The annual Fire Dean Pees thread; 2016 edition

[JoeyFlex5]

Ok so... Once again, we see typical Dean Pees late game defense. 

One style of defense has prevented a single point from being scored in 3 quarters, while clearly making the qb less effective as he is playing scared and getting hurt. 

The other style of defense gave up an easy touchdown in the first drive and also allowed for easy red zone conversions in the first quarter. 

Better call the ineffective defense when we need 1 last stop in the 4th right??? 

Typical pees, he's done this ever since he's been a DC, the track record speaks for itself.

We won this in spite of his game plan at the end due to a bad call by the refs that helped us and also thanks to fraziers Tampa 2 coaching which clearly played a roles in mosleys deep interception on the 1 centerfield. That's got frazier written all over it, meanwhile the showing blitz but dropping everyone and only rushing 4 when the blitz was working all day, that's Pees, that's what he's known for. 

Hes gotta go.

[Bandwagon]

fire trestman when

[JoeyFlex5]

2 minutes ago, Bandwagon said:

fire trestman when

He got his act together. I'm losing patience but he still needs to find his groove.

Dean pees has had enough time and he finds his groove all the time and then abandons the groove and leaves us scratching our heads.

Also I'm starting to wonder how much of the blame should be placed on harbaughs emphasis on feeding forsett. He needs to see the bench and never leave it.

[The Raven]

Pees called a great game -- again -- aside from the last drive. And the Browns' success on that drive has a lot more to do with our complete inability to get pressure with four. We desperately need Doom back. We need ZDS and Judon to get up to speed. 

[Bandwagon]

5 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

He got his act together. I'm losing patience but he still needs to find his groove.

Dean pees has had enough time and he finds his groove all the time and then abandons the groove and leaves us scratching our heads.

Also I'm starting to wonder how much of the blame should be placed on harbaughs emphasis on feeding forsett. He needs to see the bench and never leave it.

I too want to Pees gone and this time I think we have a solid replacement in Frazier..

On Forsett, as much as an amazing person he is.. I've never been a fan of him. Yes he had an amazing season in 14 but thats because of Gary Kubiak. I've always been skeptical on forsett the second Kubiak ditched us. Our running game is so trash and honestly we're not going to get anywhere if we dont fix our running game and also a little on our passing game. We're barely using the amazing talent we have at WR and TE (despite the poopy drops today)

Edited September 18, 2016 by Bandwagon

[JoeyFlex5]

1 minute ago, The Raven said:

Pees called a great game -- again -- aside from the last drive. And the Browns' success on that drive has a lot more to do with our complete inability to get pressure with four. We desperately need Doom back. We need ZDS and Judon to get up to speed. 

The entire point of the rant was the final drive. He does it all the time dating back to his patriots days. He fails on final drives and more often than not it's because he scraps his own game plan which had been working the whole game.

He called a brilliant game for 2 quarters and 13 minutes, and then blew it at the end, like he has done a million times.

[JoeyFlex5]

1 minute ago, Bandwagon said:

I too want to Pees gone and this time I think we have a solid replacement in Frazier..

On Forsett, as much as an amazing person he is.. I've never been a fan of him. Yes he had an amazing season in 14 but thats because of Gary Kubiak. I've always been skeptical on forsett the second Kubiak ditched us. Our running game is so trash and honestly we're not going to get anywhere if we dont fix our running game and also a little on our passing game. We're barely using the amazing talent we have at WR and TE (despite the poopy drops today)

You just said everything that the fans who know about schemes and playcalling have said since kubiak left. 

Shame that we can see that forsett is a stretch some system guy and he has no business taking carries from West in a gap scheme. Hell West even did better on the few stretch runs he was given.

[CalvinSmoke]

2 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

You just said everything that the fans who know about schemes and playcalling have said since kubiak left. 

Shame that we can see that forsett is a stretch some system guy and he has no business taking carries from West in a gap scheme. Hell West even did better on the few stretch runs he was given.

Can't cut Forsett yet, last week he was the only consistent back. Until these younger backs stabilize he's got a spot on the team.

[K-Dog]

And hire who?

