The annual Fire Dean Pees thread; 2016 edition

[Ravensfan23]

12 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

most fans are clueless about situational football.

people simply dont understand that a good or bad call is directly tied to execution.

good execution can make a bad call look good and bad execution will make a good call look bad.

a bad call with bad execution will turn into a big play for the other team and a good call with good execution will turn into a big play for you.

 

Certainly. I tell people all time that the game is so much  more fascinating then the highlights show. Because of the fantasy aspect of the game, the broadcast tends to lean towards highlights and big plays but there are so many battles on each play. But I did think Chris Simms did a pretty good job calling the game. 

[terps85]

Would you rather have had Coleman single covered? It's not Pees' fault the edge rushers are not generating any pressure at all.  

[hen826957]

That play on 4th & 4 when Shareece Wright was 10 yards off the reciever really question Dean Pees play calling. Why on earth you play off the receiver 10 yards when they only need four yards for a first down? I seen it clearly live when this happen and Coleman had a lot of space for the first down. In that moment, l knew that McCown was gonna throw his way. All he needed to do was a slant; it was way too easy. It's seems like they wanted them to get the first down. SMH. In that situation, Shareece should've played man coverage or press. 

[JoeyFlex5]

39 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Again we're talking about situational football and results. You really don't worry about the Browns racking up yards in that situation because you are defending against a TD not a FG. It's not abandoning your gameplan, it's playing situational football. It's the same as saying, oh the offense is moving the ball well by running and hitting play action, why all of the sudden switch up and go uptempo/no huddle in 2 minute? Because it's what the situation called for. 

The biggest play on that final drive was a 16 yard play to Hawkins. Again it was 4th and 3 when the Coleman play happened. The players were in position to just MAKE THE TACKLE!!!! if they make the tackle in bounds with 27 seconds and the clock running, the Browns are scrambling to get everyone set and you'll probably run another 7-10 seconds. But that didn't happen, they got out of bounds and was able to huddle up to regroup. 

The idea in that situation is to use the field as an extra defender. Once they called their final timeout, you basically give them the middle of the field so completed passes runs more clock. Once they get down near the 30, you can use the endzone as an extra defender because it'll be tougher to get behind the coverage and again any catch in bounds runs more clock with less than 20 seconds to play. Once you get them down there, you basically know their only option is endzone, so now you can dail up pressure and cover the goaline, exactly what happened on the final play. 

That defensive strategy was perfect by Pees, it's just nerve reckon for us fans because the games on the line and we see yards being racked up. But if guys do their job, which CJ did, you'll usually have positive results. 

I understand situational football, but it was TOO conservative, I'm not saying send the house in that situation, but the defense was playing way too far off. Dink and dunk doesn't get you to the red zone from a touchback in less than 2 minutes football time. They weren't dink and dunking us, Mccown had time to throw and was attacking the intermediate and the problem there is that we were giving up big chunks, if not for that b.s. flag on Pryor they woukdve been inside the 10 and it happened in the blink of an eye.

Sure, you can place a lot of the blame on the missed tackle in coleman, but they were driving before that, and then they dropped another one on us the following play. Mccown had time, throughout the whole game his throws were rushed and we saw the effect. At the end he had all day to throw and our coverage was too soft and he cruised down the field. That style of defense only works if you are forcing them to take the small plays, which only works with rushed throws, when you give the qb time and your coverage is deep, they find the soft spots for big chunks. 

It goes beyond situational football or execution, it's common sense. You don't give the qb time to throw in the pocket, and don't scheme open zones deep down the field. There's no situation in football that calls for that kinda stuff.

[Steve0x]

Heres who i like to see As Offensive  coordinator 

Jimbo Fisher 

Heres who i like to see As defensive coordinator 

Bob Stoops

[The Raven]

23 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

Heres who i like to see As Offensive  coordinator 

Jimbo Fisher 

Heres who i like to see As defensive coordinator 

Bob Stoops

Ya wanna tell us why you like them or do you just want us to be impressed that you can post photos?

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

So Leslie Frazier coaches the secondary right? And which unit of the defense do you think was the worst today by a wide margin?

So we're going to replace Pees with the head of the unit that I think is quite easily the worst unit on our defense?

I mean I like Leslie Frazier, but just find it ironic that as much as we bash assistant coaches for their units, we're so quick to promote somebody from a unit that I think is the worst on our defense.

