Will Any Ravens Take a Knee in Protest

[rmcjacket23]

6 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

THAT is a Completely different subject....  That action actually helped their team....

The idea that its a distraction to the team, when it hasn't actually shown to be one, is a completely different subject also. 

[FlocksGottaFeed]

1 hour ago, Steve0x said:

When will a Baltimore sports reporter ask John Harbaugh whats his policy if a Ravens player sits down during the anthem? I want to know whats his response is.  

John Harbaugh's thoughts on this is all over. He supports this form of free speech.

http://www.espn.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/29523/ravens-john-harbaugh-goes-voltaire-on-colin-kaepernicks-anthem-protest

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/08/29/john-harbaugh-on-kaepernick-you-cant-deny-someone-the-right-to-speak-out/

It's because of the general history surrounding this movement so directly center on Baltimore (Where the anthem was written, where a major protest took place that addressed the very issues protested, the general support of the Ravens organization, etc., I think the question is "...it's not 'if' there will be active Ravens playing a role in this form of freedom of speech, "...but when?"

[The Mom Gene]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

The idea that its a distraction to the team, when it hasn't actually shown to be one, is a completely different subject also. 

I don't see a "celebration" as a distraction.  I see it as an accomplishment.

[The Mom Gene]

2 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

The idea that its a distraction to the team, when it hasn't actually shown to be one, is a completely different subject also. 

I actually see it as part of the game.  Offensively and Defensively... Lots of players do it.  The protest is not part of the game.

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, The Mom Gene said:

I don't see a "celebration" as a distraction.  I see it as an accomplishment.

I certainly do. Especially when the celebration has very little to do with the accomplishment, and the celebration is done with the intention of it drawing attention to yourself.

We already know it's a penalty if you engage in a group demonstration, so that's obviously not helping anything.

[flynismo]

2 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

I won't judge that...  I give everybody the benefit of the doubt, until they do something that warrants otherwise...  Like I said.  I didn't have much to say, until he put those socks on and wore them to a practice.

Don't get me wrong. His heart is in the right place. I truly believe that. But he is too naive, too jaded, too immature (socks incident) and too uninformed for a subject this far reaching and this complex. Just look at his twitter feed to see the division he is already sparking.

[The Mom Gene]

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

I certainly do. Especially when the celebration has very little to do with the accomplishment, and the celebration is done with the intention of it drawing attention to yourself.

We already know it's a penalty if you engage in a group demonstration, so that's obviously not helping anything.

And that's the difference between you and I....  I don't take those things quite as seriously as you do.  And it's only a penalty if it's deemed "taunting or unsportsmanlike conduct" to the other team.

[The Mom Gene]

Just now, flynismo said:

Don't get me wrong. His heart is in the right place. I truly believe that. But he is too naive, too jaded, too immature (socks incident) and too uninformed for a subject this far reaching and this complex. Just look at his twitter feed to see the division he is already sparking.

YUP, exactly.

[The Mom Gene]

Gotta scoot guys...  Nice conversation.  Thanks.

[flynismo]

2 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

It's ok Kaep, you made the first step and used your public persona to generate national attention and conversation. You not only have the freedom to express yourself that way and for that cause, but i back your freedom to do so. But, now that we're all looking and talking, we're waiting for why you grabbed our attention. And so far, the follow up has been...... well ill donate some money.

This is so spot on. Going back again to what Ray said -- if you're going to take a stand, have a solution, not just opinions.

This is one of many reasons that he is a poor leader for this cause, and will ultimately do it more harm than good, if he has any affect at all.

Edited September 13, 2016 by flynismo

[FlocksGottaFeed]

On 9/13/2016 at 3:18 PM, flynismo said:

That's because he is very misguided about reality. His beliefs and comments fall in line exactly with Black Lives Matter, who for the record, tens of thousands of people signed a petition to try to get them recognized as a terror group.

He is just wrong on so many levels, but at the end of the day, there are a lot of rightfully frustrated minorities out there who only see that he is fighting for them, and will support him for it. They need a better leader.

I thought any fight for justice, humanity, our freedoms - is for the betterment for everyone. Not them and they, but we and us. No matter what narrative anyone may agreed or disagreed with the evolution of our country will continue to play a role in all of our lives. There's no argument there.

I'm proud of our forum (the Best in the NFL) and the way we've been communicating on this particular issue. I'm still ready for more Raven players to add more to the conversation. Baltimore needs it.