For both the Pees and Treasman haters

 

Edited September 18, 2016 by K-Dog

[Purple_City39]

I think this entire game from the opening kickoff until the last Browns drive shows why it's hard for me to just hate on Pees like many do.  The first quarter saw aggressive play calls, attacking the QB with blitzes left and right.  But McCown got passes off and the secondary stunk it up (along with the d-line on that long rushing TD).  He called the same kind of gameplan in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quarter (sans that last drive) and suddenly he's now great because the players actually performed as they should have in the 1st quarter.

I will fully agree I wasn't happy with the play calling on the last drive, but dropping 7+ into coverage ended up working out in the end so I won't complain too much

[Deflated Football]

3 minutes ago, K-Dog said:

And hire who?

For both the Pees and Treasman haters

 

I don't have a problem with Trestman, but Leslie Frazier would probably supersede Pees 

[GrimCoconut]

 What did he do wrong? The defense was not playing well early on he adjusted and the defense played better. That's what the defense of coordinator does. The players need to maintain their assignments, not get beat, miss tackles, or over pursue and not wrap up when you got the sack dead to rights. Tackle, wrap up, intercept the ball when it hits you in the freaking hands, and finish. 

[Inqui]

I thought our defensive woes this week were on the players not covering as well, taking bad angles and that kinda thing.

I also don't actually have a problem with what Pees called in the last drive either. They had about two minutes left and only one timeout, so playing softer to avoid getting torched for a TD and opening up the middle of the field for in-field tackles (that wind a good 20 to 30 seconds off the clock) makes sense to me. That last first-down conversion was where it got really dicey, but I'll have to review that play to see whether it was on him or a player.

[Ravensfan23]

4 minutes ago, Purple_City39 said:

I think this entire game from the opening kickoff until the last Browns drive shows why it's hard for me to just hate on Pees like many do.  The first quarter saw aggressive play calls, attacking the QB with blitzes left and right.  But McCown got passes off and the secondary stunk it up (along with the d-line on that long rushing TD).  He called the same kind of gameplan in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quarter (sans that last drive) and suddenly he's now great because the players actually performed as they should have in the 1st quarter.

I will fully agree I wasn't happy with the play calling on the last drive, but dropping 7+ into coverage ended up working out in the end so I won't complain too much

This!!!

It's true on both sides of the ball. Trestman is blamed for calling a poor game to start, but if West doesn't drop a pass on a blown coverage he picks up 20+ yards in the first quarter, if Moore doesn't drop a easy TD, the Ravens are on the board a lot sooner. Flacco said he had to go to Trestman and tell him to open things up and i'm sure many will look at that to say...see even Flacco thought the play calling was trash, but again the fact of the matter is the offense had guys in position to make plays from the opening drive, they just didn't. 

As for Pees. that final drive is never fun, but that's when you have to place trust in your players. @JoeyFlex5 it's easy to say run the same style of defense you ran since the 2nd quarter, but the issue comes when you have a team backed up with only 1 TO. If you are aggressively coming after the QB, you are leaving your DBs on an island with a group of WRs who already prove to be able to make plays down field. One missed tackle on Coleman and game over. Or if Pryor uses his size to make a play down field on your smaller DBs, now they have a even bigger opportunity. Like it or not, which i admit it sucks, but the smart play is to force the Browns to dink and dunk to move the ball with only 1 TO. Allow the catch and make the tackle, which they didn't do on Coleman allowing him to get out of bounds stoping the clock. You gotta force the Browns to make a mistake and hope your defense can take advantage of it when it happens. That was the case today.

[BmoreBird22]

19 minutes ago, Purple_City39 said:

I think this entire game from the opening kickoff until the last Browns drive shows why it's hard for me to just hate on Pees like many do.  The first quarter saw aggressive play calls, attacking the QB with blitzes left and right.  But McCown got passes off and the secondary stunk it up (along with the d-line on that long rushing TD).  He called the same kind of gameplan in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quarter (sans that last drive) and suddenly he's now great because the players actually performed as they should have in the 1st quarter.

I will fully agree I wasn't happy with the play calling on the last drive, but dropping 7+ into coverage ended up working out in the end so I won't complain too much

People don't hate the play call (because most can't identify it); they hate the result.

