Official cut down to 75

[rmw10]

17 minutes ago, Daft Classic said:

Ochi is really the only one with a chance right?

I'd say Pierce is the one with the best chance.  Ochi and Onwuasor with an outside chance, and Skura likely to the PS.

[rmcjacket23]

20 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Pierce.

Onwuasor might have an outside chance. Neither him or Ochi would clear waivers, so if we don't give them roster spot, the only way to keep them would be IR.

Why wouldn't they clear waivers again?

Not saying you are wrong, but I've never understood this notion of UDFAs being so valuable that teams always want to poach them off waivers. 

[rmcjacket23]

6 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I'd say Pierce is the one with the best chance.  Ochi and Onwuasor with an outside chance, and Skura likely to the PS.

My official guess is none of them making the 53 man.

[allblackraven]

6 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Why wouldn't they clear waivers again?

Not saying you are wrong, but I've never understood this notion of UDFAs being so valuable that teams always want to poach them off waivers. 

Because they are good enough to get a chance elsewhere. 

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Because they are good enough to get a chance elsewhere. 

I think people overvalued them. They weren't good enough to get drafted and half the board (if not most) had zero idea who Onwausor even was

[rmcjacket23]

9 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Because they are good enough to get a chance elsewhere. 

But what's that based on?

Keep in mind a few things:

1. 32 NFL teams had the opportunity to DRAFT these guys, and they ALL passed on them. Its not like Ochi is out there dominating in preseason games for all to see... he's barely played.

2. 31 other NFL teams had the opportunity to sign these players at UDFAs, and the Ravens were the one that did. I doubt every single one of those teams actually had interest, and my guess is only a handful did. As such, the market for them is likely much smaller than people think.

3. If they don't clear waivers, they have to go on the active roster of whatever team claims them. So they would have to be good enough to make the 53 man roster of another team.

The latter I just don't see happening. I don't see what has changed since the draft that makes Ochi all of the sudden more desirable to another team that he would actually make the active roster.

I'm sure plenty of teams would like to have him on their PS, but they don't have that luxury at this time.

Edited August 30, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[GrimCoconut]

51 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Pierce.

Onwuasor might have an outside chance. Neither him or Ochi would clear waivers, so if we don't give them roster spot, the only way to keep them would be IR.

I think both Onwuasor and Ochi could very well clear waivers. I wouldn't be surprised if they were claimed, but I think both most likely make it past waivers, personally. I think Pierce is the only one likely to make the team, and even him I'm not sure on but I feel confident enough to say he does.

31 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

My official guess is none of them making the 53 man.

I would agree, but I think Pierce has really done a nice job and I think he will give the team a moment of pause. It's a 50/50 with him for me as I could see it go either way, but I think he may very well get the chance to make this team and I have him as my UDFA this year to make this squad.

38 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I'd say Pierce is the one with the best chance.  Ochi and Onwuasor with an outside chance, and Skura likely to the PS.

I agree. I think Pierce has done very well for himself, and I think what helps him is he provides value as a NT reserve, but I also think he has shown promise as an interior pass rusher and that's impressive. His fate could be tied to the final game and whether he really continues to stand out or not. I suspect he will get a lot of reps, and I wouldn't be surprised if we keep him. He could just as easily be cut and destined for the PS, though. It's a tough call for me. 

[rmcjacket23]

32 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I think both Onwuasor and Ochi could very well clear waivers. I wouldn't be surprised if they were claimed, but I think both most likely make it past waivers, personally. I think Pierce is the only one likely to make the team, and even him I'm not sure on but I feel confident enough to say he does.

I would agree, but I think Pierce has really done a nice job and I think he will give the team a moment of pause. It's a 50/50 with him for me as I could see it go either way, but I think he may very well get the chance to make this team and I have him as my UDFA this year to make this squad.

I agree. I think Pierce has done very well for himself, and I think what helps him is he provides value as a NT reserve, but I also think he has shown promise as an interior pass rusher and that's impressive. His fate could be tied to the final game and whether he really continues to stand out or not. I suspect he will get a lot of reps, and I wouldn't be surprised if we keep him. He could just as easily be cut and destined for the PS, though. It's a tough call for me. 

Trying to find a way Pierce makes it, but he's at a crowded position with a lot of comparable depth. Can't figure out who gets cut so he makes it.

I think he's the perfect PS candidate for his rookie season. He's a guy who with another year of development could easily evolve into a Lawrence Guy type player or even better.

Edited August 30, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[rmw10]

34 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I think both Onwuasor and Ochi could very well clear waivers. I wouldn't be surprised if they were claimed, but I think both most likely make it past waivers, personally. I think Pierce is the only one likely to make the team, and even him I'm not sure on but I feel confident enough to say he does.

I would agree, but I think Pierce has really done a nice job and I think he will give the team a moment of pause. It's a 50/50 with him for me as I could see it go either way, but I think he may very well get the chance to make this team and I have him as my UDFA this year to make this squad.

