx's injury, but I find it hard to justify him being a unhealthy inactive for a month. I just don't see the added value there.

[jboy19]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Maybe. Waller is taking Forsett's roster spot, but if Dixon is going to be active on gamedays now, either they deactivate Allen and go with 2 RBs, or somebody else has to be inactive. That would likely be between Waller and Maxx, since I doubt they carry 4 TEs on the gameday roster.

That might work while Maxx is hurt, but frankly, I don't see the point. If he's going to be out like 3-4 weeks, I don't think we have the luxury of keeping a 3rd or 4th TE as a gameday inactive. Historically, those kinds of players go on IR. Because once he's back healthy, its still going to be the same problem... which one of those two guys is inactive on gamedays?

Given he's the 3rd TE right now who's only playing 20% of offensive snaps, he's basically a ST player, and so whoever the team thinks is the better ST player between Maxx and Waller is the one who should be active on Sunday's. Waller was an excellent ST player last year, so I would think he would be the choice.

I guess we really need to know more about Maxx's injury, but I find it hard to justify him being a unhealthy inactive for a month. I just don't see the added value there.

I'm assuming that Maxx's injury isn't too serious and that he'll be back from it in a couple weeks. I think that Waller being the 3rd TE is an unideal situation since we've really only used Maxx as a blocker (which he's done a great job at). Waller's value imo is still more as a WR (since he basically was a WR during most of his preseason snaps) and ST player, even if he's technically listed as a TE. If both are healthy, I think there's a place for both of them, in fact I think if Waller comes back and lights it up on ST the player most likely to slide onto the inactive list (in the event of either a Maxx recovery or Boyle activation) would be either Kamar Aiken or Chris Moore. 

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, jboy19 said:

I'm assuming that Maxx's injury isn't too serious and that he'll be back from it in a couple weeks. I think that Waller being the 3rd TE is an unideal situation since we've really only used Maxx as a blocker (which he's done a great job at). Waller's value imo is still more as a WR (since he basically was a WR during most of his preseason snaps) and ST player, even if he's technically listed as a TE. If both are healthy, I think there's a place for both of them, in fact I think if Waller comes back and lights it up on ST the player most likely to slide onto the inactive list (in the event of either a Maxx recovery or Boyle activation) would be either Kamar Aiken or Chris Moore. 

Right but its pretty clear that Maxx isn't going to be used as a pass catcher this season unless an injury occurs. He's gotten zero targets so far. From what I can tell, his usage this season on offense is almost strictly as a blocker, and he's playing about half of the ST snaps. Obviously, when you're low man on the depth chart like he is, ST is key. 

Would definitely think its more likely we carry 5 WRs on gameday than it is we carry 4 TEs.

[VermontRaven]

33 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Maybe. Waller is taking Forsett's roster spot, but if Dixon is going to be active on gamedays now, either they deactivate Allen and go with 2 RBs, or somebody else has to be inactive. That would likely be between Waller and Maxx, since I doubt they carry 4 TEs on the gameday roster.

That might work while Maxx is hurt, but frankly, I don't see the point. If he's going to be out like 3-4 weeks, I don't think we have the luxury of keeping a 3rd or 4th TE as a gameday inactive. Historically, those kinds of players go on IR. Because once he's back healthy, its still going to be the same problem... which one of those two guys is inactive on gamedays?

Given he's the 3rd TE right now who's only playing 20% of offensive snaps, he's basically a ST player, and so whoever the team thinks is the better ST player between Maxx and Waller is the one who should be active on Sunday's. Waller was an excellent ST player last year, so I would think he would be the choice.

I guess we really need to know more about Maxx's injury, but I find it hard to justify him being a unhealthy inactive for a month. I just don't see the added value there.

Depends on how much they value Williams for blocking and ST.  Wildcard would be to inactivate Aiken...would put us at 4 WR (5 if you count Hester) but Waller could play there in a pinch

[Rav'n Maniac]

40 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Maybe. Waller is taking Forsett's roster spot, but if Dixon is going to be active on gamedays now, either they deactivate Allen and go with 2 RBs, or somebody else has to be inactive. That would likely be between Waller and Maxx, since I doubt they carry 4 TEs on the gameday roster.

