Predicting the rankings in our division

[trevorsteadman]

I still think this team is pretty solid all around and well coached. But we all have to hold our breath a little after last season with the injuries and close games we lost. I want to say a 9-10 win team because I believe this schedule is a lot more forgiving both in teams played and travel time. Also a healthy Perriman and Wallace I believe will open up more on offense than people think. I also have more faith in our running backs this year than the year previous. Forsett is a year older and ehh but West and Dixon have shown flashes.

I think the Ravens probably are around a wild card team as of now. I believe Pittsburgh wins the division but it wouldn't surprise me if the Ravens went further in the play offs because they seem to be built better to get win games in December and January. I think red zone offense is going to be huge this season and if we can be successful at that then I think this team can be a top 10 offense.

[JoeyFlex5]

31 minutes ago, Ravens4Real said:

First, find where I said they would win the division. They didn't win the division last year. I said they would make the playoffs again. Once again, I don't think you are comprehending what I'm typing.

And who in the heck is their top pass rusher that they are missing? Dupree?! He tied for 6th last year on their team in sacks. Not sure where you are getting that he is their best pass rusher. I'd give that to one of their DT in Tuitt or Heyward. 

Again, stop spewing the same nonsense over and over again.

Now you're just arguing semantics, you're supporting the pundits who are already crowning them division winners so pardon me for thinking you were saying this. 

And they draft a first round edge rusher last year, and they have no other options at edge rush, just because he didn't lead the team in sacks doesn't mean he isn't at least one of their top edge rushers. Almost Their entire pass rush is now going to come from Their down 3 because harrison, jones, and moats aren't gonna be bringing much pressure, if your top pass rushers are DTs in a 34 then You aren't in great shape, but sure use a raw stat from a rookie edge rusher and NOTHING else to support you whole argument about the pass rush.

[Ravens4Real]

11 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Now you're just arguing semantics, you're supporting the pundits who are already crowning them division winners so pardon me for thinking you were saying this. 

And they draft a first round edge rusher last year, and they have no other options at edge rush, just because he didn't lead the team in sacks doesn't mean he isn't at least one of their top edge rushers. Almost Their entire pass rush is now going to come from Their down 3 because harrison, jones, and moats aren't gonna be bringing much pressure, if your top pass rushers are DTs in a 34 then You aren't in great shape, but sure use a raw stat from a rookie edge rusher and NOTHING else to support you whole argument about the pass rush.

SMH...

[jboy19]

I think playoffs will be tough to make this year. Realistically, I think that we will be behind the Steelers and Bengals, which will both get to playoffs again, then we'll be in the mix with the second AFC South team (Colts/Texans/Jaguars), second AFC West team (Chiefs/Broncos/Raiders), and the second AFC East team (Patriots/Jets/Bills). Its not impossible because most of these teams have pretty big question marks. 

[OUravensfan]

Bengals lost Jones and Sanu but Tyler Boyd has looked good in the pre season and could develop into someone better than those two. They also use Bernard a lot in the passing game, he had more receptions than both those guys last year. As long as they have Green and Eifert, others will be open by default. Still have a good line too. 

 

 

[757RavensFan]

22 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Well I don't like the Steelers but then again I hate the patriots far more AND I'm picking them to represent the afc in the super bowl this year, and both of these things are well documented so obviously I don't have a problem putting feelings aside to make way for facts. 

The facts are this... They're a 1 dimensional team when they don't have their rb, who IS either suspended or injured for practically half of any given season, so with his suspension and bryants year long suspension, they're suddenly 1 dimensional and missing the 2nd option of their only effective means of offense. If you wanna buy into Sammie Coates or Markus Wheaton then be my guest but I'm not. If you wanna buy into jarvis Jones and Arthur moats then be my guest with James Harrison being the only remaining player with a lick of pass rush ability, if you think shazier has even a relatively healthy season for the first time ever then be my guest. You can think ross cockrell and William gay and Justin Gilbert are suddenly gonna be good but there is absolutely no reason for one to believe that, the truth is that the steelers have a qb who has beaten up worse than any one not named Tony romo, a shaky OL, a starting rb who carries the load in the seemingly rare occasion that he makes it on the field, ONE wr, a nice DL rotation granted its lacking a true quality NT, a solid ilb corps with half of it being often injured, and literally everything else is hot garbage from the starters to the bench. 

So yeah, steelers Have really improved by permanently losing one of their 3 offensive weapons and losing another for a portion of the season. They've really made strides on defense with their only real potential edge rusher Dupree going to ir with no solution to supplant the tiny bit of pass rush he provided them. and adding artie burns and Sean Davis and Justin gilbert was a real quality upgtade for their dumpster fire secondary, I'm sure they'll be much improved with such a ferocious pass rush in front of them.

Sorry man, I usually agree with you on a lot you say, but the part I hi-lighted isn't facts, but your opinion.  Big difference. 

[Willbacker]

I think its safe to say the Browns will finish last in the division and then its rock....paper.... scissors.

[sibelius]

I see the Browns giving the Steelers fits this year and ultimately being the difference in pushing the Ravens over the top. 

[Ravens4Real]

10 minutes ago, sibelius said:

I see the Browns giving the Steelers fits this year and ultimately being the difference in pushing the Ravens over the top. 

The Browns have actually given every team in this division fits. Almost all our games against the Browns are closely contested. They just never have the personnel to close out a game.

