[News] Late For Work 9/6: Keep Calm And Trust Ozzie Newsome

[jboy19]

16 minutes ago, 20306cab said:

Whoever's closest wins. I'm pretty sure it was me. I just don't understand the Hester deal. Why pay an old, 33, injured, one trick pony up to $4 mil. And cut a younger, 25, considerably cheaper, (300,000?) guy who lead the team in PS receiving. Who can also play WR, be in the mix to return Ps and KOs and be a strong ST performer. Must be something we don't know about.

I don't really get it either. I think Butler's issue was that as a receiver he was still buried on the depth chart and didn't offer much value as a returner, or at least wasn't considered to. It seemed like the PR job was put up for grabs between Camp and Reynolds, but Camp was struggling with injuries and Reynolds wasn't ready. My guess is that Camp and Reynolds probably compete with someone else next offseason for the PR job, but being disfavored to a 2017 draft pick/free agent that has a 3 or 4 year contract. 

[January J]

10 minutes ago, Ravenous_Ravens said:

10 minutes ago, Ravenous_Ravens said:

I do not change my stance for the obvious reason Elam to IR was really a wasted designation. They cut Brooks because he was not going to contribute the way they needed and Elam was not playing that much better. Now Ozzie is basically counting on Elam recovering before the end of the year, be able to contribute and elevate his play. Sounds far fetched to me. Elam is only on contract to the end of this season. Coming back from injury and not losing any step or ability etc is difficult when he wasn't really at his potential to begin with.

Yes it was a nice little slight of hand, but what did he really gain? Carl Davis presumath

 

 

This was brilliant anyway you look at it. All this did was give us more insurance for later in the season. Whichever position sees the majority of injuries we just use the return designation accordingly. Elam was making a strong push for playing time and I was actually excited about seeing what he could do this year. He seems to have cleaned up the tackling issues and the game has slowed down for him. I'd probably rather have him out there than Kendrick lewis. But yeah were not counting on anything- we dont have to reactivate him and if he doesn't recover in time we just shut him down for the year or release him and pick up somebody else on the market. But based on the move it seems that the recovery time they have on Elam is between 6-10 weeks. We've got a slew of options since oz  basically found a way to have 57 players on the roster ( Boyle and waller just by chance )and  now we have insurance at the safety position- the d line and at tight end. Genius.

[rmcjacket23]

23 minutes ago, 20306cab said:

Whoever's closest wins. I'm pretty sure it was me. I just don't understand the Hester deal. Why pay an old, 33, injured, one trick pony up to $4 mil. And cut a younger, 25, considerably cheaper, (300,000?) guy who lead the team in PS receiving. Who can also play WR, be in the mix to return Ps and KOs and be a strong ST performer. Must be something we don't know about.

Butler wasn't in the running for returner duty.

This wasn't a trade of Butler for Hester. This was a trade of Campanaro for Hester.

Butler being cut has more to do with us not wanting to carry that many WRs on the roster and valuing depth at another position more.

All of this is moot for me, because even if Butler made the 53, he would be a gameday inactive every week until at least 1-2 WRs got hurt. 

[jboy19]

15 minutes ago, Ravenous_Ravens said:

Ozzie has been taken to the cleaners on contracts. Did you forget Ngata's contract? Webb's contract? Pitta's contract? J Smith's contract? Only recently has he really learned and made more team reasonable contracts, with better injury terms. A lot of those contracts ensured the team was too tight capwise when it was badly needed and as a result saw some key players leave for greener pastures.

Saying not getting burn on rookie contracts is like being excited you didn't fall and wipe out learning to ride your bike, WITH TRAINIGN WHEELS. The new CBA dictates what players are to be paid for the majority of players drafted, so they basically just follow the rules.

