Will Any Ravens Take a Knee in Protest

[The Mom Gene]

57 minutes ago, Purple_City39 said:

I'm curious but did you read through that link?  Kap's protest, which we're discussing, is in regards to police brutality (especially of unarmed people) and oppression.  Your link talks about people shooting other armed people.  That alone is a completely separate discussion.  This topic of police targeting minorities or being quick to use deadly is not the same as an ordinary person's quickness to shoot someone. 

I've always hated that type of response since ordinary people aren't voluntarily tasked with protecting and serving everyone equally.  

 

There are just a gazillions studies about people shooting other people... It's been proven that you can create a study about anything that you want, with results that fit your desired result.  That being said.  There are more white people shot by cops than black people...  The point I was making is that in reality, the problem is much deeper than that.  It starts in the poorer neighborhoods...  regardless of race. 

I think the Ravens made their stance quite clear in that they would admire any player for taking a stand on an issue.  They have had numerous players do so.  They would prefer that the protest be in another venue.  Or even in another way. 

One thing we have not mentioned.  These gamedays are about "The Team, The Team, The Team".  That has been the Raven way for EVER.  Anything that attracts attention to any one player on gameday...  not so sure that the organization is a fan of that. 

[The Mom Gene]

1 hour ago, Steve0x said:

When will a Baltimore sports reporter ask John Harbaugh whats his policy if a Ravens player sits down during the anthem? I want to know whats his response is.  

See my post above...  or Read Kevin Byrne's article from two weeks ago.  That was a great article and certainly divulged the stance they have on it.

[The Mom Gene]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. Don't know how many it helps. Largely a non-quantifiable number. I don't know how many people Ray Lewis has helped either. If him sitting gets other people to pull out their checkbook or give their time to a cause of their choice, then he's already reached out to multiple people. And that's all by just taking a knee. 

2. That's not the point. Ray also wasn't out there spending all of his team during the week doing charity work when he was actually playing. He would do some charity work for a few hours on occasion during the season, as do many other players. Kaepernick does this as well. The difference is that Ray has more time NOW to do these things, because he has less responsibilities.

3. Obviously it brings attention to the problem... that's not even really debatable. The fact that he hasn't actually done the work yet is more of a public problem than his problem, because time really hasn't gone by that fast. He literally just did this like two weeks ago, and already the public has decided he doesn't do enough in the community. A bit short-sighted don't you think?

4. He did his work in private... but he made sure people knew he was doing it. That's the point. He made sure that the public knew what he was doing and why he was doing it.

 1.  2.  3. He had a lot of people working for him too... 

 

4.  But not on gameday.

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, The Mom Gene said:

 1.  2.  3. He had a lot of people working for him too... 

 

4.  But not on gameday.

Who cares if its on gameday?

[flynismo]

2 hours ago, cobrajet said:

For the record, I have been to too many police funerals to find any humor in Kaepernick's wearing of those socks with the pigs in police hats.

That is beyond disrespectful. That is no better than the Black Lies Matters crap that we have to listen to.

[flynismo]

2 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Who cares if its on gameday?

The commissioner of the NFL, for starters. Quite a lot of FO-types and coaches have directly or indirectly indicated their disproval. It's the NFL, not a caucus.

Edited September 13, 2016 by flynismo

[The Mom Gene]

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

Who cares if its on gameday?

The team does.... On Sunday? It's about The Team.  Hence their slogans???  The Team The Team The Team.... That has always been said about players and this team.  On gameday it goes right back to it being about the Team, not the individual.  All you have to do is watch Steve Smith's lockerroom interview this past Sunday.

[The Mom Gene]

3 minutes ago, flynismo said:

That is beyond disrespectful. That is no better than the Black Lies Matters crap that we have to listen to.

The socks???  Yeah, that's a huge part of what ticked me off too.

[flynismo]

Just now, The Mom Gene said:

The socks???  Yeah, that's a huge part of what ticked me off too.

