Front Office Discussion

[kjbmore]

Did a bit of search couldnt find anything. I know the front office discussion can merge into a lot of threads - hopefully this could be a place to discuss in detail - without hijacking other threads. 

I think this stage of the season is an appropriate time to discuss or at least voice opinions on what the Front Office is doing, direction we are taking, be it in regards to draft picks, roster moves, free agent signings.

Given not a single competitive game has been played nobody's really right or wrong - see what the results and players show us when we look back on the season. 

Edited September 4, 2016 by kjbmore

[JoeyFlex5]

whats the discussion? looks to me like theyve done a good job retooling a team that was blasted with injuries to important big money players for years. we slipped up, overpaid the wrong guys for the sake of chemistry, they got old and got injured or fell off, guys like ngata, pitta, ray rice, are all examples of this. 

they knew that we desperately needed to add speed to our entire team, because speed is the name of the game these days, so we drafted breshad perriman last year and signed mike wallace for offense and converted waller to TE for a big time speed and height threat up the seam which is a big deal in todays nfl and its looking like a mildly successful experiment, we got a speedy big play RB who does incredible things with the ball in space, and we also drafted chris moore who plays very well in the deep and intermediate, also drafted a freaking stonewall LT who is ideal for stopping the influx of speed rushers these days and he has been absolutely lights out, and it was a ballsy move to take him over the other LT prospect who was basically called the GOAT from the moment he took the field for ole miss last year, but he isnt even playing LT and is struggling at guard, so we nailed that... and this is only on offense. 

on defense, we stopped depending on guys who were never gonna pan out. we didnt overpay an injury prone player in mcphee, and it left us with a lot of flexibility, we miss his pass rush(but chicago misses it at times also huehue), we swung and missed on kendrick lewis, will hill played himself, and we had busts in brown, brooks, and elam, but we stopped fooling around and converted webb to safety which in all honesty was probably always his most natural position, we stuck by jimmy through the injuries ad hes been looking good again, weve yet to hit on a CB2 but at least we look deeper there than we have in years, we finally have a good safety tandem which i think has always been a bigger problem than our cbs, we nailed a UDFA  in zach orr who looks like a stud, we drafted a speedy nasty hardnosed LB in correa who will likely play all over the field and make an impact in a million ways once the game slows down for him, we drafted what looks like a pass rush machine in judon and we took some risks on some high ceiling raw guys like kaufusi who unfortunately got hurt, and also got a slot corner with great ball skills and feistiness in tavon young. we had a youth movement and it will either bounce the team back into contention or it will hurt us for years, but something had to be done and the FO made theur moves, and they look like good moves as it is right now. 

thats my take on the FO. im far from thinking less of them, in about 2 seasons if these young guys dont pan out, then ill change my mind.

[kjbmore]

It's all discussion - any opinions or thoughts on the FO - let em rip, what a forums for.

Personally I'm not too concerned or unhappy with the roster cuts, don't think anybody we cut will truly be detrimental to our season - trust the FO to make the right decisions with what we have assembled.

A little concerned with what has been assembled in the first instance - ie draft picks and free agents brought in

Concerned we haven't addressed the second CB position and frankly after the Arrington move, little sceptical on Powers and I'm reserving judgement on Webbs safety experiment, thought we may have targeted somebody in the draft or free agency

nor overly concerned about the KR / PR situation but it just shows a lack of awareness or thought that we could be a week out from the season and we have no clue who'll be returning - if we lose a game due to turnovers in that area - I would place a lot of that blame on the FO & coaching staff for leaving that decision to the last minute and not having somebody who had at least gotten a few solid looks in the preseason

Not a huge fan of the top end of this draft thought we could've gone after a corner and safety in 2 and 3 but that's just my opinion - tell will tell

looking forward to seeing what moves Oz can make with the cash we've freed up - do like the position we are in, in that regard - should allow us to aggressively address any holes but thats obviously never our style but at least we have some wiggle room

[Runnin Raven]

Without getting too much into specifics, it feels like there has been a seismic shift in philosophy.  Before training camp Harbaugh talked about a wide open competition and the guys who step up will make it, regardless of past history.  I forget the exact words, but I like the concept.  Butler's release doesn't really jive with that philosophy, but its not exactly like he was a potential pro bowl WR either.  I think they're shooting for identifying real explosive game changers, cause last year didn't cut it obviously.