I think that every team either has Cap struggles or is on the verge of having Cap struggles. The Ravens tend to draft better than most NFL teams and tend to have to make hard choices with new contracts (Resigning Smith/Yanda led to the inability to sign KO/McPhee, etc. sorry if those aren't good examples). All the teams that are big spenders are going to be in bad positions pretty soon. For example, the Raiders are going to have Cap trouble when it comes time to resign Mack and Carr while the Cap is being eaten by the Sean Smith/Bruce Irvin/KO contracts. 

I don't really think that there are any "bad contracts" worth complaining about. Eugene Monroe's contract ended up being a disaster, but at the time, he was paid less than top tier LTs, while he had been playing extremely well. Same with Pitta to an extent. It was only really injuries that set those two back, which is more of a luck thing. You can't really make a contract to a player in their prime that says "If you get injured, you make 75% less money" because then no reasonable player would sign it. 

[rmcjacket23]

5 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

I think that every team either has Cap struggles or is on the verge of having Cap struggles. The Ravens tend to draft better than most NFL teams and tend to have to make hard choices with new contracts (Resigning Smith/Yanda led to the inability to sign KO/McPhee, etc. sorry if those aren't good examples). All the teams that are big spenders are going to be in bad positions pretty soon. For example, the Raiders are going to have Cap trouble when it comes time to resign Mack and Carr while the Cap is being eaten by the Sean Smith/Bruce Irvin/KO contracts. 

I don't really think that there are any "bad contracts" worth complaining about. Eugene Monroe's contract ended up being a disaster, but at the time, he was paid less than top tier LTs, while he had been playing extremely well. Same with Pitta to an extent. It was only really injuries that set those two back, which is more of a luck thing. You can't really make a contract to a player in their prime that says "If you get injured, you make 75% less money" because then no reasonable player would sign it. 

Raiders are probably a bad example. They've handed out some big deals, but a lot of them have very little guaranteed money because they went to "questionable" players. If you look at their 2017 cap situation, they can move on from a lot of guys and pick up a lot of cap savings by doing so.

Additionally, they only have 41 players under contract for 2017, and they'd have over $40M to spend currently before making any cuts.

They won't have any issues keeping Carr or Mack when the time comes.

[OUravensfan]

That is a great point about outperforming rookie deals and the team getting huge, natural bargains from them. One big reason why the Flacco is overpaid talk got so infuriating, never mind the market dynamics of franchise QBs.

[fusuymada]

Have trust in Ozzie, and I used to be the first to post that, but after a 5 - 11 season, and 2 of the last 3 out of the playoffs and a combined losing record in the last three seasons. We traded comp picks for vet free agents which we never do but we were scrambling for players why, because we weren't prepared as a result of poor draft picks or bad contracts. Keeping Elam is another one of those questionable decisions, and draft picks, especially when you risk your #1 running back to do it. Ooooh I'm so impressed Ozzie made a back door deal with Forsett, but had another team come knocking with a briefcase of money and Forsett took it, no one would have known it was a back door deal. Do you think we would have been told it was a back door deal had it fell through, no... So we took the chance to save Elam when pretty much everyone agrees Brookes played better but to save face we didn't cut the first found blunder we cut Brookes and Brown, two second round blunders.

Perhaps we will do well this year, perhaps not, and some will be in here screaming they were right and others we won't hear from, but the fact that so many fans and pundits are now questioning, draft decisions, roster moves, and every other action by the front office that used to be the unquestioned leader in the NFL indicates that people are now doubting the Ravens front office. The fact that Ozzie has resorted to hiding players by getting them to agree to the subterfuge, and by getting unsigned players to hold off signing until you get your ducks in a row, at some point in time will blow up in your face. It didn't this time and good for us, but when did our once great front office have to resort to smoke and mirrors to be able to sign the players we need. I am not anti Raven or anti-front office, I am pointing out that fans and experts alike have started to doubt the wizard of Oz which prior to a couple years ago just didn't happen. In Oz we trust just doesn't carry the weight with some of us that it used to.