Yeah, same here. For a guy who wants to be serious about bringing about change, he has much to learn.

[The Mom Gene]

Just now, flynismo said:

Yeah, same here. For a guy who wants to be serious about bringing about change, he has much to learn.

His message is very conflicted.

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, flynismo said:

The commissioner of the NFL, for starters. Quite a lot of FO-types and coaches have directly or indirectly indicated their disproval. It's the NFL, not a caucus.

One problem though... its GOOD for business, not bad for business.

Needless to say, its quite "convenient" that the NFL will do nothing more than issuing a statement saying "hey we don't condone this, but we're certainly not going to stop it either". 

They're not dumb. They know increased revenue when they see it.

[rmcjacket23]

4 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

The team does.... On Sunday? It's about The Team.  Hence their slogans???  The Team The Team The Team.... That has always been said about players and this team.  On gameday it goes right back to it being about the Team, not the individual.  All you have to do is watch Steve Smith's lockerroom interview this past Sunday.

O you mean the same team that the next game had players supporting him and doing the exact same thing? That team? Yeah, HUGE DISTRACTION. (rolls eyes).

O no. He was such a huge distraction last night. I don't even know how the 49ers managed to put their pants on.

Steve Smith speaks for himself. His view points are not shared by everybody in the league (obviously), much in the same way Kaepernick's are not.

[flynismo]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

One problem though... its GOOD for business, not bad for business.

Needless to say, its quite "convenient" that the NFL will do nothing more than issuing a statement saying "hey we don't condone this, but we're certainly not going to stop it either". 

They're not dumb. They know increased revenue when they see it.

That's highly debateable whether this is good for business. Wait until one of the NFL sponsors withdraws their support because of this, and see then if some extra jersey sales was worth it. 

Of course, they're not dumb. They cannot force him not to practice his constitutional rights.

[The Mom Gene]

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

O you mean the same team that the next game had players supporting him and doing the exact same thing? That team? Yeah, HUGE DISTRACTION. (rolls eyes).

O no. He was such a huge distraction last night. I don't even know how the 49ers managed to put their pants on.

Steve Smith speaks for himself. His view points are not shared by everybody in the league (obviously), much in the same way Kaepernick's are not.

Your sarcasm is annoying...  Steve Smith made it very clear that game Sunday was not about "him" but about a Team win.  That was what my reference was relating to.  That is how this organization has always operated.  Back to the subject at hand???  You did not see any of that at our game.

[Purple_City39]

1 minute ago, The Mom Gene said:

There are just a gazillions studies about people shooting other people... It's been proven that you can create a study about anything that you want, with results that fit your desired result.  That being said.  There are more white people shot by cops than black people...  The point I was making is that in reality, the problem is much deeper than that.  It starts in the poorer neighborhoods...  regardless of race. 

There are more white people in this country.  Just like more white people do drugs than what arrest records show.  The stats show for every 100 white people interacting with police, 1 suffers brutality.  For every 100 black people, the number is 38 IIRC.

That said, I definitely agree a large portion of the problem is income based.  Income and status are as big a problem in this country as race.  All three come together in some cases.  No reason Brock Turner should have a judge reduce the 6 years prosecutors were asking for down to 6 months only to get out in three, while "Tyrone" in Park Heights gets 5 years for a $10 bag of weed.  Of course this is an example of the oppression Kap is protesting.

In terms of the brutality, there's a situation many don't know about.  Earlier this year, in Cincinatti, a white guy pointed a gun at police.  Police were called to his house for an assault complaint and they openly admit they didn't know the gun was actually fake, yet they arrested him peacefully.  Less than 24 hours later, a black guy crashes his car and is laid out on the ground.  He wakes up surrounded by police with guns drawn. They tell him to lay on the ground and he did.  He raises back up to his knees and is killed by a hail of bullets (there's video for this).  They say he reached for his waistband.  Meanwhile the other guy could point a gun at police and live.  Same police department within the span of 18 hours so training can't be blamed.  This is Kap's other reason for protest and it's not an isolated issue or "1% of police" as I've seen many around the internet say

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-cincinnati-cops-reveal-double-standards-black-men-face-article-1.2537271

 

[The Mom Gene]

Just now, Purple_City39 said:

There are more white people in this country.  Just like more white people do drugs than what arrest records show.  The stats show for every 100 white people interacting with police, 1 suffers brutality.  For every 100 black people, the number is 38 IIRC.