[ERey]

After the Super Bowl win and team purge of so many veterans, I'm still amazed they nearly made the playoffs in 2013 and went pretty far in 2014. Of course the wheels finally fell off in 2015.

I don't know what more they could have done with the offense. It's to bad Eugene Monroe didn't work out, but they seem to have found a pretty solid LT in Ronnie Stanley. The receiving core on paper is the deepest we've ever had with 3 legit vertical threats. The TE position has been the deepest on the team. Unfortunately Ben Watson is out for the season, but if Maxx Williams and Dennis Pitta can both stay healthy they'll be just fine this year. I have some concern with the running backs. It's a pretty young group.

The defense is the question and a lot of it depends on Suggs and Dumerville. If both can stay healthy and play at relatively high level than I think the D will be OK. Even with the amount of picks they put into DE with Correa, Kaufusi, Z Smith and Matt Judon, it remains to be seen if it's enough (or the right picks I should say) should Suggs or Dumerville go down. The CB position after Jimmy Smith is still a major question marks. They upgraded the safety position, but not with youth. Their recent misses on Elam and Brooks hurt. The D-line appears to be pretty solid. The middle linebacker position is a high draft pick and UDFA. Again, their miss on Arthur Brown hurts here. So, quite honestly I'm not sure what to expect from the D. Seems to me if the pass rush is solid then they'll be fine, otherwise there's to many possible holes elsewhere.

Special teams. Tucker and Koch. The best in the league. As far as kick returner, they have yet to address this position. They won Super Bowls 35 and 47 with two dynamic return guys in Jermaine Lewis and Jacoby Jones, so we all know the importance of the position.

Overall, given their draft position and what they had available I give them a grade of B-. They addressed some need and left others possibly wide open. I still think this is a playoff team that can do some damage. 12-4.

Edited September 4, 2016 by ERey

[ALPHA]

Theyre learning from past mistakes which is important, take the draft for example, this year they made durability a priority, the exceptions were Kaufusi and Dixon and surprise surprise they cant stay healthy. 

Harbaugh still beats the drum for discipline, outside of the OTA fiasco hes never made a fool of himself or apologized for comments (unlike Rex or brother Jim) 

[January J]

 

On ‎9‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 1:27 AM, JoeyFlex5 said:

whats the discussion? looks to me like theyve done a good job retooling a team that was blasted with injuries to important big money players for years. we slipped up, overpaid the wrong guys for the sake of chemistry, they got old and got injured or fell off, guys like ngata, pitta, ray rice, are all examples of this. 

they knew that we desperately needed to add speed to our entire team, because speed is the name of the game these days, so we drafted breshad perriman last year and signed mike wallace for offense and converted waller to TE for a big time speed and height threat up the seam which is a big deal in todays nfl and its looking like a mildly successful experiment, we got a speedy big play RB who does incredible things with the ball in space, and we also drafted chris moore who plays very well in the deep and intermediate, also drafted a freaking stonewall LT who is ideal for stopping the influx of speed rushers these days and he has been absolutely lights out, and it was a ballsy move to take him over the other LT prospect who was basically called the GOAT from the moment he took the field for ole miss last year, but he isnt even playing LT and is struggling at guard, so we nailed that... and this is only on offense. 

on defense, we stopped depending on guys who were never gonna pan out. we didnt overpay an injury prone player in mcphee, and it left us with a lot of flexibility, we miss his pass rush(but chicago misses it at times also huehue), we swung and missed on kendrick lewis, will hill played himself, and we had busts in brown, brooks, and elam, but we stopped fooling around and converted webb to safety which in all honesty was probably always his most natural position, we stuck by jimmy through the injuries ad hes been looking good again, weve yet to hit on a CB2 but at least we look deeper there than we have in years, we finally have a good safety tandem which i think has always been a bigger problem than our cbs, we nailed a UDFA  in zach orr who looks like a stud, we drafted a speedy nasty hardnosed LB in correa who will likely play all over the field and make an impact in a million ways once the game slows down for him, we drafted what looks like a pass rush machine in judon and we took some risks on some high ceiling raw guys like kaufusi who unfortunately got hurt, and also got a slot corner with great ball skills and feistiness in tavon young. we had a youth movement and it will either bounce the team back into contention or it will hurt us for years, but something had to be done and the FO made theur moves, and they look like good moves as it is right now. 

thats my take on the FO. im far from thinking less of them, in about 2 seasons if these young guys dont pan out, then ill change my mind.

