The Good, Bad and Awful week 2 vs Browns.

[The Raven]

3 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Yeah, I think I get it. 

But quick question- if you're pulling more in the gap scheme, how is that not favorable for someone like Zuttah or Wagner who should be at an advantage from an athleticism standpoint? Like, we have them pegged purely as zone blocking scheme guys (which I can see), but wouldn't the gap scheme at least be a good middle ground?

I would agree with that, for sure. In fact, the gap scheme sort of developed from the Wing T offense, which was designed for smaller linemen that could move fast. The issue is that on the main gap plays (power and trap), both of these positions are supposed to down block. On power/trap, the center down blocks on the nose and the RT down blocks on the 3 tech DT. It's relatively rare for centers or tackles to pull.

It's definitely a good middle ground, though, and I think that's why we're beginning to use it more. 

Edited September 18, 2016 by The Raven

[BmoreBird22]

4 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yes and no. Their offensive line was bad and their defense was garbage, but he still had Doug Martin and two outstanding receivers to throw to, both of which had thousand yard seasons that year.

In terms of "weapons", as good as what he had in Chicago in my opinion.

Fair enough. I think it's just the level of expectations. In Chicago, he was just there to hold over for Cutler the next season. In Tampa, they're expecting playoffs and asking a lot of him. 

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL said:

Its the SYSTEM. Somehow, (insert qb in) Patriots system no matter who is under center, can move the ball at will. Why is that? The System works. 

WHAT IS THE RAVENS SYSTEM?

It seems to change every year, but no matter what year it is, its inconsistent.

ARE WE NOT A COPYCAT LEAGUE?

It seems to me, if something works well year after year, and there is plenty of game film on it, why not copy it? Why reinvent the wheel? Do what works, scrap what does not. 

How many slants and crosses do the better teams run compared to the Ravens? Tons. Why do they run them? Because it gets the ball out quicker when pressure is in your face to a closer target you can see. 

I think you're about to find out that there's a HUGE difference between Garappolo and Jacoby Brissett.

Might want to hold off on that "Pats move the ball at will regardless of QB" notion for a few more weeks.

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, The Raven said:

I would agree with that, for sure. In fact, the gap scheme sort of developed from the Wing T offense, which was designed for smaller linemen that could move fast. The issue is that on the main gap plays (power and trap), both of these positions are supposed to down block. On power/trap, the center down blocks on the nose and the RT down blocks on the 3 tech DT.

It's definitely a good middle ground, though, and I think that's why we're beginning to use it more.

So, if the Ravens had more physical play from the center (possibly Jensen), do you think we'd see a pretty big improvement or is it more than just Zuttah? 

I mean, even I can see Zuttah is just flat out getting beat.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

11 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

The Browns also had an injured QB. Everyone wants to see unicorns and rainbows while ignoring that tiny detail. Plus, this was McCown. We will not get away with that sloppy play against Cincy, Pitt, NE, etc.

 

 

Yea but how did he get injured?? The effect of consistent big hits as he released the ball. Not like he had a freak accident that helped us. 

We sent the message that if u want to stand in there and take shots down field we're going to blast you. Might hit some big plays, but over time it will wear you down and render you ineffective. 

Thats something Jaws talks about all the time. Pressure isn't all about sacks. Getting there in time to keep delivering big hits may have an even bigger effect on the game than notching a couple sacks. 

We EARNED the advantage of an injured McCown. Wasn't handed to us. 

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

So, if the Ravens had more physical play from the center (possibly Jensen), do you think we'd see a pretty big improvement or is it more than just Zuttah? 

I mean, even I can see Zuttah is just flat out getting beat.

Wasn't Urschel practicing all week and considered healthy?

Is he just one of the weaker Olineman on our roster at this point?

[The Raven]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

So, if the Ravens had more physical play from the center (possibly Jensen), do you think we'd see a pretty big improvement or is it more than just Zuttah? 

I mean, even I can see Zuttah is just flat out getting beat.

Really, depends on the system. Jensen isn't mobile enough for me to trust him at center, and his pass protection is suspect, but I think he'd be an improvement with experience. If we move to primarily man and gap, Jensen is definitely an improvement.

But it's more than just him. Wagner doesn't get a lot of push, and Lewis isn't always finishing his blocks.

