Will Any Ravens Take a Knee in Protest

[flynismo]

34 minutes ago, Inqui said:

Not often you hear that.

heh. I did a double take before hitting "Submit" on that post

[Steve0x]

Just now, flynismo said:

heh. I did a double take before hitting "Submit" on that post

You hit s double? Sweet!!! did it come with a couple of RBIs?

[flynismo]

1 minute ago, Steve0x said:

You hit s double? Sweet!!! did it come with a couple of RBIs?

haha, took me a second to get that...speaking of which, isn't it near the time of year that us O's fans start sticking our head in the sand?

[Steve0x]

7 minutes ago, flynismo said:

haha, took me a second to get that...speaking of which, isn't it near the time of year that us O's fans start sticking our head in the sand?

Like Yogi Berra said,,,Its aint over til its over. 

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Some have said this is not a Ravens thread, it's not a football thread and maybe it has nothing to do with the team and it's leadership. Really? It only began from an 2016 NFL sideline, was commented-on by several ex-Ravens, coaches and the entire sports nation daily. It's all of that.

We are revisiting the 'new real-time' importance of never taking our freedoms for granted and never confusing patriotism with the individual rights for others to be free to challenge what they feel is an injustice whether you agree with the tactics or not. Very few championed and welcome 'change' at first. It's uncomfortable for most, but change is necessary. When our country ceases to evolve and better this republic - our country ceases.

Our team and this sport along with so many other sports, businesses, everyday individuals, etc. have had more impact on that progress than any political party and/or think-tank. If our team decides to sit this one out (Don't think they will...) when it's all said in done someone is going to ask: Why?

That said, they should join the conversation now or answer later.   

[usmccharles]

I would have absolutely no issue if a Raven chose to take a knee

[Willbacker]

17 hours ago, jkm5bmore said:

That said, they should join the conversation now or answer later.   

Maybe they should figger out who oversees the police depts and makes all the rules. That would be a good start.

As long as they respected the flag on 9/11 I have no problem with anybody taking a knee cuz its their freedom of choice which ironically the flag represents.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

5 hours ago, Willbacker said:

Maybe they should figger out who oversees the police depts and makes all the rules. That would be a good start.

As long as they respected the flag on 9/11 I have no problem with anybody taking a knee cuz its their freedom of choice which ironically the flag represents.

Absolutely agree with this. In addition, I'm a veteran and have personal (sorrows and triumphs) directly connected to the 9-11 tragedy like so many others who still would support and fight for an individual to express his/her rights peacefully (and have) no matter when those rights are exercised. I've stopped at makeshift memorials posting American flags honoring veterans, historic notables and everyday unheralded people just to honor them and country. These times were never prompted or staged.

Keenan Reynolds is a member of the Ravens’ practice squad who played quarterback for four seasons at Navy. “We fight to protect your freedom to do that, regardless of how I feel about it. How I feel about it is irrelevant. The flag gives you the right to do that,” Reynolds said Saturday.
- By Rick Maese – Washington Post

 That said, I believe that the forced 'ceremonial' and/or the 'staged' aspect of showing 'patriotism' on-demand has no place at sporting events. If it was truly about the flag then anyone at anytime can pay homage whenever they felt like it (flags fly the entire game, on the way to the game, at every corner, etc.). I think the more obvious reason this expression of individual rights had a platform is the 'National Anthem' combined with 'on-cue' audience participation.

Now, when that's all put into action - there's your opportunity for exercising your rights to or not. Considering the lyrics of the Anthem: 

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave. (The parts where you don't get to yell "O"!

Can we blame them? That's a perfect time to express individual rights peacefully. Most people I've seen not partaking in the Anthem at the game are hitting the stalls, texting, posting social media or everything else except expressing freely their rights to move the idea of 'justice for all...' forward. (I wonder if those are the vocal about it.)

Maybe a few of our Ravens will take this time to (in any form) to express that same resolve or at the very least just join the conversation.

Edited September 15, 2016 by jkm5bmore
typo (I wonder if those are the vocal about it.)

[Tank 92]

What the Seahawks did brings awareness while promoting togetherness. After all isn't that what it should be about? 

[Inqui]

10 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

What the Seahawks did brings awareness while promoting togetherness. After all isn't that what it should be about? 

I think the whole "promoting unity/togetherness" argument can be kind of a slippery slope. It sounds nice in theory, but it's also an easy line to trot out to enforce the status quo. Just like when politicians say "I challenge the [other side] party to come together on this issue" it's really just a political euphemism for "I challenge the [other side] party to agree with me on this issue because I'm still not budging".

