Tracking Flacco's Progress

[flynismo]

25 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

You can pretty much cross off any ravens franchise records b/c Flacco has been in Ravens uniform longer than any QB ravens ever had.  He should have all records beaten by now.

And team records cross those off too.  

How short does your 'list' gets after that when comparing it to other QBs?   Don't go berserk and result to insulting folks.   Just answer the questions.  Thanks!

Oh and you want to compare him to other QBs? How about Philip Rivers? And really, that isn't even fair -- you consider Flacco to be a mediocre, overpaid blowhard, so I should be comparing him to people like Alex Smith and Dalton.

NFL records

• Rivers set an NFL record for completion percentage (83%) for a quarterback who also threw for over 400 yards (401)
• Most consecutive games with 400 yards passing (2; tied with 9 others)
• Most touchdowns between a single Quarterback and Tight End (77), Antonio Gates)
• Most consecutive games with a passer rating above 120 (5)

 

Or, how about we compare him to Big Ben?

NFL records

• Most regular season wins in a season, rookie QB – 13 (2004)^[92]
• Longest regular season win streak to start a career for a NFL QB – 15 games (won all 13 starts in the 2004 season, won first 2 games of the 2005 season)^[93]
• Most wins as a starting quarterback in first five NFL seasons (reg. season only) – 51 (from 2004–2008)^[38]
• Highest completion percentage, rookie season – 66.4% (2004)^[94]
• Highest single-game completion percentage, rookie season (min. 20 attempts) – 84.0% (completed 21/25 passes at Dallas on 10/17/2004)^[95]
• Most games with a completion percentage of 70.0% or higher, rookie season (min. 10 attempts) – 6 (2004)^[96]
• Most games with a completion percentage of 80.0% or higher, single season (min. 10 attempts) – 4 (2007)^[97]
• (Tie) Most touchdown passes, Monday Night Football game – 5 (11/5/2007 vs. Baltimore Ravens)^[93]
• First QB to start two Conference Championship games in first two seasons in the NFL (2004 & 2005)^[93]
• Youngest starting QB ever to win the Super Bowl (2005; second-youngest QB to play in the Super Bowl, behind Dan Marino)^[98]
• Second quarterback in NFL history, along with Peyton Manning, to register three perfect passing games during the regular season, and the only quarterback to ever register two perfect passing games in one regular season.^[93]
• Lowest passer rating for a Super Bowl winning QB – 22.6 (Completed 9 of 21 passes for zero touchdowns with two interceptions)^[99]

 

I absolutely LOVE that last record that Ben holds, btw. LOL

Edited October 20, 2016 by flynismo

[AsianRice]

11 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

You can pretty much cross off any ravens franchise records b/c Flacco has been in Ravens uniform longer than any QB ravens ever had.  He should have all records beaten by now.

And team records cross those off too.  

How short does your 'list' gets after that when comparing it to other QBs?   Don't go berserk and result to insulting folks.   Just answer the questions.  Thanks!

Which QB are you comparing to? 

In term of playoff winning record, Drew Brees and Rodger wouldn't stand a chance cuz Drew has 6-5 in playoff and Rodger has 7-6 in playoff. Guess what Flacco's record in playoff? How about comparing your beloved Andy, Romo, Carson Palmer, or Matt Ryan? all of these guys combined playoff records wouldn't sniff Joe's record.

Then you would say Brees has monster stats in term of yards and TDs. You'd like it in FF...

What's other QB compared to Joe? future HOF Tom Br*dy and Peyton Manning...lol

ELi and Ben has better record than Joe in term of SB wins...

[AsianRice]

7 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Oh and you want to compare him to other QBs? How about Philip Rivers? And really, that isn't even fair -- you consider Flacco to be a mediocre, overpaid blowhard, so I should be comparing him to people like Alex Smith and Dalton.

NFL records

• Rivers set an NFL record for completion percentage (83%) for a quarterback who also threw for over 400 yards (401)
• Most consecutive games with 400 yards passing (2; tied with 9 others)
• Most touchdowns between a single Quarterback and Tight End (77), Antonio Gates)
• Most consecutive games with a passer rating above 120 (5)

 

Or, how about we compare him to Big Ben?