[Doomville]

that missed tackle by wright on coleman on the last drive gave the browns a huge chance to win. First of all, wright was playing 10 yards off of the WR on 4th and short. Now, i wouldn't have minded that had he made that tackle which would have kept coleman in bounds. But, he missed which screwed us and stopped the clock. He should have pressed covered coleman because there was a safety on top which would have helped him had coleman blown past him. We need better CBs

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, Doomville said:

that missed tackle by wright on coleman on the last drive gave the browns a huge chance to win. First of all, wright was playing 10 yards off of the WR on 4th and short. Now, i wouldn't have minded that had he made that tackle which would have kept coleman in bounds. But, he missed which screwed us and stopped the clock. He should have pressed covered coleman because there was a safety on top which would have helped him had coleman blown past him. We need better CBs

When the Ravens have $30M+ in cap space, that'll happen

[JoeyFlex5]

2 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

This!!!

It's true on both sides of the ball. Trestman is blamed for calling a poor game to start, but if West doesn't drop a pass on a blown coverage he picks up 20+ yards in the first quarter, if Moore doesn't drop a easy TD, the Ravens are on the board a lot sooner. Flacco said he had to go to Trestman and tell him to open things up and i'm sure many will look at that to say...see even Flacco thought the play calling was trash, but again the fact of the matter is the offense had guys in position to make plays from the opening drive, they just didn't. 

As for Pees. that final drive is never fun, but that's when you have to place trust in your players. @JoeyFlex5 it's easy to say run the same style of defense you ran since the 2nd quarter, but the issue comes when you have a team backed up with only 1 TO. If you are aggressively coming after the QB, you are leaving your DBs on an island with a group of WRs who already prove to be able to make plays down field. One missed tackle on Coleman and game over. Or if Pryor uses his size to make a play down field on your smaller DBs, now they have a even bigger opportunity. Like it or not, which i admit it sucks, but the smart play is to force the Browns to dink and dunk to move the ball with only 1 TO. Allow the catch and make the tackle, which they didn't do on Coleman allowing him to get out of bounds stoping the clock. You gotta force the Browns to make a mistake and hope your defense can take advantage of it when it happens. That was the case today.

But the problem with that is, you aren't forcing dink and dunk, you're playing so conservative that you're giving up 20+ yards every 2 snaps, and before you know it they're in the red zone and it only takes one play. 

What do we do when we are up by 2 and need to prevent a fg? Does Dean call the same way? What happens when we face the jets or the jags and we have to worry about a jumoball from Marshall or Robinson because we let them causally stroll to the red zone where a back shoulder fade suddenly becomes easy?

Its a trickle down effect when you decide to abandon your most effective game plan for the sake of playing safe. Its easier to score from the 20 than their own 25. Especially when our blitz was generating tons of pressure that had the qb seeing ghosts.

[Tru11]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

People don't hate the play call (because most can't identify it); they hate the result.

yup.

most dont have a clue what the play call was and what thus went wrong.....

[TurkishRaven]

I don't want to say anything until the week 6. It's too early to judge our defense and offense especially against the Bills and the Browns. It's too early in the season. There is a lot to be seen before I want people fired.

[balfan23]

30 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

People don't hate the play call (because most can't identify it); they hate the result.

You can probably put me in that category as well as 97% of all fans (an unscientific estimate). The reason I did join in at some level on defensive coaching criticism over the past couple years is very basic. If I see a passive approach, don't see players flying to the ball and making plays ... you can say it should be on the players themselves, but coaches will get heat and I'm going to be inclined to join in. When players aren't playing to expectation that's what you get. It really doesn't get more complicated than that. 

I do think it goes beyond fans ... I'm not going to be surprised if he is not under some form of organizational heat. So far this season, I think all concerned are OK with what we've seen. 

 

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, balfan23 said:

You can probably put me in that category as well as 97% of all fans. The reason I did join in at some level on defensive coaching criticism over the past couple years is very basic. If I see a passive approach, don't see players flying to the ball and making plays ... you can say it should be on the players themselves, but coaches will get heat and I'm going to be inclined to join in. When players aren't playing to expectation that's what you get. It really doesn't get more complicated than that.