[Tank 92]

6 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

a call is only as good or bad as the players execution.....

Yeah I'm not sure why this fact is an unknown to many.

[jimmypowder]

6 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Doesn't mean firing him makes the team better either...

It will make the team better just like it did when we fired Cam 

[JoeyFlex5]

18 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

How about Tavon Young who played a great game, made tackles, and played well in coverage and run support. He also played well on ST

Young is a gem. The 4th round of this draft was stellar. If correa and kaufusi never pan out it still could be one of the better classes we've had.

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, jimmypowder said:

It will make the team better just like it did when we fired Cam 

Just like 2013 did right? With the same OC?

[JoeyFlex5]

20 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

The Browns also had an injured QB. Everyone wants to see unicorns and rainbows while ignoring that tiny detail. Plus, this was McCown. We will not get away with that sloppy play against Cincy, Pitt, NE, etc.

We also gave them the Pees' Special at the end, allowing them to take the ball down to the 10 yd line. If not for that "taunting" call (beyond questionable), I have zero confidence we would have stopped them from scoring a TD.

 

 

We hurt mccown by applying tons of pressure. His injury was to his non throwing shoulder and he was seeing ghosts and feeling pressure for nearly the whole game.

Mccown plays us better than any of the qbs you're advertising. The only argument is Dalton who is more or less being carried by green when we face him. 

What argument are you actually trying to make here?

[edthehead]

A win is a win and this was 1 ugly win. and I will take it

Good; referee made a bad call, 

Bad; many people here may hate this

 Forsett is not a strong runner, he does not hit the holes hard and fast, I think West should be 1 and forsett 2

Ugly; gotta be that 1st qtr, we allowed a record breaking 1st Qtr

all in all we came together as a defense and offense , maybe my expectations to high (10/11 win)

or maybe the passing of 1 of our coaches,

RIP coach Brooks,,  

2-0

[Sami84]

2 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Young is a gem. The 4th round of this draft was stellar. If correa and kaufusi never pan out it still could be one of the better classes we've had.

correa has taken the arthur brown mantle as the token 2nd round scrub

[JoeyFlex5]

21 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Well, this is interesting....

 

 

Pro Football FocusVerified account‏@PFF

Ravens top graded players against Browns

RT Ricky Wagner 86.3

TE Dennis Pitta 85.2

S Eric Weddle 84.8

G Marshal Yanda 82.9

 

I didn't think Wagner played that well.

Wagner was the worst player on the field the whole first half... What the hell?

[BmoreBird22]

11 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Wasn't Urschel practicing all week and considered healthy?

Is he just one of the weaker Olineman on our roster at this point?

Urschel is not an athletic player at all. He's pure technique. 

[BmoreBird22]

10 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Really, depends on the system. Jensen isn't mobile enough for me to trust him at center, and his pass protection is suspect, but I think he'd be an improvement with experience. If we move to primarily man and gap, Jensen is definitely an improvement.

But it's more than just him. Wagner doesn't get a lot of push, and Lewis isn't always finishing his blocks.

Lewis on the inside worried me from the standpoint of leverage. He is so tall going against much shorter players with vastly better leverage and lower centers of gravity. I'd rather see him at tackle. 

[The Raven]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

Lewis on the inside worried me from the standpoint of leverage. He is so tall going against much shorter players with vastly better leverage and lower centers of gravity. I'd rather see him at tackle. 

Same, but I think he has promise once he figures out pad level. And also, his height matters less in gap scheme. Need to be more agile in zone. Not many 6'6 men are agile. His biggest issue is finishing blocks in zone plays.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Lewis on the inside worried me from the standpoint of leverage. He is so tall going against much shorter players with vastly better leverage and lower centers of gravity. I'd rather see him at tackle. 

Agreed. Not a natural Guard. If for some reason we are unable to retain Wagner after the season, I think he'd be a prime candidate for the RT spot.

I think his best role is as the 3rd tackle and have him work on both sides so he can backup either spot.

While I suspect we'll be looking for a new center after the season, LG is a spot we may look to address also. 

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, The Raven said:

Same, but I think he has promise once he figures out pad level. And also, his height matters less in gap scheme. Need to be more agile in zone. Not many 6'6 men are agile. His biggest issue is finishing blocks in zone plays.