NFL records

• Most regular season wins in a season, rookie QB – 13 (2004)^[92]
• Longest regular season win streak to start a career for a NFL QB – 15 games (won all 13 starts in the 2004 season, won first 2 games of the 2005 season)^[93]
• Most wins as a starting quarterback in first five NFL seasons (reg. season only) – 51 (from 2004–2008)^[38]
• Highest completion percentage, rookie season – 66.4% (2004)^[94]
• Highest single-game completion percentage, rookie season (min. 20 attempts) – 84.0% (completed 21/25 passes at Dallas on 10/17/2004)^[95]
• Most games with a completion percentage of 70.0% or higher, rookie season (min. 10 attempts) – 6 (2004)^[96]
• Most games with a completion percentage of 80.0% or higher, single season (min. 10 attempts) – 4 (2007)^[97]
• (Tie) Most touchdown passes, Monday Night Football game – 5 (11/5/2007 vs. Baltimore Ravens)^[93]
• First QB to start two Conference Championship games in first two seasons in the NFL (2004 & 2005)^[93]
• Youngest starting QB ever to win the Super Bowl (2005; second-youngest QB to play in the Super Bowl, behind Dan Marino)^[98]
• Second quarterback in NFL history, along with Peyton Manning, to register three perfect passing games during the regular season, and the only quarterback to ever register two perfect passing games in one regular season.^[93]
• Lowest passer rating for a Super Bowl winning QB – 22.6 (Completed 9 of 21 passes for zero touchdowns with two interceptions)^[99]

Rivers has 4-5 in playoff....Your facts will choke him....

[flynismo]

1 minute ago, AsianRice said:

Rivers has 4-5 in playoff....Your facts will choke him....

Not at all, won't choke him because he'll make up another excuse not to accept the facts put out right before him

[flynismo]

5 minutes ago, AsianRice said:

What's other QB compared to Joe? future HOF Tom Br*dy and Peyton Manning...lol

lol! My point exactly! He claims Flacco is hot garbage, but he will have to resort to using HOF players to make any kind of counter-argument. And give it time, this is only Flacco's 9th season, wait til he has 15+ years like those guys do.

[Ravenseconbeast]

ESPN: No. 18 (moved down four spots) 
"Remember when Joe Flacco's deep ball ability carried the Ravens to a Super Bowl victory in 2012? Yeah, that's not happening right now. Flacco has completed only 25.9 percent of his passes thrown 20 or more yards downfield this season, ranking 29th in the NFL."

[Virginia 55]

On 10/11/2016 at 0:42 PM, callahan09 said:

The difference is, Flacco had to do an awful lot to get his.  Those other guys were more along for the ride as a great team & defense took care of business to pave the way.

Flacco had to overcome a defense that gave up 22 points per game in the playoffs, those other 3 guys' teams gave up just 5.8, 12.3, and 12.3 points per game respectivley.  During the Super Bowl, Flacco had to overcome a defense that allowed 31 points.  No Super Bowl winning team has EVER given up more points that that in the Super Bowl.

Flacco had a +11 TD/INT differential, those other guys were +2, +2, and +5 respectively.  Flacco threw for 285 yards per game.  Those 3 other guys combined for an average of less than 193 yards per game.

It's completely irrelevant to mention them when talking about Flacco.  Because the implication is that those are guys who it's irrelevant that they are Super Bowl Winning QBs, presumably because they had little to do with their own victories, being on great teams with great defenses and being asked to do very little.  Flacco on the other hand was absolutely required to be *PERFECT* in those playoffs.  If he hadn't been perfect, thrown for 285 yards per game, had ZERO interceptions and 11 TDs, then there's a very high chance they don't win the Super Bowl.  He was on a team that gave up the most points in a post-season Super Bowl winning run, including in the Super Bowl game itself, ever.  He had to do a LOT of it with his own arm and had to overcome a lot to do it, and he had to do it to the tune of perfection or we would not have won.

It's the kind of performance that's really awe-inspiring, it just doesn't happen in the NFL except once every couple of generations.  The only other example I can think of is Joe Montana in 1989, but even that performance wasn't under as much pressure to perform as Flacco was, because his defense only gave up 26 points over the course of the entire post-season.

Stop with the stats, you're comparing two different era's in the game and trying to make excuses for a QB that has done next to nothing for his team since putting up those numbers.  

Flacco is garbage for the amount of money he gets to play the position.  

Keep defending him and paying for apparel and tickets.  We won't be winning anything anytime soon with him on the books.

[Ravenseconbeast]

10 hours ago, AsianRice said:

Which QB are you comparing to? 

In term of playoff winning record, Drew Brees and Rodger wouldn't stand a chance cuz Drew has 6-5 in playoff and Rodger has 7-6 in playoff. Guess what Flacco's record in playoff? How about comparing your beloved Andy, Romo, Carson Palmer, or Matt Ryan? all of these guys combined playoff records wouldn't sniff Joe's record.