[PurpleCity5]

I have to agree with some here, the Steelers are being overrated. I think they'll finish 1st but that defense is going to be a huge problem for them. I don't think they have much talent in the secondary at all and that's to go with what looks to be a horrid pass rush. Who is their best pass rusher on the outside? Jarvis Jones? Seriously? I think he's solid but that's all. Bud Dupree is out for 6 weeks and behind him there is no depth at that pass rush. Like Joey and others have said when your pass rush is centered on the inside than you got a problem. I like Casey Hayward but they have no premiere pass rushers at all. The offense looks lights out honestly, but they will miss Martavis Bryant, and they don't have a reliable TE, maybe Jesse James but I haven't heard a lot about him and Green's injury will hurt them badly since they will sorely miss an athletic vertical TE who can attack the middle. I like Wheaton and he seems to be due for a big year if he's healthy, and a big pay day(Which is what he's going after) but after him and Antonio Brown, I honestly have to ask who do they have down there? I don't see a lot of depth at WR honestly. 

[Maryland]

I feel like the Steelers are overrated, probably due to fantasy football and the allure of Ben, Brown, and Bell. I recognize that they will have one of the best offenses in the game once Bell returns in week 4, but they still have a very bad situation at LT, an injury-prone QB, no proven WRs beyond Brown, no proven TE until Green returns, a weak pass rush, and a secondary that has somehow been worse than ours over the past couple years. Add all that with Tomlin's penchant for losing to terrible teams and I think you've got an overrated team, at least when prognosticators pick them to steamroll the AFC and easily win the #1 seed.

That said, I think I would still pick the Steelers as the favorite, and I can't blame others for doing so either, since I'm just not sure about their competition for the division. The Bengals are taking a step back from last year (losing their OC, two WRs, TE is injured, lost some CBs, running game a question mark after last year). The Ravens are coming off a 5 win season with a lot to prove--I still have a lot of questions about our defense, and I have to see Joe play well in some real games to truly believe he's back to form. 

So I guess if I'm going to rank them based on wins

Steelers 11-5

Ravens 10-6

Bengals 9-7

Browns 0-16

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

On September 6, 2016 at 4:23 PM, RavensPunkXVX said:

We're not the best team because we're unproven. Flacco still has mediocre outings in regular season games. SSS, Suggs, Doom, Forsett, Perriman, Pitta are all coming back after injuries. Weddle is a new piece as well as Wallace. We have some good, young talent, that we've seen in preseason and in camp, but will they produce in the regular season? I think this team has all of the potential in the world, but they have to put it all together, and right now, we're not sure what they're capable of as a TEAM. 

So bc were unsure of things means we are definitely not the best team in the division? They play the games for a reason. 

I actually agree and believe we are the best team in the division. We beat Pitts high powered offense once last year with our practice squad. 

Bengals games always go to the death but we'll get at least one from them this year. 

4-2 division record. No one will have a better division record. So it comes down to non-divisional games. 

Bengals and Steelers take a step back while we're taking a huge leap forward (when we weren't even that far behind either last year when we were awful). 

Were the most well rounded team in the division and probably the deepest. I like our weapons better than anyone else's. 

TEs - us. 

WRs - us. 

RBs - Pitt if Leveon comes back in form. 

OL - Cinci or us

QB - Pitt if he's healthy but he never is. This could be the year Joe pulls past now that he's got weapons. 

DL - TBD

LBs - us

CBs - Cinci

Safeties - us or Cinci

K - us

P - Us

KR - us

PR - Pitt if they use brown

And I think we have by far the best depth and most potential breakout players. With known commodities it's very close. But we have way more upside imo, and if even a couple of these guys pan out (Perriman, Stanley, Moore, Wallace, TEs, Weddle, Judon, Z, etc...) then we can take a quantum leap. 

Oh almost forgot....

HC - us

 

Harbs did a miracle job with scrubs last year keeping every game competitive. With talent again and vet leadership he's not missing the playoffs. Harbs has the 9-7, 10-6 season and sneak into the playoffs by getting hot at the right time down to a science. 

And it'll happen again. Could Cinci or Pitt have a better regular season record? Sure. Bc they do that. But see us in the playoffs. We win. 

That's the best team. Not who is supposedly good on paper right now. Pitt without Bryant and Bell is going to struggle out the gate. Drop 2-3 games and they're in trouble. 

Cinci without giving Dalton an embarrassment of riches is in trouble. Without Hue the offense sputters and the D is talented but not disciplined enough to do anything. 

Coaching uktimately puts us over. Best in the AFCN and ultimately a top 8, with upside of a top 4, 2, or THE top team when all is said and done. 

This team is better then our '14 and '12 teams. '11 may have been a bit better but it'll be close. This is our best all around roster in a long time. And our QB has toys. The offense is going to explode. 

[Ronald Miles]

On 9/6/2016 at 3:33 PM, Space11jams said:

First time posting a topic so hopefully it sparks good, clean dialogue. Where do you guys see baltimore ranked in our division/nfl? Now i'm seeing a lot of analyst as always rank us third in our division and about 20 compared to the nfl which is a slap in the face if you asked me. I honestly think that our division is a toss up between us, steelers and bengals only because of our gains and losses. We gained a lot of depth and good quality contributors in the offseason. Bengals lost their OC and some other quality players but i haven't seen any big gains other than draft. Steelers lost some guys as well and their def isn't the same anymore. They have that high powered offense but i don't believe that's enough to take the division. Now as far as us ranking in the league, i see us at 14 with tons of potential to improve. Now i find it disrespectful to put the bengals, chargers, chiefs and cowboys in front of us but that's just me. What do you guys think?

