Predicting the rankings in our division

[Space11jams]

First time posting a topic so hopefully it sparks good, clean dialogue. Where do you guys see baltimore ranked in our division/nfl? Now i'm seeing a lot of analyst as always rank us third in our division and about 20 compared to the nfl which is a slap in the face if you asked me. I honestly think that our division is a toss up between us, steelers and bengals only because of our gains and losses. We gained a lot of depth and good quality contributors in the offseason. Bengals lost their OC and some other quality players but i haven't seen any big gains other than draft. Steelers lost some guys as well and their def isn't the same anymore. They have that high powered offense but i don't believe that's enough to take the division. Now as far as us ranking in the league, i see us at 14 with tons of potential to improve. Now i find it disrespectful to put the bengals, chargers, chiefs and cowboys in front of us but that's just me. What do you guys think?

[usmccharles]

^{I don't see it as a slap in the face at all.  We were a 5 win team last year, we have a lot of unproven players.  I see us winning more than 5 games, but have no issue being placed 3rd in our division as the Steeleres offense is stacked and the Bengals have a very well balanced team.  I see the Bengals having a down year but right now I see us as a 7-9 team.  You said you see our division as a toss-up, so why is it a slap in the face that we finish 3rd?} 

Edited September 6, 2016 by usmccharles

[rmcjacket23]

If Pittsburgh is healthy for the most part, they should win the division. Their offense is balanced and loaded with talent, and they can exploit a lot of the weaknesses that teams like us have. Defensively they are average, but that's probably all they need to be.

I think the Bengals take a step backwards, but not too far back. They could still be a playoff team, but I think they lack identity on offense and I think losing Hue Jackson will hurt more than they realize. Lack of quality receiving options outside of Green I think will hurt them as well, and I don't think their linebacking core is very strong. I think teams will be able to run on them.

Browns will suck, but not quite as bad as people think they will. I think they manage to win 4-5 games. Actually think they have some talent offensively and may be able to put up some points, but their defense just isn't very good. By far the weakest of the division.

As for the Ravens... better than last year, but unknown how much better. My gut says in the 8-9 win range, probably not good enough for a playoff spot. Think we may still have some issues getting to the QB and our secondary is average to below average in this league. I fear we may also become too dependent on the passing game, and not be effective enough with the run.

 

[ellicottraven]

Pittsburgh based on all pundits in the NFL is the offensive juggernaut they'll prove very quickly they're not. In my judgment and honest opinion they're the 3rd best team in the division. Is my ranking of them tainted by absolute hatred and loathing? Perhaps, but still I am trying to be as objective as possible. I truly believe we are the best team in the division this year followed by the Bungles. Call me a homer, but I just think our depth at all positions makes us the best team overall. Think about it: Flacco has 2 great back field weapons in Forsett and Dixon (maybe West too). We have a solid WR corps with SSS and Aiken(great 3rd down and in the middle WRs), Wallace, Perriman and Moore who can stretch the field against any defense and a solid TE corps not ignoring a solid O-line! On defense is where we'll surprise the league in my opinion. I believe the rotation of Guy, Urban, Williams, Jernigan, Henry and Pierce is going to be as good as any in the league. A rotation of Suggs, Doom, Zadarius and Judon is going to create more than adequate pass rush and edge setting to prevent runs. If you can contain the back to the middle they aren't going to run much. Then lastly, our secondary is vastly improved imo. Weddle and Webb as interchangeable safeties, Jimmy, Wright, Powers, Young, Will Davis rotation will be pretty good in the passing game. Finally our special teams just got incredibly dangerous pairing our special teams unit with the best returner in the league (even at his age) Devin Hester! Our Kicker, holder and punter are amazing as well. 

So, now tell me why we aren't the best team in the division? I truly wish to believe we will be the best team and I assure you I'll be proven right.

[RavensPunkXVX]

40 minutes ago, Space11jams said:

First time posting a topic so hopefully it sparks good, clean dialogue. Where do you guys see baltimore ranked in our division/nfl? Now i'm seeing a lot of analyst as always rank us third in our division and about 20 compared to the nfl which is a slap in the face if you asked me. I honestly think that our division is a toss up between us, steelers and bengals only because of our gains and losses. We gained a lot of depth and good quality contributors in the offseason. Bengals lost their OC and some other quality players but i haven't seen any big gains other than draft. Steelers lost some guys as well and their def isn't the same anymore. They have that high powered offense but i don't believe that's enough to take the division. Now as far as us ranking in the league, i see us at 14 with tons of potential to improve. Now i find it disrespectful to put the bengals, chargers, chiefs and cowboys in front of us but that's just me. What do you guys think?