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, OUravensfan said:

That is a great point about outperforming rookie deals and the team getting huge, natural bargains from them. One big reason why the Flacco is overpaid talk got so infuriating, never mind the market dynamics of franchise QBs.

Of course. It doesn't benefit their argument to consider the big picture. 

When its all said and done, we signed Haloti Ngata to a 9 year, $65.15M contract. That's an average of $7.2M per year.

Not a single person can rationally complain about that deal.

Right now, Flacco is in the middle of a 14 year, $210.8M contract, paying him an average of $15.0M a year. 

Not a single person can rationally complain about that deal.

Rinse repeat for most of these contracts.

[rmcjacket23]

6 minutes ago, fusuymada said:

Have trust in Ozzie, and I used to be the first to post that, but after a 5 - 11 season, and 2 of the last 3 out of the playoffs and a combined losing record in the last three seasons. We traded comp picks for vet free agents which we never do but we were scrambling for players why, because we weren't prepared as a result of poor draft picks or bad contracts. Keeping Elam is another one of those questionable decisions, and draft picks, especially when you risk your #1 running back to do it. Ooooh I'm so impressed Ozzie made a back door deal with Forsett, but had another team come knocking with a briefcase of money and Forsett took it, no one would have known it was a back door deal. Do you think we would have been told it was a back door deal had it fell through, no... So we took the chance to save Elam when pretty much everyone agrees Brookes played better but to save face we didn't cut the first found blunder we cut Brookes and Brown, two second round blunders.

Perhaps we will do well this year, perhaps not, and some will be in here screaming they were right and others we won't hear from, but the fact that so many fans and pundits are now questioning, draft decisions, roster moves, and every other action by the front office that used to be the unquestioned leader in the NFL indicates that people are now doubting the Ravens front office. The fact that Ozzie has resorted to hiding players by getting them to agree to the subterfuge, and by getting unsigned players to hold off signing until you get your ducks in a row, at some point in time will blow up in your face. It didn't this time and good for us, but when did our once great front office have to resort to smoke and mirrors to be able to sign the players we need. I am not anti Raven or anti-front office, I am pointing out that fans and experts alike have started to doubt the wizard of Oz which prior to a couple years ago just didn't happen. In Oz we trust just doesn't carry the weight with some of us that it used to.

At no point in time in history will anybody say that a team was decimated by the loss of Justin Forsett.

Good player, not a great player. Pretty good chance he's a complementary back by mid-season who sees a large decrease in workload, and frankly, the team will be better off for it.

If he had walked away for more money (which of course he wouldn't because there isn't a big bag of cash waiting for guys like him on the open market), we would have just looked at our roster and said "o well, we will be fine". If there's one thing fans should have learned about this league by now, its that the ability to run the ball effectively oftentimes has a lot less to do with the guy actually running the ball. I think Forsett himself is a pretty good indication of this being true.

The reason a concept like this works is because we DON'T do this to extremely valuable players. We don't place Joe Flacco on waivers with a handshake agreement. We don't place Dumervil or any of our other "core" players on waivers with a handshake agreement.

Edited September 6, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[sami]

This Trust Ozzie stuff is tantamount to saying he never makes mistakes. He has made plenty of late with the Ravens high draft picks. The only one he hasn't owned up to yet is Elam. Elam stinks, just like the recently departed Arthur Brown, and Terrence Brooks. Does anyone not remember the infamous Sergio Kindle? It is ok to be wrong.....occasionally, but to be wrong with your first draft pick is a disaster that should not happen. God only knows what possessed him to take Elam. One has a lot more credibility when pointing out both good and bad than one does by simply going Rah Rah to every move. Ozzie has done some great work, but he is human, and has flubbed some important choices as well. A truthful article would note that.

Kindle would have been a beast if he hadn't fallen down the stairs and cracked his melon.