Well said. That's the way I see it.

[cobrajet]

I think this discussion could really jump off in a few days. I was surprised by some of the cuts we made yesterday but we have cap space and I know Ozzie is looking at other teams cuts, he always does. This 53 man roster is still going to change before we play the Bills. I am excited about that because I think we may just get even better before week 1. Right now, I am just chilling out because I think Ozzie may have something in mind.

[GrimCoconut]

Some of their moves are tough to swallow but that's how it is at times.  Some good players and depth guys were cut. The hardest cut for me was Jeremy Butler. No question about that award. Even him I understand but he did nothing but make plays on offense. He's the only cut that surprised me. I was surprised by us cutting Brooks, too, but I think that's more because he was a third round pick 3 years ago and those aren't the guys we usually cut.  Perhaps we're learning from past mistakes of keeping guys longer than we should just because of draft position. Seattle doesn't hold onto draft picks if they aren't getting better and maybe we're going the same route and cutting losses early. 

On Forsett, he's surprising but it sounds like he'll be back so it's not that surprising. Letting McPhee and KO looked bad but maybe these were the right choices and we learned from the Pitta deal 

[Mad Puppy]

as a generalization I like what the front office has done cutting down to 53.

getting rid of dead weight and admitting when a mistake was made is the first step towards recovery.

T. Brooks, A. Brown, KLM were long overdue.

I'm concerned they haven't given up on Campanaro, but at least he isn't "on" the roster at the moment.

 

That said a swing and miss in the 2nd round this year is an indication that Ozzie is getting conservative. 

[Ravensuperfan1]

signing Hester! Ozzie does it again

[baltimorefan328]

6 hours ago, ERey said:

After the Super Bowl win and team purge of so many veterans, I'm still amazed they nearly made the playoffs in 2013 and went pretty far in 2014. Of course the wheels finally fell off in 2015.

I think this is even understated. The Ravens had TWO 14-point leads IN Foxboro with a secondary full of guys off the street. New England beat the Colts like 45-10 or something. I think the Ravens could have beaten the Colts had they beat New England, Flacco was playing great again. The Ravens weren't too far removed from making two super bowls in 3 years. I agree the front office has had a few struggles since 2012 but its amazing how close they were to getting back to the super bowl just 2 years later.

[rmcjacket23]

I don't think Ravens fans have earned the right to question the FO at this point.

[Moderator 3]

2 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I don't think Ravens fans have earned the right to question the FO at this point.

I think we have the right to question but not to incessantly bash.

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

I think we have the right to question but not to incessantly bash.

I mean technically I supposed you have the right to question anything, but the real question is... should you? Can you look at yourself in the mirror and think that you're worthy of questioning people who clearly know more than us?

I mean what if I went around just pointing out all the inaccurate predictions, demands, etc. that fans made... do we have any idea who long of a list that would add up to?

I mean I was told literally yesterday that guys like Ochi, Reynolds and Butler were too valuable to be on a PS and that teams would immediately sign them to the active roster when they were released. 24 hours later, NONE of them do. And these are the people who want to question the knowledge of others who have done so much more?

Its like being a Walmart greeter and walking into surgery and instructing a Neurosurgeon what to do. Could the Neurosurgeon screw something up and be wrong? Sure. Is the Walmart greeter in a position to determine when he does do something wrong? Of course not.

That's where this thread is heading.

[Moderator 3]

19 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

 

That's where this thread is heading.

Or you could be wrong and this thread could end up being a FO appreciation thread. :-)

[Edgar]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I mean technically I supposed you have the right to question anything, but the real question is... should you? Can you look at yourself in the mirror and think that you're worthy of questioning people who clearly know more than us?

