The Good, Bad and Awful week 2 vs Browns.

[RavensFan34950]

Realistically, that blocked extra point was the play of the game. Without those two points the score would be 23 - 20 and the Browns would only need to kick the FG to tie it up and send it to overtime.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, jimmypowder said:

Trestman is a bad play caller . Period. 

I'm hoping this is his last year here . 

 

Coaches don't play.

[Crabcakes&Football]

Hey, we played a great 3 quarters! That 1st quarter though... wow terrible. Big credit to the players and coaches for staying cool and overcoming a 20 point deficit to get the win. Make no mistake, we won't overcome a quarter like that against Pittsburgh, Cincy, New England or even Jacksonville. Must find out what went wrong and fast. 

[BmoreBird22]

Also, one ugly that I haven't seen mentioned is the drops. They were absolutely brutal. They killed a few drives and cost the Ravens a TD. No idea why the dropsies were so bad. Heavy heart from Clarence Brooks? I don't know. Just can't have that show up against better teams because those chances won't always appear.

[jimmypowder]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Coaches don't play.

Doesn't make him a good play caller 

[JoeyFlex5]

27 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

One perplexing issue with the run game is that Trestman likes to run inside runs, but with Zuttah generating no push and often allowing penetration/stuffs, Trestman has to run to the edge. Issue is that Wagner has looked pretty poor and I don't really see the speed in the backs to hit the edge and turn the corner.

Running game needs a boost from the offensive line if they're gonna get better.

That's my issue too. Let's run behind our weakest lineman when everyone knows it's coming.

[GrimCoconut]

How about Tavon Young who played a great game, made tackles, and played well in coverage and run support. He also played well on ST

[ravensdfan]

19 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

From 2nd quarter on, Browns had 166 total yards on offense on 46 plays, an average of 3.6 yards/play. 8 straight scoreless drives, including 5 punts, 2 INTs and a missed FG.

During that stretch, Browns had 40 rushing yards on 17 carries.

The Browns also had an injured QB. Everyone wants to see unicorns and rainbows while ignoring that tiny detail. Plus, this was McCown. We will not get away with that sloppy play against Cincy, Pitt, NE, etc.

We also gave them the Pees' Special at the end, allowing them to take the ball down to the 10 yd line. If not for that "taunting" call (beyond questionable), I have zero confidence we would have stopped them from scoring a TD.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2016 by ravensdfan

[RavensFanMania]

29 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

One perplexing issue with the run game is that Trestman likes to run inside runs, but with Zuttah generating no push and often allowing penetration/stuffs, Trestman has to run to the edge. Issue is that Wagner has looked pretty poor and I don't really see the speed in the backs to hit the edge and turn the corner.

Running game needs a boost from the offensive line if they're gonna get better.

I've noticed this since last year, very early in the season.  Forsett is best in outside runs or stretch zone.  He's in the kubiak shanahan mold of west coast offense, not up the middle

 

[BrownsFan]

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I never got why McCown wasn't given more chances to start in the NFL. He's a 15 year vet who is intelligent, so nothing will surprise him or catch him off guard. He's seen it all and he'll know how to counteract it, to a degree.

He's also clearly got some arm talent to him. No, he's not a Joe Flacco/Matthew Stafford that can make any throw effortlessly, but he's not a Ryan Tannehill/Teddy Bridgewater that cannot make certain throws.

I think the Browns would have been better off not signing RGIII.

I'm going to assume it's his W/L record, which isn't all that wonderful.  I know you shouldn't necessarily be judged by that but it is what it is.  I'm not real certain of his injury history and if that plays into it at all either.

The verdict is still out on RG3 IMO but my guess is Hue felt he could give him some quality seasons if he were back to 100% health; which he was.  McCown is not the long-term answer obviously.  I don't think anyone really knows who is the answer but I wonder about the Kessler option and whether or not they should just give him a chance and see what happens.  It's the never-ending circle because no team wants to admit that it's a rebuilding year and you "want to play your best personnel," yet we all know what this season is for the Browns.

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I never got why McCown wasn't given more chances to start in the NFL. He's a 15 year vet who is intelligent, so nothing will surprise him or catch him off guard. He's seen it all and he'll know how to counteract it, to a degree.

He's also clearly got some arm talent to him. No, he's not a Joe Flacco/Matthew Stafford that can make any throw effortlessly, but he's not a Ryan Tannehill/Teddy Bridgewater that cannot make certain throws.

I think the Browns would have been better off not signing RGIII.