That might work while Maxx is hurt, but frankly, I don't see the point. If he's going to be out like 3-4 weeks, I don't think we have the luxury of keeping a 3rd or 4th TE as a gameday inactive. Historically, those kinds of players go on IR. Because once he's back healthy, its still going to be the same problem... which one of those two guys is inactive on gamedays?

Given he's the 3rd TE right now who's only playing 20% of offensive snaps, he's basically a ST player, and so whoever the team thinks is the better ST player between Maxx and Waller is the one who should be active on Sunday's. Waller was an excellent ST player last year, so I would think he would be the choice.

I guess we really need to know more about Maxx's injury, but I find it hard to justify him being a unhealthy inactive for a month. I just don't see the added value there.

To piggyback on that from what Harb's said that it's a cartilage issue he's been dealing with for some time. His options are to continue playing & deal with the pain or have fixed. I would think it's better to have it fixed now while we have bodies to fill in, especially considering the playing time he's getting.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

To piggyback on that from what Harb's said that it's a cartilage issue he's been dealing with for some time. His options are to continue playing & deal with the pain or have fixed. I would think it's better to have it fixed now while we have bodies to fill in, especially considering the playing time he's getting.

Yeah and he left the game early on Sunday, which likely means some sort of aggravation to me. 

[rmcjacket23]

15 minutes ago, VermontRaven said:

Depends on how much they value Williams for blocking and ST.  Wildcard would be to inactivate Aiken...would put us at 4 WR (5 if you count Hester) but Waller could play there in a pinch

I think you'd see Moore inactive before Aiken. Aiken's been playing more offensive snaps and Moore hasn't played much at all on ST. A 4th WR has to contribute significantly on ST. 

In theory, Moore is sort of the same player in terms of skill sets as Wallace/Perriman, but behind both. Aiken is sort of the direct backup to Steve Smith, and it appeared Aiken played more in week 4 than in previous weeks.

Just my guess.

[VermontRaven]

17 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I think you'd see Moore inactive before Aiken. Aiken's been playing more offensive snaps and Moore hasn't played much at all on ST. A 4th WR has to contribute significantly on ST. 

In theory, Moore is sort of the same player in terms of skill sets as Wallace/Perriman, but behind both. Aiken is sort of the direct backup to Steve Smith, and it appeared Aiken played more in week 4 than in previous weeks.

Just my guess.

I certainly see your argument.  However, you could argue that after last game, Aiken isn't getting it done on special teams or on offense (with those increased snaps).  If Waller can replace Aiken's special team duties, I think it is a possibility Aiken become inactive. (Moore is definitely a possibility to be inactive too)  Moore did play some as a kick returner in preseason so that might be one reason to keep him active if something were to happen to Hester (I know Dixon did as well though)  It depends on what is going on in practice, etc.  Aiken obviously had a horrible game, but if the Ravens feel he can contribute more than Moore, he would certainly get the nod.

[trevorsteadman]

1 hour ago, VermontRaven said:

I certainly see your argument.  However, you could argue that after last game, Aiken isn't getting it done on special teams or on offense (with those increased snaps).  If Waller can replace Aiken's special team duties, I think it is a possibility Aiken become inactive. (Moore is definitely a possibility to be inactive too)  Moore did play some as a kick returner in preseason so that might be one reason to keep him active if something were to happen to Hester (I know Dixon did as well though)  It depends on what is going on in practice, etc.  Aiken obviously had a horrible game, but if the Ravens feel he can contribute more than Moore, he would certainly get the nod.

And Moore is getting it done on offense? How many balls has bounced off his two hands this season? He drops the ball more than he catches it.

[ravensnj]

9 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I wouldn't throw in the towel on Maxx yet for his career.

We owe Watson $3M next season, which I doubt we keep him around for that, especially coming off that type of injury, and Pitta is due $5.5M, which I'm not convinced we will pay either. 

He could easily be a top 2-3 TE on this team heading into next season. He obviously doesn't look like he's going to be a Pitta-level producer in the near future, but he still has another year or two to figure it out.

