Kamalei Correa - thoughts

[rmw10]

34 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

I'm still really interested to see where Kaufusi plays. I didn't really view him as a pure 5-technique, but I could see him playing a similar role that Bosa is playing in SD. 

I think he's versatile enough to play all over the line, if he works on his leverage that is.  Think he'll have some time at 5T, maybe 1T on some passing downs.  If this 4-3 under thing sticks with us, he's perfect for one of the DE spots.

[GrimCoconut]

It's always important to wait and see what happens with a player because he may not look like much now but he needed work anyway coming out of Boise State and I know I and others acknowledged that much. I'll give him a pass this year and wait to see if he makes an impact next year. If he doesn't do much next year then I'll start to look at him as a potential bust. I'll admit I didn't like the pick over other prospects available then, unlike others who raved about the pick; however, give him a chance 

[PurpleCity5]

5 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

It's always important to wait and see what happens with a player because he may not look like much now but he needed work anyway coming out of Boise State and I know I and others acknowledged that much. I'll give him a pass this year and wait to see if he makes an impact next year. If he doesn't do much next year then I'll start to look at him as a potential bust. I'll admit I didn't like the pick over other prospects available then, unlike others who raved about the pick; however, give him a chance 

You know, Brandon Graham of the Eagles is a guy who looked like a complete bust in his first couple seasons in Philly his first few seasons. Turned it around close to his contract year and now he's a beast. I think some guys should be given time. 

[kjbmore]

graham was playing in his first season and had a few sacks before doing his ACL and missing the end of his first season and most of his second

came back and put up numbers 3rd season

our guy ain't given us nothing, hopefully we see something next year

[hn68wb4]

14 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

It's always important to wait and see what happens with a player because he may not look like much now but he needed work anyway coming out of Boise State and I know I and others acknowledged that much. I'll give him a pass this year and wait to see if he makes an impact next year. If he doesn't do much next year then I'll start to look at him as a potential bust. I'll admit I didn't like the pick over other prospects available then, unlike others who raved about the pick; however, give him a chance 

I don't really remember anyone raving about the Correa pick, everyone was pretty angry that we took him over some other guys that were still on the board. Then of course after he was taken we all had to find our own justifications for it, many falling on "he was the safer pick," which at this point seems pretty laughable seeing just how raw he's looked so far. I never give up on a player year one or two, that just seems sort of foolish, plenty players don't really become anything until a couple years into their career, Jimmy being a prime example.

[JoeyFlex5]

9 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

You know, Brandon Graham of the Eagles is a guy who looked like a complete bust in his first couple seasons in Philly his first few seasons. Turned it around close to his contract year and now he's a beast. I think some guys should be given time. 

I was really big on Graham in his draft too. I was sad to see him go so early because I thought he was legit in our range. Would be nice to have a guy like that right now.

[ALPHA]

Where did the Brandon Graham love come from? the guy has never had more than 6.5 sacks in a season, Suggs has more sacks in 11 games, at age 34, with a torn bicep.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

1 hour ago, ALPHA said:

Where did the Brandon Graham love come from? the guy has never had more than 6.5 sacks in a season, Suggs has more sacks in 11 games, at age 34, with a torn bicep.

 

sacks != pressure. You don't have to get sacks to put pressure on the QB, which Graham is more than capable of doing. Sacks are good, but Graham can put pressure on the QB making him an important piece to that defense. It's why we all wanted Judon playing instead of ZDS. It's because Za'Darius cannot put pressure on the QB, and all his sacks last season were effort sacks. 

 

Stats aren't everything. 

[rossihunter2]

On 11/29/2016 at 5:39 AM, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

I'd honestly look for him to come back for some good depth. Only signed a one year deal. 

no way does this FO take back upshaw and lose a potential comp pick

[ALPHA]

1 hour ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

sacks != pressure. You don't have to get sacks to put pressure on the QB, which Graham is more than capable of doing. Sacks are good, but Graham can put pressure on the QB making him an important piece to that defense. It's why we all wanted Judon playing instead of ZDS. It's because Za'Darius cannot put pressure on the QB, and all his sacks last season were effort sacks. 