I'd say the Steelers will have a top five offense. They're at the top of the heap, realistically. The Bengals always have talent, but this year they lost a coordinator and two of their top WR's, so it's going to be an adjustment. I could see them struggling. The Browns will go as far as RGIII can take them. They have some talent on both sides of the ball, but they have never found the right coach/QB combo. Hue and Griffin? They still finish at #4. 

The Ravens are a question mark only because of all the injuries. We're destined to be at least a 9 win team. We were so close last year in a lot of games despite all of the injuries. If everyone returns and plays at least 85% to where they were before the injury, we're going to be in the hunt for a playoff spot. 

I actually think our ranking by the "experts" is pretty generous. Most of them anyways. If we're ranked around the 15-20 mark, that's pretty good. The Ravens do better being in that position anyways. We're a five win team from just a year ago and lost a lot of people to injury, so it's justified. It's all about health this year.

[RavensPunkXVX]

2 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

Pittsburgh based on all pundits in the NFL is the offensive juggernaut they'll prove very quickly they're not. In my judgment and honest opinion they're the 3rd best team in the division. Is my ranking of them tainted by absolute hatred and loathing? Perhaps, but still I am trying to be as objective as possible. I truly believe we are the best team in the division this year followed by the Bungles. Call me a homer, but I just think our depth at all positions makes us the best team overall. Think about it: Flacco has 2 great back field weapons in Forsett and Dixon (maybe West too). We have a solid WR corps with SSS and Aiken(great 3rd down and in the middle WRs), Wallace, Perriman and Moore who can stretch the field against any defense and a solid TE corps not ignoring a solid O-line! On defense is where we'll surprise the league in my opinion. I believe the rotation of Guy, Urban, Williams, Jernigan, Henry and Pierce is going to be as good as any in the league. A rotation of Suggs, Doom, Zadarius and Judon is going to create more than adequate pass rush and edge setting to prevent runs. If you can contain the back to the middle they aren't going to run much. Then lastly, our secondary is vastly improved imo. Weddle and Webb as interchangeable safeties, Jimmy, Wright, Powers, Young, Will Davis rotation will be pretty good in the passing game. Finally our special teams just got incredibly dangerous pairing our special teams unit with the best returner in the league (even at his age) Devin Hester! Our Kicker, holder and punter are amazing as well. 

So, now tell me why we aren't the best team in the division? I truly wish to believe we will be the best team and I assure you I'll be proven right.

We're not the best team because we're unproven. Flacco still has mediocre outings in regular season games. SSS, Suggs, Doom, Forsett, Perriman, Pitta are all coming back after injuries. Weddle is a new piece as well as Wallace. We have some good, young talent, that we've seen in preseason and in camp, but will they produce in the regular season? I think this team has all of the potential in the world, but they have to put it all together, and right now, we're not sure what they're capable of as a TEAM. 

[Moderator 3]

Predictions for all divisions can be found and/or added here: http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/69405-predictions/

 

Let's keep this one to the AFC North only so that we're not duplicating the other thread.

 

 

[ellicottraven]

5 hours ago, RavensPunkXVX said:

We're not the best team because we're unproven. Flacco still has mediocre outings in regular season games. SSS, Suggs, Doom, Forsett, Perriman, Pitta are all coming back after injuries. Weddle is a new piece as well as Wallace. We have some good, young talent, that we've seen in preseason and in camp, but will they produce in the regular season? I think this team has all of the potential in the world, but they have to put it all together, and right now, we're not sure what they're capable of as a TEAM. 

I don’t want to rationalize why we can’t be a good team by creating hurdles (real or implied). I would like to be driven by optimism of what can be. We can be the best team if the players perform to their potential. Are there variables out there that can make us not the best team in the division? Absolutely there are, but then again the same variable (not identical but similar) variable apply to every team in the division as well. So, while I understand your skepticism, I would like to ride my own optimism till proven otherwise.  Flacco has had mediocre outings in the regular season sure. But, his mediocre outings have still resulted in the team making the playoffs 6 of the 8 yrs he’s suited up. In fact, one should discount last year as he was injured and out of the game. I’ll take those odds of making the playoffs with his mediocre play every day vs. a stats monster that puts up big numbers but can’t get his team to the playoffs or once he gets them there, can’t deliver. What good are those stats to us? 

[Ravens4Real]

9 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

I don’t want to rationalize why we can’t be a good team by creating hurdles (real or implied). I would like to be driven by optimism of what can be. We can be the best team if the players perform to their potential. Are there variables out there that can make us not the best team in the division? Absolutely there are, but then again the same variable (not identical but similar) variable apply to every team in the division as well. So, while I understand your skepticism, I would like to ride my own optimism till proven otherwise.  Flacco has had mediocre outings in the regular season sure. But, his mediocre outings have still resulted in the team making the playoffs 6 of the 8 yrs he’s suited up. In fact, one should discount last year as he was injured and out of the game. I’ll take those odds of making the playoffs with his mediocre play every day vs. a stats monster that puts up big numbers but can’t get his team to the playoffs or once he gets them there, can’t deliver. What good are those stats to us? 