I agree 100%,but I like us flying under the radar. We were in every game last season. I like your ranking, but we will win the division.

[OUravensfan]

5 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

So bc were unsure of things means we are definitely not the best team in the division? They play the games for a reason. 

I actually agree and believe we are the best team in the division. We beat Pitts high powered offense once last year with our practice squad. 

Bengals games always go to the death but we'll get at least one from them this year. 

4-2 division record. No one will have a better division record. So it comes down to non-divisional games. 

Bengals and Steelers take a step back while we're taking a huge leap forward (when we weren't even that far behind either last year when we were awful). 

Were the most well rounded team in the division and probably the deepest. I like our weapons better than anyone else's. 

TEs - us. 

WRs - us. 

RBs - Pitt if Leveon comes back in form. 

OL - Cinci or us

QB - Pitt if he's healthy but he never is. This could be the year Joe pulls past now that he's got weapons. 

DL - TBD

LBs - us

CBs - Cinci

Safeties - us or Cinci

K - us

P - Us

KR - us

PR - Pitt if they use brown

And I think we have by far the best depth and most potential breakout players. With known commodities it's very close. But we have way more upside imo, and if even a couple of these guys pan out (Perriman, Stanley, Moore, Wallace, TEs, Weddle, Judon, Z, etc...) then we can take a quantum leap. 

Oh almost forgot....

HC - us

 

Harbs did a miracle job with scrubs last year keeping every game competitive. With talent again and vet leadership he's not missing the playoffs. Harbs has the 9-7, 10-6 season and sneak into the playoffs by getting hot at the right time down to a science. 

And it'll happen again. Could Cinci or Pitt have a better regular season record? Sure. Bc they do that. But see us in the playoffs. We win. 

That's the best team. Not who is supposedly good on paper right now. Pitt without Bryant and Bell is going to struggle out the gate. Drop 2-3 games and they're in trouble. 

Cinci without giving Dalton an embarrassment of riches is in trouble. Without Hue the offense sputters and the D is talented but not disciplined enough to do anything. 

Coaching uktimately puts us over. Best in the AFCN and ultimately a top 8, with upside of a top 4, 2, or THE top team when all is said and done. 

This team is better then our '14 and '12 teams. '11 may have been a bit better but it'll be close. This is our best all around roster in a long time. And our QB has toys. The offense is going to explode. 

Dalton still has a top 3 line, WR and TE, Boyd will probably be good and he still has two good running backs. The Bengals are still the more complete team, we're not the best team until we prove it again.

No objection on our propensity to be clutch in January with Flacco and Harbaugh over the other guys, that's why if we make the playoffs, look out. I mean look at 2014, if we had a healthy secondary we could have played Seattle in the Super Bowl.

[JoeyFlex5]

9 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

Sorry man, I usually agree with you on a lot you say, but the part I hi-lighted isn't facts, but your opinion.  Big difference. 

Maybe overstated but there is some truth to everything I said. Their defense is too much a liability and they have 1real receiving threat, and until leveon shows he can stay on the field then I will consider them at least somewhat 1 dimensional, deangelo Williams had a solid season but with his mileage you can't expect that from him every year. They're a pass first team missing one of the better deep threats in the league and their rb who is excellent in passing downs struggles to stay on the field.

[Purple_City39]

Yeah, the Steelers are overrated.  That offense only really took off when Bryant started getting significant snaps half way through 2014 (minus the beating giving to that bad Panthers team).  Bryants gone for the year and Wheaton won't add the same threat element.  Maybe Coates can be he hasn't looked that good so far this preseason with many drops and poor route running.  In fact, it looks like Coates has been leaped on the depth chart by Eli Rogers.  And then Bell is out 4 games.  Williams has been good for them

On defense, the Steelers aren't really a threat.  William Gay is their best corner and he'll be playing outside when he's at his best in the slot.  Their other corners are nothing to lose your mind over.  Jarvis Jones is still a bum and Dupree is out half the year.  A 3-4 team with no pass rush from it's OLBs and only getting pressure from the line should easier to scheme against.  Shazier has speed but no instincts.  Timmons has instincts but is getting older and losing speed.  And their safeties are average at best.

The Steelers will need to score 30+ per game and I'm not sure the offense does that this season without Bryant.  The Bengals should still be the class of the division

[Ravens4Real]

Sorry, but a healthy Eifert playing every snap is a lot better than what we are currently offering at TE.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

9 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

Sorry man, I usually agree with you on a lot you say, but the part I hi-lighted isn't facts, but your opinion.  Big difference. 

Bryant and Leveon being out are facts. Bud Dupree being their only edge rusher with upside and missing is a fact. Harrison still gets it done but hes not improving, only place to go is down.

Their WR depth is questionable at best. Brown will get his, any decent coordinator will find ways to let him still get his without blowing the game open. Roethlisberger hasnt been healthy a full season since I can remember, and hes only getting older - expecting him to do so is more questionable than expecting him to miss time. That's a fact.

Their secondary is atrocious. They played above their heads last season, and were just mediocre. Theyre relying on rookies and reclamation projects to fix the secondary. Their pass rush is relying on a late-thirty-something to continue his fountain of youth performances, and thats a risky proposition. I just dont see anywhere that this defense puts fear in anyone. They will probably hold up against the run, but should be picked apart in the passing game.