Guys like Kapernick have gotten people talking by creating controversy - and sometimes you do have to rock the boat to bring about change - and I just feel it's missing the point a little to dismiss his cause for not "promoting unity" when he's clearly not comfortable with the result of that "unity".

Not that I have a problem with what the Seahawks did, but I also don't have a problem with Kaepernick, Stills, Marshall or anyone else who either sits, kneels or raises a fist. If the Seahawks had been the first to protest/gesture like that (not Kaepernick), it would have gotten a 15-second segment on SportsNation, earned a day's worth of respect from the internet and then nothing would have changed and no discussion would have been entered into.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Inqui

[Tank 92]

Just now, Inqui said:

I think the whole "promoting unity/togetherness" argument can be kind of a slippery slope. It sounds nice in theory, but it's also an easy line to trot out to enforce the status quo. Just like when politicians say "I challenge the [other side] party to come together on this issue" it's really just a political euphemism for "I challenge the [other side] party to agree with me on this issue because I'm still not budging".

Guys like Kapernick have gotten people talking by creating controversy - and sometimes you do have to rock the boat to bring about change - and I just feel it's missing the point a little to dismiss his cause for not "promoting unity" when he's clearly not comfortable with the result of that "unity". Not that I have a problem with what the Seahawks did, but I also don't have a problem with Kaepernick, Stills, Marshall or anyone else who either sits, kneels or raises a fist.

What? I think that's a pretty ridiculous reach, taking an expression of unity among folks of different race/creed/religion etc. and rationalizing it into some sort of statement of political indifference. They are demonstrating that it is much more constructive to join together as a group to address the issue rather than creating another issue by turning it into an "us against them" platform.

What Colin has done has people talking alright, but they are not talking about what should be discussed.  His actions just compound the problem by polarizing what could/should be a unified group against wrongful police violence, which is the issue at hand, not one's right to protest against the symbols of patriotic pride, or to wear pig socks. 

  

 

[FlocksGottaFeed]

1 hour ago, Tank 92 said:

What the Seahawks did brings awareness while promoting togetherness. After all isn't that what it should be about? 

Loved it!!!

[FlocksGottaFeed]

18 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

What? I think that's a pretty ridiculous reach, taking an expression of unity among folks of different race/creed/religion etc. and rationalizing it into some sort of statement of political indifference. They are demonstrating that it is much more constructive to join together as a group to address the issue rather than creating another issue by turning it into an "us against them" platform.

What Colin has done has people talking alright, but they are not talking about what should be discussed.  His actions just compound the problem by polarizing what could/should be a unified group against wrongful police violence, which is the issue at hand, not one's right to protest against the symbols of patriotic pride, or to wear pig socks. 

  

 

That's the beauty of it...it has people talking. Now, it's not about the messenger, but the message. Although it's out there (and a bit uncomfortable) most people don't want to have those much needed conversations. They revert back to the messenger not the message.

I appreciate that you gave a real good example of how it can be delivered differently, but I'm still wondering how our Ravens will deliver and/or join the national football conversation.

[Tank 92]

Just now, jkm5bmore said:

That's the beauty of it...it has people talking. Now, it's not about the messenger, but the message. Although it's out there (and a bit uncomfortable) most people don't want to have those much needed conversations. They revert back to the messenger not the message.

I appreciate that you gave a real good example of how it can be delivered differently, but I'm still wondering how our Ravens will deliver and/or join the national football conversation.

Point is no one is now talking about wrongful police violence, they are talking about one's right to protest against the symbols of patriotism. In no way, shape or form is that helping the issue. 

[FlocksGottaFeed]

3 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

Point is no one is now talking about wrongful police violence, they are talking about one's right to protest against the symbols of patriotism. In no way, shape or form is that helping the issue. 

It's not reported as much as the other narrative (' This is a attack on patriotism...!!!), but they're out there everyday in interview after interview articulately that same "positive change and/or reform" message over-and-over again.

http://www.motherjones.com/media/2016/09/nfl-players-join-kaepernick-solidarity-protest

Our Ravens should as well. I really think they will be (and their own way) soon.

[Inqui]

26 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

What? I think that's a pretty ridiculous reach, taking an expression of unity among folks of different race/creed/religion etc. and rationalizing it into some sort of statement of political indifference. They are demonstrating that it is much more constructive to join together as a group to address the issue rather than creating another issue by turning it into an "us against them" platform.