There are probably 15 teams in the NFL that could make the claim of being the best team if all of their players play to their fullest. 

But this is also the NFL and they are going up against people that are just as good as them. 

Like someone previously stated, until they prove it on the field, you can't say they are the best team in the division. We haven't beaten the Bengals in what feels like ages. 

[JoeyFlex5]

I find Pittsburgh vastly overrated. They have no pass rush at all, run defense last year they were top 10 but they also had the 6th least attempts probably due to teams trying to keep pace with their offense so that's a mystery, they lost their 2nd wr and I don't see any viable #2s, ladarius green on pup and nobody should bet on james, bell suspended and often injured, and still a questionable OL and Ben gets another year older. Their secondary may improve slightly if their reaches take massive leaps to make up a quality NFL secondary consisting of mostly rookies and 2nd year players(all of whom were reached for in the draft imo). I mean their top rusher is freaking jarvis Jones And they traded for Justin Gilbert. 

Have any of these analysts paid ANY attention to the Steelers? Or do they literally look at Ben and brown and anoint them a team of Destiny?

[ellicottraven]

41 minutes ago, Ravens4Real said:

There are probably 15 teams in the NFL that could make the claim of being the best team if all of their players play to their fullest. 

But this is also the NFL and they are going up against people that are just as good as them. 

Like someone previously stated, until they prove it on the field, you can't say they are the best team in the division. We haven't beaten the Bengals in what feels like ages. 

You know what? We haven't beaten the Bengals in ages. But, we'll beat them twice this year and the reign is going to begin where the Bengals take back their time valued position in the division - near bottom. As for 15 teams staking a claim as the best team, add the Ravens at the top of that list!

[ellicottraven]

27 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I find Pittsburgh vastly overrated. They have no pass rush at all, run defense last year they were top 10 but they also had the 6th least attempts probably due to teams trying to keep pace with their offense so that's a mystery, they lost their 2nd wr and I don't see any viable #2s, ladarius green on pup and nobody should bet on james, bell suspended and often injured, and still a questionable OL and Ben gets another year older. Their secondary may improve slightly if their reaches take massive leaps to make up a quality NFL secondary consisting of mostly rookies and 2nd year players(all of whom were reached for in the draft imo). I mean their top rusher is freaking jarvis Jones And they traded for Justin Gilbert. 

Have any of these analysts paid ANY attention to the Steelers? Or do they literally look at Ben and brown and anoint them a team of Destiny?

Thank you. I agree that Pittsburgh is vastly overrated. Its become almost fashionable to build up the Steelers in the off season by these pundits. I'm guessing that they increase their clicks by claiming it? I'm not sure but there is incredible bias for a few teams like the Steelers, Patriots and the terrible Cowboys.

[Ravens4Real]

54 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I find Pittsburgh vastly overrated. They have no pass rush at all, run defense last year they were top 10 but they also had the 6th least attempts probably due to teams trying to keep pace with their offense so that's a mystery, they lost their 2nd wr and I don't see any viable #2s, ladarius green on pup and nobody should bet on james, bell suspended and often injured, and still a questionable OL and Ben gets another year older. Their secondary may improve slightly if their reaches take massive leaps to make up a quality NFL secondary consisting of mostly rookies and 2nd year players(all of whom were reached for in the draft imo). I mean their top rusher is freaking jarvis Jones And they traded for Justin Gilbert. 

Have any of these analysts paid ANY attention to the Steelers? Or do they literally look at Ben and brown and anoint them a team of Destiny?

We can see that you have an obvious hatred for the Steelers.

They basically have the same team as last year but all of their young defensive guys are more seasoned and should be better. 

I don't understand how if they made the playoffs last year, that they couldn't do it again? Basically the only thing different will be Bryant being gone. Along with their defense getting better, I don't see how they could fall off that drastically.

Editing to add a couple additional thoughts.

I learned long ago to never doubt that the Steelers will not have a stable of WR's no matter what happens. I don't think there is another team that is as good in their scouting as the Steelers are. Wallace, Brown, E. Sanders, Bryant just to name a few. I believe we'd take any of them right now compared to who we have drafted. 

Edited September 7, 2016 by Ravens4Real

[Ravens4Real]

The Steelers also got extremely lucky with how their schedule ended up for this year. We finished 3rd and have to play two upcoming teams in the Raiders and Jaguars (two teams I could easily see us losing to) while they finished second and get to play a really hurt Chiefs team early on (they get Bell back for this game because he miraculously got his suspension reduced again) and the Colts, who Big Ben may have 50 touchdowns against in the past ten games. 