Do I always like what he does? Absolutely not. But I also recognize that he does just about everything in his power and the execution just isn't always there. 

The biggest thing for me is the lack of tackling. People love to hate on the bend but don't break mentality, but that's what teams like Seattle and Carolina run. Only difference is those two teams swarm to the ball and actually tackle. 

I think if the Ravens could consistently tackle and take proper angles, we'd be seeing a much different tune sung about Pees.

[Ravensfan23]

18 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

But the problem with that is, you aren't forcing dink and dunk, you're playing so conservative that you're giving up 20+ yards every 2 snaps, and before you know it they're in the red zone and it only takes one play. 

What do we do when we are up by 2 and need to prevent a fg? Does Dean call the same way? What happens when we face the jets or the jags and we have to worry about a jumoball from Marshall or Robinson because we let them causally stroll to the red zone where a back shoulder fade suddenly becomes easy?

Its a trickle down effect when you decide to abandon your most effective game plan for the sake of playing safe. Its easier to score from the 20 than their own 25. Especially when our blitz was generating tons of pressure that had the qb seeing ghosts.

Again we're talking about situational football and results. You really don't worry about the Browns racking up yards in that situation because you are defending against a TD not a FG. It's not abandoning your gameplan, it's playing situational football. It's the same as saying, oh the offense is moving the ball well by running and hitting play action, why all of the sudden switch up and go uptempo/no huddle in 2 minute? Because it's what the situation called for. 

The biggest play on that final drive was a 16 yard play to Hawkins. Again it was 4th and 3 when the Coleman play happened. The players were in position to just MAKE THE TACKLE!!!! if they make the tackle in bounds with 27 seconds and the clock running, the Browns are scrambling to get everyone set and you'll probably run another 7-10 seconds. But that didn't happen, they got out of bounds and was able to huddle up to regroup. 

The idea in that situation is to use the field as an extra defender. Once they called their final timeout, you basically give them the middle of the field so completed passes runs more clock. Once they get down near the 30, you can use the endzone as an extra defender because it'll be tougher to get behind the coverage and again any catch in bounds runs more clock with less than 20 seconds to play. Once you get them down there, you basically know their only option is endzone, so now you can dail up pressure and cover the goaline, exactly what happened on the final play. 

That defensive strategy was perfect by Pees, it's just nerve reckon for us fans because the games on the line and we see yards being racked up. But if guys do their job, which CJ did, you'll usually have positive results. 

[Tru11]

2 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Again we're talking about situational football and results. You really don't worry about the Browns racking up yards in that situation because you are defending against a TD not a FG. It's not abandoning your gameplan, it's playing situational football. It's the same as saying, oh the offense is moving the ball well by running and hitting play action, why all of the sudden switch up and go uptempo/no huddle in 2 minute? Because it's what the situation called for. 

The biggest play on that final drive was a 16 yard play to Hawkins. Again it was 4th and 3 when the Coleman play happened. The players were in position to just MAKE THE TACKLE!!!! if they make the tackle in bounds with 27 seconds and the clock running, the Browns are scrambling to get everyone set and you'll probably run another 7-10 seconds. But that didn't happen, they got out of bounds and was able to huddle up to regroup. 

The idea in that situation is to use the field as an extra defender. Once they called their final timeout, you basically give them the middle of the field so completed passes runs more clock. Once they get down near the 30, you can use the endzone as an extra defender because it'll be tougher to get behind the coverage and again any catch in bounds runs more clock with less than 20 seconds to play. Once you get them down there, you basically know their only option is endzone, so now you can dail up pressure and cover the goaline, exactly what happened on the final play. 

That defensive strategy was perfect by Pees, it's just nerve reckon for us fans because the games on the line and we see yards being racked up. But if guys do their job, which CJ did, you'll usually have positive results. 

most fans are clueless about situational football.

people simply dont understand that a good or bad call is directly tied to execution.

good execution can make a bad call look good and bad execution will make a good call look bad.

a bad call with bad execution will turn into a big play for the other team and a good call with good execution will turn into a big play for you.

 

[PurpleCity5]

I thought Pees did very well today. It was a rough 1st QTR and it takes a lot to change that. He was bringing a lot of pressure and really got the hits on McCrown that made him very uncomfortable. 