 

Stats aren't everything. 

Sacks work on all QB's whereas pressures work on some, how many times have we seen Ben scramble out of the pocket and make an easy completion? Stats aren't everything but sacks are better.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

34 minutes ago, ALPHA said:

Sacks work on all QB's whereas pressures work on some, how many times have we seen Ben scramble out of the pocket and make an easy completion? Stats aren't everything but sacks are better.

Depends on what kind of sacks. Effort sacks which a few of Suggs have been this year are overrated as the QB has been standing in the pocket for 6+ seconds. He's asking to get killed if he stays there that long.

 

And pressure works on most. Ben as well, hence why he has to scramble out of the pocket and what not. 

 

Graham is a good player. May not put up high sack totals but is a damn good pass rusher. Not elite, not great, but very good. 

[GrimCoconut]

22 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

You know, Brandon Graham of the Eagles is a guy who looked like a complete bust in his first couple seasons in Philly his first few seasons. Turned it around close to his contract year and now he's a beast. I think some guys should be given time. 

Good example.  Yeah, hopefully he becomes a player for us. I want Correa to succeed. 

13 hours ago, hn68wb4 said:

I don't really remember anyone raving about the Correa pick, everyone was pretty angry that we took him over some other guys that were still on the board. Then of course after he was taken we all had to find our own justifications for it, many falling on "he was the safer pick," which at this point seems pretty laughable seeing just how raw he's looked so far. I never give up on a player year one or two, that just seems sort of foolish, plenty players don't really become anything until a couple years into their career, Jimmy being a prime example.

There were people who raved about him [Correa] once we took him, acting like he was the better pick between him and guys like Spence. I never really got that hype, but I did agree that Correa has more athleticism than Spence but Spence is more of a football player than Correa at this point in their careers and is more pro-ready due to coming from Ohio State and then EKU compared to Boise State, who do not develop guys well. I agree with you, though, obviously on all accounts because while Correa doesn't look at all good yet, he can still put it together so it seems foolish to just cast him off even if I don't think he looks good.  Gotta give him time to develop and have at least an offseason to develop, which is what he really needs.

[sflegend89]

Noah Spence already has 5.5 sacks this year as a rookie. Can someone please explain how a lot of us fans in the draft section could tell clear as day Spence was a better prospect than Correa yet our front office whiffed so hard on that call. As good as our front office is they have this terrible habit of passing up the best football player for "high character guys" in certain situations.

I know Spence had the off field issues in college but c'mon, he was clearly a more NFL friendly prospect. As good as the defense has been this year it feels like we wasted that high 2nd round pick. The only silver lining being Judon exceeding expectations for us.

I've been vocal about giving Perriman time to develop because I do believe in his talent and potential. For whatever reason I just don't believe Correa the same way.

Edited December 1, 2016 by sflegend89

[trevorsteadman]

1 hour ago, sflegend89 said:

Noah Spence already has 5.5 sacks this year as a rookie. Can someone please explain how a lot of us fans in the draft section could tell clear as day Spence was a better prospect than Correa yet our front office whiffed so hard on that call. As good as our front office is they have this terrible habit of passing up the best football player for "high character guys" in certain situations.

I know Spence had the off field issues in college but c'mon, he was clearly a more NFL friendly prospect. As good as the defense has been this year it feels like we wasted that high 2nd round pick. The only silver lining being Judon exceeding expectations for us.

I've been vocal about giving Perriman time to develop because I do believe in his talent and potential. For whatever reason I just don't believe Correa the same way.