Edited September 15, 2016 by jkm5bmore
edit - any fight for justice

[flynismo]

10 minutes ago, jkm5bmore said:

I thought a fighting for justice, humanity, our freedoms - is for the betterment for everyone. Not them and they, but we and us.

That's one of my main grudges against Kaepernick. There is no "we and us". He doesn't want to fight for white people killed by police, only the minorities. He does not promote unity, but division; whether he intended so or not.

I do get your underlying point though. If any changes were to come out of this, it would benefit all, not just minorities.

Edited September 13, 2016 by flynismo

[PurpleCorsair]

1 minute ago, flynismo said:

That's one of my main grudges against Kaepernick. There is no "we and us". He doesn't want to fight for white people killed by police, only the minorities. He does not promote unity, but division; whether he intended so or not.

First of all, Kaepernick is protesting police injustices. True he is most vocally protesting on behalf of minority (esp. African American) communities, but his protests are for systemic change in police policy, police culture, and society in general.

 

His stance is similar to, though not exactly, that of the Black Lives Matter movement, who, by the way do fight for the white people killed by police.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

5 minutes ago, flynismo said:

That's one of my main grudges against Kaepernick. There is no "we and us". He doesn't want to fight for white people killed by police, only the minorities. He does not promote unity, but division; whether he intended so or not.

1st thing 1st: In order to really see the reality of this subject Kaep's name isn't the focus point. Once that's removed and we ask "How did we get here?" we'll find that we have some serious work to do...period. Once that work is done we all benefit from that progress regardless of race, creed and/or economic standing.

The main issue is that an injustice needs to be addressed without distraction. Who do you think the 1st Raven to add to the conversation will be and why?

[flynismo]

7 minutes ago, PurpleCorsair said:

First of all, Kaepernick is protesting police injustices. True he is most vocally protesting on behalf of minority (esp. African American) communities, but his protests are for systemic change in police policy, police culture, and society in general.

 

His stance is similar to, though not exactly, that of the Black Lives Matter movement, who, by the way do fight for the white people killed by police.

He is protesting racial inequality on behalf of minorities. Police injustice is but a part of the greater message. My problem is with how he goes about things.

[Steve0x]

If You refuse to stand for the flag in the NBA its a fine and a suspension from the Commissioner. So why isn't Mr Goodell taking action?

http://articles.philly.com/1996-03-13/sports/25638109_1_mahmoud-abdul-rauf-nba-deputy-commissioner-ron-klempner

[flynismo]

7 minutes ago, jkm5bmore said:

1st thing 1st: In order to really see the reality of this subject Kaep's name isn't the focus point. Once that's removed and we ask "How did we get here?" we'll find that we have some serious work to do...period. Once that work is done we all benefit from that progress regardless of race, creed and/or economic standing.

The main issue is that an injustice needs to be addressed without distraction. Who do you think the 1st Raven to add to the conversation will be and why?

I'm not arguing against any of that. I'm speaking strictly about Kaepernick himself and why I don't approve of him.

Ray Lewis and Shannon Sharpe already weighed in on it; but if we're talking current players, I don't think we'll see any significant conversation added by any of our guys. If I had to choose one though, I'd say Terrance West. He's a minority, so it directly affects him, and he's a local boy; given the events in Baltimore as of late, I think he's a good candidate to speak up first.

[flynismo]

3 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

If You refuse to stand for the flag in the NBA its a fine and a suspension from the Commissioner. So why isn't Mr Goodell taking action?

http://articles.philly.com/1996-03-13/sports/25638109_1_mahmoud-abdul-rauf-nba-deputy-commissioner-ron-klempner

Is that even legal for the NBA to do that?

[Steve0x]

8 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Is that even legal for the NBA to do that?

Yes,,, Mr Stern was tougher than Mr Goodell

[flynismo]

9 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

Yes,,, Mr Stern was tougher than Mr Goodell

That's his prerogative. His league, his rules then. I much prefer Goodell's stance.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

11 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

Yes,,, Mr Stern was tougher than Mr Goodell

It has very little or nothing at all to do with toughness. It's contractual. NBA it's CBA driven, not in current NFL CBA and most likely will never be.

[GrimCoconut]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

LOL, in every other country?

No, not even close. We aren't the only democracy in this World that allows people freedoms like these.

Gross and false generalization there.