Strikes me as odd...

The secondary was the best unit last week. 

Im not for firing Pees and hiring Frazier... 

Seems everyone, no matter which side of the coin you fall on, are falling victim to over-emphasizing the week to week results of games. 

The secondary was great week 1 across the board, yet struggled at times this week but they're definitely the worst unit on the team?

The D dominates all last week, and for 3 quarters today minus a few plays on the last drive and Pees needs to go again?

Lets all relax for a bit and give the team some time. Lots of rookie, FA and returning injured players playing big roles for this team. By week 6 if people still feel the same way then fine... but I don't want to fall victim to the moment. 

For about 7 quarters of this young season were statistically the best defense in football. Id love perfection too, and that 8th quarter was REALLY REALLY bad.... but were 2-0 and for the majority of both games the D has been stingy, hard hitting and near shut out. 

[Steve0x]

Just now, The Raven said:

Ya wanna tell us why you like them or do you just want us to be impressed that you can post photos?

Yea..Jimbo Fisher will explain the plays to younger players. Plus he's a QB coach Haubaugh would get along with Jimbo fisher. Bob Stoops is a no nonsense coach. He will not put up with defensive players making mistakes. He simply will not tolerate it. If you miss a tackle oh boy he will jump all over on you!

[GrimCoconut]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

So Leslie Frazier coaches the secondary right? And which unit of the defense do you think was the worst today by a wide margin?

So we're going to replace Pees with the head of the unit that I think is quite easily the worst unit on our defense?

I mean I like Leslie Frazier, but just find it ironic that as much as we bash assistant coaches for their units, we're so quick to promote somebody from a unit that I think is the worst on our defense.

Strikes me as odd...

Not sure the secondary was the worst unit. I am not even being sarcastic here. We were getting run on pretty well here and the OLBs certainly contributed to that. The interior of the defense was clearly the best unit on the field. After that, it's kinda hard to say who was the worst unit.

[The Raven]

8 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

Yea..Jimbo Fisher will explain the plays to younger players. Plus he's a QB coach Haubaugh would get along with Jimbo fisher. Bob Stoops is a no nonsense coach. He will not put up with defensive players making mistakes. He simply will not tolerate it. If you miss a tackle oh boy he will jump all over on you!

So, Trestman doesn't explain plays to players? Pees tolerates missed tackles? Got it. Thanks for sharing.

[rmcjacket23]

23 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Not sure the secondary was the worst unit. I am not even being sarcastic here. We were getting run on pretty well here and the OLBs certainly contributed to that. The interior of the defense was clearly the best unit on the field. After that, it's kinda hard to say who was the worst unit.

Disagree on the run part. It was basically one play where the entire defense broke down.

We were pretty outstanding against the run save for that one play. On par or maybe even slightly better than we were last week.

[rmcjacket23]

26 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

Yea..Jimbo Fisher will explain the plays to younger players. Plus he's a QB coach Haubaugh would get along with Jimbo fisher. Bob Stoops is a no nonsense coach. He will not put up with defensive players making mistakes. He simply will not tolerate it. If you miss a tackle oh boy he will jump all over on you!

LOL, not tolerating something means it actually stops.

Bob Stoops yells at his players a lot, and yet they still make a lot of the same mistakes? Why? Because they're college players, most of which will never play pro ball, and they make mistakes.

Yelling and screaming only gets you so far. Certainly far from proven that it actually impacts production positively.

[rmcjacket23]

56 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

Heres who i like to see As Offensive  coordinator 

Jimbo Fisher 

Heres who i like to see As defensive coordinator 

Bob Stoops

Both of these guys would be taking paycuts and arguably demotions to come be Professional coordinators.

Not happening.

[GrimCoconut]

4 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Disagree on the run part. It was basically one play where the entire defense broke down.

We were pretty outstanding against the run save for that one play. On par or maybe even slightly better than we were last week.

You're right. I was wrong there. I remembered it differently, perhaps my memory was skewed due to that long run. I looked it up and the play-by-play supports what you say. 

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, GrimCoconut said:

You're right. I was wrong there. I remembered it differently, perhaps my memory was skewed due to that long run. I looked it up and the play-by-play supports what you say. 

It'll be the trendy topic for the next few days. People will claim we got gashed by the run, mostly by people who exclusively went to the box score for their full analysis.