[allblackraven]

We'll battle with the Bengals for North title and we'll finally at least draw with them.

1] Ravens
2] Bengals
3] Steelers
4] Browns (just)

[ellicottraven]

8 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

We'll battle with the Bengals for North title and we'll finally at least draw with them.

1] Ravens
2] Bengals
3] Steelers
4] Browns (just)

Hey those were my rankings!!

[Daft Classic]

I think Bengals get the division again, but we finish 2nd. Everyone is always super hyped about Pittsburgh, but what have they really done to improve? If anything, they've lost more pieces than gained. I also think Cleveland has a better year than people give them credit for. RG3 to Gordon is gonna be nasty, even if the rest of the team is gonna struggle

1) Bengals 11-5

2) Ravens 10-6/9-7

3) Steelers 8-8/7-9

4) Cleveland 7-9/6-10

[JoeyFlex5]

44 minutes ago, Ravens4Real said:

We can see that you have an obvious hatred for the Steelers.

They basically have the same team as last year but all of their young defensive guys are more seasoned and should be better. 

I don't understand how if they made the playoffs last year, that they couldn't do it again? Basically the only thing different will be Bryant being gone. Along with their defense getting better, I don't see how they could fall off that drastically.

Editing to add a couple additional thoughts.

I learned long ago to never doubt that the Steelers will not have a stable of WR's no matter what happens. I don't think there is another team that is as good in their scouting as the Steelers are. Wallace, Brown, E. Sanders, Bryant just to name a few. I believe we'd take any of them right now compared to who we have drafted. 

Well I don't like the Steelers but then again I hate the patriots far more AND I'm picking them to represent the afc in the super bowl this year, and both of these things are well documented so obviously I don't have a problem putting feelings aside to make way for facts. 

The facts are this... They're a 1 dimensional team when they don't have their rb, who IS either suspended or injured for practically half of any given season, so with his suspension and bryants year long suspension, they're suddenly 1 dimensional and missing the 2nd option of their only effective means of offense. If you wanna buy into Sammie Coates or Markus Wheaton then be my guest but I'm not. If you wanna buy into jarvis Jones and Arthur moats then be my guest with James Harrison being the only remaining player with a lick of pass rush ability, if you think shazier has even a relatively healthy season for the first time ever then be my guest. You can think ross cockrell and William gay and Justin Gilbert are suddenly gonna be good but there is absolutely no reason for one to believe that, the truth is that the steelers have a qb who has beaten up worse than any one not named Tony romo, a shaky OL, a starting rb who carries the load in the seemingly rare occasion that he makes it on the field, ONE wr, a nice DL rotation granted its lacking a true quality NT, a solid ilb corps with half of it being often injured, and literally everything else is hot garbage from the starters to the bench. 

So yeah, steelers Have really improved by permanently losing one of their 3 offensive weapons and losing another for a portion of the season. They've really made strides on defense with their only real potential edge rusher Dupree going to ir with no solution to supplant the tiny bit of pass rush he provided them. and adding artie burns and Sean Davis and Justin gilbert was a real quality upgtade for their dumpster fire secondary, I'm sure they'll be much improved with such a ferocious pass rush in front of them.

[Ravens4Real]

24 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Well I don't like the Steelers but then again I hate the patriots far more AND I'm picking them to represent the afc in the super bowl this year, and both of these things are well documented so obviously I don't have a problem putting feelings aside to make way for facts. 

The facts are this... They're a 1 dimensional team when they don't have their rb, who IS either suspended or injured for practically half of any given season, so with his suspension and bryants year long suspension, they're suddenly 1 dimensional and missing the 2nd option of their only effective means of offense. If you wanna buy into Sammie Coates or Markus Wheaton then be my guest but I'm not. If you wanna buy into jarvis Jones and Arthur moats then be my guest with James Harrison being the only remaining player with a lick of pass rush ability, if you think shazier has even a relatively healthy season for the first time ever then be my guest. You can think ross cockrell and William gay and Justin Gilbert are suddenly gonna be good but there is absolutely no reason for one to believe that, the truth is that the steelers have a qb who has beaten up worse than any one not named Tony romo, a shaky OL, a starting rb who carries the load in the seemingly rare occasion that he makes it on the field, ONE wr, a nice DL rotation granted its lacking a true quality NT, a solid ilb corps with half of it being often injured, and literally everything else is hot garbage from the starters to the bench. 

So yeah, steelers Have really improved by permanently losing one of their 3 offensive weapons and losing another for a portion of the season. They've really made strides on defense with their only real potential edge rusher Dupree going to ir with no solution to supplant the tiny bit of pass rush he provided them. and adding artie burns and Sean Davis and Justin gilbert was a real quality upgtade for their dumpster fire secondary, I'm sure they'll be much improved with such a ferocious pass rush in front of them.

