The annual Fire Dean Pees thread; 2016 edition

[52520Andrew]

On 10/5/2016 at 10:35 AM, GrimCoconut said:

The script has been flipped!

Yeah you aren't kidding. Odd how that works

[JoeyFlex5]

16 hours ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

I don't remember you being much of a Pees supporter.  

If we have a passable offense, this team can easily be #5 in defense this year.   I know our defense is good.  I don't remember a single player within this organization that had something negative to say about Pees.   

Its the same merry-go-around every year.  Our offense goes 3 &out, then our defense shuts opponents offense down.  Then it repeats itself over and over until we either:

1) have a worned out defense.

2) have a key defensive player injured

It'll the be the same this year.  Fans will always put Pees in the hit-list.   

its been a while since i was a full blown pees supporter, but i was for a good bit. in 2013 i began to have a real problem with how our defense would shut a team the whole game and then when we really need them to get off the field late in the 4th we ALWAYS seemed to give up every 3rd down play and eventually lose because of it, but i kept quiet because our offense had so many 3 and outs and they never got to rest.. 

in 2014, i once again was defending pees because of our ridiculous injury bug to the secondary, its hard to blame the DC when you have rashaan melvin and anthony levine(when he was still very new) starting at corner and matt elam and darian stewart were your starting safeties, but that chargers game opened my eyes because it was just ridiculous how we shut them down for 3 quarters and then let them cruise down the field out of nowhere for the whole 4th and gave up a huge lead, i wasnt faulting him against the patriots though. 

then last year i was just really sick of seeing the end drives, it was another case of the offense not playing its part but our defense was really bad the first half of the season and this was with jimmy smith starting, albeit at about 75% and will hill playing the best football of his career, the constant miscues and just plain confusion among the defense was what made me fully change my mind. and of course i always reference his track record of late leads given up, that is troubling.

[Tru11]

5 hours ago, ravensdfan said:

No I replied to a comment that said because none of the players said anything bad about Pees that meant he was great. Don't believe anyone has said anything about him at all to my knowledge.

I misunderstood what was being presented I guess because it seems that everyone always says Pees never tells them to play off, which he does at times even just based on what coverage he calls for.  I mean, we all love press but we know zone gets the job done in a lot of situations. My issue isn't with zone itself - but you have to admit our cushions in zone seem way larger than other teams. Sometimes in the past, it has appeared that way because our players were not as quick to adjust and move into the play, but more recently the cushion is just too much for them to recover.

When you are as bad as wright you need all the cushion you can get to not get beat deep.

Even with a large cushion he got sucked into a double move and then got beat deep by crabtree of all people who is far from the fastest receiver....

simply put when a CB gets the call to depend the deep end of the field , his primary job is to not get beat deep.
he then has to decide based on who he is lining up against to what cushion he should give.

common sense would say that you give a guy like desean jackson a lil bit more cushion then someone like boldin for instance.

its a players decision to decide how he is going to complete his assignment though.

now when he makes that decision and still gets beats then well not much to say tbh other then that he failed.

 

 

[KBoum]

I really liked Sheldon Price at times during TC. He was shadowing WRs for the most part. On some plays he would just not focus or get lost or something but he's a big body CB how seems to be more "agile" than Wright. I know he's injured but he should get a chance pretty soon. The Ravens also said they wanna test Powers at outside CB so we'll see today if Wright is bad early on he might lose his job. Maybe they are interested to the former Panther who got torched for 300 yards against Julio lol he's still decent they let him down a lot

[BmoreBird22]

12 hours ago, ravensdfan said:

No I replied to a comment that said because none of the players said anything bad about Pees that meant he was great. Don't believe anyone has said anything about him at all to my knowledge.

I misunderstood what was being presented I guess because it seems that everyone always says Pees never tells them to play off, which he does at times even just based on what coverage he calls for.  I mean, we all love press but we know zone gets the job done in a lot of situations. My issue isn't with zone itself - but you have to admit our cushions in zone seem way larger than other teams. Sometimes in the past, it has appeared that way because our players were not as quick to adjust and move into the play, but more recently the cushion is just too much for them to recover.

I think Pees is a pretty good coordinator, personally. I don't think he's Wade Phillips/Mike Zimmer, but I think he's good.

Well, as far as the zones go, these are things that are coached up since high school. In high school, they're gonna be taught to play about 7-8 yards off. Of course, this isn't always true, as evidenced by the Seattle Seahawks that tailored their scheme to pretty much play press bail on 85%+ of their snaps. That is something Pees could coach up, I suppose, but the Ravens would need to start drafting for it. The Seahawks have been drafting those long guys since like 2011, so they've had several years of drafting guys to fit that particular scheme.