I agree. I think Pierce has done very well for himself, and I think what helps him is he provides value as a NT reserve, but I also think he has shown promise as an interior pass rusher and that's impressive. His fate could be tied to the final game and whether he really continues to stand out or not. I suspect he will get a lot of reps, and I wouldn't be surprised if we keep him. He could just as easily be cut and destined for the PS, though. It's a tough call for me. 

I think Ochi is in danger of leaving solely because he's a pass rusher, that although he went undrafted, drew a ton of interest afterwards.  On the other side of that, I can see him clearing too.  He's 50/50 for me - one of the rare UDFAs to earn that distinction.

I see 0 problems with Onwuasor passing.  I think he's a prime candidate to end up there and get a midseason call up when we could use a STer.

Pierce reminds me a lot of Ishmaa'ily Kitchen from a few years back.  Kitchen did really well, but just didn't have a spot on the team.  He didn't do much with the Browns but had a decent stint.  I think Pierce could be a similar situation if we don't keep him.  There's value in those true NT types.  We don't even have a true backup NT ourselves, but the numbers might not be there for him to make the team here.  Like Ochi, I think it's entirely possible he could make it through, but Pierce has actually given teams some good tape to watch.

[GrimCoconut]

49 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Trying to find a way Pierce makes it, but he's at a crowded position with a lot of comparable depth. Can't figure out who gets cut so he makes it.

I think he's the perfect PS candidate for his rookie season. He's a guy who with another year of development could easily evolve into a Lawrence Guy type player or even better.

He is at a crowded group, but I think him making it hinges on how many DL we keep. If we keep 6, he's likely gone, yep. I can't see him making it if we keep only 6. He would have to be the 7th DL, and I think it's possible he earns that due to his play. You're right that he would be a perfect PS stash, though. He's one of those rare guys I think could be scooped up by another team because he's put out tape that looks good and has done pretty well for himself, in all honesty. 

43 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I think Ochi is in danger of leaving solely because he's a pass rusher, that although he went undrafted, drew a ton of interest afterwards.  On the other side of that, I can see him clearing too.  He's 50/50 for me - one of the rare UDFAs to earn that distinction.

I see 0 problems with Onwuasor passing.  I think he's a prime candidate to end up there and get a midseason call up when we could use a STer.

Pierce reminds me a lot of Ishmaa'ily Kitchen from a few years back.  Kitchen did really well, but just didn't have a spot on the team.  He didn't do much with the Browns but had a decent stint.  I think Pierce could be a similar situation if we don't keep him.  There's value in those true NT types.  We don't even have a true backup NT ourselves, but the numbers might not be there for him to make the team here.  Like Ochi, I think it's entirely possible he could make it through, but Pierce has actually given teams some good tape to watch.

Ochi could maybe get picked up, and he did have interest, but he hasn't done much and hasn't made an impact and has very little tape expect a sack late in the game against fringe NFL players. Those guys typically don't go anywhere, and while I think he could perhaps buck that trend, I think he could very well clear waivers. I definitely agree with you on Onwuasor. He hasn't killed it in preseason like others, so I admit I'll be surprised if he's claimed. I think he's certainly bound for the PS. 

I'm glad you brought up Kitchen, as I see the same exact thing with Pierce. He [Kitchen] is the same guy I thought of when I watched Pierce out there, but I think Pierce is actually better than Kitchen. I think Pierce would very likely get picked up off the waiver wire if he's cut, so I think he will give the team a lot of room to pause and think about cutting him. I remember reading somewhere, can't recall where, that we hoped to put Kitchen on the PS when he was claimed. I don't think Kitchen did as well as Pierce has this preseason, though, and that's why I think he could really carve himself a role here in Baltimore. As you said, we don't have a true NT back-up, but I think Pierce offers more than just being a back-up since he has a little pass rush to him. 

[rmw10]

41 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

He is at a crowded group, but I think him making it hinges on how many DL we keep. If we keep 6, he's likely gone, yep. I can't see him making it if we keep only 6. He would have to be the 7th DL, and I think it's possible he earns that due to his play. You're right that he would be a perfect PS stash, though. He's one of those rare guys I think could be scooped up by another team because he's put out tape that looks good and has done pretty well for himself, in all honesty. 

Ochi could maybe get picked up, and he did have interest, but he hasn't done much and hasn't made an impact and has very little tape expect a sack late in the game against fringe NFL players. Those guys typically don't go anywhere, and while I think he could perhaps buck that trend, I think he could very well clear waivers. I definitely agree with you on Onwuasor. He hasn't killed it in preseason like others, so I admit I'll be surprised if he's claimed. I think he's certainly bound for the PS. 

I'm glad you brought up Kitchen, as I see the same exact thing with Pierce. He [Kitchen] is the same guy I thought of when I watched Pierce out there, but I think Pierce is actually better than Kitchen. I think Pierce would very likely get picked up off the waiver wire if he's cut, so I think he will give the team a lot of room to pause and think about cutting him. I remember reading somewhere, can't recall where, that we hoped to put Kitchen on the PS when he was claimed. I don't think Kitchen did as well as Pierce has this preseason, though, and that's why I think he could really carve himself a role here in Baltimore. As you said, we don't have a true NT back-up, but I think Pierce offers more than just being a back-up since he has a little pass rush to him. 