I mean what if I went around just pointing out all the inaccurate predictions, demands, etc. that fans made... do we have any idea who long of a list that would add up to?

I mean I was told literally yesterday that guys like Ochi, Reynolds and Butler were too valuable to be on a PS and that teams would immediately sign them to the active roster when they were released. 24 hours later, NONE of them do. And these are the people who want to question the knowledge of others who have done so much more?

Its like being a Walmart greeter and walking into surgery and instructing a Neurosurgeon what to do. Could the Neurosurgeon screw something up and be wrong? Sure. Is the Walmart greeter in a position to determine when he does do something wrong? Of course not.

That's where this thread is heading.

Try asking a neurosurgeon in what aisle one could find a chain saw file. Those guys are useless.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

The FO is not responsible for execution, just getting the right players on the field to improve Red zone scoring, 7 vs 3's, and to get guys on D to help us get off the field on 3rd downs. 

I like the draft class and the fa additions. I really like the addition of Leslie Frazier.

IMHO, these off season additions Better help Pees improve this defense, because if not, I want a new Defensive philosophy, other than bend and break. 

[kjbmore]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I mean technically I supposed you have the right to question anything, but the real question is... should you? Can you look at yourself in the mirror and think that you're worthy of questioning people who clearly know more than us?

I mean what if I went around just pointing out all the inaccurate predictions, demands, etc. that fans made... do we have any idea who long of a list that would add up to?

I mean I was told literally yesterday that guys like Ochi, Reynolds and Butler were too valuable to be on a PS and that teams would immediately sign them to the active roster when they were released. 24 hours later, NONE of them do. And these are the people who want to question the knowledge of others who have done so much more?

Its like being a Walmart greeter and walking into surgery and instructing a Neurosurgeon what to do. Could the Neurosurgeon screw something up and be wrong? Sure. Is the Walmart greeter in a position to determine when he does do something wrong? Of course not.

That's where this thread is heading.

as PAYING members / supporters of a team - pretty sure we can question or discuss whatever we want - at the end of the day the fans are the people spending their hard earned on tickets, merchandise watching games on tv - so that everybody from front office to players is getting paid. think this is how it works or did i miss something?

interesting analogy re brain surgery except we're talking about SPORT, we see it with our owns eyes every sunday and even other days too, some people might have even played a little, some others might even coach - therefore I think people may be able to form decision on what they've SEEN, nobody says its right but it might have merit, clearly people have opinions and like to voice them, how dare they question decisions made by other humans for a football team?

its sport mate, you know a game, we play for fun and watch for fun, chat about because we enjoy to talk about it, have a couple cold ones and chill out buddy

if you dont want to discuss or as you say question the FO or read about it - dont read the thread - i put it over here with a nice big title - just to give you a little heads up about what it might be about it, also might keep some of the content out of other threads

[Ravenslifer]

On 9/4/2016 at 1:27 AM, JoeyFlex5 said:

weve yet to hit on a CB2 but at least we look deeper there than we have in years, 

Regarding this, it's not like we've gone out and squandered a ton of assets on the position recently.  The last top 100 pick we spent on a CB was Jimmy in 2011, although Young was 104 this year, and I'm pretty sure the only guy of note we've signed recently was Arrington.   I could find fault with the FO for not taking another corner early recently, but I can't fault the FO for late round draft picks not becoming impact players - after all, there is a reason they were late round draft picks in the first place.

[Ravenslifer]

On 9/4/2016 at 10:18 AM, Mad Puppy said:

 

That said a swing and miss in the 2nd round this year is an indication that Ozzie is getting conservative. 

I'm curious as to how you can classify a rookie who has taken exactly 0 regular season snaps as anything at this point.

[BmoreBird22]

On 9/4/2016 at 3:23 PM, rmcjacket23 said:

I mean technically I supposed you have the right to question anything, but the real question is... should you? Can you look at yourself in the mirror and think that you're worthy of questioning people who clearly know more than us?

The great thing is that this is a board filled with forums. Are any of us truly qualified to talk on the matter of football at the professional level? Eh, probably not, but we do. 

I mean, if we didn't have discussions, this board would be irrelevant.