[sami]

  2 hours ago, jboy19 said:

Guessing nobody won the Pick the Roster contest then

Whoever's closest wins. I'm pretty sure it was me. I just don't understand the Hester deal. Why pay an old, 33, injured, one trick pony up to $4 mil. And cut a younger, 25, considerably cheaper, (300,000?) guy who lead the team in PS receiving. Who can also play WR, be in the mix to return Ps and KOs and be a strong ST performer. Must be something we don't know about.

Hes not getting paid exactly 4 million. That's with all the incentives which there are a lot of.

[Steve32]

Oz has more than made up with some bad first round picks with gems in the 3rd,4th,5th rounds over the years......One thing Oz hasn't been terribly burned with, that other teams have is giving players contracts that really aren't worthy....Everyone knows the draft is a gamble, but players like Kindle, AB,Elam might have been misses, but they never took us to the bank.....And where we have picked in the first and 2nd rounds over the years which is closer to the bottom of the draft than middle or top isn't like picking in the top 10, like this year, and it looks like Stanley will be as advertised.....Oz is still the man in my book.....

Oz has made some less than great choices. I'll give you Arthur Brown.

But some take longer for the light bulb to go off, like Paul Kruger.
Fans only remember his one good year, not the 3 years prior where is was often inactive for the game. That's where Matt Elam is now.

Sergio Kindle was an unfortunate situation. They drafted him for his pass rush skills. However, getting drunk and falling down stairs and breaking his skull open was unfortunate and can't be blamed on Ozzie. He took a chance on him and it didn't work out.

[OzzieBisciotti]

I was wrong about Ozzie this time- I'm glad he didn't shortchange Forsett- Sorry, Oz...

[billiejean]

  2 hours ago, Purple Dawg 96 said:

Didn't ruffle any feathers over here I took it all in stride! Got a laugh hearing my squeeler buddies get happy and sad about Justin Lol! I knew it was business and not personal and like I said before if Justin wants a Ring he will be back! "The Perfect Season"!

Just ask your Steelers buds, how Bud Dupree and Gholston are doing...:)

Jones perhaps? Gholston was drafted by the Jets

[ellicottraven]

Failed a physical? Ouchi!

[CaliRavenFan]

My question is by keeping Elam on the roster and him leaving at the end of the season get us a high comp pick? Thats the only thing I can think of, us cutting him now will give us nothing.

[rmcjacket23]

5 minutes ago, CaliRavenFan said:

My question is by keeping Elam on the roster and him leaving at the end of the season get us a high comp pick? Thats the only thing I can think of, us cutting him now will give us nothing.

1. He goes on IR, so he doesn't take up a roster spot currently.

2. Will depend on IF he actually leaves (as in we don't resign him) and what kind of contract he gets elsewhere. Generally speaking, if he doesn't sign a large contract elsewhere, the comp pick we would get for him won't be very significant.

[FloridalovesRavens]

Have trust in Ozzie, and I used to be the first to post that, but after a 5 - 11 season, and 2 of the last 3 out of the playoffs and a combined losing record in the last three seasons. We traded comp picks for vet free agents which we never do but we were scrambling for players why, because we weren't prepared as a result of poor draft picks or bad contracts. Keeping Elam is another one of those questionable decisions, and draft picks, especially when you risk your #1 running back to do it. Ooooh I'm so impressed Ozzie made a back door deal with Forsett, but had another team come knocking with a briefcase of money and Forsett took it, no one would have known it was a back door deal. Do you think we would have been told it was a back door deal had it fell through, no... So we took the chance to save Elam when pretty much everyone agrees Brookes played better but to save face we didn't cut the first found blunder we cut Brookes and Brown, two second round blunders.