Numbers do lie sometimes. Just like for the last 3 quarters, we pretty much dominated every phase of football and were very good on defense as well.

[Steve0x]

11 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Both of these guys would be taking paycuts and arguably demotions to come be Professional coordinators.

Not happening.

Well its an opportunity to get in the NFL. If they do well they might become head coaches on an NFL team.Remember Jimmy Johnson? He was on Miami Hurricanes won 2 national championships. Then He became Dallas Cowboys head coach turned that team around and won the super bowl.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Steve0x

[FlocksGottaFeed]

6 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

Well its an opportunity to get in the NFL. If they do well they might become head coaches on an NFL team.

Most likely it's never going to happen and with more proven NFL assistants already in place - it's more and more unlikely.

Edited September 19, 2016 by jkm5bmore
never

[rmcjacket23]

7 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

Well its an opportunity to get in the NFL. If they do well they might become head coaches on an NFL team.Remember Jimmy Johnson? He was on Miami Hurricanes won 2 national championships. Then He became Dallas Cowboys head coach turned that team around and won the super bowl.

LOL, your own argument is validating mine.

Jimmy Johnson went from being a Head Coach in College to being a HEAD COACH in the Pros. He was never a coordinator in the NFL. Same thing with Chip Kelly.

If either one of those guys wanted to come to the NFL, they'd take one of the half dozen or more HC gigs that become available on an annual basis. They aren't taking a coordinator gig... its below them.

[52520Andrew]

Overall, I don't like the way Pees calls games during the final drive and I have made that known for quite a while(dating back to the Chargers game in 2014). I still think it is too early to judge the defense after 2 games though and my opinion on Pees hasn't been swayed all that much yet from where it was last year(not a fan of him but we will see what he can do this year).

[JoeyFlex5]

46 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

The secondary was the best unit last week. 

Im not for firing Pees and hiring Frazier... 

Seems everyone, no matter which side of the coin you fall on, are falling victim to over-emphasizing the week to week results of games. 

The secondary was great week 1 across the board, yet struggled at times this week but they're definitely the worst unit on the team?

The D dominates all last week, and for 3 quarters today minus a few plays on the last drive and Pees needs to go again?

Lets all relax for a bit and give the team some time. Lots of rookie, FA and returning injured players playing big roles for this team. By week 6 if people still feel the same way then fine... but I don't want to fall victim to the moment. 

For about 7 quarters of this young season were statistically the best defense in football. Id love perfection too, and that 8th quarter was REALLY REALLY bad.... but were 2-0 and for the majority of both games the D has been stingy, hard hitting and near shut out. 

BUT... the secondary was also horrible last year, and the year before, and while its still bad(at least it was at times this week) this year, it looks quite a bit improved. some of that could fall on jimmy getting further away from his surgery, some could fall on weddle and webb at safety, and im sure some of it should fall on frazier too. 

its not like frazier came in and ruined our seocndary, hes making a somewhat respectable unit out of what was formerly a unquestioned dumpster fire. 

also, the secondary didnt look bad for most of the game, we were REALLY off in the first quarter across the board, secondary included, and from that point on the secondary was fine, the final drive is where it came off the rails, and i refuse to believe its all execution when it has happened over and over again for years with 2 different teams. 

we are playing extremely well for nearly 3 whole quarters with pressure dialed up and standard coverage, and then in the final drive, the PLAYERS didnt change, the secondary didnt change, what did change was the playcalling, the secondary had to cover for a whole second or 2 longer than they had been because we dialed back the pressure which was the primary reason our defense was dominating in the first place, but then when those play calls let them march right into the redzone in less than 2 minutes, the players are to blame? i dont think so. things like missed tackles in the secondary, slip ups in coverage, getting beat on a double or even triple move, thats the kind of stuff that happens when the qb has that much time to throw.

[JoeyFlex5]

59 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

Yea..Jimbo Fisher will explain the plays to younger players. Plus he's a QB coach Haubaugh would get along with Jimbo fisher. Bob Stoops is a no nonsense coach. He will not put up with defensive players making mistakes. He simply will not tolerate it. If you miss a tackle oh boy he will jump all over on you!

theyre college kids and these are grown men. 

college coaching jobs are often preferred, it allows for a totalitarian style of coaching, look at harbaugh, saban, miles, paterno, these guys are/were gods among men in their programs, in the NFL the head coach is just part of the program. look at chip kelly, if his stint in SF fails he will be ringing college phones off the hook looking for another job because his coaching style fits in college, where he can run his system regardless of competition because its always gonna work and he has no interference from the front office.