Don't forget Boyle. If he can lay off the PED's , he might turn out as our best receiving Te in a year or two.

[ravensnj]

9 hours ago, Ravens4Real said:

Maxx has been a MASSIVE disappointment so far in his career. Expected so much more out of him than he is giving.

I wouldn't put it passed him to bulk up a little more and become an o-lineman. His dad played admirable for the Giants on the o-line and he appears to have the fight in the trenches, if he can stay healthy.

[RavensDE]

I can't imagine we would send Maxx to IR so soon in the season.  He's worth the roster spot as an inactive.  It's a long grueling season and I'm happy to see his blocking has improved even if he isn't getting targeted on his limited number of routes.  If and when Boyle comes back (Game 11) he would likely push Waller to the practice squad, but who knows what the injury situation looks like then.  He can catch and he has good speed (that Boyle does not have) but given that he has become a better blocker why wouldn't we keep him on the roster as an inactive for a month?  It's not like we have someone waiting in the wings that we can expect to come out and contribute right away.  Now if we take injuries at a specific position where we don't want to place those guys on IR for whatever reason I could see it happening, but I don't see the large opportunity cost of keeping him on the roster.  It isn't like we already filled our inactive list with injured players.  We aren't in a position yet where we are struggling to get players at each position.    

 

 

Edit/Update: I was wrong.  Either the injury was more serious than we know or that roster spot was that important to us.  As far as receiving tight ends, the two additions to the active roster in Waller and Brown shouldn't have much of a problem.  In terms of blocking after Crocket Gilmore we don't really have a great blocker out there.  Looking back I was perplexed when the team activated Brown off the practice squad when we knew Waller was coming back from suspension.  I'm still a bit thrown off by that move, but given Maxx Williams has been put on the IR shelf and Waller was also signed it makes a bit more sense.  

Edited October 12, 2016 by RavensDE
Edit/Update

[GrimCoconut]

20 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I think you'd see Moore inactive before Aiken. Aiken's been playing more offensive snaps and Moore hasn't played much at all on ST. A 4th WR has to contribute significantly on ST. 

In theory, Moore is sort of the same player in terms of skill sets as Wallace/Perriman, but behind both. Aiken is sort of the direct backup to Steve Smith, and it appeared Aiken played more in week 4 than in previous weeks.

Just my guess.

I think that's possible but I'm not sure, either. Waller was doing good things on ST last year before his injury and I recall him having a role in preseason this year, too. I recall Waller looking pretty good as a gunner last year. We'll see if that continues this year but I wouldn't discount the idea of Aiken being inactive. He looked terrible against Oakland and someone said in the game thread I think that it could be him trying to do too much. If Aiken feels like Waller is breathing down his neck since he's about to come off suspension that would explain his anxiety to make plays. Could also be more likely that Aiken just wants more playing time, too, and less  about Waller. I think that's more likely myself but both are certainly possible. 

Edited October 5, 2016 by GrimCoconut
Auto correct thought I typed choke instead of come. I hate this thing sometimes.

[PurpleCity5]

31 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I think that's possible but I'm not sure, either. Waller was doing good things on ST last year before his injury and I recall him having a role in preseason this year, too. I recall Waller looking pretty good as a gunner last year. We'll see if that continues this year but I wouldn't discount the idea of Aiken being inactive. He looked terrible against Oakland and someone said in the game thread I think that it could be him trying to do too much. If Aiken feels like Waller is breathing down his neck since he's about to choke off suspension that would explain his anxiety to make plays. Could also be more likely that Aiken just wants more playing time, too, and less  about Waller. I think that's more likely myself but both are certainly possible. 

I don't see Waller having much of a role here. I mean who are you going to deactivate? We had to deactivate Judon last game with Doom returning. I think this team would love to have Judon out there. Not to mention Waller won't be high on Joe's list of targets as well. If Maxx Williams will be out for some time, then I would rather see Judon in than Waller personally. Do you think it's possible the team might just bench Aiken in favor of Waller? He was awful last game. 