I mean, I know their offense was still potent with Williams in place of Bell, and without Bryant for good portions of last year - but they werent world beaters. We beat them twice - a good portion of our starters barely nipped them with a backup QB, but our practice squad unit beat their first team. Browns never really exploded against us. And with more tape on what this offense is sans Bryant and Bell, they just arent nearly as dynamic. 

 

I'm not saying theyre going to be terrible... but everyones talking like this is going to be the greatest offense of all time. I dont see any glaring reason to expect them to be much better than last year, and they were solid. They will be solid again, in the play off hunt... But i dont see anything on paper or otherwise that says theyre better than us.

 

We were right there with everyone in the division, and we should be taking a quantum leap forward with the 2nd year under our OC, like 50 major pieces returning healthy, and we have by far the most potential break out candidates of any team in the division.

[Ravens4Real]

6 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Bryant and Leveon being out are facts. Bud Dupree being their only edge rusher with upside and missing is a fact. Harrison still gets it done but hes not improving, only place to go is down.

Their WR depth is questionable at best. Brown will get his, any decent coordinator will find ways to let him still get his without blowing the game open. Roethlisberger hasnt been healthy a full season since I can remember, and hes only getting older - expecting him to do so is more questionable than expecting him to miss time. That's a fact.

Their secondary is atrocious. They played above their heads last season, and were just mediocre. Theyre relying on rookies and reclamation projects to fix the secondary. Their pass rush is relying on a late-thirty-something to continue his fountain of youth performances, and thats a risky proposition. I just dont see anywhere that this defense puts fear in anyone. They will probably hold up against the run, but should be picked apart in the passing game.

I mean, I know their offense was still potent with Williams in place of Bell, and without Bryant for good portions of last year - but they werent world beaters. We beat them twice - a good portion of our starters barely nipped them with a backup QB, but our practice squad unit beat their first team. Browns never really exploded against us. And with more tape on what this offense is sans Bryant and Bell, they just arent nearly as dynamic. 

 

I'm not saying theyre going to be terrible... but everyones talking like this is going to be the greatest offense of all time. I dont see any glaring reason to expect them to be much better than last year, and they were solid. They will be solid again, in the play off hunt... But i dont see anything on paper or otherwise that says theyre better than us.

 

We were right there with everyone in the division, and we should be taking a quantum leap forward with the 2nd year under our OC, like 50 major pieces returning healthy, and we have by far the most potential break out candidates of any team in the division.

Until the games start, no one knows what will happen. No one on this board knows how their defense will perform this year. 

A Steeler fan can write a scathing post just like yours against basically our whole team also.

Until the product on the field is shown, no one knows what will happen this season.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

18 minutes ago, Ravens4Real said:

Sorry, but a healthy Eifert playing every snap is a lot better than what we are currently offering at TE.

Maybe Eifert vs any one of our TEs. But our TE group is better than the Bengals.

Pitta was rounding into and Eifert type player before injuries killed him... and all reports say he hasnt skipped a beat. Maxx has similar upside, and Gillmore is a monster. Throw in a Waller or Boyle for good measure later on in the season and its not close.

Sure Eifert can win a one-on-one matchup, but I think Levine will do a good job against him. We can go 2-3 TEs, bring out the heavy defensive package and create mismatches all day. Put a safety on Gillmore and he'll abuse him. Put a LB on Pitta and hes toast.

I'll take 3 average to slightly above average quality starters with upside at TE over one really good one. I was ranking positional groups - assuming your comment was referring to mine.

Just like I'd take Brown over any of our receivers, but I'll take the group of SSS, Aiken, Wallace, Perriman and Moore over Brown, Wheaton, Coates and Rogers any day. You can limit a top guy by scheme... can you really count on the other guys to make a play when it matters? I have a lot more faith in Aiken or Wallace to make a play than Wheaton or Coates.

I have a lot more faith in Gillmore or Maxx Williams to make a play than I do.... honestly dont even know who Cinci's other TEs are.

 

I think quality depth is far more important in the NFL than a couple pieces of top end talent. Bc you can put a top end talent on a top end talent and the results will usually average out to be negligible. Or you can double team or scheme against one outstanding threat. Where youre really dangerous is then if your 2nd, 3rd and 4th guys have a huge advantage in the 1on1 matchups over their counter parts. 

Put your 4th CB on Aiken and watch what happens. He proved he can produce against top end talent last year... now drawing 3rd and 4th guys he should eat very well. Perriman on athletic talent alone is going to way outclass the athletic ability of any 4th or 5th DB. He's gotta prove it, but he'll have a clear advantage in that regard, and if you dont shift help over the top hes going to get behind.

I just dont know what you do against us. You almost have to shade safety help over Perriman and Wallace or you're flirting with disaster. Do that and youre leaving our best weapon 1on1 in acres of space along with TEs who know how to get open... and a stable of RBs who are quality and will be consistently fresh.

 

I think Joe said it best. For us to succeed, I think all he's going to have to do is find the open man. Put any combination of 3-5 weapons on the field and somewhere along the line we should have a distinct advantage. Pitt and Cinci are going to have to rely heavily on Brown continuing to beat double and triple coverage... Green and Eifert doing the same. 

we have the top end talent that on any given day can beat another teams top end talent... but when that fails we're not doomed bc our 3rd, 4th, and 5th guys should have an advantage over theirs somewhere.