That said, I definitely agree a large portion of the problem is income based.  Income and status are as big a problem in this country as race.  All three come together in some cases.  No reason Brock Turner should have a judge reduce the 6 years prosecutors were asking for down to 6 months only to get out in three, while "Tyrone" in Park Heights gets 5 years for a $10 bag of weed.  Of course this is an example of the oppression Kap is protesting.

In terms of the brutality, there's a situation many don't know about.  Earlier this year, in Cincinatti, a white guy pointed a gun at police.  Police were called to his house for an assault complaint and they openly admit they didn't know the gun was actually fake, yet they arrested him peacefully.  Less than 24 hours later, a black guy crashes his car and is laid out on the ground.  He wakes up surrounded by police with guns drawn. They tell him to lay on the ground and he did.  He raises back up to his knees and is killed by a hail of bullets (there's video for this).  They say he reached for his waistband.  Meanwhile the other guy could point a gun at police and live.  Same police department within the span of 18 hours so training can't be blamed.  This is Kap's other reason for protest and it's not an isolated issue or "1% of police" as I've seen many around the internet say

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-cincinnati-cops-reveal-double-standards-black-men-face-article-1.2537271

 

Like I said...  You can do studies and come up with results that will tell you anything you want them to tell you.

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, flynismo said:

That's highly debateable whether this is good for business. Wait until one of the NFL sponsors withdraws their support because of this, and see then if some extra jersey sales was worth it. 

Of course, they're not dumb. They cannot force him not to practice his constitutional rights.

So why haven't they done it yet? What's the delay? What are they waiting to see what will happen next?

Another issue... sponsors aren't stupid either. Guess what happens when sponsors take political stances (which is what this would be) and drop their sponsorship of a business because its employees exercised their constitutional right? Yeah, they lose business. That's what happens. You know what sponsors do in these instances? Nothing. They remain neutral, because they like money also.

I don't see a single NFL sponsor that benefits from dropping the NFL because Kaepernick knelt during the anthem. You don't think there's more than a few Budweiser drinkers who support what Kaepernick is doing? Or Visa customers? Or any of the other dozens of sponsors the NFL has?

 

Edited September 13, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[flynismo]

7 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

His message is very conflicted.

That's because he is very misguided about reality. His beliefs and comments fall in line exactly with Black Lives Matter, who for the record, tens of thousands of people signed a petition to try to get them recognized as a terror group.

He is just wrong on so many levels, but at the end of the day, there are a lot of rightfully frustrated minorities out there who only see that he is fighting for them, and will support him for it. They need a better leader.

[The Mom Gene]

Brandon Marshall (Denver Broncos) has lost 2 endorsements...  And because of such has agreed to meet with the Denver Police Chief.  He's getting "personally" involved.  Good for him...  but maybe that's what it takes....

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/broncos-brandon-marshall-loses-2nd-endorsement-meet-denver/story?id=42060213

 

[balfan23]

1 minute ago, flynismo said:

That's highly debateable whether this is good for business. Wait until one of the NFL sponsors withdraws their support because of this, and see then if some extra jersey sales was worth it. 

Of course, they're not dumb. They cannot force him not to practice his constitutional rights.

That is not going to happen. Nothing brings fear in the hearts of a private business more than the PC police launching PC smear campaign. Any sponsor that pulls their advertising and states this is the reason will immediately be under attack. 

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

Your sarcasm is annoying...  Steve Smith made it very clear that game Sunday was not about "him" but about a Team win.  That was what my reference was relating to.  That is how this organization has always operated.  Back to the subject at hand???  You did not see any of that at our game.