You are just spitting at falacies just because you have an inherent hatred for a team. I'll address your points as you stated them.

How are they one dimensional on offense? Deangelo Williams had a better year rushing than anyone on our team. He averaged 4.5 yards a carry. I'm not sure how that is being one dimensional. I'm sure every sane board member would agree with that point.

It doesn't matter if Bell is often injuried. When he isn't, he's simply one of the best backs in the league. He gives the Ravens the most fits out of anyone on their team. And chalking him up to an injury that MAY happen is naive. Outsiders can say that anyone of our main guys could get injuried and we'd be right back to 5-11. It works both ways. And like stated above, they shown last year that they didn't even need him to be one of the best offenses in the league.

I never said I'm buying into Coates or Wheaton. All I stated was that their team is probably the best at developing WR's. Along with one of the best QB's in the game and a no huddle high powered offense, Id bet that those guys produce. 

I no longer know why people bring up their offensive line. Yes, it was absolutely horrible a couple of seasons ago. But they have built through the draft and it is actually one of the better ones in the league. They run the ball well and Big Bens sacks have drastically come down. He gets hurt/hit because he will continue to run around like an idiot in the backfield. That shouldn't be on them.

To their defense, who I won't have much qualms about.

Shazier showed that if he's on the field, he's going to be a stud. Simply put. He was not injured for the last half and playoffs of the Steelers season and he made game changing plays against some of the best teams in the league. Same thing I stated before, you can't just go saying people will get injured as a guarantee. Steelers fans could easily say Flacco will tear his ACL again and we won't win a game. It just sounds stupid.

Outside of their pass rush, which is not very good on the outside, they have a very good front seven against the run and 2 DT's that are great at rushing the passer. Tuitt is going to be a stud. I wanted him a lot last year. Heyward is Heyward. They have a new NT, name escapes me. You stated that their ILB's are good. Also, mostly all of these guys are young as hell. It would be safe to assume that these guys are all still getting better.

To me, their season relies on their secondary. They have been drafting young guys back there and are obviously hoping that they have grown into the system and play up to their potential. Will they? I have no clue. It can't be much worse than the one CB that started for them last year (name???). But he was one of the worst in the league. 

So once again, on the defense, they should theoretically get better. Offense. They may take a slight step back because they don't have the home run threat in Bryant. 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by Ravens4Real

[allblackraven]

40 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Well I don't like the Steelers but then again I hate the patriots far more 

+35 

[AsianRice]

Whatever it is, the Bengals always have our numbers....I wish that's going to change soon.....Marvin Lewis has a lot to do with our losses too...

 

I say if we have 10 wins, it is major improvement with bunch of group of young players; especially on the offense.....

[redrum52]

We've finished 3rd the past 3 years.  We're right where we belong.

[stampedehero]

14 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

If Pittsburgh is healthy for the most part, they should win the division. Their offense is balanced and loaded with talent, and they can exploit a lot of the weaknesses that teams like us have. Defensively they are average, but that's probably all they need to be.

I think the Bengals take a step backwards, but not too far back. They could still be a playoff team, but I think they lack identity on offense and I think losing Hue Jackson will hurt more than they realize. Lack of quality receiving options outside of Green I think will hurt them as well, and I don't think their linebacking core is very strong. I think teams will be able to run on them.

Browns will suck, but not quite as bad as people think they will. I think they manage to win 4-5 games. Actually think they have some talent offensively and may be able to put up some points, but their defense just isn't very good. By far the weakest of the division.

As for the Ravens... better than last year, but unknown how much better. My gut says in the 8-9 win range, probably not good enough for a playoff spot. Think we may still have some issues getting to the QB and our secondary is average to below average in this league. I fear we may also become too dependent on the passing game, and not be effective enough with the run.

 

Your Perspective is objective and REAL.  We have to get the 10 win mark with less defensive mistakes at the beginning of the third Q and end of game.IMO

[stampedehero]

5 hours ago, Ravens4Real said:

You are just spitting at falacies just because you have an inherent hatred for a team. I'll address your points as you stated them.

How are they one dimensional on offense? Deangelo Williams had a better year rushing than anyone on our team. He averaged 4.5 yards a carry. I'm not sure how that is being one dimensional. I'm sure every sane board member would agree with that point.

It doesn't matter if Bell is often injuried. When he isn't, he's simply one of the best backs in the league. He gives the Ravens the most fits out of anyone on their team. And chalking him up to an injury that MAY happen is naive. Outsiders can say that anyone of our main guys could get injuried and we'd be right back to 5-11. It works both ways. And like stated above, they shown last year that they didn't even need him to be one of the best offenses in the league.