[Passepartout]

It seems that Maxx was suppose to be big. But now really it is however, hard to see it for now if it is a bust. Just hope that he can rebound. Contracts are not guaranteed and he could be cut at any second like Fossett was.

[trevorsteadman]

9 hours ago, Passepartout said:

It seems that Maxx was suppose to be big. But now really it is however, hard to see it for now if it is a bust. Just hope that he can rebound. Contracts are not guaranteed and he could be cut at any second like Fossett was.

Forsett*....

Second Maxx Williams was drafted when he was 20 years old. He is only 22 at the moment. He needs time for his body to develop to the intensity of the game. Drafting him we all knew he would be about 3 seasons for him to make an impact. He still showed last season as a rookie he could start on another team. Problem is he is not as good as Pitta and Gilmore.

Completely different with Forsett. He was past 30 in a position not many play that long. You could tell he has no burst at all and couldn't break tackles. Maxx Williams as a blocker has done great thus far. Maxx Williams the pass catcher is a development, as most receivers 'break-out' in year 3 or 4 of the NFL. Very rarely does a rookie wide receiver ever start out as a #1 target. A long with Perriman, I think he can develop into a break out receiver but I don't see him in more than a situational role for the next two years. That is just how it works out with most receivers. 

[rmcjacket23]

12 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

Forsett*....

Second Maxx Williams was drafted when he was 20 years old. He is only 22 at the moment. He needs time for his body to develop to the intensity of the game. Drafting him we all knew he would be about 3 seasons for him to make an impact. He still showed last season as a rookie he could start on another team. Problem is he is not as good as Pitta and Gilmore.

Completely different with Forsett. He was past 30 in a position not many play that long. You could tell he has no burst at all and couldn't break tackles. Maxx Williams as a blocker has done great thus far. Maxx Williams the pass catcher is a development, as most receivers 'break-out' in year 3 or 4 of the NFL. Very rarely does a rookie wide receiver ever start out as a #1 target. A long with Perriman, I think he can develop into a break out receiver but I don't see him in more than a situational role for the next two years. That is just how it works out with most receivers. 

Agree. Maxx is in no jeopardy of getting cut. Frankly, somebody like Waller would be cut before him.

Still want to know more about Maxx's injury situation. Still think there's a good chance he ends up on IR if its like a 3-4 week or more injury.

[GrimCoconut]

10 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I don't see Waller having much of a role here. I mean who are you going to deactivate? We had to deactivate Judon last game with Doom returning. I think this team would love to have Judon out there. Not to mention Waller won't be high on Joe's list of targets as well. If Maxx Williams will be out for some time, then I would rather see Judon in than Waller personally. Do you think it's possible the team might just bench Aiken in favor of Waller? He was awful last game. 

I think Waller has a role. We seemed to feature him a lot to see what he can do in preseason so I think he has a role. He can be that deep threat TE we simply don't have. I'm not really sure one way or another that we'd bench Aiken for Waller, but I was also surprised we benched and cut JF so quickly so it seems we will make quick changes if we see a reason. I wouldn't count out the possibility.

[GrimCoconut]

6 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Agree. Maxx is in no jeopardy of getting cut. Frankly, somebody like Waller would be cut before him.

Still want to know more about Maxx's injury situation. Still think there's a good chance he ends up on IR if its like a 3-4 week or more injury.

I think there's a good chance you're right. I can see the team keep Williams around and I'd have no issue with that since it's fine to hold a guy if you think he'll recover but we may want more OL so that complicates it. That said, Williams seems to be a favorite in line blocker and I think that helps him. 

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, GrimCoconut said:

I think there's a good chance you're right. I can see the team keep Williams around and I'd have no issue with that since it's fine to hold a guy if you think he'll recover but we may want more OL so that complicates it. That said, Williams seems to be a favorite in line blocker and I think that helps him. 

I'm hoping somebody who does game study will know how often Maxx is in as a blocker. I have the same general belief, but then I look at the snap counts, and he's only playing like 18% of offensive snaps, so he simply can't be in as a blocker that often. He only played 10 offensive snaps against Oakland out of 89.

Gillmore's numbers are way higher, so it would seem to me that he is the preferred in-line TE right now, but I could be wrong. He played 42 snaps on Sunday, so almost half.