No, but I see players doing individual celebrations when they make tackles and doing dances that have nothing to do with the "team" accomplishing anything. But hey, they stand for the national anthem with everybody else, so that makes them a "team player" right? My what low levels we have sunk to when that's the case.

This whole concept of this somehow being some massive distraction is just completely naive. 

[The Mom Gene]

1 minute ago, flynismo said:

That's because he is very misguided about reality. His beliefs and comments fall in line exactly with Black Lives Matter, who for the record, tens of thousands of people signed a petition to try to get them recognized as a terror group.

He is just wrong on so many levels, but at the end of the day, there are a lot of rightfully frustrated minorities out there who only see that he is fighting for them, and will support him for it. They need a better leader.

I agree....   So let's hope that he does something that will REALLY make a difference.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, The Mom Gene said:

Brandon Marshall (Denver Broncos) has lost 2 endorsements...  And because of such has agreed to meet with the Denver Police Chief.  He's getting "personally" involved.  Good for him...  but maybe that's what it takes....

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/broncos-brandon-marshall-loses-2nd-endorsement-meet-denver/story?id=42060213

 

Yup, and THIS is what sponsors do. They drop individuals, not organizations.

When Ryan Lochte lies to the country about getting robbed in Rio, sponsors drop HIM, they don't drop USA Swimming or USA Olympic athletes.

 

[The Mom Gene]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

No, but I see players doing individual celebrations when they make tackles and doing dances that have nothing to do with the "team" accomplishing anything. But hey, they stand for the national anthem with everybody else, so that makes them a "team player" right? My what low levels we have sunk to when that's the case.

This whole concept of this somehow being some massive distraction is just completely naive. 

THAT is a Completely different subject....  That action actually helped their team....

[flynismo]

1 minute ago, balfan23 said:

That is not going to happen. Nothing brings fear in the hearts of a private business more than the PC police launching PC smear campaign. Any sponsor that pulls their advertising and states this is the reason will immediately be under attack. 

You could very well be right. On the other hand, if Kaepernick turns this into a complete disaster, not out of the question for a guy who has said the things he has and wears those socks, then who knows what happens...

[The Mom Gene]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yup, and THIS is what sponsors do. They drop individuals, not organizations.

When Ryan Lochte lies to the country about getting robbed in Rio, sponsors drop HIM, they don't drop USA Swimming or USA Olympic athletes.

 

it's a reflection even still....  Hard to believe that some folks just don't see that.  I didn't watch the Niners game last night...  for that exact reason.  And I guarantee they saw a drop in ratings.

[flynismo]

3 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

I agree....   So let's hope that he does something that will REALLY make a difference.

That's what I fear. He is not the type of person I want making any real differences, because it will create division, not unity. Frankly, I wish he would just give it a rest before he makes things worse for the very people he is trying to stand for.

[flynismo]

5 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yup, and THIS is what sponsors do. They drop individuals, not organizations.

Good point. Previous comment retracted.

[The Mom Gene]

1 minute ago, flynismo said:

That's what I fear. He is not the type of person I want making any real differences, because it will create division, not unity. Frankly, I wish he would just give it a rest before he makes things worse for the very people he is trying to stand for.

I won't judge that...  I give everybody the benefit of the doubt, until they do something that warrants otherwise...  Like I said.  I didn't have much to say, until he put those socks on and wore them to a practice.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, The Mom Gene said:

it's a reflection even still....  Hard to believe that some folks just don't see that.  I didn't watch the Niners game last night...  for that exact reason.  And I guarantee they saw a drop in ratings.

A drop in ratings compared to what? You can't quantify how a TV show did based on a hypothetical scenario.

For the record, both Monday night games were "down" compared to the 2015 time slots. What also doesn't help is that the late game featured two teams who most people don't expect to be any good, and they obviously lose a ton of Eastern time zone audience for that game.

Ironically, the SF market had a better rating than the LA market.