Then you would say Brees has monster stats in term of yards and TDs. You'd like it in FF...

What's other QB compared to Joe? future HOF Tom Br*dy and Peyton Manning...lol

ELi and Ben has better record than Joe in term of SB wins...

No team records.  Give me facts on flacco personal stats he accomplished compare to other 'highest paid' QBs did.  

If you talk about playoff records, then i guess torrey smith is much more succesful in 'playoff winning records' as julio jones.  Which is ridiculous.  

Give me personal accomplishment and their stats. Not team records/wins/stats/accomplishments

Edited October 20, 2016 by Ravenseconbeast

[Virginia 55]

Seems like every year the same people come into every Flacco thread defending him.

 

To all of those people i say this, we really respect your loyalty to our players.  

With that said; show some loyalty to the team.  

 

Our Qb is not very good,(for his contract) what do you propose we do? His contract will ruin this team. Because his play doesn't match.

No stats/ Just facts!!!!!!

[Hardbaugh]

10 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

No team records.  Give me facts on flacco personal stats he accomplished compare to other 'highest paid' QBs did.  

If you talk about playoff records, then i guess torrey smith is much more succesful in 'playoff winning records' as julio jones.  Which is ridiculous.  

Give me personal accomplishment and their stats. Not team records/wins/stats/accomplishments

You are making too much sense.

[Hardbaugh]

12 minutes ago, Virginia 55 said:

Seems like every year the same people come into every Flacco thread defending him.

 

To all of those people i say this, we really respect your loyalty to our players.  

With that said; show some loyalty to the team.  

 

Our Qb is not very good,(for his contract) what do you propose we do? His contract will ruin this team. Because his play doesn't match.

No stats/ Just facts!!!!!!

Well we have to witness poor play for three more seasons. Looking at his contract it looks like 2019 or 2020 will be Flaccos last year here. I wonder how many more coordinator and other jobs he'll leave in his wake. The guy is mediocre and not worth what he's getting which hurts the rest of the team. When his cap number was more in line to what he brings to the table the Ravens could go deep in the playoffs.  Not Anymore!  I love the Ravens but have to say the amount of excuses (even from professionals on this site and elsewhere) for Flacco is quite amusing.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Hardbaugh

[trevorsteadman]

39 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

No team records.  Give me facts on flacco personal stats he accomplished compare to other 'highest paid' QBs did.  

If you talk about playoff records, then i guess torrey smith is much more succesful in 'playoff winning records' as julio jones.  Which is ridiculous.  

Give me personal accomplishment and their stats. Not team records/wins/stats/accomplishments

You do realize that football is a team sport right? So every record a quarterback has ever set is because of the players around him as well. Personal accomplishments and stats run into each other because there are 11 people on the field at once.

Fact is Flacco has looked a lot better than I expected this year after his injury, his best receiver is coming off of an injury and is 37 years old and was out last week, he hasn't really played with Pitta in awhile until now, Wallace is new, and how much has Perriman been around in the offseason to grow chemistry? Theres also a new starter at running back.

That doesn't add in that 3 offensive linemen were out last week and only 1 starter was in his traditional spot (Zuttah).

Flacco actually has done well at managing games so far from what I have watched. Sure he has made a bad pass here and there but he hasn't hurt our chances of winning games. He puts the ball in places that either the receiver can catch it or neither can. We all knew it would be awhile for the team to build chemistry with everybody's injuries and new people coming in. There is a new coordinator who actually called a pretty good game last week but was overshadowed by injuries and penalties.

Sometimes I wonder if people have actually watched games this season. 

[flynismo]

47 minutes ago, Virginia 55 said:

Seems like every year the same people come into every Flacco thread defending him.

 

To all of those people i say this, we really respect your loyalty to our players.  

With that said; show some loyalty to the team.  

 

Our Qb is not very good,(for his contract) what do you propose we do? His contract will ruin this team. Because his play doesn't match.

No stats/ Just facts!!!!!!

Our defense of Flacco is out of loyalty to this team, not to him. Do you really think for one second that anyone here would not lynch him like we did Boller if he was not the guy we need?

[flynismo]

1 hour ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

ESPN: No. 18 (moved down four spots) 
"Remember when Joe Flacco's deep ball ability carried the Ravens to a Super Bowl victory in 2012? Yeah, that's not happening right now. Flacco has completed only 25.9 percent of his passes thrown 20 or more yards downfield this season, ranking 29th in the NFL."