Now, with man is where the players get a little bit more freedom. Watch Aqib Talib up in Denver. Despite being a very big, long corner, he plays a surprisingly large amount of off man (although, he is very adept in press). Why? Because he's extremely good at reading the quarterback and breaking on the ball. He's actually leading the NFL in interceptions for a cornerback since coming into the league (32 since 2008). Go down to Arizona and we'll see Patrick Peterson plays a ton of press man, although, this has a ton to do with his insane athleticism and recovery speed. Revis Island was a thing because Revis pretty much solely played press man. Just really depends on the corner. Every corner prefers something different and it's really going to come down to what they're comfortable with. 

[Maryland]

9 hours ago, KBoum said:

I really liked Sheldon Price at times during TC. He was shadowing WRs for the most part. On some plays he would just not focus or get lost or something but he's a big body CB how seems to be more "agile" than Wright. I know he's injured but he should get a chance pretty soon. The Ravens also said they wanna test Powers at outside CB so we'll see today if Wright is bad early on he might lose his job. Maybe they are interested to the former Panther who got torched for 300 yards against Julio lol he's still decent they let him down a lot

They had Price on the field today, though the only time I noticed him was on an overthrow to Reed, with Reed gaining some separation on Price.

[kjbmore]

Have to give this thread a bump, 

has pees been better or is it just the tools or should Frazier get some credit

[K-Dog]

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

[The Raven]

5 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

Have to give this thread a bump, 

has pees been better or is it just the tools or should Frazier get some credit

I'm giving credit to Frazier and Weddle. Our defensive backs have never looked this good and well coached. I have never seen our DBs play so well in zone and break on the ball so hard.

Perhaps the issue -- as I speculated last season -- was that last year, we had two extremely inexperienced guys coaching the secondary. I think the coaching here has gone a long way.

I can't say it's the tools because the pass rush has not been consistent by any means, and our secondary has been hurt by injuries as always. I think we're just finally coaching our DBs better. 

Edited December 7, 2016 by The Raven

[rossihunter2]

5 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

Have to give this thread a bump, 

has pees been better or is it just the tools or should Frazier get some credit

pees has always played with the tools he had - when he's had bad tools, inevitably weaknesses will show towards the ends of games as players get tired

the fact that with aging stars etc. have never been made to look like bums and never been a league-bad defense even with bad /undeveloped talent

[kjbmore]

Have to give Harbs some credit here too - I feel.

Wouldnt have been a stretch to fire Pees last year and say we're looking to go in a different direction.

He stuck by his man and our defense is balling this year.

That said - we know he's not shy to pull the trigger when he feels he has to

[RavensFanMania]

I definitely was on the fire Deen Pees bandwagon, even as the defense started to get better at the end of the year, but I'm certainly glad he's here now.  

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Lol, this thread.

We just had our best pass rusher return and our defense has been great for all but maybe one half of football this year. 

[Ravensfan23]

Funny how about 6 weeks ago all the talk was fire Pees, fire Harbs, Ozzie is old, DeCosta is incompetent, Webb sucks, Doom is washed up, and so on. 

Pees is and has always been a really good coach. And just like any other coach he needs the right players to run his system, mainly 2 really good and smart safeties. Weddle and Webb are those guys, mainly Weddle. He's a coach in the secondary and that helps the defense tremendously. The only knock on Pees I see is his bend but don't break style at the end of games. He plays not to lose, instead of playing to win in most cases. However this year it's been a bit different. He's gone to a Tampa 2 type defense at the end of game. I really like what he's doing. He has some good pieces and he's using them well. If Doom can bring a spark to the pass rush helping Sizzle out and at least one of the young guys can step up to go along with Timmy the defense will be even better because the pass rush will be more consistent. 

 

[Cillmatic]

^I don't think ANYONE was thing the Ozzie hate seriously except one or two of the fringers of the forum.

[Willbacker]

14 hours ago, The Raven said:

I'm giving credit to Frazier and Weddle. Our defensive backs have never looked this good and well coached. I have never seen our DBs play so well in zone and break on the ball so hard.

Perhaps the issue -- as I speculated last season -- was that last year, we had two extremely inexperienced guys coaching the secondary. I think the coaching here has gone a long way.

I can't say it's the tools because the pass rush has not been consistent by any means, and our secondary has been hurt by injuries as always. I think we're just finally coaching our DBs better. 

Weddle was an A+ signing by Ozzie. Our secondary is a 100x better.