 

Maybe im over stating it. But i just dont see what youd do if you line up Wallace and Moore out wide on one side, Perriman wide on the other, and 2 of SSS/Aiken/Pitta in the slot, short and intermediate field. Youve got to fear all 3 outside guys beating you deep, so you either have to give help over the top or play off. You go off, and theyve savvy enough to win off the line with slants and hitches and crossing routes. Try to jam em and they can burn you. Go man to man and one will likely burn you. Jam and give the help over top, are you really allocating 5-6 DBs to stop 3 guys? Ok then SSS, Aiken or Pitta have a 1on1 with a LB. Maybe you win that sometimes, but youre not going to all day. Plus with all that space, a draw with Dixon and hes ripping off 10-15 yards on the regular.

This offense will stretch the field wide, deep and force you to want to come up to stack the box. Thats just way too much space for most teams to consistently defend with regular success... especially when we're talking guys that have proven to succeed with far less favorable situations.

 

I think our offense has more explosive potential than the Steelers. Theres a good chance you can shut down 1 or 2 guys, or maybe 1 of them has an off day. When that happens it impacts the Steelers and Cinci big time. I mean, are we really going to have all 3-4 RBs, 3-4 WRs, and 2-3 TEs having off days or being unsuccessful with any regularity? And i dont think im overestimating our guys. Its not like im saying Aikens going to regularly beat top corners. He's just going to have to beat 3rd and 4th guys. And if not then you're giving SSS or Wallace a 3rd or 4th guy. Pick your poison and they all kill you.

[JoeyFlex5]

Boldnpurpnblack you said what I've been saying this whole time but there seems to be Steelers apologists here who want to think we don't stand a chance. Like being a ravens fan I understand you don't wanna sound biased, but disregarding facts and overshooting expectations by a ridiculous margin just to overhype them Like the rest of the media makes no sense at all to me.

[Ravens4Real]

2 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Boldnpurpnblack you said what I've been saying this whole time but there seems to be Steelers apologists here who want to think we don't stand a chance. Like being a ravens fan I understand you don't wanna sound biased, but disregarding facts and overshooting expectations by a ridiculous margin just to overhype them Like the rest of the media makes no sense at all to me.

There's a difference between being extremely optimistic and being a realist. 

You two seem to have some serious purple shades on when posting. 

I never overhyped the Steelers either. You need to stop putting words in my mouth. All I said earlier was that on paper they don't seem to be worse than last year and they made the playoffs. That's all I said. I don't understand how it is so hard to understand that.

You both are talking about Ravens players that are complete unknowns at this point and making them out to be hall of famers. 

We have absolutely no idea what we are going to get out of Wallace (seems to be on the downside of his career the past couple years), SSS (old and coming off of major injury), Perrimen (can't stay healthy, has never played a meaningful down) and Moore (rookie). I'm sorry I'm not here making asinine claims that if we go 5 wide with these guys that we can't be stopped. LIKE, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?! Unless you are just being a complete homer?

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

22 minutes ago, Ravens4Real said:

Until the games start, no one knows what will happen. No one on this board knows how their defense will perform this year. 

A Steeler fan can write a scathing post just like yours against basically our whole team also.

Until the product on the field is shown, no one knows what will happen this season.

I mean, you're not exposing any unknown truth. But if thats the attitude we're all gonna take, why have these boards? 

Tom Brady could break his leg, and the Pats wont be nearly as good. Thats not what we're talking about though. We're talking about things evidenced by last year, training camp, and years of results.

The Browns could win the division. Any given sunday, ya know. And sure a Steelers fan could say - Well, Flaccos not going to be the same after the ACL, SSS is going to be a shell of himself, Stanley will be awful, Dixons was a mirage in the PS, Forsett drops off the earth, there wasnt any truth to West, Wallace is toast, Perriman is a bust, Suggs and Doom are done, Aiken was fluke last year beating top corners - he wont beat backups this year, Moore's potential is years off, Weddle and Webb dont improve on the early pitiful duo last year, a healthy Jimmy isnt any better than the injured version, Pitta wont be the same, the improvement we saw from Gillmore last year will stall, Maxx wont develop at all, Yanda will die, Mosley regresses even further, Levine will be the ST player he always was preseason means nothing, Zadarius cant supplement the pass rush... his streak to end the year was just lucky, Tuckers going to put it in cruise control now that hes paid, Trestmans offense will be ineffective even though it operated incredibly efficiently all preseason with backups driving the car, and Harbs will lose his coaching ability.

Sure, you can say that. And theres some credence to some of it, and im sure some of those will actually come true. It took literally that long of a list of disasters for us to go 5-11 last year with almost every game within a score... and were actually a 6-10 team that was a couple plays from 8-8. So, yea that list can happen, but the likelihood is minuscule.

The number of things that need to go wrong for the Steelers to take a step back are few and have precedent. Bell has missed a lot of time every year. Ben hasnt been healthy in how long. Those 2 things happen and theyre struggling. If Brown isnt the best WR in the NFL, their passing game is no where near as dynamic... and theyre counting on a guy to continue the most prolific receiving streak in NFL history. Its not far fetched to think he cant keep up the 110-120 catches for 1600-1800 yard performances.

If Dalton isnt what he was last year, we know what Cinci is. A good regular season team that cant get it done in big moments. And hes only had one good year and it was with an embarrassment of riches at skill positions. Eifert is always hurt and will miss the beginning of the season. Their D has been undisciplined for years now.