[kiwi_raven]

I love our front office, on the surface it seems so much more transparent then a few other organizations, I love the way our owner acts and the way he knows when to sit back and let others make a decision.

I believe we have the best trio in football when it comes to the FO.

Hell I even like the media department the ravens have, although some times I want smack Quan upside the back of his head.

All in all our FO has made some excellent decisions as well as some really bad ones, no one can complain that our FO is terrible, although you are more then welcome to join the Fire Dean Pees bandwagon after our first loss.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

31 minutes ago, kiwi_raven said:

 

All in all our FO has made some excellent decisions as well as some really bad ones, no one can complain that our FO is terrible, although you are more then welcome to join the Fire Dean Pees bandwagon after our first loss.

Per Profootballrankings.com, our defensive/offensive stats in 2015 were:

☆Passing TD's allowed- 30, Int's we got- 6, gave up 6.4 yds per pass, while we got 21 td's and 21 int's on opponents and got 6.1 yds per pass.

☆Rushing TD's allowed were 10, at 4yds per rush, while we got 8 TD's and 3.9 yds per rush on opponents.

☆We were penalized 122 times for 1153 yds, opponents were penalized 103 times for 748 yds. 

Is all this a result of Suggs being gone? Or could it be defensive philosophy? What did the FO do? They brought in Leslie Frazier, Weddle, Powers, moved Webb to safety, and added picks. What I want to see, is do the added players help Pees philosophy? Soft zone scheme Pees runs commonly referred to as "Bend but dont break" , has gotten us 1 superbowl, however that was with Ray and Ed still here. I personally do not like the scheme, not the coach. I want to see a more aggressive press man, more pressure on qb. The questions needing to be answered are, can the new blood step up? Does Doom and or Siz still have anything left in the tank? Are the pieces we have on the defensive chess board being used correctly? Time will tell, but regardless, it will be fun watching. Did not like letting Brooks go though.

[balfan23]

2 minutes ago, OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL said:

Per Profootballrankings.com, our defensive/offensive stats in 2015 were:

☆Passing TD's allowed- 30, Int's we got- 6, gave up 6.4 yds per pass, while we got 21 td's and 21 int's on opponents and got 6.1 yds per pass.

☆Rushing TD's allowed were 10, at 4yds per rush, while we got 8 TD's and 3.9 yds per rush on opponents.

☆We were penalized 122 times for 1153 yds, opponents were penalized 103 times for 748 yds. 

Is all this a result of Suggs being gone? Or could it be defensive philosophy? What did the FO do? They brought in Leslie Frazier, Weddle, Powers, moved Webb to safety, and added picks. What I want to see, is do the added players help Pees philosophy? Soft zone scheme Pees runs commonly referred to as "Bend but dont break" , has gotten us 1 superbowl, however that was with Ray and Ed still here. I personally do not like the scheme, not the coach. I want to see a more aggressive press man, more pressure on qb. The questions needing to be answered are, can the new blood step up? Does Doom and or Siz still have anything left in the tank? Are the pieces we have on the defensive chess board being used correctly? Time will tell, but regardless, it will be fun watching. Did not like letting Brooks go though.

I'm with you on this. Our secondary was weak not only in 2015, but in 2014 as well. We survived in 2014 because we were able to get pressure from Suggs, Doom and McPhee ... but only to the point until we faced an offense that knew how to get the ball out quick (NE). Last year, with Suggs out, McPhee gone and Doom being overused, we weren't able to generate pressure and were too afraid to expose our weak secondary by blitzing.

Along with the additions you mention, I want to see if the concept that Jimmy was off his game last year because of his lingering injury is real. If he doesn't play as a shutdown corner this year, I think the secondary still has its struggles, despite the additions. Still, I think we have to have faith that they can get the job done and stop using personnel as an excuse to play timid defense.

[usmccharles]

I am happy with what our FO does.  Some draft picks i dont like but that doesnt mean im right.  Taking KC in the second, i wouldnt have, but i also didnt even know who he was...but unlike some people, im willing to wait and let a player develop then judge the pick, you cant judge a draft pick before they even take a snap.  One complaint that i do have is when we didnt address Torrey leaving until he was already gone.  I still trust Oz, if this draft class is a complete bust then we will have something to talk about, but that is at least 2 years from now. 