That is what happens when you play... Bucs are so thin at OLB that Noah Spence gets snaps. The Ravens have the luxury of having two of the best ILB's this season in Mosley and Orr, and then Suggs, Dumervil, and McClellan are all veteran players and McClellan has his versatility and special teams play. You could argue him getting time over Judon and Smith based off of where he was drafted but I think a lot of people knew he needed time....

That is the problem with drafting. You take a 'safe' pick they end up having a limited ceiling and then the team gets bashed by fans for not finding 'playmakers' in the draft. Then they go for the raw talent for players to grow into the game and then fans don't give those players time to develop.

Both Correa and Perriman will take time. Luckily the Ravens have the veterans to coach them up right now. There will be growing pains, but that is to be expected. Wide receivers don't break out until usually around their 3rd season. Perriman is in his first actually playing. Correa will take time to develop because he is learning multiple positions. But think of how nice he will be to have on the field in different packages with all that he can do. I would say give him another 2 seasons before people start judging this guy's production for where he was drafted. 

Plus with the team trading down they got extra draft picks. The team also got Chris Moore and Matt Judon out of the deal. Judon has done a really good job for a 5th round pick and has 3 sacks. Chris Moore is buried on the depth chart but once Steve Smith retires the team will need him. 

[Edgar]

2 hours ago, sflegend89 said:

Noah Spence already has 5.5 sacks this year as a rookie. Can someone please explain how a lot of us fans in the draft section could tell clear as day Spence was a better prospect than Correa yet our front office whiffed so hard on that call. As good as our front office is they have this terrible habit of passing up the best football player for "high character guys" in certain situations.

I know Spence had the off field issues in college but c'mon, he was clearly a more NFL friendly prospect. As good as the defense has been this year it feels like we wasted that high 2nd round pick. The only silver lining being Judon exceeding expectations for us.

I've been vocal about giving Perriman time to develop because I do believe in his talent and potential. For whatever reason I just don't believe Correa the same way.

The first question you raise is interesting. It has to be a fear of Spence being suspended at some point and missing time. Seeing Will Hill go back to what got him may have influenced them.

The majority of posters questioned the move immediately. And not just because of who we might have selected.

We questioned Correa, period and subsequently assumed (at least I did), "  They clearly know more than I do and must see something I don't ."

 

 

[ALPHA]

I didnt like Correa before the draft and had to warm up to the idea after we picked him, but at some point we have to be realists and acknowledge that effort doesnt always replace physical talent. Maybe he can play ILB but I seriously doubt he can hang on the edge, in one of his first games he built up a head of steam only to get pancaked by a stationary lineman.

[gtalk12]

I am happy we found players like Judon and Young in this draft regardless how everybody else pans out......Dixon I still have my eye on.

[JoeyFlex5]

42 minutes ago, ALPHA said:

I didnt like Correa before the draft and had to warm up to the idea after we picked him, but at some point we have to be realists and acknowledge that effort doesnt always replace physical talent. Maybe he can play ILB but I seriously doubt he can hang on the edge, in one of his first games he built up a head of steam only to get pancaked by a stationary lineman.

He does have physical talent though. But sadly I don't know if he can get big enough for the NFL. So his physical talent just doesn't translate

[RayRocks]

Saying Noah Spence has 5.5 sacks already and that we should have taken him instead doesn't take into consideration the fact that we play a vastly different defense than the Bucs.  I really don't think Spence was suited to play in our system, which is probably why we didn't take him.  You can have a very talented player that doesn't fit your needs, and just because he plays well for another team doesn't mean it was a bad idea to not draft him.  We have no way of knowing if Spence would be playing this well for us right now, or even knowing if he'd be playing at all (like Correa).

Many rookies struggle to play their rookie years and go on to have fine careers.  Correa was the talk of Mini Camp and parts of training camp, so the coaches and media definitely saw the talent there.  Now he just needs to work on translating that to the field.

