The Good, Bad and Awful week 2 vs Browns.

[Maryland]

In general, our pass-rushers need to finish their pressures by getting sacks. I know not every pressure can be a sack, but it seems like it's happening too often that a guy gets all over the QB without actually getting the sack, and then the QB gets a pass off (in each game so far, at least 1 very deep pass completion off a slipped sack).

I would like to see Trestman run a higher percentage of plays under center. There was one situation in particular where snapping the ball under center for a play-action pass would have been perfect. It was on our final set of downs before settling for the the field goal instead of a game-ending TD. After getting some successful runs on their defense and being in an obvious run situation, a play-action pass would have been perfect on first down, since everyone expects another run. Instead, Trestman predictably ran out of the shotgun for no gain. 

Situational football needs to be improved. Forsett needs to stay in-bounds on our final drive of the game to take the clock down to the 2-min warning (or force a timeout). Wright needs to protect the sideline when playing prevent defense--that missed tackle was just inexcusable. I questioned eschewing the field goal early in the game for a failed 4th down attempt. I never like the idea of doing this from the 30-ish yard line, since, even if you convert the down, it's hardly a sure-thing you score a TD anyway (there's still a lot of yards to go). It was way too early in the game to be chasing points; a field goal makes it a 2-possession game. But I know to expect this from Harbaugh--that's his MO, and I'm ok with it. It seems to work more in his favor than against. 

I find it unlikely that Correa is a worse pass-rusher than Albert McClellan. McClellan is average at best at getting pressure, but Pees had him out there for every snap (I think) on the Browns' final drive. It's almost like they're sitting Correa just on principle. Surely we have a better edge-rusher than McClellan. Even Carter is probably better. 

As an Orioles fan, watching Wright play CB reminds me of watching Ubaldo pitch--he's either really good or really bad.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Maryland

[OUravensfan]

14 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yes, obviously I'm assuming no penalty. Most NFL plays don't have penalties.

How about an offensive penalty that requires a 10 second runoff, since they had no timeouts? You know the rules, right? If we're going to assume penalties, lets make sure we assume ALL penalties, not just the one's that fit your narrative.

I'm more of the what's most likely to happen kind of guy.

They probably would miss it and then Jernigan (Dumervile) would grab  Mckown's (Bortles) face mask and give them a free play on the 1 yard line 

[berad]

12 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

The indifferent......I wish Joe Haden was a Raven. 

He gets toasted his fair share but you could do a lot worse

15 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yes, except none of them ever take the time to make a message board post second-guessing a decision that actually worked.

There en lies the difference. 

Do people usually do that? I've seen a lot of posters say things like 'Yeah, it was risky/ballsy, but we got it done' or something. In the end, does it really matter?

[berad]

11 hours ago, baltimorefan328 said:

I don't know why I like this so much, but one overlooked thing from the game: On Tavon Young's return of the extra point, the first 2 guys to chase him down in the end zone were Judon and Canady. It's such a grind and the season is such a grueling process I just really enjoyed seeing two other rookies chase after a fellow rookie to congratulate him on a big play. Probably making something out of nothing, it was just fun to see 3 guys drafted together support each other like that on the field

Good observation, rookie classes usually bond because of their shared experience and they've spent more time with each other than others. A lot of them room together before they get settled, too. Stanley and Lewis have bonded, as well.

[rmcjacket23]

14 minutes ago, berad said:

He gets toasted his fair share but you could do a lot worse

Do people usually do that? I've seen a lot of posters say things like 'Yeah, it was risky/ballsy, but we got it done' or something. In the end, does it really matter?

Matters precisely as much as hindsight analysis and second-guessing does.

[757RavensFan]

Don't know if it was posted in here yet, but here's @Filmstudy offensive line grades and notes. 

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/09/20/filmstudy/ravens-browns-week-2-2016-ol-grades/

[Tornado700]

16 hours ago, OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL said:

We scored 25 unanswered points, after getting our butts handed to us. The D shut the door, or should I say slammed it shut. It wasnt pretty at first, but good teams overcome adversity. We WON the game, quit fussing.

 I'm not denying anything you just stated. Just made a statement of fact. The Ravens were very lucky to have gotten that call and I can't blame the Browns fans for booing the call.

[redrum52]

Josh McCown looks like Ivan Drago.

[usmccharles]

53 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

Josh McCown looks like Ivan Drago.

I thought the exact same thing 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

1 hour ago, redrum52 said:

Josh McCown looks like Ivan Drago.

But he only breaks us sadly

[BmoreRavens732]

1 hour ago, redrum52 said:

Josh McCown looks like Ivan Drago.

Finally somebody else sees it ?