I never said I'm buying into Coates or Wheaton. All I stated was that their team is probably the best at developing WR's. Along with one of the best QB's in the game and a no huddle high powered offense, Id bet that those guys produce. 

I no longer know why people bring up their offensive line. Yes, it was absolutely horrible a couple of seasons ago. But they have built through the draft and it is actually one of the better ones in the league. They run the ball well and Big Bens sacks have drastically come down. He gets hurt/hit because he will continue to run around like an idiot in the backfield. That shouldn't be on them.

To their defense, who I won't have much qualms about.

Shazier showed that if he's on the field, he's going to be a stud. Simply put. He was not injured for the last half and playoffs of the Steelers season and he made game changing plays against some of the best teams in the league. Same thing I stated before, you can't just go saying people will get injured as a guarantee. Steelers fans could easily say Flacco will tear his ACL again and we won't win a game. It just sounds stupid.

Outside of their pass rush, which is not very good on the outside, they have a very good front seven against the run and 2 DT's that are great at rushing the passer. Tuitt is going to be a stud. I wanted him a lot last year. Heyward is Heyward. They have a new NT, name escapes me. You stated that their ILB's are good. Also, mostly all of these guys are young as hell. It would be safe to assume that these guys are all still getting better.

To me, their season relies on their secondary. They have been drafting young guys back there and are obviously hoping that they have grown into the system and play up to their potential. Will they? I have no clue. It can't be much worse than the one CB that started for them last year (name???). But he was one of the worst in the league. 

So once again, on the defense, they should theoretically get better. Offense. They may take a slight step back because they don't have the home run threat in Bryant. 

 

 

Their offense always matched and exceeded the Defensive capabilities. They won games and stunned the Bengals 18-16 due to that reasoning   With Bryant they had the major threat.  All you say makes sense 

[stampedehero]

5 hours ago, allblackraven said:

+35 

+When you have a chance to visit New England ask for Manhattan clam chowder and Maryland crab cakes  while you throw your Ravens key fob on the counter.  .  Dirty looks mean no tip  

[JoeyFlex5]

6 hours ago, Ravens4Real said:

You are just spitting at falacies just because you have an inherent hatred for a team. I'll address your points as you stated them.

How are they one dimensional on offense? Deangelo Williams had a better year rushing than anyone on our team. He averaged 4.5 yards a carry. I'm not sure how that is being one dimensional. I'm sure every sane board member would agree with that point.

It doesn't matter if Bell is often injuried. When he isn't, he's simply one of the best backs in the league. He gives the Ravens the most fits out of anyone on their team. And chalking him up to an injury that MAY happen is naive. Outsiders can say that anyone of our main guys could get injuried and we'd be right back to 5-11. It works both ways. And like stated above, they shown last year that they didn't even need him to be one of the best offenses in the league.

I never said I'm buying into Coates or Wheaton. All I stated was that their team is probably the best at developing WR's. Along with one of the best QB's in the game and a no huddle high powered offense, Id bet that those guys produce. 

I no longer know why people bring up their offensive line. Yes, it was absolutely horrible a couple of seasons ago. But they have built through the draft and it is actually one of the better ones in the league. They run the ball well and Big Bens sacks have drastically come down. He gets hurt/hit because he will continue to run around like an idiot in the backfield. That shouldn't be on them.

To their defense, who I won't have much qualms about.

Shazier showed that if he's on the field, he's going to be a stud. Simply put. He was not injured for the last half and playoffs of the Steelers season and he made game changing plays against some of the best teams in the league. Same thing I stated before, you can't just go saying people will get injured as a guarantee. Steelers fans could easily say Flacco will tear his ACL again and we won't win a game. It just sounds stupid.

Outside of their pass rush, which is not very good on the outside, they have a very good front seven against the run and 2 DT's that are great at rushing the passer. Tuitt is going to be a stud. I wanted him a lot last year. Heyward is Heyward. They have a new NT, name escapes me. You stated that their ILB's are good. Also, mostly all of these guys are young as hell. It would be safe to assume that these guys are all still getting better.

To me, their season relies on their secondary. They have been drafting young guys back there and are obviously hoping that they have grown into the system and play up to their potential. Will they? I have no clue. It can't be much worse than the one CB that started for them last year (name???). But he was one of the worst in the league. 

So once again, on the defense, they should theoretically get better. Offense. They may take a slight step back because they don't have the home run threat in Bryant. 

 

 

You too are overeating them. You're comparing them to probably the most injured team in the league saying d Williams was better than anyone on our team which is a fair argument I guess, but comparing the best season the Steelers have had in nearly a decade to our 2nd worst year in franchise history is pretty pointless, we had an anomaly due to injuries and bad chemistry, so any mediocre team looks good compared to the 2015 ravens.. 