[Ravensfan23]

5 hours ago, sflegend89 said:

Noah Spence already has 5.5 sacks this year as a rookie. Can someone please explain how a lot of us fans in the draft section could tell clear as day Spence was a better prospect than Correa yet our front office whiffed so hard on that call. As good as our front office is they have this terrible habit of passing up the best football player for "high character guys" in certain situations.

I know Spence had the off field issues in college but c'mon, he was clearly a more NFL friendly prospect. As good as the defense has been this year it feels like we wasted that high 2nd round pick. The only silver lining being Judon exceeding expectations for us.

I've been vocal about giving Perriman time to develop because I do believe in his talent and potential. For whatever reason I just don't believe Correa the same way.

Because it's not always about instant gratification. Spence may be able to come in and get 5-8 sacks this season but what happens when he's asked to take on a larger role where other teams are game planing him? What happens when you ask him to play against the run consistently? What happens if you need him to drop in coverage at times? By stats alone ZDS had a strong rookie year and many expected him to breakout this year, how's that working out so far?

When you draft a guy you are drafting on a 3-5 year plan, not based on college tape alone. The front office didn't whiff. I'm sure they saw the same youtube clips that all of us saw lol. But how does he project to this Ravens defense and what well ask him to do? How does he project to the rough and physical style of the AFC North. Doom is a great pass rusher, but his body couldn't hold up when asked to be a 3 down OLB in this division.

Correa wasn't drafted to be a pass rush specialist. While the Ravens didn't expect him to be an inactive for games this season, basically knew they would be learning on the job for the role they envision him filling. The idea is for the reward of what this guy will be in years 2-4 will largely outweigh the struggles he'll have as a rookie. But of course with fans if the player isn't good instantly he's a bust and the FO blew it.

Many of those same fans who said Spence was better than Correa are the same fans who said you can't pass on Myles Jack because he's a generational talent, he's the next Ray Lewis, he's a can't miss. Well how is that working out? Can't put in context based on 1 season.  

[ALPHA]

3 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

He does have physical talent though. But sadly I don't know if he can get big enough for the NFL. So his physical talent just doesn't translate

Youre right he does have physical talent just not for the edge. He has a narrow frame that is maxed out and he's no leverage monster or athletic freak like other undersized pass rushers in the league. 

From memory when I saw his tape I thought his pass rush production was a result of his effort, and he didnt seem to read what was happening and where the ballcarrier was. 

Obviously I hope Im wrong about all of this lol.

[ALPHA]

Looking back I dont know if I would redraft with Spence, we've all seen off the field problems resurface and derail entire seasons. Yannick Ngakoue might make sense, he has 6 sacks too but he is one dimensional and on the small side as well.

[Tank 92]

lol........Every rookie can't be NFL ready out of the gate. Give him time, he was drafted as a junior and is only 22 years old.  

Everyone knew KC would be a project coming from Boise State, but he has the raw talent to be a great one. I think his detractors will be surprised when he hones his skills and starts beasting. That may not be until next year but so what.  Good things come to those who wait! 

[BmoreBird22]

21 hours ago, ALPHA said:

Sacks work on all QB's whereas pressures work on some, how many times have we seen Ben scramble out of the pocket and make an easy completion? Stats aren't everything but sacks are better.

I'll take a high volume of pressure over 10 sacks. Guys like Miller, Watt, Mack, Donald, etc are getting around 60+ pressures a year. You move a quarterback off his spot enough and force him to throw on the run and he's going to throw interceptions.

[rmw10]

12 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I'll take a high volume of pressure over 10 sacks. Guys like Miller, Watt, Mack, Donald, etc are getting around 60+ pressures a year. You move a quarterback off his spot enough and force him to throw on the run and he's going to throw interceptions.

Obviously an exaggeration here, but give me the guy with 6 sacks and 50 pressures over the guy with 10 sacks and 25 pressures every single time.  You like to see guys finish the play, but as you said, sometimes those pressures result in better things than a sack.