What Colin has done has people talking alright, but they are not talking about what should be discussed.  His actions just compound the problem by polarizing what could/should be a unified group against wrongful police violence, which is the issue at hand, not one's right to protest against the symbols of patriotic pride, or to wear pig socks.  

 

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it's a nice feelgood statement that leads to political indifference. And like I also said, I don't have a problem with what they did - in many ways it's good that it shows it's an "everyone" problem - but that kind of protest is at best complementary to the bigger issue because if the cause doesn't get enough attention it all fizzles out. And if all teams linked arms for a while it doesn't get the same attention. It's the kind of issue where if it's not in your face regularly, nothing gets done about it. 

Kaepernick and these other athletes clearly feel uncomfortable with the status quo (police injustice and racial biases), and the fact is that for a lot of people it's not in their face on a regular basis because they're not either police officers with their lives on the line or they're not being subject to harsher police treatment in one way or another - and they certainly don't have to encounter the frustrating cycle that breeds for both sides of that equation. These athletes are using their high profile to put those issues in people's faces in a peaceful and respectful (pig socks aside - which was completely stupid) way on behalf of those who can't. And the African American woman at the Rams game with the "Thank You Kaepernick" sign shows it's at least partly doing the job.

[Inqui]

1 hour ago, Tank 92 said:

Point is no one is now talking about wrongful police violence, they are talking about one's right to protest against the symbols of patriotism. In no way, shape or form is that helping the issue. 

There's quite a bit of discussion on the stats in this thread alone. There's talk about patriotism, but there's also far more talk about police injustice in general than there would otherwise have been. And it's bringing the issue to the fore in a far better way than killing police officers or rioting (which is more an act of frustration and only makes things worse for quite literally everyone).

Edited September 15, 2016 by Inqui

[Tank 92]

6 minutes ago, Inqui said:

 

 

2 minutes ago, Inqui said:

 

You're heading way farther into the politics of all of this this than I care to discuss on this forum. Just saying this so you don't take my pending silence in the thread the wrong way.

[Inqui]

Just now, Tank 92 said:

 

You're heading way farther into the politics of all of this this than I care to discuss on this forum. Just saying this so you don't take my pending silence in the thread the wrong way.

Noted.  

[FlocksGottaFeed]

1 hour ago, Inqui said:

I think the whole "promoting unity/togetherness" argument can be kind of a slippery slope. It sounds nice in theory, but it's also an easy line to trot out to enforce the status quo. Just like when politicians say "I challenge the [other side] party to come together on this issue" it's really just a political euphemism for "I challenge the [other side] party to agree with me on this issue because I'm still not budging".

Guys like Kapernick have gotten people talking by creating controversy - and sometimes you do have to rock the boat to bring about change - and I just feel it's missing the point a little to dismiss his cause for not "promoting unity" when he's clearly not comfortable with the result of that "unity".

Not that I have a problem with what the Seahawks did, but I also don't have a problem with Kaepernick, Stills, Marshall or anyone else who either sits, kneels or raises a fist. If the Seahawks had been the first to protest/gesture like that (not Kaepernick), it would have gotten a 15-second segment on SportsNation, earned a day's worth of respect from the internet and then nothing would have changed and no discussion would have been entered into.

Agreed on some levels, but without Kaep's initial peaceful protest would there have been the Seahawks protest? There must be credit given to at least that and many police, veterans, fans and players have. Now, why not our active Ravens? Is there some measure in place that doesn't permit it or is there a plan in place that will reveal a different 'peaceful protest' strategy to address the 'real' problem?

[Inqui]

Just now, jkm5bmore said:

Agreed on some levels, but without Kaep's initial peaceful protest would there have been the Seahawks protest? There must be credit given to at least that and many police, veterans, fans and players have. Now, why not our active Ravens? Is there some measure in place that doesn't permit it or is there a plan in place that will reveal a different 'peaceful protest' strategy to address the 'real' problem?

Looks like you're saying what I've already said (and in a more articulate way I'd say), so suffice it to say I agree with all of that. It's great that so many people are starting to get on board with it as you've said, and like you say I don't think all of that comes about without Kap initially rocking the boat. As to whether any Ravens join in, I'd imagine that depends on how each player feels on the issue. It'll be interesting to see, and I imagine if any players do kneel or something, there'll be plenty of people who appreciate it.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

3 minutes ago, Inqui said:

Looks like you're saying what I've already said (and in a more articulate way I'd say), so suffice it to say I agree with all of that. It's great that so many people are starting to get on board with it as you've said, and like you say I don't think all of that comes about without Kap initially rocking the boat. As to whether any Ravens join in, I'd imagine that depends on how each player feels on the issue. It'll be interesting to see, and I imagine if any players do kneel or something, there'll be plenty of people who appreciate it.