Perhaps we will do well this year, perhaps not, and some will be in here screaming they were right and others we won't hear from, but the fact that so many fans and pundits are now questioning, draft decisions, roster moves, and every other action by the front office that used to be the unquestioned leader in the NFL indicates that people are now doubting the Ravens front office. The fact that Ozzie has resorted to hiding players by getting them to agree to the subterfuge, and by getting unsigned players to hold off signing until you get your ducks in a row, at some point in time will blow up in your face. It didn't this time and good for us, but when did our once great front office have to resort to smoke and mirrors to be able to sign the players we need. I am not anti Raven or anti-front office, I am pointing out that fans and experts alike have started to doubt the wizard of Oz which prior to a couple years ago just didn't happen. In Oz we trust just doesn't carry the weight with some of us that it used to.

Sounds like sour grapes on your part. Guess you would rather have him fail instead.

[FloridalovesRavens]

This Trust Ozzie stuff is tantamount to saying he never makes mistakes. He has made plenty of late with the Ravens high draft picks. The only one he hasn't owned up to yet is Elam. Elam stinks, just like the recently departed Arthur Brown, and Terrence Brooks. Does anyone not remember the infamous Sergio Kindle? It is ok to be wrong.....occasionally, but to be wrong with your first draft pick is a disaster that should not happen. God only knows what possessed him to take Elam. One has a lot more credibility when pointing out both good and bad than one does by simply going Rah Rah to every move. Ozzie has done some great work, but he is human, and has flubbed some important choices as well. A truthful article would note that.

Never heard anyone even come close to saying he never makes mistakes. I plan to rah rah this particular move lol.

[eze17]

  2 hours ago, 20306cab said:

Whoever's closest wins. I'm pretty sure it was me. I just don't understand the Hester deal. Why pay an old, 33, injured, one trick pony up to $4 mil. And cut a younger, 25, considerably cheaper, (300,000?) guy who lead the team in PS receiving. Who can also play WR, be in the mix to return Ps and KOs and be a strong ST performer. Must be something we don't know about.

Butler wasn't in the running for returner duty.

This wasn't a trade of Butler for Hester. This was a trade of Campanaro for Hester.

Butler being cut has more to do with us not wanting to carry that many WRs on the roster and valuing depth at another position more.

All of this is moot for me, because even if Butler made the 53, he would be a gameday inactive every week until at least 1-2 WRs got hurt. 

Very good points. When there was discussion of keeping seven WR's, I figured Butler and/or Moore would be inactive on game days anyways, which didn't make sense to keeping that many WR's. As it is, with the signing of Hester, Moore may still be listed as inactive for some games. It's a shame, because Butler did everything asked of him, but it came down to simple numbers. And let's not forget that if we do have a serious injury at WR we can still sign Butler off Tampa's practice squad and add him to our roster if need be.

[rmcjacket23]

12 minutes ago, eze17 said:

Very good points. When there was discussion of keeping seven WR's, I figured Butler and/or Moore would be inactive on game days anyways, which didn't make sense to keeping that many WR's. As it is, with the signing of Hester, Moore may still be listed as inactive for some games. It's a shame, because Butler did everything asked of him, but it came down to simple numbers. And let's not forget that if we do have a serious injury at WR we can still sign Butler off Tampa's practice squad and add him to our roster if need be.

The reality is it probably would have taken more than one injury at WR for him to be active on gameday.

We know that SSS, Wallace, Aiken, Perriman and Moore were all locks to make the roster. Adding a kick returner, regardless of whether that was going to be Hester or even Camp or Reynolds, that's a sixth WR, who is 100% going to be active on gameday.

That means, at BEST, Butler was the 7th WR. There is no scenario where we keep 7 WRs active on gameday, and it might have been a stretch to even have 6 active. Even with 2 in-game injuries at WR with 5 active, we'd still have three left.

I just don't see where Jeremy Butler supporters think they would see him playing on Sundays.