Would seem to think that if we really thought Maxx was our #1 in-line TE, he would be playing more than 10 snaps a game.

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I'm hoping somebody who does game study will know how often Maxx is in as a blocker. I have the same general belief, but then I look at the snap counts, and he's only playing like 18% of offensive snaps, so he simply can't be in as a blocker that often. He only played 10 offensive snaps against Oakland out of 89.

Gillmore's numbers are way higher, so it would seem to me that he is the preferred in-line TE right now, but I could be wrong. He played 42 snaps on Sunday, so almost half.

Would seem to think that if we really thought Maxx was our #1 in-line TE, he would be playing more than 10 snaps a game.

Well, Maxx did get injured, so that does factor into the 10 snaps on Sunday, BUT...

Gillmore just brings a different dynamic to the offense. I don't think he's as good of a blocker as Maxx, but he's a vastly different type of receiver.

I see Maxx and Pitta as fairly similar receivers and there's not really a need for two tight ends flexing out who do the exact same job.

[GrimCoconut]

3 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I'm hoping somebody who does game study will know how often Maxx is in as a blocker. I have the same general belief, but then I look at the snap counts, and he's only playing like 18% of offensive snaps, so he simply can't be in as a blocker that often. He only played 10 offensive snaps against Oakland out of 89.

Gillmore's numbers are way higher, so it would seem to me that he is the preferred in-line TE right now, but I could be wrong. He played 42 snaps on Sunday, so almost half.

Would seem to think that if we really thought Maxx was our #1 in-line TE, he would be playing more than 10 snaps a game.

That's true. I think we want to develop Williams and that's part of it. People need to be patient with TE because they don't always come out and kill it. He may never be what we want him to be, but he has the potential to get there and he's still pretty young so he can improve. 

[rmcjacket23]

4 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Well, Maxx did get injured, so that does factor into the 10 snaps on Sunday, BUT...

Gillmore just brings a different dynamic to the offense. I don't think he's as good of a blocker as Maxx, but he's a vastly different type of receiver.

I see Maxx and Pitta as fairly similar receivers and there's not really a need for two tight ends flexing out who do the exact same job.

Do we know what part of the game he was injured in?

[BmoreBird22]

5 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Do we know what part of the game he was injured in?

I thought first half, maybe second quarter, but I'm not entirely sure. I know the Ravens tweeted about it, so let me see if I can find their time stamp.

I looked it up and it said 11:55 AM, but I'm EST, so there's no way that's right...

Edited October 5, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[Militant X 1]

On 9/18/2016 at 5:26 PM, JoeyFlex5 said:

What rmw said. He smeared the hell out of somebody today as well. He's done very well as a blocker so he's seeing the field. 

The problem is, pitta is out there. We all know that if Joe needs a tight catch he's going to pitta, not maxx. And if pitta is doing well then I'm fine with it 

I think maxx is gonna be good one day, he just isn't the top receiving TE at the moment.

Great point!

[jboy19]

Just saw Daniel Brown got elevated to the 53 man roster. Intriguing to me. Thought Waller would have been the one activated, but they do still have a week to do that and might want more practice out of him. Not sure about what Brown offers on ST or as a blocker, but it's intriguing none the less to see him on the roster- probably a sign that Maxx won't be active this week. 

[Rav'n Maniac]

16 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

Just saw Daniel Brown got elevated to the 53 man roster. Intriguing to me. Thought Waller would have been the one activated, but they do still have a week to do that and might want more practice out of him. Not sure about what Brown offers on ST or as a blocker, but it's intriguing none the less to see him on the roster- probably a sign that Maxx won't be active this week. 

Just saw that as well. Seems they signed Kenny Bell to the PS.

[ravensnj]

2 hours ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

Just saw that as well. Seems they signed Kenny Bell to the PS.

Brown can catch the ball and can block. Seems like Williams is headed to the pup list.

[VermontRaven]

Just now, ravensnj said:

Brown can catch the ball and can block. Seems like Williams is headed to the pup list.

Can't go on PUP, but very well could be headed to IR