I can't help but notice that you completely ignored my previous answers. I don't blame you, since it completely destroyed your arguments, but if you're going to post stupid articles from ESPN, give us some context. Why is it that Flacco carried us to a SB one year, and then is not performing as highly this year. I don't suppose it is because the OL has given up more pressure than any other team in the league, we had an OC who refused to play to Flacco's strengths and got fired for it, and that our WRs currently rank second in the league in drops?

See why stats are for losers, as Ray Lewis himself once said?

[trevorsteadman]

2 minutes ago, flynismo said:

I can't help but notice that you completely ignored my previous answers. I don't blame you, since it completely destroyed your arguments, but if you're going to post stupid articles from ESPN, give us some context. Why is it that Flacco carried us to a SB one year, and then is not performing as highly this year. I don't suppose it is because the OL has given up more pressure than any other team in the league, we had an OC who refused to play to Flacco's strengths and got fired for it, and that our WRs currently rank second in the league in drops?

See why stats are for losers, as Ray Lewis himself once said?

+35

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

No team records.  Give me facts on flacco personal stats he accomplished compare to other 'highest paid' QBs did.  

If you talk about playoff records, then i guess torrey smith is much more succesful in 'playoff winning records' as julio jones.  Which is ridiculous.  

Give me personal accomplishment and their stats. Not team records/wins/stats/accomplishments

But QBs don't get paid for stats... so why are you comparing two things that have nothing do with each other?

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, Virginia 55 said:

Seems like every year the same people come into every Flacco thread defending him.

 

To all of those people i say this, we really respect your loyalty to our players.  

With that said; show some loyalty to the team.  

 

Our Qb is not very good,(for his contract) what do you propose we do? His contract will ruin this team. Because his play doesn't match.

No stats/ Just facts!!!!!!

We do what everybody else with a highly paid QB does... draft well, develop young players, spend wisely in FA.

Its pretty much the only strategy that works in this league. 

[flynismo]

2 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

But QBs don't get paid for stats... so why are you comparing two things that have nothing do with each other?

Because he thinks he's being slick.

Unfortunately for him, he got called on it, because we're playing his game and he still looks like a fool even AFTER he dictated the terms of what he thinks which records count and which don't.

It's Freakin' funny watching him refuse to face reality...well, kind of sad actually, but still funny.

[ALI624]

5 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

We do what everybody else with a highly paid QB does... draft well, develop young players, spend wisely in FA.

Its pretty much the only strategy that works in this league. 

Or do what the Brady and Belichick did and sell your souls to the devil.

[rmcjacket23]

16 minutes ago, ALI624 said:

Or do what the Brady and Belichick did and sell your souls to the devil.

They're still using the same strategy.

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, Virginia 55 said:

Seems like every year the same people come into every Flacco thread defending him.

 

To all of those people i say this, we really respect your loyalty to our players.  

With that said; show some loyalty to the team.  

 

Our Qb is not very good,(for his contract) what do you propose we do? His contract will ruin this team. Because his play doesn't match.

No stats/ Just facts!!!!!!

I mean I suppose the alternative "proposal" would be to just dump Flacco right?

We could dump him after the season, absorb the $47.3M cap hit that it would cost to cut him (assuming we cut him before June) in 2017, and pray like hell that we hit the lottery with one of these draft picks, which has become less than a coin flip probability at this point.

And I could even live with fans wanting to do that.... BUT... you can't live with that. We already know the sheer panic and terror that fans have when the Ravens lose 3 games out of 6. Its hard to fathom how far over the cliff fans would go if they had to deal with a 2017 seasons where we had to cut a ton of players just to get under the salary cap, have zero money to spend on barely anybody (barely able to afford our own draft picks) and throw a rookie QB out there and pray that he's any good.

Not like Ravens fans are known for their patience with losing, even in a clear "rebuilding" mode.

And that's where you guys lose me. The proposal that you actually want is one that you don't have the balls to go through... its hypocrisy at its finest.

[Moderator 3]

3 hours ago, Virginia 55 said:

Seems like every year the same people come into every Flacco thread defending him.

 

Maybe because the same "broken records" keep going into every thread to bash him ridiculously.  There IS a middle ground.  

[January J]

3 hours ago, Virginia 55 said:

Stop with the stats, you're comparing two different era's in the game and trying to make excuses for a QB that has done next to nothing for his team since putting up those numbers.  

Flacco is garbage for the amount of money he gets to play the position.  

Keep defending him and paying for apparel and tickets.  We won't be winning anything anytime soon with him on the books.

 

3 hours ago, Virginia 55 said:

Seems like every year the same people come into every Flacco thread defending him.

 

To all of those people i say this, we really respect your loyalty to our players.  

With that said; show some loyalty to the team.  