[ALI624]

"If he dies, he dies."

[frozen joe flacco fan]

 

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 4:14 PM, Cillmatic said:

1. Ravens love to play down to the competition

2. Weddle is great

3. Joe is infallible to half of the people on this forum

4. Our run game is BAD

5. Zuttah cannot be our center

6. There's a ref out there who REALLY likes the Ravebs and hates the Browns ("taunting" call)

1. In sports, it is not uncommon for a team to play up or down to the level of competition. Sad but true.

2. Don't meddle with Weddle.

3. Joe's not infallible but he is unflappable. Some believe the Pope is infallible but that's arguable.

4. Could be worse. I believe it will improve once the O-line gets it together.

5. For better or for worse, he is our center. Get used to it.

6. Maybe so but there's plenty of Zebras out there who have had an ax to grind with the Ravens since the Ray Rice domestic violence thing. Hopefully, that's behind us finally.   

[Tank 92]

9 hours ago, berad said:

He gets toasted his fair share but you could do a lot worse

Haden's a baller, plays aggressive and with fire and passion. He's the kinda guy you want on your team. 

[Moderator 3]

1 hour ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

 

6. Maybe so but there's plenty of Zebras out there who have had an ax to grind with the Ravens since the Ray Rice domestic violence thing. Hopefully, that's behind us finally.   

It's been going on a lot longer than that.  Does "malice in his heart" ring a bell? I think Billick's destain for the officials got us on their poop list.

[arnie_uk]

seriously complaining about the refs after the taunting call?

[Filmstudy]

23 hours ago, Maryland said:

In general, our pass-rushers need to finish their pressures by getting sacks. I know not every pressure can be a sack, but it seems like it's happening too often that a guy gets all over the QB without actually getting the sack, and then the QB gets a pass off (in each game so far, at least 1 very deep pass completion off a slipped sack).

I would like to see Trestman run a higher percentage of plays under center. There was one situation in particular where snapping the ball under center for a play-action pass would have been perfect. It was on our final set of downs before settling for the the field goal instead of a game-ending TD. After getting some successful runs on their defense and being in an obvious run situation, a play-action pass would have been perfect on first down, since everyone expects another run. Instead, Trestman predictably ran out of the shotgun for no gain. 

Situational football needs to be improved. Forsett needs to stay in-bounds on our final drive of the game to take the clock down to the 2-min warning (or force a timeout). Wright needs to protect the sideline when playing prevent defense--that missed tackle was just inexcusable. I questioned eschewing the field goal early in the game for a failed 4th down attempt. I never like the idea of doing this from the 30-ish yard line, since, even if you convert the down, it's hardly a sure-thing you score a TD anyway (there's still a lot of yards to go). It was way too early in the game to be chasing points; a field goal makes it a 2-possession game. But I know to expect this from Harbaugh--that's his MO, and I'm ok with it. It seems to work more in his favor than against. 

I find it unlikely that Correa is a worse pass-rusher than Albert McClellan. McClellan is average at best at getting pressure, but Pees had him out there for every snap (I think) on the Browns' final drive. It's almost like they're sitting Correa just on principle. Surely we have a better edge-rusher than McClellan. Even Carter is probably better. 

As an Orioles fan, watching Wright play CB reminds me of watching Ubaldo pitch--he's either really good or really bad.

Outstanding points, Maryland.  I agree with every one.

Regarding McClellan, Pees has expanded his 2-down edge setting role to a large number of 3rd downs (he played 44 of 59 snaps).  Albert is a liability whether rushing the passer or dropping to coverage as he did 10 times (those were not all on 3rd down, but they were all pass plays).  

The big missing ingredient versus the Browns was the dime.  Why practice it, have Levine play so well, then fail to use it against a team that is targeting your LBs in coverage?  Levine in for Orr in the dime would have been a big benefit and if the Ravens "defensive versatility" mantra from preseason was true, Orr could stay in at OLB for McClellan.  If you want to read more of my complaints about the 3rd/4th down defensive performance, my notes are here:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/09/19/filmstudy/defensive-notes-vs-browns-week-2-2016/

A couple of highlights:

• The Browns ran 16 plays on 3rd down/4th down and averaged 11.3 YPP.  On the 9 conversions, the average distance to go was 7.0 and the average yards gained was 19.0.  The Browns did not simply manufacture a bunch of 3rd and short opportunities and convert a high percentage.  These were long attempts and longer conversions.
• Tavon Young walked out of that 3rd-down cesspool without a mark.  He was simply outstanding despite the fact the rest of the defense was awful on the 16 3rd/4th down plays (the bulk of his responsibility set).  Young took Hawkins completely out of the game when covering him.
• I think folks generally saw how dominant Michael Pierce was, but here were my notes on him:  I scored Michael Pierce (18 snaps) for 3 pressure events. He overpowered Joel Bitonio to the outside for his first career sack (Q4, 9:33). He had the first hit on McCown (Q1, 12:30) when he beat Cam Erving and rolled McCown over traffic behind him for one of the hardest QHs you’ll ever see. I was amazed McCown got up from it, but he would endure 7 more knockdowns, most of which were almost as punishing. In a game where the Ravens allowed 6.6 yards per snap as a team, they allowed just 1.7 YPP with Pierce in the game and 8.7 YPP without him. An illuminating coming-of-age moment came on the final drive when Pierce was inserted for the first 2 plays. In that situation, you expect someone who can make a pass rush contribution to be in, which is not normally a NT. In addition, to that point Pierce had never played a snap without Brandon Williams lined up next to him.
• Terrell Suggs blew up 2 run plays in Hall-of-Fame fashion (Q4, 15:00 and Q4, 10:09), in each case making pulling linemen look very bad.

 

[Filmstudy]

On 9/19/2016 at 5:49 PM, ellicottraven said:

Anybody else wondering why Correa hasn't progressed enough for snaps on the defense? Is it because there are better players out there or because he isn't up to speed on the defense and is probably overwhelmed and overthinks on D? Either way, it is something to watch out for especially considering the plight of Arthur Brown.

I'm not worried about Correa in a Brownian sense just yet.  Brown was inactive for 12 of 16 games in 2014 and was active for only 34 of 48 RS games during his tenure. 

Correa is active and playing ST snaps.  He's played reasonably well in PS, but had the misfortune to be outplayed by another rookie OLB, Matt Judon.  Kamalei's first chance will probably come due to injury, but I expect he'll have a significantly more impactful defensive career that Arthur Brown.

[ellicottraven]

5 hours ago, Filmstudy said:

I'm not worried about Correa in a Brownian sense just yet.  Brown was inactive for 12 of 16 games in 2014 and was active for only 34 of 48 RS games during his tenure. 

Correa is active and playing ST snaps.  He's played reasonably well in PS, but had the misfortune to be outplayed by another rookie OLB, Matt Judon.  Kamalei's first chance will probably come due to injury, but I expect he'll have a significantly more impactful defensive career that Arthur Brown.

I tend to agree. One can't discount the fact that he played the majority of his snaps as ILB in TC either. Perhaps, he didn't get enough snaps at OLB to supplant Judon who I think is going to be special anyway. Hopefully, we see him on defense sometime soon. He is a tough kid no doubt.

[rmw10]

@Filmstudy curious to get your thoughts since you obviously watch every single play.

Does it seem that a big part of the defense this year is allowing Jernigan to get his 1 on 1 matchups?  He's still getting penetration even when he is 2 gapping, but it seems to be that they have other guys around him eating the blocks, allowing him to knife through and make the play.  Definitely looks to me that we're using a variety of different defensive philosophies and tendencies this year.

[Filmstudy]

29 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

@Filmstudy curious to get your thoughts since you obviously watch every single play.

Does it seem that a big part of the defense this year is allowing Jernigan to get his 1 on 1 matchups?  He's still getting penetration even when he is 2 gapping, but it seems to be that they have other guys around him eating the blocks, allowing him to knife through and make the play.  Definitely looks to me that we're using a variety of different defensive philosophies and tendencies this year.

He's the centerpiece of the pass rush who they frequently use as the only down lineman in a 6-man front on obvious passing downs.  By feel, I'd say Jernigan has been greenlit most of the pass snaps.  Versus the Bills, the Ravens used extremely disciplined rush lanes on the inside, almost 2-gapping into the pocket. to contain Taylor.  That created slower compression, but was effective nonetheless, because Tyrod was uncomfortable with the containment.

Versus the Browns, the Ravens didn't concern themselves with McCown running and left Pierce, Jernigan, and the edge rushers free to rush without constraint that I can see.

With what happened to McCown, I think this is a reasonable blueprint against pocket passers.  The Browns OL isn't bad and the Ravens beat their starting QB to a pulp with pressure.  If I were an OC trying to protect a pocket passer with a mediocre line, I know I'd game plan to reduce the number of knockdowns, even if I had to give up some big plays to do so. 

[Ravensfan23]

9 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

I tend to agree. One can't discount the fact that he played the majority of his snaps as ILB in TC either. Perhaps, he didn't get enough snaps at OLB to supplant Judon who I think is going to be special anyway. Hopefully, we see him on defense sometime soon. He is a tough kid no doubt.