[metalraven]

Not going to lie. Reading rmcjacket23's comments/replies to other poster is more fun than the actual articles. I always look for the ridiculous comments with the inevitable blast of logic that follows. One of the few "fans" that takes the "fanatic" out of fan, and replaces it with reason. ;)

[RRRRRavens]

This Trust Ozzie stuff is tantamount to saying he never makes mistakes. He has made plenty of late with the Ravens high draft picks. The only one he hasn't owned up to yet is Elam. Elam stinks, just like the recently departed Arthur Brown, and Terrence Brooks. Does anyone not remember the infamous Sergio Kindle? It is ok to be wrong.....occasionally, but to be wrong with your first draft pick is a disaster that should not happen. God only knows what possessed him to take Elam. One has a lot more credibility when pointing out both good and bad than one does by simply going Rah Rah to every move. Ozzie has done some great work, but he is human, and has flubbed some important choices as well. A truthful article would note that.

For us fans I think the "trust Ozzie" motto means we look a little silly challenging his decisions when we don't come close to knowing what he knows about the current player environment in the NFL, including our own team and players. So we "trust Ozzie" at the moment because there really is no other rational choice. If, over the years, he has failed to bring us winning football then we have a case. But he has - and we don't.

[dirtybird66]

sounds like they got rid of a good qb. and brought in a scrubb from chicago,oh well,i guess they say they know what their doing,now we have 3 qb's and two throw picks and get sacked alot,great move!

[RRRRRavens]

  5 hours ago, jboy19 said:

Guessing nobody won the Pick the Roster contest then

Ozzie did ;)

And maybe Justin???

[steelcityraven]

Not going to lie. Reading rmcjacket23's comments/replies to other poster is more fun than the actual articles. I always look for the ridiculous comments with the inevitable blast of logic that follows. One of the few "fans" that takes the "fanatic" out of fan, and replaces it with reason. ;)

Metalraven.... that is the issue in itself. mcjacket makes some very good points and his interaction on this site is valuable and even desired but you said it yourself... mcjackets focus seems to be at times on critiquing other guests on the site more then stating his own opinion on the articles. This at times comes across as condescending and even at times a little pompous. I do appreciate his reasoning and his football IQ and I value his opinion on many topics but the approach of focusing on the fans more than the articles can cause his logic and reasoning to be missed from time to time. Hope this is not taken by mcjacket as a personal attack on him...just offering my viewpoint bc metalraven offered his about the approach of mcjacket. Just my opinion!

[steelcityraven]

Have to appreciate Ben Watson, even if you don't agree with him... He is thoughtful and intelligent in his addressing a sensitive issue and respect shines through when he speaks. Not matter which side of the Kapernick issue you stand on... you have to appreciate when someone like ben Watson speaks respectfully and intelligently on a topic!

[steelcityraven]

Tunsil starting at G should not be considered a down grade. Unless of course we are willing to say that Jonathan Ogden wasn't all that we hoped for when we drafted him bc he started at G before taking the helm at his T perch. Tunsil is playing well at Miami and it may take a few years before we know who the better pick was... but after a small sample of play... (and considering the potential character issues of Tunsil) I am more and more excited about our pick. Not bc Tunsil has looked bad but on the contrary... Stanley has looked that good (and BTW he is a high character guy)!

[steelcityraven]

sounds like they got rid of a good qb. and brought in a scrubb from chicago,oh well,i guess they say they know what their doing,now we have 3 qb's and two throw picks and get sacked alot,great move!

Remember that this is not Johnsons first rodeo either. I think he looked great through the preseason.... but I am super excited to see how Joe does with the same OC - with some weapons - with a solid OL - with a running game that is multi-talented. Hope Josh Johnson does well but remember that he is still behind Eli and Nassib in NY also.

[RRRRRavens]

Have to appreciate Ben Watson, even if you don't agree with him... He is thoughtful and intelligent in his addressing a sensitive issue and respect shines through when he speaks. Not matter which side of the Kapernick issue you stand on... you have to appreciate when someone like ben Watson speaks respectfully and intelligently on a topic!

Totally agree!! He's a very well-spoken and thoughtful man. I can see him in the pulpit or politics some day.