Second, you named one player on defense, ONE, and even ADMITTED that he is often injured, he plays about as often as he sits. You said their ol has improved which is true but they are nothing special, I never called their line a dumpster fire which is where you seem to be, I said they were shaky, I'm giving a relatively accurate portrayal of every part of their team and you read it as if it's non discriminatory bashing of the team from top to bottom, so these "fallacies" wouldn't be fallacies to you if you had actually bothered to read it. 

You still haven't properly addressed the secondary, pass rush, and seem to forget that the one thing that players who miss games usually does is... Miss more games. Leveon bell has missed a lot of time due to injury and suspension, so yeah expect him to suddenly be a changed man. You also have yet to explain why they won't feel the loss of their 2nd wr, if the ravens lose a 2nd wr the sky is falling, the Bengals lose Marvin Jones and half the boards are calling for a massive downfall, but the Steelers lose theirs and you're on the next man up hype train.

They drafted young guys for the secondary, sure, they picked a 3rd round corner in the 2nd round and he had a lisfranc surgery in August, they picked a 2nd/3rd round long term project in artie burns in the first who missed most of TC and preseason and he desperately needs snaps considering he's a straight line sprinter with verticals but horrible man coverage skills, they took Sean Davis who could turn out solid but depending on a rookie safety is lolworthy.

Your entire argument is: "they have some young guys who are all a year more experienced".

[BmoreBird22]

With the Steelers, you have to hope for a weak first three games with no Le'Veon Bell. I know DeAngelo Williams played well last year, but expecting a 33 year old back with over 1200 carries to replicate that type of production is probably a bit too much to ask. Now, it wouldn't shock me to see him do well, but he's at the age where a fall off wouldn't be unusual. However, Pittsburgh, outside of Ryan Harris, has a really strong offensive line for Williams to run behind. I don't know why Joey is bashing it because Pouncey, Gilbert, and Decastro are all arguably top 5 at their position and Ramon Foster is a top 10 LG. The real question becomes whether or not they can all stay healthy and on the field together, but if they do, watch out. That's one good group. I will say this- if they get injured, Pittsburgh has no depth there and that could kill them.

I also think it will really hurt them to not have Martavis Bryant on their team because he was clearly their explosive threat that Markus Wheaton (who I really like) never developed into. Sammie Coates is also apparently falling hard in the pecking order as second year UDFA Eli Rogers looks to be the starting slot receiver with Wheaton kicking outside in three wide, which I don't see as the best fit for him. I know Bryant wasn't exactly the world's most refined receiver, but he could challenge you deep and commanded safety help over the top. That's going to add some stress to that passing game.

In addition to that, at TE, they really lack that go down the field, challenge the seam type with Green going on the PUP list. Apparently he's got ankle or concussion issues, but he won't be back until week 8, and even then, it's no guarantee. Some thought the concussion issues might cause him to retire. That right there is another down the field threat that the Steelers are going to miss because it's going to start crowding the short and intermediate throws.

Offensively, I think they'll be fine because if Bell can come back and stay healthy (he seems to get dinged up a fair amount, but doesn't miss tons of time), Ben is going to play like Ben and that offense will still be top 10. A lot of people are expecting the best offense in football and I'm not sure that'll happen this year. We'll see.

Defensively, they just completely lack a pass rush. They're two defensive ends are leading the way and I'm not sure that's something you want when you run the 3-4 (although, it has worked for the Jets). Not a single player on the Steelers last year recorded more than 7.0 sacks and they didn't grab a single 10.0 sack player. Tuitt and Hayward are gonna be the main sources of pass rush with little contribution from Moates, Harrison, and Jones. 

I think their front seven is pretty overrated, honestly. Lawrence Timmons, who I keep thinking is older than he is, can blitz well and looks like he can defend the run, but has two 20+ missed tackle campaigns back to back. He also gets pretty lost in coverage. With Shazier, the dude is just way too small. He avoids blockers like the plague because he can't shed them and doesn't have the ability to bring the pop to ball carriers. He was missing one tackle a game before injury. Speaking of injury, this guy gets dinged up with everything more than Bell and it's probably due to the fact that he's so small. He's got excellent athleticism and first step quickness, but he just has no instincts. Mosley is clearly well ahead of Shazier because Mosley just knows what's happening and makes it happen. 

In the secondary, Mike Mitchell and William Gay are pretty damn solid. They both played probably far better than anyone expected. Gay is actually one of the better slot corners in the league. Ross Cockrell also played extremely well last season. He played about 700 snaps and only started 7 games, which he probably didn't anticipate, but he played really well. I really liked him coming out of Duke and he's playing extremely well so far in the NFL. We'll see if he can do it over 16 games. Past those two, though, you've got Artie Burns and Justin Gilbert. Pick your poison because they're gonna get burned. 

