The annual Fire Dean Pees thread; 2016 edition

[RaineV1]

Being last in redzone defense is pretty awful. Honestly, I'd be fine with being much further down in total defense if we had a top redzone defense. Teams getting TDs more often than not in the redzone will really screw us in the long run.

[Purple_City39]

Well, for this week we can be glad that Washington isn't a great redzone offense.  So it's weakness vs slightly bigger weakness on that level

[Rav'n Maniac]

48 minutes ago, Purple_City39 said:

Well, for this week we can be glad that Washington isn't a great redzone offense.  So it's weakness vs slightly bigger weakness on that level

Well they did score 4 redzone tds this past week against the Browns, 3 passes - 1 run. Possibly it's coming around.

[berad]

I'm glad the changes Pees made to the defense - coming down from the booth, simplifying, and more variable schemes - have shown results but we're not the 2006 (or even 2011) Ravens just yet. That red zone stat is troubling, especially, because it's what we could hang our hat on in the past.

The additions of Frazier and Weddle were obviously helped a lot, can't say this enough. The corners are so inconsistent, though, it's troubling. We gave up a game-winning drive in what felt like 4 plays.

[GrimCoconut]

16 hours ago, arnie_uk said:

Stole from RSR.

1st in overall defense

Last in red zone defense 

The script has been flipped!

[frozen joe flacco fan]

You Pees detractors are really smart! Oakland's last score came when Webb was on the sideline being checked out in the concussion protocol. Also, their offense was given a short field when a jailbreak rush resulted in a strip sack and fumble. Oakland's high-powered offense scored its 1st TD on a short field after a 60 plus yard punt return. Dean Pees' Purple Rain held the highly touted No. 2 ranked Oakland offense to less than 300 total yards and Carr had ~200 yards passing. So what!!!!!! BTW, isn't our defense ranked No. 1? Yeah let's get rid of Coach Pees and promote Coach Frazier. That makes so much sense.  

[PurpleCity5]

18 hours ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

You Pees detractors are really smart! Oakland's last score came when Webb was on the sideline being checked out in the concussion protocol. Also, their offense was given a short field when a jailbreak rush resulted in a strip sack and fumble. Oakland's high-powered offense scored its 1st TD on a short field after a 60 plus yard punt return. Dean Pees' Purple Rain held the highly touted No. 2 ranked Oakland offense to less than 300 total yards and Carr had ~200 yards passing. So what!!!!!! BTW, isn't our defense ranked No. 1? Yeah let's get rid of Coach Pees and promote Coach Frazier. That makes so much sense.  

Pees has called great games this year. I think that the players need to execute better, I like his approach to improving our red-zone. I think that's the biggest problem with this defense. Frazier has done a great job too. 

[DomMcRaven]

10 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Pees has called great games this year. I think that the players need to execute better, I like his approach to improving our red-zone. I think that's the biggest problem with this defense. Frazier has done a great job too. 

It's amazing how our defense has played despite an underwhelming pass-rush and true shutdown CB (Jimmy is still a really good CB though). We'd be right there with the Eagles, Vikings, and Broncos if we had both. 

[RaineV1]

1 hour ago, DomMcRaven said:

It's amazing how our defense has played despite an underwhelming pass-rush and true shutdown CB (Jimmy is still a really good CB though). We'd be right there with the Eagles, Vikings, and Broncos if we had both. 

Hopefully the passrush part will improve when Doom shakes off the rust and Judon gets some more experience.

[JoeyFlex5]

20 hours ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

You Pees detractors are really smart! Oakland's last score came when Webb was on the sideline being checked out in the concussion protocol. Also, their offense was given a short field when a jailbreak rush resulted in a strip sack and fumble. Oakland's high-powered offense scored its 1st TD on a short field after a 60 plus yard punt return. Dean Pees' Purple Rain held the highly touted No. 2 ranked Oakland offense to less than 300 total yards and Carr had ~200 yards passing. So what!!!!!! BTW, isn't our defense ranked No. 1? Yeah let's get rid of Coach Pees and promote Coach Frazier. That makes so much sense.  

Plenty of complaints about pees are warranted and there are far more that are ridiculous. 

The fact is that he has called a lot of good defenses that are notorious for giving up leads late. 

He has done a great job this year, i was a long time pees supporter but I began to grow weary when we gave up the game vs the chargers in 2014. He's proving me wrong so far and the end drive wasn't on him, it was the players. But let's not act like pees is a class A coordinator, he's solid, and his defense does very well when he has a top notch secondary, but he falters in the clutch at times and often overthinks it.

[DomMcRaven]

43 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

Hopefully the passrush part will improve when Doom shakes off the rust and Judon gets some more experience.

Should definitely open some things up for Jernigan and Pierce. ZDS needs to get benched if he doesn't get it together.

[Maryland]

2 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

Hopefully the passrush part will improve when Doom shakes off the rust and Judon gets some more experience.