 

Our Qb is not very good,(for his contract) what do you propose we do? His contract will ruin this team. Because his play doesn't match.

No stats/ Just facts!!!!!!

I guess we should just get a qb like Ryan Tannehill who  pretty much makes about  the same amount of money as Joe then right? What's your suggestion? 

Nobodys saying flacco doesn't need to improve- but his contract is pretty much  the going rate for a qb of his caliber. Unless you want a one year band aid who ends up like Fitzpatrick or for us to draft  another qb high and go through the growing pains that they come with and hope that  they pan out ( look how many times the browns have tried and failed to do so) Joe is pretty much our best option. Good qbs don't grow on trees obviously.  I brought up a hypothetical last year about trading or getting rid of Joe -investing heavily in the defense and going with Mallet as the starter just to see what ppl thought of the idea but obviously that's extremely risky. That formula    seems to  working for teams like Denver but that doesn't mean it will work here. When you find a franchise qb who has proven to be reliable in  the postseason when it counts the most you hold onto him. Period.

[Rav'n Maniac]

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I mean I suppose the alternative "proposal" would be to just dump Flacco right?

We could dump him after the season, absorb the $47.3M cap hit that it would cost to cut him (assuming we cut him before June) in 2017, and pray like hell that we hit the lottery with one of these draft picks, which has become less than a coin flip probability at this point.

And I could even live with fans wanting to do that.... BUT... you can't live with that. We already know the sheer panic and terror that fans have when the Ravens lose 3 games out of 6. Its hard to fathom how far over the cliff fans would go if they had to deal with a 2017 seasons where we had to cut a ton of players just to get under the salary cap, have zero money to spend on barely anybody (barely able to afford our own draft picks) and throw a rookie QB out there and pray that he's any good.

Not like Ravens fans are known for their patience with losing, even in a clear "rebuilding" mode.

And that's where you guys lose me. The proposal that you actually want is one that you don't have the balls to go through... its hypocrisy at its finest.

It's actually way lower than that. Here is a excerpt I found in a article put out by The Harvard Sport Analysis written in 2011 stating:

"Looking back on the last thirty years of the draft, it turns out that 39% of QBs taken in the first round became “elite” QBs (4,000 season passing yards, 60% completion percentage, a certain “put-the-team-on-my-back”-itude) while 39% become “busts”; the remaining 22% become middle-of-the-pack players. In fact, the first pick is the best time to take a QB: nine out of the fifteen QBs selected first overall in the past thirty years have become elite while only two have turned into busts. After the first round, the chances of selecting an elite quarterback plummet to 19% in the second, 6% in the third, and dwindle to 1% in the seventh round."

Just thought it had some bearing on the point you were trying to make.

[rmcjacket23]

10 minutes ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

It's actually way lower than that. Here is a excerpt I found in a article put out by The Harvard Sport Analysis written in 2011 stating:

"Looking back on the last thirty years of the draft, it turns out that 39% of QBs taken in the first round became “elite” QBs (4,000 season passing yards, 60% completion percentage, a certain “put-the-team-on-my-back”-itude) while 39% become “busts”; the remaining 22% become middle-of-the-pack players. In fact, the first pick is the best time to take a QB: nine out of the fifteen QBs selected first overall in the past thirty years have become elite while only two have turned into busts. After the first round, the chances of selecting an elite quarterback plummet to 19% in the second, 6% in the third, and dwindle to 1% in the seventh round."

Just thought it had some bearing on the point you were trying to make.

Yeah I was referencing the entire draft. My guess is you'll only see about 1 out of probably 10 QBs taken in any individual draft turns into a franchise level QB.

[AsianRice]

4 hours ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

No team records.  Give me facts on flacco personal stats he accomplished compare to other 'highest paid' QBs did.  

If you talk about playoff records, then i guess torrey smith is much more succesful in 'playoff winning records' as julio jones.  Which is ridiculous.  

Give me personal accomplishment and their stats. Not team records/wins/stats/accomplishments

When Julio Jones retired, he would wish he was drafted to a winning team..

 

I guess Dan Marino would be happy with his all time record stats WITHOUT a ring when all of his HOF classmates have a SB ring. 

 

Give me personal accomplishment and their stats. Not team records/wins/stats/accomplishments

LOL you know football is team sport right? If all you care about your personal flashy stats, you should play for yourself and 10 other guy would stand and watch you play...

In the end, would you talk about a winner or loser? 

Like Boldin once acted that "look at the score...."

Stats are for losers..

I guess you will be happy to have Brees stats when the team keep on losing....

PS: don't start Joe in FF....lol....