I think Pittsburgh is a strong team, but I think they've just got some really glaring holes (health of the offensive line, pass rush, no real vertical threats) that are going to hurt the team too much.

[Ravens4Real]

56 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

You too are overeating them. You're comparing them to probably the most injured team in the league saying d Williams was better than anyone on our team which is a fair argument I guess, but comparing the best season the Steelers have had in nearly a decade to our 2nd worst year in franchise history is pretty pointless, we had an anomaly due to injuries and bad chemistry, so any mediocre team looks good compared to the 2015 ravens.. 

Second, you named one player on defense, ONE, and even ADMITTED that he is often injured, he plays about as often as he sits. You said their ol has improved which is true but they are nothing special, I never called their line a dumpster fire which is where you seem to be, I said they were shaky, I'm giving a relatively accurate portrayal of every part of their team and you read it as if it's non discriminatory bashing of the team from top to bottom, so these "fallacies" wouldn't be fallacies to you if you had actually bothered to read it. 

You still haven't properly addressed the secondary, pass rush, and seem to forget that the one thing that players who miss games usually does is... Miss more games. Leveon bell has missed a lot of time due to injury and suspension, so yeah expect him to suddenly be a changed man. You also have yet to explain why they won't feel the loss of their 2nd wr, if the ravens lose a 2nd wr the sky is falling, the Bengals lose Marvin Jones and half the boards are calling for a massive downfall, but the Steelers lose theirs and you're on the next man up hype train.

They drafted young guys for the secondary, sure, they picked a 3rd round corner in the 2nd round and he had a lisfranc surgery in August, they picked a 2nd/3rd round long term project in artie burns in the first who missed most of TC and preseason and he desperately needs snaps considering he's a straight line sprinter with verticals but horrible man coverage skills, they took Sean Davis who could turn out solid but depending on a rookie safety is lolworthy.

Your entire argument is: "they have some young guys who are all a year more experienced".

I'm pretty sure you are just struggling to pull my arguments out of long posts. I have answered every thing you are arguing but you continue to just post the same stuff over and over. So I'll keep it short for you.

I never compared the Steelers to the Ravens. I am simply stating why I believe the Steelers will be in the playoff hunt.

Like I said earlier, it doesn't matter if these guys you name are hurt. You state that they were hurt last year. Bell played 6 games and I don't know how many Shazier played. And guess what? They still made the playoffs. So are you arguing that they won't be a better team because these guys will probably play more games for them this year? Or are you already claiming that they will get injured and not play the whole year? I'm just not understanding your argument here.

Im not going into their defense again.

I have answered what they are going to do about their second WR. You just can't comprehend what I'm saying. They produce WR's like crazy over there. I'm sure they can find someone that is decent. They will feel the lose but it won't be a massive hit. The Bengals lost Jones and their 3rd receiver. Basically the only one that is back is Green. Also, Eifert is hurt. That's why the Bengals are projected to go down a little. The Steelers have only lost one guy and are grooming 3 others. 

In regards to their draft picks you mention, I'll let the dust settle where it may. I can't argue something that I have no clue the outcome. They could turn out well or end up horrible for them. But since you seem like a player evaluator expert, these young guys might as well quit football now before they embarrass themselves and family.

[JoeyFlex5]

I perfectly comprehend what you're saying. You're saying that essentially the same team minus their 2nd wr and minus their top pass rusher are an automatic lock to win the division and that all the pundits are right, and you base this in the fact that they develop wrs well as really your only selling point. I hear what you're saying, it just doesn't make for a very compelling argument.

 

Edit. Also, one of your very first arguments was that deangelo Williams had a better YPC than anyone on our team last year, that's the exact comparison I was arguing.

Edited September 7, 2016 by JoeyFlex5

[Ravens4Real]

13 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I perfectly comprehend what you're saying. You're saying that essentially the same team minus their 2nd wr and minus their top pass rusher are an automatic lock to win the division and that all the pundits are right, and you base this in the fact that they develop wrs well as really your only selling point. I hear what you're saying, it just doesn't make for a very compelling argument.

 

Edit. Also, one of your very first arguments was that deangelo Williams had a better YPC than anyone on our team last year, that's the exact comparison I was arguing.

First, find where I said they would win the division. They didn't win the division last year. I said they would make the playoffs again. Once again, I don't think you are comprehending what I'm typing.

And who in the heck is their top pass rusher that they are missing? Dupree?! He tied for 6th last year on their team in sacks. Not sure where you are getting that he is their best pass rusher. I'd give that to one of their DT in Tuitt or Heyward. 

Again, stop spewing the same nonsense over and over again.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Ravens4Real