I'm wondering if Doom being active is going to cause Judon to be inactive most weeks now. Judon is probably our best pass-rusher until Doom gets healthy, but activating Judon means you're probably deactivating a special teams contributor.

[ravensdfan]

On 10/5/2016 at 9:47 PM, frozen joe flacco fan said:

You Pees detractors are really smart! Oakland's last score came when Webb was on the sideline being checked out in the concussion protocol. Also, their offense was given a short field when a jailbreak rush resulted in a strip sack and fumble. Oakland's high-powered offense scored its 1st TD on a short field after a 60 plus yard punt return. Dean Pees' Purple Rain held the highly touted No. 2 ranked Oakland offense to less than 300 total yards and Carr had ~200 yards passing. So what!!!!!! BTW, isn't our defense ranked No. 1? Yeah let's get rid of Coach Pees and promote Coach Frazier. That makes so much sense.  

Except that - yards don't matter. Go back to any Pees' thread in the past, when we were giving up huge yardage, and that is what we were told. It isn't about the yards. I mean, defend him if you like, but stop flipping the script when it suits you. We are last, last, in red zone defense. Now, we are in the top 10 for scoring - which is pretty good - but as we get to the better offenses we'll see if that holds up.

Edited October 7, 2016 by ravensdfan

[The Raven]

7 hours ago, ravensdfan said:

Except that - yards don't matter. Go back to any Pees' thread in the past, when we were giving up huge yardage, and that is what we were told. It isn't about the yards. I mean, defend him if you like, but stop flipping the script when it suits you. We are last, last, in red zone defense. Now, we are in the top 10 for scoring - which is pretty good - but as we get to the better offenses we'll see if that holds up.

So Pees haters are allowed to flip the script -- calling for him to be fired when we're good on points but bad on yardage and vice versa -- but Pees supporters aren't allowed to flip the script? Sounds hypocritical to me.

[Tank 92]

7 hours ago, ravensdfan said:

Except that - yards don't matter. Go back to any Pees' thread in the past, when we were giving up huge yardage, and that is what we were told. It isn't about the yards. I mean, defend him if you like, but stop flipping the script when it suits you. We are last, last, in red zone defense. Now, we are in the top 10 for scoring - which is pretty good - but as we get to the better offenses we'll see if that holds up.

At some point you are going to just have to admit that Dean is a good D C rather than trying to rationalize why he''s not.   LOL

[ravensdfan]

26 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

At some point you are going to just have to admit that Dean is a good D C rather than trying to rationalize why he''s not.   LOL

lol Our defenses since 2012 pretty much prove he isn't "good". No need for anyone to rationalize. At some point you are going to have to admit he is mediocre and nothing more, rather than make up excuses and choose what matters and doesn't depending on what looks good.

[ravensdfan]

34 minutes ago, The Raven said:

So Pees haters are allowed to flip the script -- calling for him to be fired when we're good on points but bad on yardage and vice versa -- but Pees supporters aren't allowed to flip the script? Sounds hypocritical to me.

Really? I do believe I said we are also Top 10 in scoring, which is pretty good, and we'll see if that holds up. Because unlike the Pees' defenders, I get that things work together and being #1 in yards but bottom in scoring doesn't make you good, and vice versa.

[Tru11]

7 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

At some point you are going to just have to admit that Dean is a good D C rather than trying to rationalize why he''s not.   LOL

she will find something to complain about no matter how unwarranted it will be.

we could be top 10 in all major stats and she will complain......

[RaineV1]

I still don't have much faith in Pees, but I'll give him credit in finally deciding to simplify his scheme rather than just continuing to defend it.

[Tank 92]

7 hours ago, ravensdfan said:

lol Our defenses since 2012 pretty much prove he isn't "good". No need for anyone to rationalize. At some point you are going to have to admit he is mediocre and nothing more, rather than make up excuses and choose what matters and doesn't depending on what looks good.

'Cmon, get real. You have to realize that defense is better this year because the personnel as a whole are better and they are playing/executing better.  I'm not going to rehash the same old crap, but just say wowser, give it up already. 

[Tank 92]

And just to add.....if the pass rush improves this Dean Pees defense could very well be tops in the league despite the holes at CB. 

[Rav'n Maniac]

3 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

And just to add.....if the pass rush improves this Dean Pees defense could very well be tops in the league despite the holes at CB. 

I laughed this week when Pees said in his presser that if he had 4 pro bowl DB's those touchdowns last week don't happen.

[Ravenseconbeast]

On 10/6/2016 at 6:06 PM, JoeyFlex5 said:

Plenty of complaints about pees are warranted and there are far more that are ridiculous. 

The fact is that he has called a lot of good defenses that are notorious for giving up leads late. 

He has done a great job this year, i was a long time pees supporter but I began to grow weary when we gave up the game vs the chargers in 2014. He's proving me wrong so far and the end drive wasn't on him, it was the players. But let's not act like pees is a class A coordinator, he's solid, and his defense does very well when he has a top notch secondary, but he falters in the clutch at times and often overthinks it.