The issue I see is that in a lot of the situations where he's been anointed as "the guy", he hasn't played as well.

You go back to 04 in Arizona where he was "the guy", and he averages like 180 YPG with 11 TDs and 15 turnovers in 14 games.

As a mid-season backup in Chicago he plays well, then he goes and signs to be "the guy" in Tampa in 2014, and he regresses mightily in 11 games, with 11 TDs and 18 turnovers and only 200 YPG passing (and that was just two years ago). 

Then he goes back to basically being a backup last season, and he performs better.

[RavensFanMania]

5 minutes ago, RavensFan34950 said:

Realistically, that blocked extra point was the play of the game. Without those two points the score would be 23 - 20 and the Browns would only need to kick the FG to tie it up and send it to overtime.

Actually it woud be 23-21 and they would have kicked a fg to win it

[Ravenseconbeast]

The good: McCown stopped working after his injury

The bad:  We are going to play better teams than this

The worst:  Joe likes Joe(Haden)

 

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, ravensdfan said:

The Browns also had an injured QB. Everyone wants to see unicorns and rainbows while ignoring that tiny detail. Plus, this was McCown. We will not get away with that sloppy play against Cincy, Pitt, NE, etc.

 

 

Was he healthy enough to be out there playing? If so, I could care less if he was injured or not. How am I supposed to discount an injury when nobody has any earthly idea how much the injury affected his performance?

Yes, we're all aware of that. We've heard that year after year, and yet we often play better against those teams than we do against the Browns.

[The Raven]

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

What is a gap scheme and how does it differ from a man scheme?

Honestly doesn't differ ALL that much. Basically the same thing in terms of technique, but gap running involves more trap blocks and pulls. 

For example, Iso and Lead are your man blocking runs, while Power, Toss, and Counter Trey are your gap blocking runs.

Depending on who you ask, gap and man are the same. The goal of each are the same. Block defenders away from the gap. Technique is the same.

In zone, everyone moves in the same direction, while taking lateral steps to create horizontal movement.

In man/gap, you take vertical steps and you block defenders away from a gap. It's easier to show in a diagram but I'm sure you understand.

[PurpleCity5]

Well, this is interesting....

 

 

Pro Football FocusVerified account‏@PFF

Ravens top graded players against Browns

RT Ricky Wagner 86.3

TE Dennis Pitta 85.2

S Eric Weddle 84.8

G Marshal Yanda 82.9

 

I didn't think Wagner played that well.

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

The issue I see is that in a lot of the situations where he's been anointed as "the guy", he hasn't played as well.

You go back to 04 in Arizona where he was "the guy", and he averages like 180 YPG with 11 TDs and 15 turnovers in 14 games.

As a mid-season backup in Chicago he plays well, then he goes and signs to be "the guy" in Tampa in 2014, and he regresses mightily in 11 games, with 11 TDs and 18 turnovers and only 200 YPG passing (and that was just two years ago). 

Then he goes back to basically being a backup last season, and he performs better.

I can't comment on '04 because I didn't watch football back then, but with the Bucs, they just had vastly less talent. Wasn't that the team that the Ravens blew out by like 30 points? They were just a mess of a team.

I think the big issue for him is he's smart enough and talented enough to play, just not carry a team, and he's been a starter for teams here recently that needed to be carried and he just can't do that. 

[BmoreBird22]

5 minutes ago, BrownsFan said:

I'm going to assume it's his W/L record, which isn't all that wonderful.  I know you shouldn't necessarily be judged by that but it is what it is.  I'm not real certain of his injury history and if that plays into it at all either.

The verdict is still out on RG3 IMO but my guess is Hue felt he could give him some quality seasons if he were back to 100% health; which he was.  McCown is not the long-term answer obviously.  I don't think anyone really knows who is the answer but I wonder about the Kessler option and whether or not they should just give him a chance and see what happens.  It's the never-ending circle because no team wants to admit that it's a rebuilding year and you "want to play your best personnel," yet we all know what this season is for the Browns.

I feel like McCown is exactly what the Browns need because they are such a young team and McCown brings that veteran presence and knowledge that come with being in the league for 15 years.

[Tank 92]

4 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

How about Tavon Young who played a great game, made tackles, and played well in coverage and run support. He also played well on ST

He's a pit bull and has great instincts. Tavon's going to a good one for us for a long time.

[BmoreBird22]

5 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

The Browns also had an injured QB. Everyone wants to see unicorns and rainbows while ignoring that tiny detail. Plus, this was McCown. We will not get away with that sloppy play against Cincy, Pitt, NE, etc.