 

So yes, all 3 bad scenarios can happen. But, we saw this same Ravens team with less talent within a couple plays of beating the eventual SB champs in '14.... and i think its pretty obvious this is an improved roster. '15 was a fluke for so many reasons, if it happens again kill me.

we've seen pretty much everything go well for the bengals and theyre a one-and-done. Without the weapons and having had their coordinators poached in 3 consecutive seasons can they really sustain? 

I just think for us to be bad like last year, such a ridiculous amount of things have to happen its crazy. Bengals lose AJ Green or Eifert and its a wrap. Steelers lose Ben, Brown or Bell for the year and its a wrap. Of course, if we lose Flacco it probably is too, but we can afford to lose SSS, Forsett, Pitta, etc... and still be just as competitive. We saw every one of those scenarios play out last year and it still took everything our opponents had to eek out victories.

[Ravens4Real]

3 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I mean, you're not exposing any unknown truth. But if thats the attitude we're all gonna take, why have these boards? 

Tom Brady could break his leg, and the Pats wont be nearly as good. Thats not what we're talking about though. We're talking about things evidenced by last year, training camp, and years of results.

The Browns could win the division. Any given sunday, ya know. And sure a Steelers fan could say - Well, Flaccos not going to be the same after the ACL, SSS is going to be a shell of himself, Stanley will be awful, Dixons was a mirage in the PS, Forsett drops off the earth, there wasnt any truth to West, Wallace is toast, Perriman is a bust, Suggs and Doom are done, Aiken was fluke last year beating top corners - he wont beat backups this year, Moore's potential is years off, Weddle and Webb dont improve on the early pitiful duo last year, a healthy Jimmy isnt any better than the injured version, Pitta wont be the same, the improvement we saw from Gillmore last year will stall, Maxx wont develop at all, Yanda will die, Mosley regresses even further, Levine will be the ST player he always was preseason means nothing, Zadarius cant supplement the pass rush... his streak to end the year was just lucky, Tuckers going to put it in cruise control now that hes paid, Trestmans offense will be ineffective even though it operated incredibly efficiently all preseason with backups driving the car, and Harbs will lose his coaching ability.

Sure, you can say that. And theres some credence to some of it, and im sure some of those will actually come true. It took literally that long of a list of disasters for us to go 5-11 last year with almost every game within a score... and were actually a 6-10 team that was a couple plays from 8-8. So, yea that list can happen, but the likelihood is minuscule.

The number of things that need to go wrong for the Steelers to take a step back are few and have precedent. Bell has missed a lot of time every year. Ben hasnt been healthy in how long. Those 2 things happen and theyre struggling. If Brown isnt the best WR in the NFL, their passing game is no where near as dynamic... and theyre counting on a guy to continue the most prolific receiving streak in NFL history. Its not far fetched to think he cant keep up the 110-120 catches for 1600-1800 yard performances.

If Dalton isnt what he was last year, we know what Cinci is. A good regular season team that cant get it done in big moments. And hes only had one good year and it was with an embarrassment of riches at skill positions. Eifert is always hurt and will miss the beginning of the season. Their D has been undisciplined for years now.

 

So yes, all 3 bad scenarios can happen. But, we saw this same Ravens team with less talent within a couple plays of beating the eventual SB champs in '14.... and i think its pretty obvious this is an improved roster. '15 was a fluke for so many reasons, if it happens again kill me.

we've seen pretty much everything go well for the bengals and theyre a one-and-done. Without the weapons and having had their coordinators poached in 3 consecutive seasons can they really sustain? 

I just think for us to be bad like last year, such a ridiculous amount of things have to happen its crazy. Bengals lose AJ Green or Eifert and its a wrap. Steelers lose Ben, Brown or Bell for the year and its a wrap. Of course, if we lose Flacco it probably is too, but we can afford to lose SSS, Forsett, Pitta, etc... and still be just as competitive. We saw every one of those scenarios play out last year and it still took everything our opponents had to eek out victories.

Didn't the Bengals lose Dalton and the Steelers lose Bell and Big Ben? And they still made the playoffs? The injury excuse can only get a team so far. And before you bring up all the other injuries we had, every team has a ton of injuries. It's the NFL. And by the time Flacco went out for the year, our season was already in the tubes.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

9 minutes ago, Ravens4Real said:

There's a difference between being extremely optimistic and being a realist. 

You two seem to have some serious purple shades on when posting. 

I never overhyped the Steelers either. You need to stop putting words in my mouth. All I said earlier was that on paper they don't seem to be worse than last year and they made the playoffs. That's all I said. I don't understand how it is so hard to understand that.

You both are talking about Ravens players that are complete unknowns at this point and making them out to be hall of famers. 

We have absolutely no idea what we are going to get out of Wallace (seems to be on the downside of his career the past couple years), SSS (old and coming off of major injury), Perrimen (can't stay healthy, has never played a meaningful down) and Moore (rookie). I'm sorry I'm not here making asinine claims that if we go 5 wide with these guys that we can't be stopped. LIKE, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?! Unless you are just being a complete homer?

And all im saying is we had a catastrophic failure last year, still won 6 games and almost every loss was one score. That was CATASTROPHIC MELTDOWN.

Not only are we returning all the core pieces that had us within a couple plays of whipping the SB champs in '14, we've added speed, athleticism, talent and serious depth across every position group.