We're not a democracy. 

[FlocksGottaFeed]

Two more ex-Raven teammates see this movement through a different lens - Shannon and Trent (SB Champions)

Still looking for current Ravens to express opinion on this. Baltimore and the rest of the country needs it.

Edited September 13, 2016 by jkm5bmore
name typo - Trent

[FlocksGottaFeed]

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

The idea that its a distraction to the team, when it hasn't actually shown to be one, is a completely different subject also. 

Agreed. It's been more unifying than anything else. Team play has shown no affects, but I can't remember when even opponent teams players have been so connected after games. It's bigger than football, but every player to the man has shown game-time professional and focus during the actual games.

Still waiting on my Ravens to chime in.

[FlocksGottaFeed]

1 hour ago, flynismo said:

I'm not arguing against any of that. I'm speaking strictly about Kaepernick himself and why I don't approve of him.

Ray Lewis and Shannon Sharpe already weighed in on it; but if we're talking current players, I don't think we'll see any significant conversation added by any of our guys. If I had to choose one though, I'd say Terrance West. He's a minority, so it directly affects him, and he's a local boy; given the events in Baltimore as of late, I think he's a good candidate to speak up first.

That's the thing. West is a good choice, but I think something like this goes beyond 'minority, direct affects and local'. It would take the kind of player who has a more optimistic approach to change.

Ravens running back Terrance West after police shootings: "Nothing don't change but the names of the victims." The Baltimore Sun

Maybe based on recent events and seeing other players around the league growing in support - he'll have a different outlook. That said, it's possible that simply knowing that you (West) are playing a role in a possible positive change of something that hurts you deeply will even improve every other aspect in your life.

When you feel like you're working towards good - you normally have more bounce in your step.

[caw710]

14 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

 I have to disagree with Ray a bit on this one. When the thing you're protesting is the government (police, the court system, and politicians who do nothing but back up the bad cops and make it harder to deal with them) you can't just leave the flag out of it. While I know many see the flag just as American pride or a symbol of the troops, there is that line, "and the republic for which it stands." It's a symbol of the government too, including the bad parts of the government. You can't protest the bad parts of the government and just leave the flag out of it.

You could not be more wrong about the difference between our flag and country, and the government that's supposed to service it. I agree that the government is too intrusive, corrupt and out of control but don't confuse my disgust with our government with my country and it's flag. Those players have a right to free speech and to do what they are doing, but they are protesting the wrong thing. It is a slap in the face of every man and women, black or white, fighting for this country and that flag. It's like the protesters burning a drug store that so many black senior citizens relied on for medical need. Right fight ( Maybe ), Wrong target, Definitely.

[flynismo]

1 hour ago, jkm5bmore said:

That's the thing. West is a good choice, but I think something like this goes beyond 'minority, direct affects and local'. It would take the kind of player who has a more optimistic approach to change.

Ravens running back Terrance West after police shootings: "Nothing don't change but the names of the victims." The Baltimore Sun

Maybe based on recent events and seeing other players around the league growing in support - he'll have a different outlook. That said, it's possible that simply knowing that you (West) are playing a role in a possible positive change of something that hurts you deeply will even improve every other aspect in your life.

When you feel like you're working towards good - you normally have more bounce in your step.

Perhaps I misunderstood your question; I'd guess he would be the first to say something, but not necessarily to add anything other than his opinion. If you meant the first to speak up in support of Kaepernick or to assume a leadership role of sorts for the team, I would have guessed Eugene Monroe, but since he's no longer an option, nobody else really strikes me as the type who'd take a public stance on it. But again, if I must choose a person, I'd say John Urschel. I think Ron Stanley would voice his opinion as well, although honestly, my gut tells me his viewpoints is similar to mine on all of this.

Edited September 13, 2016 by flynismo

[K-Dog]

Wow this thing is still open ?
I guess we must be behaving and playing nice.   Good for us !!!!!!

 

[Tank 92]

8 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

Definitely agree that it hurt his protest and that was a very dumb move. When you decide to become a public figure for a cause you need to think very carefully about the image you project. Kaep obviously didn't think about it when he wore those.

He was wearing the socks weeks before sitting. His thoughts and intentions were exactly what he wanted to project.

[Inqui]

4 hours ago, flynismo said:

That's his prerogative. His league, his rules then. I much prefer Goodell's stance.

Not often you hear that.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Inqui