It was his non-throwing shoulder, so he'd be in pain, but it wouldn't be hindering his play greatly.

[The Raven]

2 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Well, this is interesting....

 

 

Pro Football FocusVerified account‏@PFF

Ravens top graded players against Browns

RT Ricky Wagner 86.3

TE Dennis Pitta 85.2

S Eric Weddle 84.8

G Marshal Yanda 82.9

 

I didn't think Wagner played that well.

He played pretty well on passing downs overall, and in the run game, he did a good job at just not getting beat.

[RavensFan34950]

1 minute ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Well, this is interesting....

 

 

Pro Football FocusVerified account‏@PFF

Ravens top graded players against Browns

RT Ricky Wagner 86.3

TE Dennis Pitta 85.2

S Eric Weddle 84.8

G Marshal Yanda 82.9

 

I didn't think Wagner played that well.

Didn't really get beat at all in pass protection. But I didn't pay attention to his run blocking though

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I can't comment on '04 because I didn't watch football back then, but with the Bucs, they just had vastly less talent. Wasn't that the team that the Ravens blew out by like 30 points? They were just a mess of a team.

I think the big issue for him is he's smart enough and talented enough to play, just not carry a team, and he's been a starter for teams here recently that needed to be carried and he just can't do that. 

Yes and no. Their offensive line was bad and their defense was garbage, but he still had Doug Martin and two outstanding receivers to throw to, both of which had thousand yard seasons that year.

In terms of "weapons", as good as what he had in Chicago in my opinion.

[PurpleCity5]

1 minute ago, The Raven said:

He played pretty well on passing downs overall, and in the run game, he did a good job at just not getting beat.

I didn't think he was effective on the ground as far as run blocking goes. Surely didn't give up much against the pass. I just didn't expect such a high grade. 

[BmoreBird22]

3 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Honestly doesn't differ ALL that much. Basically the same thing in terms of technique, but gap running involves more trap blocks and pulls. 

For example, Iso and Lead are your man blocking runs, while Power, Toss, and Counter Trey are your gap blocking runs.

Depending on who you ask, gap and man are the same. The goal of each are the same. Block defenders away from the gap. Technique is the same.

In zone, everyone moves in the same direction, while taking lateral steps to create horizontal movement.

In man/gap, you take vertical steps and you block defenders away from a gap. It's easier to show in a diagram but I'm sure you understand.

Yeah, I think I get it. 

But quick question- if you're pulling more in the gap scheme, how is that not favorable for someone like Zuttah or Wagner who should be at an advantage from an athleticism standpoint? Like, we have them pegged purely as zone blocking scheme guys (which I can see), but wouldn't the gap scheme at least be a good middle ground?

[BrownsFan]

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I feel like McCown is exactly what the Browns need because they are such a young team and McCown brings that veteran presence and knowledge that come with being in the league for 15 years.

I think to a degree - yes you are right.  But that's what he was supposed to be last year and he got hurt.  I don't necessarily think he shouldn't be the starting QB going forward this season but I just wish for once a team would be honest and just admit that a season is basically a rebuild season and it then gives you the leeway to let a Cody Kessler or someone else go out there and give it a shot.  You just never know what you're going to have unless you let them play.

I think McCown has been a great leader for them but at some point you have to make the decision to move on because he is not your long-term answer.

[Tru11]

10 minutes ago, jimmypowder said:

Doesn't make him a good play caller 

a call is only as good or bad as the players execution.....

[HoldingCall]

Good: No serious injuries. The will to win. 
Bad: The defense and offense in the first quarter. The interceptions.  
Ugly: Run game. Run game blocking. The ugly win.
 

[rmcjacket23]

13 minutes ago, jimmypowder said:

Doesn't make him a good play caller 

Doesn't mean firing him makes the team better either...

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

Its the SYSTEM. Somehow, (insert qb in) Patriots system no matter who is under center, can move the ball at will. Why is that? The System works. 

WHAT IS THE RAVENS SYSTEM?

It seems to change every year, but no matter what year it is, its inconsistent.

ARE WE NOT A COPYCAT LEAGUE?

It seems to me, if something works well year after year, and there is plenty of game film on it, why not copy it? Why reinvent the wheel? Do what works, scrap what does not. 

How many slants and crosses do the better teams run compared to the Ravens? Tons. Why do they run them? Because it gets the ball out quicker when pressure is in your face to a closer target you can see.