I don't think enough people take into account how tough it is to move to another position that you aren't used to. The Ravens clearly see him as an ILB/OLB hybrid in the mold they are using McCellan right now, but it's a transition for him right now. Boise didn't develop this kid at all, they just kinda let him run around and make plays against guys he was better than. In the NFL everyone is good enough to at least be in the NFL. So he'll have to use more technique than just being a Tasmanian Devin type player. He isn't a pure pass rusher and Orr has done a really good job covering at ILB, so it's no surprise that Correa isn't seeing snaps other than him being a 2nd round pick. I really think he was a pick for the future but the Ravens couldn't afford him not being there in the 3rd round. I love the fact the Ravens are making him cut his teeth on ST and I love the fact that he's answering the challenge. Guys like Brown and Kruger didn't seem to answer that ST bell. 

 

3 hours ago, Filmstudy said:

He's the centerpiece of the pass rush who they frequently use as the only down lineman in a 6-man front on obvious passing downs.  By feel, I'd say Jernigan has been greenlit most of the pass snaps.  Versus the Bills, the Ravens used extremely disciplined rush lanes on the inside, almost 2-gapping into the pocket. to contain Taylor.  That created slower compression, but was effective nonetheless, because Tyrod was uncomfortable with the containment.

Versus the Browns, the Ravens didn't concern themselves with McCown running and left Pierce, Jernigan, and the edge rushers free to rush without constraint that I can see.

With what happened to McCown, I think this is a reasonable blueprint against pocket passers.  The Browns OL isn't bad and the Ravens beat their starting QB to a pulp with pressure.  If I were an OC trying to protect a pocket passer with a mediocre line, I know I'd game plan to reduce the number of knockdowns, even if I had to give up some big plays to do so. 

The short passing offense is how teams will try and beat the pressure. But if the pressure continues to come from the interior it'll still be punishing for QBs. Doom coming back healthy could really spell trouble for offenses. However I still saw too  many missed tackled in the Browns games. Stopping the run and forcing long 3rd downs only works when you can make the tackles to get them off the field. 

[Tornado700]

16 hours ago, arnie_uk said:

seriously complaining about the refs after the taunting call?

Put your eyeglasses on Bud. Nobody here was complaining about the taunting call.

[Tank 92]

Huh?

[Filmstudy]

6 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

 

The short passing offense is how teams will try and beat the pressure. But if the pressure continues to come from the interior it'll still be punishing for QBs. Doom coming back healthy could really spell trouble for offenses. However I still saw too  many missed tackled in the Browns games. Stopping the run and forcing long 3rd downs only works when you can make the tackles to get them off the field. 

This.

But I do like the fact that Williams/Pierce/Guy have got the Ravens to 3rd down.  And the issue on 3rd down can be addressed (don't read this as "fixed") with a healthy Dumervil and commitment to the dime.

[Ravensfan23]

6 hours ago, Filmstudy said:

This.

But I do like the fact that Williams/Pierce/Guy have got the Ravens to 3rd down.  And the issue on 3rd down can be addressed (don't read this as "fixed") with a healthy Dumervil and commitment to the dime.

agreed. Also i'm not ready to push that replace Wright button, he had a bad game vs a bad matchup for him, but I do think that inserting Will Davis(if truly healthy) into the defense alone with Doom and Levine will really help with 3rd down issues. It was only 1 game last year and a few preseason games this year, but if i remember correctly Davis was not only a solid tackler but his confidence allowed him to play tight coverage on WRs even in the slot on 3rd downs to make those 3-6 yards completions even tougher. I though Tavon did well tackling, Webb and Weddle for the most part tackle well enough. I'd really like to see Davis and Levine paired with Young on 3rd downs. 

[January J]

1 hour ago, Ravensfan23 said:

agreed. Also i'm not ready to push that replace Wright button, he had a bad game vs a bad matchup for him, but I do think that inserting Will Davis(if truly healthy) into the defense alone with Doom and Levine will really help with 3rd down issues. It was only 1 game last year and a few preseason games this year, but if i remember correctly Davis was not only a solid tackler but his confidence allowed him to play tight coverage on WRs even in the slot on 3rd downs to make those 3-6 yards completions even tougher. I though Tavon did well tackling, Webb and Weddle for the most part tackle well enough. I'd really like to see Davis and Levine paired with Young on 3rd downs. 