Absolutely in agreement on your points. Truly appreciate your prospective and I'm not more articulate (but thanks).

GO Ravens!

[Steve0x]

Ravens players are not going take a knee against the anthem. So whats the point to keep this thread going?

[FlocksGottaFeed]

11 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

Ravens players are not going take a knee against the anthem. So whats the point to keep this thread going?

Thanks good question. Hopefully it is not taking a knee against the anthem (not the point), but they most likely will express their thoughts about the real issues that drove this national conversation. The players, coaches and teams that are engaging (and growing fast) in this conversation every week illustrate why.

http://www.motherjones.com/media/2016/09/nfl-players-join-kaepernick-solidarity-protest

"A lot of times, a lot of people don't want to address the issues, and they want us to sit back and be quiet about it," Casey told reporters - Mother Jones

That's the point. Most football fans want to hear their players, coaches, fan-base perspectives (whether we agree or not ). That's what makes a forum. We should be extremely proud of ours (Best in the NFL) just because we can do that.

[The Raven]

To those suggesting that Kaepernick's stance won't amount to anything or won't cause change or anything, I'd like to remind you that change in sports has frequently served as a catalyst for change in the real world, at least in this country. Whether it was the civil rights movement or the LGBTQ movement, sports played a large role in promoting the conversation. 

I think the reason for that is that a large portion of the country is indifferent to social issues. Many people just don't care. Sports are the escape. But when social issues creep into sports, that's when the conversation gets louder. That's when the indifferent start to join the conversation.

Arguably, athletes have a larger platform than politicians these days. I'd be willing to bet that more people could name their city's backup quarterback than people that could name their congressional representative. Maybe hyperbole there, but you get the point. So when an athlete holds the floor, people listen. And it sparks conversation. Conversation is where the solutions come from (so yeah, I'll disagree, too, with those suggesting that Kaep should offer solutions, too. Ideally yes, but...).

Conversation also puts pressure on policymakers to start enacting change. Do you think the DOJ launched an investigation into the Baltimore Police Department just because it felt like it? No -- they listened to the people, and they wanted to systematically address the issue. And now, there are steps in place to determine solutions in Baltimore.

Conversation is simultaneously part of the solution and a catalyst for finding the solution.

So yeah, I wholeheartedly support Kaep and his efforts to speak his mind, and I would support any Raven player, coach, staffer, intern, or whoever decided to take a stand on either end of the spectrum. I believe in the marketplace of ideas, and I like to encourage debate.

Edited September 15, 2016 by The Raven

[Purple Nurple]

I couldn't even get through the first page of this thread without my head literally exploding. I'm writing from the after-life. Lots of chili cheese dogs here....

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Shareece Wright adds to the Conversation

“I would stand, but I understand his position and the purpose behind it and the movement..."

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2016/09/14/shareece-wright-dishes-on-steve-smith-flacco-kaepernicks-protest/

Can definitely respect his personal choice not to join the other players around the league who are exercising their freedom of speech before the game, but appreciate more that he also acknowledges and supports their rights to do so.

He's the 1st (Active) Raven that I've found so far. That's cool. We've joined the conversation.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

13 hours ago, The Raven said:

To those suggesting that Kaepernick's stance won't amount to anything or won't cause change or anything, I'd like to remind you that change in sports has frequently served as a catalyst for change in the real world, at least in this country...

Great post. Absolutely. I especially like this part.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Baltimore Ravens Join the NFL National Anthem Protest Conversation
for Systemic Reforms in Law Enforcement for People of Color

Shareece Wright's recent comments addressing this narrative seems to put him ahead of all the other active Raven players. That said, there has been an on-going dialog shared-by several ex-Ravens, coaches, front office members, etc.

Current List:

• Ray Lewis

• Shannon Sharpe

• Trent Dilfer

• Coach John Harburgh

• Benjamin Watson (IR)

• Kennan Reynolds

• Kevin Byrne Senior Vice President, Public & Community Relations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OREWMWdKfgc

I'm still hoping that more active Ravens give more input on this important conversation. I truly appreciate Shareece's input along with all the others from the Ravens FAM. Will this Sunday's game be the one where we'll hear more?

Edited September 16, 2016 by jkm5bmore
typo

[FlocksGottaFeed]

In the conversation and Baltimore Ravens fans took notice.