[kjbmore]

6 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Because it's not always about instant gratification. Spence may be able to come in and get 5-8 sacks this season but what happens when he's asked to take on a larger role where other teams are game planing him? What happens when you ask him to play against the run consistently? What happens if you need him to drop in coverage at times? By stats alone ZDS had a strong rookie year and many expected him to breakout this year, how's that working out so far?

When you draft a guy you are drafting on a 3-5 year plan, not based on college tape alone. The front office didn't whiff. I'm sure they saw the same youtube clips that all of us saw lol. But how does he project to this Ravens defense and what well ask him to do? How does he project to the rough and physical style of the AFC North. Doom is a great pass rusher, but his body couldn't hold up when asked to be a 3 down OLB in this division.

Correa wasn't drafted to be a pass rush specialist. While the Ravens didn't expect him to be an inactive for games this season, basically knew they would be learning on the job for the role they envision him filling. The idea is for the reward of what this guy will be in years 2-4 will largely outweigh the struggles he'll have as a rookie. But of course with fans if the player isn't good instantly he's a bust and the FO blew it.

Many of those same fans who said Spence was better than Correa are the same fans who said you can't pass on Myles Jack because he's a generational talent, he's the next Ray Lewis, he's a can't miss. Well how is that working out? Can't put in context based on 1 season.  

i hope we arent drafting in the high 2nd rnd with 2-4 or 3-5 year gameplans, id like plug and play rounds 1&2 -  even if its just rotational - i dont want healthy scratches from my 2 top picks

3 onwards sit and learn, maybe youre showing us something and you get out there

theres another draft this year where we can grab some guys and again the following year

its laughable that we have holes all over this team and we spent a high 2nd on a developmental linebacker - especially when we have a history of developing undrafted guys or grabbing free agents

this is just a waste of a pick, waiting to be proved wrong

[rossihunter2]

im a defender of giving picks time but just philosophically i do wonder if sometimes scouts dive almost too deep into the tape where they end up second guessing initial impressions on these higher picks - they draft flashy guys in the later rounds because you can't get a fully rounded player that far down - not saying it does happen i just wonder - i mean they are great at their jobs but they are also only human...

[sflegend89]

3 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

im a defender of giving picks time but just philosophically i do wonder if sometimes scouts dive almost too deep into the tape where they end up second guessing initial impressions on these higher picks - they draft flashy guys in the later rounds because you can't get a fully rounded player that far down - not saying it does happen i just wonder - i mean they are great at their jobs but they are also only human...

 

This is definitely what I was implying happened with the Correa pick. Spence was a guy who got traction as a potential 1st round pick, NFL body type for the position unlike Correa and was originally a mainstay on a highly talented OSU team for good reason. Because the Ravens place so much emphasis on high character players perhaps there was some confirmation bias from the group as a whole, trying not fall in love with Spence as a player because he didn't fit the mold of an ideal Ravens draft choice off the field. Then presented with another player at the same position who fit that Ravens mold better (Correa) they were far more willing to buy into his tape because as a person they liked him more.

 

[usmccharles]

9 hours ago, sflegend89 said:

 

This is definitely what I was implying happened with the Correa pick. Spence was a guy who got traction as a potential 1st round pick, NFL body type for the position unlike Correa and was originally a mainstay on a highly talented OSU team for good reason. Because the Ravens place so much emphasis on high character players perhaps there was some confirmation bias from the group as a whole, trying not fall in love with Spence as a player because he didn't fit the mold of an ideal Ravens draft choice off the field. Then presented with another player at the same position who fit that Ravens mold better (Correa) they were far more willing to buy into his tape because as a person they liked him more.

If the Ravens only plan on drafting guys without any off the field issues then we will slowly decline.  I know Lewis had issues, don't remember what they were.  But ignoring guys like Spence to take a guy like KC will show on the field, already is. 

[redlobster]

Pre-draft scouting compared him to Frank Zombo , lol. I personally don't see one thing he does well.