I'd like to see davis as well. Kind of threw me off to see him inactive. I was under the impression he was a lock for that slot position. He's  been extremely solid every  game I've seen him play ( esp in coverage) and I've never seen him give up a big play or miss an easy tackle. I guess the coaches see something I don't though -so I won't question it too much. I do like the fact that they are throwing tavon out there early into the fire to JumpStart  his development. Against the bills and browns its all good- but thats not gonna fly for too much longer though as the competition gets a little steeper. But yeah like you said I'd like to see  Davis more on third downs to utilize his tight coverage skills and help get us off the feild instead of giving them those easy dink and dunk crossing routes in the middle of the feild that teams kill us with. Ive seen  davis break those up on several occasions with perfect form like a thing of beauty.

Edited September 22, 2016 by January J

[Ravensfan23]

20 minutes ago, January J said:

I'd like to see davis as well. Kind of threw me off to see him inactive. I was under the impression he was a lock for that slot position. He's  been solid every  game I've seen him play and I've never seen him give up a big play or miss an easy tackle. I guess the coaches see something I don't though -so I won't question it too much. I like the fact that they are throwing tavon out there into the fire early  to JumpStart   his development. Against the bills and browns its all good- but thats not gonna fly for too much longer as the competition gets a little steeper though.

Tavon has done really well. Powers coming back will shouldn't effect him much, it'll probably affect Levine's snaps more. I think Davis and Powers will be active this game, the Jags have a much better pass game than we've faced so far. 

[January J]

14 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Tavon has done really well. Powers coming back will shouldn't effect him much, it'll probably affect Levine's snaps more. I think Davis and Powers will be active this game, the Jags have a much better pass game than we've faced so far. 

Yes Young has. I'd say he has certainly exceeded expectations. Not sure what to expect from powers. Reports were he was lighting it up in camp- but we all witnessed him get burnt in preseason on several occasions. Maybe he was playing through a nagging injury or somethin- but that cant always be an excuse. The jags will definitely be the biggest test for our secondary so far. We will have our hands full that's for sure. But either way I like the idea of bringing in Davis on third down in obvious passing situations.

Edited September 22, 2016 by January J

[redrum52]

On 9/21/2016 at 3:39 AM, Filmstudy said:

Outstanding points, Maryland.  I agree with every one.

Regarding McClellan, Pees has expanded his 2-down edge setting role to a large number of 3rd downs (he played 44 of 59 snaps).  Albert is a liability whether rushing the passer or dropping to coverage as he did 10 times (those were not all on 3rd down, but they were all pass plays).  

The big missing ingredient versus the Browns was the dime.  Why practice it, have Levine play so well, then fail to use it against a team that is targeting your LBs in coverage?  Levine in for Orr in the dime would have been a big benefit and if the Ravens "defensive versatility" mantra from preseason was true, Orr could stay in at OLB for McClellan.  If you want to read more of my complaints about the 3rd/4th down defensive performance, my notes are here:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/09/19/filmstudy/defensive-notes-vs-browns-week-2-2016/

A couple of highlights:

• The Browns ran 16 plays on 3rd down/4th down and averaged 11.3 YPP.  On the 9 conversions, the average distance to go was 7.0 and the average yards gained was 19.0.  The Browns did not simply manufacture a bunch of 3rd and short opportunities and convert a high percentage.  These were long attempts and longer conversions.
• Tavon Young walked out of that 3rd-down cesspool without a mark.  He was simply outstanding despite the fact the rest of the defense was awful on the 16 3rd/4th down plays (the bulk of his responsibility set).  Young took Hawkins completely out of the game when covering him.
• I think folks generally saw how dominant Michael Pierce was, but here were my notes on him:  I scored Michael Pierce (18 snaps) for 3 pressure events. He overpowered Joel Bitonio to the outside for his first career sack (Q4, 9:33). He had the first hit on McCown (Q1, 12:30) when he beat Cam Erving and rolled McCown over traffic behind him for one of the hardest QHs you’ll ever see. I was amazed McCown got up from it, but he would endure 7 more knockdowns, most of which were almost as punishing. In a game where the Ravens allowed 6.6 yards per snap as a team, they allowed just 1.7 YPP with Pierce in the game and 8.7 YPP without him. An illuminating coming-of-age moment came on the final drive when Pierce was inserted for the first 2 plays. In that situation, you expect someone who can make a pass rush contribution to be in, which is not normally a NT. In addition, to that point Pierce had never played a snap without Brandon Williams lined up next to him.
• Terrell Suggs blew up 2 run plays in Hall-of-Fame fashion (Q4, 15:00 and Q4, 10:09), in each case making pulling linemen look very bad.

 

Was just watching the coach film because I wanted to key in in Jimmy.  As I got to the 4th I realized I didn't think I had seen any plays made on the slot guy.  Young did an incredible job in the and I realized when Jimmy is man against his guys, qbs don't even seem to look his way most the time.