[redrum52]

14 hours ago, kjbmore said:

Have to give this thread a bump, 

has pees been better or is it just the tools or should Frazier get some credit

Health and for once, we might be at our strongest ending the season on defense is a big reason.  I never thought he was bad, but the personnel is better and Frazier has most likely helped as well.  Jimmy is rarely thrown at, Weddle has been a tremendous help and theven team seems to have more trust in one another.  Too often adjustments were still being made up to the snap and guys were caught out of position.  I rarely see that now.  Ed Reed had spoiled us.

 

@Ravensfan23  I get the Doo. tslk, but I think he was rushed back too quickly from injury.  WAY too early, but would love to see Doom, Weddle and Steve get one this year.

 

@The Raven imagine if we could generate consistent pressure with how the dbs have been playing.

Edited December 8, 2016 by redrum52

[sibelius]

1 hour ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Lol, this thread.

We just had our best pass rusher return and our defense has been great for all but maybe one half of football this year. 

I'd say our best "sack-getter" but not our best pass rusher at this point. Suggs is on another level this season. I was watching an interview with Branden Albert (Miami LT) and he was asked if it was disheartening to play against Sizzle and his response was, "He's one of the best pass rushers to ever play this game, but next week is a new game."

The way 55 is impacting games this season is underrated. 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

20 minutes ago, sibelius said:

I'd say our best "sack-getter" but not our best pass rusher at this point. Suggs is on another level this season. I was watching an interview with Branden Albert (Miami LT) and he was asked if it was disheartening to play against Sizzle and his response was, "He's one of the best pass rushers to ever play this game, but next week is a new game."

The way 55 is impacting games this season is underrated. 

 

Doom can generate pressure for days and will only get better the healthier he gets. Suggs is great in that department but I think Doom is the better pass rusher. 

[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

1 hour ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Funny how about 6 weeks ago all the talk was fire Pees, fire Harbs, Ozzie is old, DeCosta is incompetent, Webb sucks, Doom is washed up, and so on. 

Pees is and has always been a really good coach. And just like any other coach he needs the right players to run his system, mainly 2 really good and smart safeties. Weddle and Webb are those guys, mainly Weddle. He's a coach in the secondary and that helps the defense tremendously. The only knock on Pees I see is his bend but don't break style at the end of games. He plays not to lose, instead of playing to win in most cases. However this year it's been a bit different. He's gone to a Tampa 2 type defense at the end of game. I really like what he's doing. He has some good pieces and he's using them well. If Doom can bring a spark to the pass rush helping Sizzle out and at least one of the young guys can step up to go along with Timmy the defense will be even better because the pass rush will be more consistent. 

 

Well said

[ravensdfan]

1 hour ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Funny how about 6 weeks ago all the talk was fire Pees, fire Harbs, Ozzie is old, DeCosta is incompetent, Webb sucks, Doom is washed up, and so on. 

Pees is and has always been a really good coach. And just like any other coach he needs the right players to run his system, mainly 2 really good and smart safeties. Weddle and Webb are those guys, mainly Weddle. He's a coach in the secondary and that helps the defense tremendously. The only knock on Pees I see is his bend but don't break style at the end of games. He plays not to lose, instead of playing to win in most cases. However this year it's been a bit different. He's gone to a Tampa 2 type defense at the end of game. I really like what he's doing. He has some good pieces and he's using them well. If Doom can bring a spark to the pass rush helping Sizzle out and at least one of the young guys can step up to go along with Timmy the defense will be even better because the pass rush will be more consistent. 

 

Sorry, but I disagree on the "really good coach" part. Bottom line is he's been here five seasons and the same issues have been here that entire time. Suddenly, things are better this season, but seriously, how much of that is Frazier's influence? We can't know. Not only that, but the game where the D holds just so happens to be the game where the offense goes off - which is what I've said about him the entire time. His scheme requires an offense that scores better than 30 pts a game, otherwise it fails.

Pees can game plan with the best of them, that much is true. It is when that game plan fails to work that his shortcomings become too obvious. Whether it's Frazier's influence or Pees' is feeling the heat and changed it up - just hope it continues. Yeah I know that means he isn't going anywhere but it's all about the team's success.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

19 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

Sorry, but I disagree on the "really good coach" part. Bottom line is he's been here five seasons and the same issues have been here that entire time. Suddenly, things are better this season, but seriously, how much of that is Frazier's influence? We can't know. Not only that, but the game where the D holds just so happens to be the game where the offense goes off - which is what I've said about him the entire time. His scheme requires an offense that scores better than 30 pts a game, otherwise it fails.