If a roster that was, on paper, worse than this years Ravens was better than the Steelers and CInci who, on paper, were better in '14... why is it Purple Shades to expect a dramatically improve Ravens team to be better than an arguably weakened Steelers/Cinci teams, who at best look stagnant to slightly improved.

 

Yes, all 3 will play each other close head to head. Last year proved that without a doubt. Our JV beat an almost full strength steelers, who as you pointed out were a playoff team. Point out Cincis and the Steelers improvements over last year. Point out their losses.

We've lost nothing from last year, and have improved literally everywhere.

 

Everyone saying well last year we went 5-11, so until proven otherwise we're the 5-11 ravens. I get it... we all love our football tropes "you are who your record says you are"... but the team that went 5-11 isnt this team. Its pretty much the same as saying well the Titans were X record last year so we're going to be the same this year... bc theres just about as much carry over from last years titans to this years ravens as there is from last years ravens to this years.

'15 says nothing about the '16 Ravens. We lost our most critical defensive piece and leader week 1, and in subsequent weeks just lost more and more. Prior to Suggs injury, again in '15 we had the eventual SB champs beat.

So, in '14 and '15... when the majority of the '16 Ravens pieces were on the field we were beating the SB champs from both seasons.

Since the core of this team was the core of those teams, and our depth has only gotten better.... that tells me its more practical to assume this team is really good than to say... well since our 3rd a stringers and PS players went 5-11 (even though it was really 6-10, and that was the best darn 6-10 record youll ever see) we just cant assume we're better than that until things play out.

Ok. Have fun with that. Sure, technically theres some truth to that. But since 75% of the players who contributed the majority of that 5-11 record are either way down the depth charts, inactives or werent good enough to make the team... i dont see how it has much bearing on this years projection... and thats what we're doing here - projecting.... not looking back.

And since the bulk of what will be on the field for us in '16 barring any catastrophic failures and injuries again (which is frivolous to predict and expect) were definitely good enough to beat the '14 and '15 SB champs, and at the very least be very competitive with them.... its entirely reasonable to expect us to be right there with those teams.

We're every bit as good as the Steelers, Cinci, the Pats, Denver, KC, you name it. Suggs, Doom, SSS, Flacco, Weddle, Mosley, Williams, Jimmy, Pitta, all didnt just forget how to play football really well.

 

But no point in trying to change anyones mind. Youll call us homers with Purple Shades and I'll call you a pessimist and parrot who just follows the national narrative. The Steelers and Cinci's DNA or gameplan hasnt worked in years. Its good enough to get them in playoff contention and at best win a game. Ours gets us to the dance and makes us the only team the Pats fear once there.

Ask BB which game he's most worried about on their schedule and i guarantee he's worried about the matchup with Harbs and Flacco.

Edited September 8, 2016 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[JoeyFlex5]

13 minutes ago, Ravens4Real said:

There's a difference between being extremely optimistic and being a realist. 

You two seem to have some serious purple shades on when posting. 

I never overhyped the Steelers either. You need to stop putting words in my mouth. All I said earlier was that on paper they don't seem to be worse than last year and they made the playoffs. That's all I said. I don't understand how it is so hard to understand that.

You both are talking about Ravens players that are complete unknowns at this point and making them out to be hall of famers. 

We have absolutely no idea what we are going to get out of Wallace (seems to be on the downside of his career the past couple years), SSS (old and coming off of major injury), Perrimen (can't stay healthy, has never played a meaningful down) and Moore (rookie). I'm sorry I'm not here making asinine claims that if we go 5 wide with these guys that we can't be stopped. LIKE, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?! Unless you are just being a complete homer?

And we're putting words in your mouth? Lmao. I know we're a big fat unknown, I know we could go 5-11 again or we could go 12-4 or something, a lot of grey area, just like there is for the Steelers. 

We have been simply stating why the Steelers are overrated, and instead of saying "they are still a decent team" you blatantly argue against the notion that they are anything less than what the media makes them out to be. You also say they haven't regressed but they have made no meaningful additions and have lost key pieces with no backup plans, so it's what... Addition by subtraction? That doesn't work when the subtractions are the highest upside pass rusher and the key deep threat. You may not be saying the Steelers are automatic super bowl winners like half the media, but you are going wayyyyy out of your way to say they are better than they are. On paper they have regressed and you don't even begin to acknowledge it.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

5 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

And we're putting words in your mouth? Lmao. I know we're a big fat unknown, I know we could go 5-11 again or we could go 12-4 or something, a lot of grey area, just like there is for the Steelers. 

We have been simply stating why the Steelers are overrated, and instead of saying "they are still a decent team" you blatantly argue against the notion that they are anything less than what the media makes them out to be. You also say they haven't regressed but they have made no meaningful additions and have lost key pieces with no backup plans, so it's what... Addition by subtraction? That doesn't work when the subtractions are the highest upside pass rusher and the key deep threat. You may not be saying the Steelers are automatic super bowl winners like half the media, but you are going wayyyyy out of your way to say they are better than they are. On paper they have regressed and you don't even begin to acknowledge it.

Yea, i dont understand it.

Its purple shades to say that returning Flacco, SSS, Suggs, Doom, Forsett, Pitta, upgrading the LT, depth at pass rush, huge upgrades at safety, depth at CB, adding young talents with huge breakout potential in Perriman and Dixon, getting an established speed merchant akin to Torrey with Wallace - all those clear and obvious additions/returns on last years 5-11 isnt justification to expect improvement...