Sometimes, players got to do their  JOB. Get a good angle, wrap up and get the sack/tackle! Too many times today that happened. Za'Darius beat his man for what looked like an easy sacked on McCrown but completely whiffed on i, and it resulted in a 47 yard catch. Webb took an awful angle on Crowell and made it easy for him to run past him. Orr also missed a tackle on Hawkins that would have put an end to their first scoring drive. I think Jimmy also missed a tackle to on Coleman. 

 

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, Bandwagon said:

I too want to Pees gone and this time I think we have a solid replacement in Frazier..

On Forsett, as much as an amazing person he is.. I've never been a fan of him. Yes he had an amazing season in 14 but thats because of Gary Kubiak. I've always been skeptical on forsett the second Kubiak ditched us. Our running game is so trash and honestly we're not going to get anywhere if we dont fix our running game and also a little on our passing game. We're barely using the amazing talent we have at WR and TE (despite the poopy drops today)

So Leslie Frazier coaches the secondary right? And which unit of the defense do you think was the worst today by a wide margin?

So we're going to replace Pees with the head of the unit that I think is quite easily the worst unit on our defense?

I mean I like Leslie Frazier, but just find it ironic that as much as we bash assistant coaches for their units, we're so quick to promote somebody from a unit that I think is the worst on our defense.

Strikes me as odd...

[rmcjacket23]

9 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Again we're talking about situational football and results. You really don't worry about the Browns racking up yards in that situation because you are defending against a TD not a FG. It's not abandoning your gameplan, it's playing situational football. It's the same as saying, oh the offense is moving the ball well by running and hitting play action, why all of the sudden switch up and go uptempo/no huddle in 2 minute? Because it's what the situation called for. 

The biggest play on that final drive was a 16 yard play to Hawkins. Again it was 4th and 3 when the Coleman play happened. The players were in position to just MAKE THE TACKLE!!!! if they make the tackle in bounds with 27 seconds and the clock running, the Browns are scrambling to get everyone set and you'll probably run another 7-10 seconds. But that didn't happen, they got out of bounds and was able to huddle up to regroup. 

The idea in that situation is to use the field as an extra defender. Once they called their final timeout, you basically give them the middle of the field so completed passes runs more clock. Once they get down near the 30, you can use the endzone as an extra defender because it'll be tougher to get behind the coverage and again any catch in bounds runs more clock with less than 20 seconds to play. Once you get them down there, you basically know their only option is endzone, so now you can dail up pressure and cover the goaline, exactly what happened on the final play. 

That defensive strategy was perfect by Pees, it's just nerve reckon for us fans because the games on the line and we see yards being racked up. But if guys do their job, which CJ did, you'll usually have positive results. 

Up until we had some missed tackles and allowed their receivers to get of bounds, I have virtually no issue with the last drive defensively. Would have liked a bit more penetration, but you're never rushing more than 4 there, and its late in the game.

[52liveforever]

1 hour ago, The Raven said:

Pees called a great game -- again -- aside from the last drive. And the Browns' success on that drive has a lot more to do with our complete inability to get pressure with four. We desperately need Doom back. We need ZDS and Judon to get up to speed. 

What makes you say ZDS and Judon need to get up to speed? they are getting pressure regularly. Hate to say it but I think we missed Upshaw today. The edge setting is where we were lacking and Dumervil is not the answer for that.

[The Raven]

1 minute ago, 52liveforever said:

What makes you say ZDS and Judon need to get up to speed? they are getting pressure regularly. Hate to say it but I think we missed Upshaw today. The edge setting is where we were lacking and Dumervil is not the answer for that.

Dude, not even close. Aside from ONE play, which was the fault of our inside backers, our run D was stellar.

How many sacks and hits did ZDS and Judon get? They aren't getting regular pressure by any means. Jernigan had more pressures and hits than both of them.

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, 52liveforever said:

What makes you say ZDS and Judon need to get up to speed? they are getting pressure regularly. Hate to say it but I think we missed Upshaw today. The edge setting is where we were lacking and Dumervil is not the answer for that.

I didn't think McClellan was particularly good today. Not sure this starting role with this much playing time is really whats best for our defense.