Pees can game plan with the best of them, that much is true. It is when that game plan fails to work that his shortcomings become too obvious. Whether it's Frazier's influence or Pees' is feeling the heat and changed it up - just hope it continues. Yeah I know that means he isn't going anywhere but it's all about the team's success.

4

Probably solely in the player development department. Acquiring Eric Weddle and drafting Tavon Young made our secondary good alone, and Frazier has only had influence there. 

Sorry, we know you hate Pees since he's not a punch you in the mouth type, but his defense has been working. They've played one bad half (and one quarter vs. the Browns) all year. 

Amazing what happens when you have the personnel right?

[arnie_uk]

Still not convinced about him, but he's earned another season.

[Purple_City39]

I've said it for years, mostly elsewhere, that the problem was health and not Pees.  Pick a year, he's had some very injured defenses.  I think 2013 was the healthiest defensive year previously and they finished in the top 10.  And what he did with that 2014 secondary after Jimmy went down was nothing short of miraculous, especially against the Steelers.  Belichick, unfortunately, is on another level of gameplanning

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

9 hours ago, ravensdfan said:

Sorry, but I disagree on the "really good coach" part. Bottom line is he's been here five seasons and the same issues have been here that entire time. Suddenly, things are better this season, but seriously, how much of that is Frazier's influence? We can't know. Not only that, but the game where the D holds just so happens to be the game where the offense goes off - which is what I've said about him the entire time. His scheme requires an offense that scores better than 30 pts a game, otherwise it fails.

Pees can game plan with the best of them, that much is true. It is when that game plan fails to work that his shortcomings become too obvious. Whether it's Frazier's influence or Pees' is feeling the heat and changed it up - just hope it continues. Yeah I know that means he isn't going anywhere but it's all about the team's success.

Wait. So, a defense that gives up 6 points requires an offense to put up 30?

So..... what about our other 6 wins where the offense did next to nothing? Are you saying the D didnt hold on in those games?

Any defense requires the offense to do something. Before the Miami game, our offense was on pace to score LESS points than our 2000 offense.

 

And the defense is now great -- and, all credit goes to the DBs coach?? No. Not improved personnel, finally a safety tandem on the back end that can play, and health across the board. It's the DBs coach.

Not to mention, over the 2nd half of last season (when Webb was moved to safety, Lewis started playing more over Hill, and Jimmy got healthier) our pass defense was #1 in the league. The improvement on D started well before Frazier got here.

Infusing talent, health, and yes a better secondary coach definitely plays a part... has just taken the improvements over the top.

Edited December 8, 2016 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[nextgen_RavensFan]

Soo nice to see Pee's finally getting some good credit for getting our young stars where they are and dominating. So glad the front office has patience and knows more then we do. 

 

Go Ravens !!

[kjbmore]

Mods - might need to change the thread title - annual appreciation 

[Moderator 3]

20 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

Mods - might need to change the thread title - annual appreciation 

No, it serves as a good reminder that people should try to temper their reactions.

[rmcjacket23]

On 12/8/2016 at 0:32 AM, ravensdfan said:

Sorry, but I disagree on the "really good coach" part. Bottom line is he's been here five seasons and the same issues have been here that entire time. Suddenly, things are better this season, but seriously, how much of that is Frazier's influence? We can't know. Not only that, but the game where the D holds just so happens to be the game where the offense goes off - which is what I've said about him the entire time. His scheme requires an offense that scores better than 30 pts a game, otherwise it fails.

Pees can game plan with the best of them, that much is true. It is when that game plan fails to work that his shortcomings become too obvious. Whether it's Frazier's influence or Pees' is feeling the heat and changed it up - just hope it continues. Yeah I know that means he isn't going anywhere but it's all about the team's success.

Or, its the personnel, which it almost always is...

[Tru11]

On 8-12-2016 at 6:32 AM, ravensdfan said:

Sorry, but I disagree on the "really good coach" part. Bottom line is he's been here five seasons and the same issues have been here that entire time. Suddenly, things are better this season, but seriously, how much of that is Frazier's influence? We can't know. Not only that, but the game where the D holds just so happens to be the game where the offense goes off - which is what I've said about him the entire time. His scheme requires an offense that scores better than 30 pts a game, otherwise it fails.

Pees can game plan with the best of them, that much is true. It is when that game plan fails to work that his shortcomings become too obvious. Whether it's Frazier's influence or Pees' is feeling the heat and changed it up - just hope it continues. Yeah I know that means he isn't going anywhere but it's all about the team's success.

how many games this season has the offense put up 30 points without help by any other unit?