But the Steelers not having Bell, losing Bryant, losing Beachum, losing their top talent at edge rush (maybe not top producer, but def top talent), depending on rookies in crucial areas (whereas we';ve added tons of rookie potential, but made veteran additions so we're not depending on it)... and not really adding anything in terms of proven veteran players... thats not regression.

And Cinci losing a brilliant offensive mind who made that team play the best they have, losing their entire receiver depth, counting on a rookie to be a capable 2 so Green doesnt have to be the passing game, expecting Dalton who aside from one stretch has never been anything better than average to repeat that performance sans the weapons and OC... who lost depth/talent in the secondary, and likewise made almost no veteran proven additions... and will be missing their dynamic TE and best LB to begin the season...

We're returning everything that made us a SB contender in '14 PLUS veteran and young talent everywhere to a roster that was beating the '15 SB champs before losing the most crucial defensive piece... while both the others are coming back missing huge parts of what made them successful last year.

We gain so much but temper those expectations. we're 5-11 until proven otherwise. theyve both lost big pieces and are counting on mainly rookie contributions to improve their weaknesses/losses but hey - they should improve watch out.

What!?!?

[Ravens4Real]

30 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

And we're putting words in your mouth? Lmao. I know we're a big fat unknown, I know we could go 5-11 again or we could go 12-4 or something, a lot of grey area, just like there is for the Steelers. 

We have been simply stating why the Steelers are overrated, and instead of saying "they are still a decent team" you blatantly argue against the notion that they are anything less than what the media makes them out to be. You also say they haven't regressed but they have made no meaningful additions and have lost key pieces with no backup plans, so it's what... Addition by subtraction? That doesn't work when the subtractions are the highest upside pass rusher and the key deep threat. You may not be saying the Steelers are automatic super bowl winners like half the media, but you are going wayyyyy out of your way to say they are better than they are. On paper they have regressed and you don't even begin to acknowledge it.

I refuse to argue with someone who continually states that I have said something that never was said. For about the 15th time, I never said the Steelers were going to the super bowl. Please find me where I said that. I love how you continually argue how they lost their best "upside pass rusher" what in the hell does that even mean. My brother just had a kid. I bet I'd have the best "upside as an uncle"  if I didn't have other brothers who were better than me. Do you see how stupid you sound? 

I don't see how on defense you can't say the Steelers have not gotten a tiny bit better. They have drafted multiple high draft picks. 

I have already stated that the loss of Bryant will hurt them. Once again, I have said that multiple times. I don't know if your reading comprehension is lacking or that you are just ignoring what I am saying because it doesn't fit your argument.

And for the last time, all I have said is that the Steelers, I BELIEVE, have not lost too much to still be in the playoff hunt at the end of the season! 

Okay, can you leave it go now?

Edited September 8, 2016 by Ravens4Real

[Ravens4Real]

19 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Yea, i dont understand it.

Its purple shades to say that returning Flacco, SSS, Suggs, Doom, Forsett, Pitta, upgrading the LT, depth at pass rush, huge upgrades at safety, depth at CB, adding young talents with huge breakout potential in Perriman and Dixon, getting an established speed merchant akin to Torrey with Wallace - all those clear and obvious additions/returns on last years 5-11 isnt justification to expect improvement...

But the Steelers not having Bell, losing Bryant, losing Beachum, losing their top talent at edge rush (maybe not top producer, but def top talent), depending on rookies in crucial areas (whereas we';ve added tons of rookie potential, but made veteran additions so we're not depending on it)... and not really adding anything in terms of proven veteran players... thats not regression.

And Cinci losing a brilliant offensive mind who made that team play the best they have, losing their entire receiver depth, counting on a rookie to be a capable 2 so Green doesnt have to be the passing game, expecting Dalton who aside from one stretch has never been anything better than average to repeat that performance sans the weapons and OC... who lost depth/talent in the secondary, and likewise made almost no veteran proven additions... and will be missing their dynamic TE and best LB to begin the season...

We're returning everything that made us a SB contender in '14 PLUS veteran and young talent everywhere to a roster that was beating the '15 SB champs before losing the most crucial defensive piece... while both the others are coming back missing huge parts of what made them successful last year.

We gain so much but temper those expectations. we're 5-11 until proven otherwise. theyve both lost big pieces and are counting on mainly rookie contributions to improve their weaknesses/losses but hey - they should improve watch out.

What!?!?

I feel like I'm arguing with two children. Where/when have I made my argument out to be a Steelers against Ravens??

I don't know why you continuously bring up all the Ravens are coming back like I have said that the Ravens can't hold the Steelers jockstrap. The argument is me simply stating that the Steelers still have a shot at the playoffs. You are writing them off like the won't win a game. 

Our problem, well recently, has not been with beating the Steelers. It has been with beating the rest of the NFL. We could sweep the Steelers every year and go 2-14. 

And yes, adding all of that POTENTIAL is nice. But every single team has just as many guys that have that POTENTIAL. I'm sorry I'm not anointing this team as Super Bowl champions. I know you and JoeyFLEX will sleep better tonight.

[JoeyFlex5]

Steelers draft bud Dupree first round last year, he doesn't have a great year, still has the highest upside, but apparently upside doesn't exist.... 

Fast forward...

He says they improved because of multiple high draft picks who have never shown anything in Sean Davis and artie burns... Wouldn't you say that's all upside? 

Then proceeds to call us idiots for thinking we Will improve because of recent draft picks. 

You're very confused sir.