So, what are the chances Trestman transitions pretty much full time to a gap scheme by seasons end?

[The Raven]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

So, what are the chances Trestman transitions pretty much full time to a gap scheme by seasons end?

Zero, because he's terrible at making adjustments. If he does, it'll be by accident.

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Agreed. Not a natural Guard. If for some reason we are unable to retain Wagner after the season, I think he'd be a prime candidate for the RT spot.

I think his best role is as the 3rd tackle and have him work on both sides so he can backup either spot.

While I suspect we'll be looking for a new center after the season, LG is a spot we may look to address also. 

Yeah, I'm not a huge believer in Urschel at LG if Lewis swings outside and Jensen just seems to get passed over at LG.

[terps85]

37 minutes ago, RavensFan34950 said:

Realistically, that blocked extra point was the play of the game. Without those two points the score would be 23 - 20 and the Browns would only need to kick the FG to tie it up and send it to overtime.

It would have actually been 23-21, which makes it even bigger.

[HoldingCall]

This game shows it's not good to look beyond any team, especially based on previous week results.

 

[Grapple Raven]

The Good:  Steve Smith goes into the top ten all time list as he topped 14,000 career receiving yards in today's win.  Congratulations #89!!!

The American Express card went back on the plane with the team today after an impressive game, thank goodness!  lol

We came out of this game relatively unscathed on the injury front as far as I can tell.

I know we have a lot of weapons, but I have to say I am kind of perplexed as to why Kamar hasn't been utilized more on offense.

We need to iron out a few things and build some chemistry but I feel things will only get better as the season progresses~ Go Ravens!!!

[ellicottraven]

The good - We got a W.

The bad - We barely got a W and don't look good.

The awful - How I feel right now.

[terps85]

I really don't understand the hate for Trestman.  The play he drew up for Moore should have been a TD.  The interception in the endzone intended for Perriman also would have been a TD if Flacco threw it to the outside and didn't underthrow it.  

 

As for the ground game- I think Dixon will be huge when he gets back.  Forsett has great vision, but just doesn't look explosive. West looks like a good change of pace back, but that's about it.

 

Perriman looked really good today.  Got a ton of separation on that dig route on 3rd down that was reviewed and, like I said earlier, got behind Haden on what could have been a TD. Would love to see him and Moore more involved.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

dont like that type of game until the end and the Ravens come up with the win....

[cobrajet]

The Good:

Our Special Teams with the return of the extra point, Tucker nailing some long FG's right down the center, and Hester with some good returns!

Dennis Pitta getting open in the middle of the field for some key catches.

Mike Wallace with 2 nice TD grabs this week. Is he turning out to be a good signing or what?

The Bad:

Our Run Game, Forsett going 37 yards on 14 carries is not a good day.

After he was "The Man" last week, S. Wright gave up a lot of third and long catches to keep drives alive like he did in preseason.

The Awful:

Having to go travel to Cleveland right after you get the news that one of your beloved coaches just lost his battle with cancer. That is just a tough thing to put on a shelf, while you try to win a football game.

 

 

[cobrajet]

1 hour ago, ravensdfan said:

The Browns also had an injured QB. Everyone wants to see unicorns and rainbows while ignoring that tiny detail. Plus, this was McCown. We will not get away with that sloppy play against Cincy, Pitt, NE, etc.

We also gave them the Pees' Special at the end, allowing them to take the ball down to the 10 yd line. If not for that "taunting" call (beyond questionable), I have zero confidence we would have stopped them from scoring a TD.

 

 

I totally understand what you are saying but Josh McCown has played really well against us and my theory is that he understands that playing the Ravens in Cleveland is their Super Bowl. This is the game that will always be circled in red for the Browns. Coming out of this game with a "W" is never going to be a cake walk for us against McCown, who is a tough QB with a strong arm and when motivated, he will stand in the pocket and make accurate passes knowing he is going to take a hit. Maybe it is just me but the Browns receivers also seem to fight just a little bit harder when they play us. Some Ravens fans may not put any stock into what I am saying because the Browns are typically bad and they really expect us to just whoop them, but they always seem to be determined to give us everything they have. Personally, I think our players need to remember that, every single time we play the Browns.