[OUravensfan]

On September 4, 2016 at 2:16 PM, baltimorefan328 said:

I think this is even understated. The Ravens had TWO 14-point leads IN Foxboro with a secondary full of guys off the street. New England beat the Colts like 45-10 or something. I think the Ravens could have beaten the Colts had they beat New England, Flacco was playing great again. The Ravens weren't too far removed from making two super bowls in 3 years. I agree the front office has had a few struggles since 2012 but its amazing how close they were to getting back to the super bowl just 2 years later.

I try not to think about it, it's very sickening. Top it off they had to use deflated footballs, a trick play and deceptive substitution patterns that were made illegal the following season.

[ellicottraven]

This thread will make sense at the half way point of the season to look at how the draft picks have performed or are performing. Not just this year's but last year's as well. We can evaluate the veterans as well in terms of their ability to play at a high level.Right now, we are just optimistic and hopeful that Ozzie and gang have assembled the best 53 man roster possible. Now, let the coaches coach and the players play and we can play judge and jury!

[JEEPercreepermd]

2 hours ago, OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL said:

Per Profootballrankings.com, our defensive/offensive stats in 2015 were:

☆Passing TD's allowed- 30, Int's we got- 6, gave up 6.4 yds per pass, while we got 21 td's and 21 int's on opponents and got 6.1 yds per pass.

☆Rushing TD's allowed were 10, at 4yds per rush, while we got 8 TD's and 3.9 yds per rush on opponents.

☆We were penalized 122 times for 1153 yds, opponents were penalized 103 times for 748 yds. 

Is all this a result of Suggs being gone? Or could it be defensive philosophy? What did the FO do? They brought in Leslie Frazier, Weddle, Powers, moved Webb to safety, and added picks. What I want to see, is do the added players help Pees philosophy? Soft zone scheme Pees runs commonly referred to as "Bend but dont break" , has gotten us 1 superbowl, however that was with Ray and Ed still here. I personally do not like the scheme, not the coach. I want to see a more aggressive press man, more pressure on qb. The questions needing to be answered are, can the new blood step up? Does Doom and or Siz still have anything left in the tank? Are the pieces we have on the defensive chess board being used correctly? Time will tell, but regardless, it will be fun watching. Did not like letting Brooks go though.

I understand what you're saying. We've all grown accustomed to seeing a Ravens defense that is ferocious. Problem is that we've had a big deficiency of talent or production in the secondary..due to just bad play, injuries, inexperienced players starting etc.. 

 I'd also like to see the defense be more aggressive, but I'd also like to see less blown coverages when we are in a good defense and missed tackles that lead to game changing plays. Remember a short lived Ravens DC by the name of Greg Mattison? You couldn't get more vanilla than Mattisons defense. Yet they still were a top 10 defense, because the players on the field executed. 

I think it's half a dozen of one and 6 of the other...Pees needs to change some things, put his players in a better position to succeed..but there has also got to be far better execution on the field. There's no excuse for the blown coverages, missed tackles and just bad fundamentals that have actually cost us big games. 

In that 2012 run, the Ravens didn't hurt themselves with those types of mistakes...on the other hand, the 2014 team made those mistakes in a game that they should have won in NE that ended our season. 

 

At the end of the day, I'd be fine with a defense that just lines up and plays well, tackles well, and doesn't blow coverages like we've been doing. The exotic blitzes and all of the Tom foolery don't work if you can't beat the guy in front of you. ..but peeps does need to be better. Please note that I said that Lmao..not trying to be an apologist.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

2 hours ago, balfan23 said:

 and stop using personnel as an excuse to play timid defense.

You nailed it. Pees runs a "TIMID Defense". Pagano, Rex, others did not. In all fairness, we had Thumpers like Ray, Pollard, etc, who would give pause to would be receivers crossing the middle. Who are the 2016 enforcers/Intimidators in all 3 lines of D, and will they be used correctly? SometimesI worry when certain packages come on the field, because they run the same schemes each time, thus cluing in the better qb's how to beat us, as you pointed out, we rarely disguise what we do any more, if we blitz, all the guys get to the line early, and stay there.