I don't remember you being much of a Pees supporter.  

If we have a passable offense, this team can easily be #5 in defense this year.   I know our defense is good.  I don't remember a single player within this organization that had something negative to say about Pees.   

Its the same merry-go-around every year.  Our offense goes 3 &out, then our defense shuts opponents offense down.  Then it repeats itself over and over until we either:

1) have a worned out defense.

2) have a key defensive player injured

It'll the be the same this year.  Fans will always put Pees in the hit-list.   

[redrum52]

The punt return and fumble sure didn't help last week.  The defense has been put in bad spots and for the most part come through.  The offense needs to start getting it together.  Hester needs to hold onto the ball as well.

[Tank 92]

25 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

The punt return and fumble sure didn't help last week.  The defense has been put in bad spots and for the most part come through.  The offense needs to start getting it together.  Hester needs to hold onto the ball as well.

The TEAM needs to get it together. All phases had their failures last week. 

[ravensdfan]

3 hours ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

I don't remember you being much of a Pees supporter.  

If we have a passable offense, this team can easily be #5 in defense this year.   I know our defense is good.  I don't remember a single player within this organization that had something negative to say about Pees.   

Its the same merry-go-around every year.  Our offense goes 3 &out, then our defense shuts opponents offense down.  Then it repeats itself over and over until we either:

1) have a worned out defense.

2) have a key defensive player injured

It'll the be the same this year.  Fans will always put Pees in the hit-list.   

No one had anything negative to say about Cam either. They aren't going to throw people under the bus no matter what the situation is so that proves nothing.

The offense didn't go 3 and out though - they scored and scored again to take the lead late. The final TD play is not on Pees but his back off into infinity defense allowed them to march down the field without any opposition to speak of and get into position to even make that play.

I agree on Hester. He's being paid to do one thing and is failing.

I also agree that we're not talking omg fire Pees now! this season. But my issue is that people can't admit that he is what he is. This isn't a new thing, he has historically produced good defenses that are unclutch when it matters. Right now the defense looks great in the stats both in yards and scoring. I hope that holds up and I can come in here and apologize to Pees. I say that every year, and every year he sadly proves me right about him instead.

 

[BmoreBird22]

13 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

No one had anything negative to say about Cam either. They aren't going to throw people under the bus no matter what the situation is so that proves nothing.

Very selective memory, I see...

And Pees doesn't tell the corners to play off, but the Cover 4 play call WAS the right play call. Shareece Wright is just awful and it wouldn't matter if he had played press. 

Edited October 8, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[ravensdfan]

7 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Very selective memory, I see...

And Pees doesn't tell the corners to play off, but the Cover 4 play call WAS the right play call. Shareece Wright is just awful and it wouldn't matter if he had played press. 

 

Really? What players threw Cam under the bus while he was here?

Every Pees' defender makes that claim. That Pees doesn't tell them that - so it rather boggles my mind that every single corner who has ever played here under him does that. Doesn't really add up that it doesn't come from him to some extent.

Edited October 9, 2016 by ravensdfan

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, ravensdfan said:

Really? What players threw Cam under the bus while he was here?

Every Pees' defender makes that claim. That Pees doesn't tell them that - so it rather boggles my mind that every single corner who has ever played here under him does that. Doesn't really add up that it doesn't come from him to some extent.

Ah, players. I thought you meant coaches. But when did players throw him under the bus.

Have you ever watched other teams play? You're going to find that players just have a niche that they play to. Sherman plays a lot of press bail in zone. Talib plays a fair amount of off. Jimmy plays a lot of press, even when Wright doesn't. 

Are there times when corners are coached what a typical distance off is? Sure. Cover 3 usually plays about 8 off, for example.

But when they play man, they literally play to their comfort level.

[ravensdfan]

5 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Ah, players. I thought you meant coaches. But when did players throw him under the bus.

Have you ever watched other teams play? You're going to find that players just have a niche that they play to. Sherman plays a lot of press bail in zone. Talib plays a fair amount of off. Jimmy plays a lot of press, even when Wright doesn't. 

Are there times when corners are coached what a typical distance off is? Sure. Cover 3 usually plays about 8 off, for example.

But when they play man, they literally play to their comfort level.

No I replied to a comment that said because none of the players said anything bad about Pees that meant he was great. Don't believe anyone has said anything about him at all to my knowledge.

I misunderstood what was being presented I guess because it seems that everyone always says Pees never tells them to play off, which he does at times even just based on what coverage he calls for.  I mean, we all love press but we know zone gets the job done in a lot of situations. My issue isn't with zone itself - but you have to admit our cushions in zone seem way larger than other teams. Sometimes in the past, it has appeared that way because our players were not as quick to adjust and move into the play, but more recently the cushion is just too much for them to recover.