[RavensFanMania]

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

He got his act together. I'm losing patience but he still needs to find his groove.

Dean pees has had enough time and he finds his groove all the time and then abandons the groove and leaves us scratching our heads.

Also I'm starting to wonder how much of the blame should be placed on harbaughs emphasis on feeding forsett. He needs to see the bench and never leave it.

I'm hoping when Dixon gets back, the force feeding of Forsett ends.

[redrum52]

3 hours ago, The Raven said:

Pees called a great game -- again -- aside from the last drive. And the Browns' success on that drive has a lot more to do with our complete inability to get pressure with four. We desperately need Doom back. We need ZDS and Judon to get up to speed. 

Thought the interior guys did a good job but outside we need help.  Most of the plays made was on the players, I think..

 

Seasons now in full effect.  A Flacco thread, fire Pees and already calling for Trestman's head.

[52liveforever]

2 hours ago, The Raven said:

Dude, not even close. Aside from ONE play, which was the fault of our inside backers, our run D was stellar.

How many sacks and hits did ZDS and Judon get? They aren't getting regular pressure by any means. Jernigan had more pressures and hits than both of them.

Dude they were getting outside way too much. Inside yes we stomped them except for the one play where Orr seemed to run right into the guard. I don't even think the guard moved. He gets a pass as that's really the only thing from him I haven't liked.

 

Dude go back and look. Judon and ZDS are seriously a step or two away from a sack on a lot of plays. I think Judon is closer than ZDS, but I'm telling you they are getting back there. 

Honestly Jernigan has been around longer so I hope he's doing better than them. its week 2. I'm confident both finish the year with 6+ sacks. Hold me to it.

[jdynamite]

The way this season is starting 2 former Ravens DC could be available by seasons end. Pagano with colts , and Rex Ryan with Bills I doubt they'd return though. But it's nice to dream of Organized Chaos again. 

 

[K-Dog]

Am I the only one that thinks holding ANY team in the NFL scoreless for three quarters is impressive? 

[52liveforever]

Onto the topic of discussion. The way I feel about Pees reminds me of every relationship I've been in with a girl. First I'm all about it then I start to notice her flaws and want to find something new or get back with an ex. Then she does something and I'm in love all over again and so on and so forth. So far this season I am in love. Yes, at the beginning of the game it was  wreck, but then we shut them out for the next 45 minutes

.

[Ravensfan23]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I understand situational football, but it was TOO conservative, I'm not saying send the house in that situation, but the defense was playing way too far off. Dink and dunk doesn't get you to the red zone from a touchback in less than 2 minutes football time. They weren't dink and dunking us, Mccown had time to throw and was attacking the intermediate and the problem there is that we were giving up big chunks, if not for that b.s. flag on Pryor they woukdve been inside the 10 and it happened in the blink of an eye.

Sure, you can place a lot of the blame on the missed tackle in coleman, but they were driving before that, and then they dropped another one on us the following play. Mccown had time, throughout the whole game his throws were rushed and we saw the effect. At the end he had all day to throw and our coverage was too soft and he cruised down the field. That style of defense only works if you are forcing them to take the small plays, which only works with rushed throws, when you give the qb time and your coverage is deep, they find the soft spots for big chunks. 

It goes beyond situational football or execution, it's common sense. You don't give the qb time to throw in the pocket, and don't scheme open zones deep down the field. There's no situation in football that calls for that kinda stuff.

Go back and watch that final drive. First of all they had 3:00 on the clock to move the ball, so the less than 2 minute comment isn't true. 

Ok so now lets bring down the drive. You say they got chunk plays, again that isn't true unless 5-7 yards is your definition of "chunk". The Browns ran 9 plays on that drive. 7 of the 9 plays were short passes that didn't travel more than 6 yards down field. So even though McCown may have had time, the coverage dictated he throw short and it's on the defenders to make tackles. Again do your jobs players, not coach.

To go back to your "chunk" play claim, of the 7 completed only 2 went for more than 7 yards and both were a result of missed tackles. Hawkins for 16 yards, Coleman for 11 yards. Again, players do your job. But more importantly, 5 of those completions came before the Browns called a timeout @ :55 and gained a grand total of 27 yards with 2 minutes coming off the clock. 5 plays for 27 yards in 2 minutes isn't chunk plays. 

Now here's the scenario. The Browns have the ball at midfield(48 yardline) with no TOs left, 55 seconds left and facing a 3rd &10. You're telling me that this is not a favorable situation for the defense? So after a 7 yard completion that took another 20 seconds off the clock, the Browns are facing 4th & 3 with a running clock @ :34 and the ball on the 41 yardline. Still nowhere near the endzone. Now again, if the players do their jobs on the next play, Coleman is tackled in bounds and the Browns have to scramble to the LOS with a running clock  @ :27. They either run a quick play or clock the ball, either way it takes at least another 10-12 seconds off the clock and saves 7 yards. Now the Browns are more than likely looking at 2nd & 10, ball at the 37 yardline with about 15 seconds left on the clock. 

The Browns literally only threw the ball deep twice during that drive, the play to Pryor that didn't count and the Int by CJ. The common sense part of it is that you play "smart" situational football. Force the opponent to dink and dunk down the field and force them to at some point attack down field into the teeth of your defense. That's exactly what happened. Like it or not, it's Pees' job to call smart efficient gameplans, not worry about the nerves of the fanbase.  

 

[Inqui]

Just now, Ravensfan23 said:

Go back and watch that final drive. First of all they had 3:00 on the clock to move the ball, so the less than 2 minute comment isn't true. 

Ok so now lets bring down the drive. You say they got chunk plays, again that isn't true unless 5-7 yards is your definition of "chunk". The Browns ran 9 plays on that drive. 7 of the 9 plays were short passes that didn't travel more than 6 yards down field. So even though McCown may have had time, the coverage dictated he throw short and it's on the defenders to make tackles. Again do your jobs players, not coach.

To go back to your "chunk" play claim, of the 7 completed only 2 went for more than 7 yards and both were a result of missed tackles. Hawkins for 16 yards, Coleman for 11 yards. Again, players do your job. But more importantly, 5 of those completions came before the Browns called a timeout @ :55 and gained a grand total of 27 yards with 2 minutes coming off the clock. 5 plays for 27 yards in 2 minutes isn't chunk plays. 

Now here's the scenario. The Browns have the ball at midfield(48 yardline) with no TOs left, 55 seconds left and facing a 3rd &10. You're telling me that this is not a favorable situation for the defense? So after a 7 yard completion that took another 20 seconds off the clock, the Browns are facing 4th & 3 with a running clock @ :34 and the ball on the 41 yardline. Still nowhere near the endzone. Now again, if the players do their jobs on the next play, Coleman is tackled in bounds and the Browns have to scramble to the LOS with a running clock  @ :27. They either run a quick play or clock the ball, either way it takes at least another 10-12 seconds off the clock and saves 7 yards. Now the Browns are more than likely looking at 2nd & 10, ball at the 37 yardline with about 15 seconds left on the clock. 

The Browns literally only threw the ball deep twice during that drive, the play to Pryor that didn't count and the Int by CJ. The common sense part of it is that you play "smart" situational football. Force the opponent to dink and dunk down the field and force them to at some point attack down field into the teeth of your defense. That's exactly what happened. Like it or not, it's Pees' job to call smart efficient gameplans, not worry about the nerves of the fanbase.  

 

Your posts in this thread have been fantastic, but you lost me here. That's just crazy talk.  

[Willbacker]

3 hours ago, hen826957 said:

That play on 4th & 4 when Shareece Wright was 10 yards off the reciever really question Dean Pees play calling. Why on earth you play off the receiver 10 yards when they only need four yards for a first down? I seen it clearly live when this happen and Coleman had a lot of space for the first down. In that moment, l knew that McCown was gonna throw his way. All he needed to do was a slant; it was way too easy. It's seems like they wanted them to get the first down. SMH. In that situation, Shareece should've played man coverage or press. 

Oh you haven't heard. DBs are allowed to play as far off as they want. Its not Pees's decision. At least according to this board. If he would have been a little closer he could have made the tackle instead of being juked out. We got extremely lucky with the taunting foul or they could have had a couple plays in the endzone. Pees always allows chunks at the end of halves with his playcalling.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Willbacker