My thinking on Ochi is that teams know that he doesn't have much tape because we don't want him to.  It's always hard to give an unknown a roster spot, but there are teams out there that have those open spots to take the chances on some potential like that.  I'm not resigned to the fact that he absolutely will be claimed or absolutely will pass through waivers, but I definitely think there's a possibility that someone could take that chance.

[Wildabeast88]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Why wouldn't they clear waivers again?

Not saying you are wrong, but I've never understood this notion of UDFAs being so valuable that teams always want to poach them off waivers. 

Ochi was projected as a 4th round pick and there is a premium on pass rushers

[GrimCoconut]

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

My thinking on Ochi is that teams know that he doesn't have much tape because we don't want him to.  It's always hard to give an unknown a roster spot, but there are teams out there that have those open spots to take the chances on some potential like that.  I'm not resigned to the fact that he absolutely will be claimed or absolutely will pass through waivers, but I definitely think there's a possibility that someone could take that chance.

Oh yeah for sure.  There's always that team that'll take a chance and he may impress in this next game. 

[KBoum]

I don't see how some teams would claim them... Others teams only have 53 players too... they really need to have a big NEED to claim them to be ready week 1 with no practice time 

[rmw10]

41 minutes ago, KBoum said:

I don't see how some teams would claim them... Others teams only have 53 players too... they really need to have a big NEED to claim them to be ready week 1 with no practice time 

I wouldn't say need.  There are some bad teams out there that know they probably aren't going anywhere this year.  If a guy becomes available that they really wanted but just couldn't manage to sign, this could be their opportunity.  I think the overall statement that guys won't clear through waivers is completely overblown, but there are also guys that are claimed every year.

[GrimCoconut]

2 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I wouldn't say need.  There are some bad teams out there that know they probably aren't going anywhere this year.  If a guy becomes available that they really wanted but just couldn't manage to sign, this could be their opportunity.  I think the overall statement that guys won't clear through waivers is completely overblown, but there are also guys that are claimed every year.

Like Kitchen and now CB Williams cut by Cleveland. It happens all the time 

[BmoreBird22]

3 hours ago, Wildabeast88 said:

Ochi was projected as a 4th round pick and there is a premium on pass rushers

He was projected as a fourth rounder by the media. Clearly teams didn't see it that way because in 25X picks, no team took a chance. 

I don't think he'll be scooped up.

[atomicfront]

If a player isn't good enough to be on our 53 players what do we care if he clears waivers or not? If he makes it to the practice squad another team could grab him at anytime.  John Simon cleared waivers and we still lost him off our practice squad.  Being on a team's practice squad is pretty meaningless. The players are available to any team that wants them.  

[GrimCoconut]

22 minutes ago, atomicfront said:

If a player isn't good enough to be on our 53 players what do we care if he clears waivers or not? If he makes it to the practice squad another team could grab him at anytime.  John Simon cleared waivers and we still lost him off our practice squad.  Being on a team's practice squad is pretty meaningless. The players are available to any team that wants them.  

That's not quite true. The player can choose to remain on the practice squad, and the team has the right to activate that player from their practice squad. If I am Team X and I want Team Y's player off their practice squad, player A must agree to be activated and brought to my team. If player A refuses, he remains on Team X's practice squad. If player A agrees, but Team X decides to activate him instead (which they have the right to do since they know Team Y wants to bring the player up from the practice squad), then Team X has the right of first refusal in this case. It's why we lost out on some guys a couple years back when CBs starting dropping like flies near a zapper--other times refused to let us poach their PS players by activating them when we attempted to bring them up ourselves. 

[Maryland]

2 hours ago, atomicfront said:

If a player isn't good enough to be on our 53 players what do we care if he clears waivers or not? If he makes it to the practice squad another team could grab him at anytime.  John Simon cleared waivers and we still lost him off our practice squad.  Being on a team's practice squad is pretty meaningless. The players are available to any team that wants them.  

History is littered with great players who started their careers on the PS. Just recently I can think of Butler and Aiken (pretty sure Aiken was a PS guy early-on). James Harrison was on our PS for a brief time. Kris Dielman started on the Chargers PS before becoming a multiple Pro-Bowler for them. Arian Foster was a PS guy.

It's better to get a guy on your PS even for only a brief period than to not even have a chance at him because someone else picked him up. Then you can better gauge their talent and call them up in response if someone else tried to poach them. 

Edited August 31, 2016 by Maryland

[rmcjacket23]

15 hours ago, Wildabeast88 said:

Ochi was projected as a 4th round pick and there is a premium on pass rushers

Why does projection matter after the actual draft occurred?

[rmcjacket23]

6 hours ago, Maryland said:

History is littered with great players who started their careers on the PS. Just recently I can think of Butler and Aiken (pretty sure Aiken was a PS guy early-on). James Harrison was on our PS for a brief time. Kris Dielman started on the Chargers PS before becoming a multiple Pro-Bowler for them. Arian Foster was a PS guy.

It's better to get a guy on your PS even for only a brief period than to not even have a chance at him because someone else picked him up. Then you can better gauge their talent and call them up in response if someone else tried to poach them. 

I would mostly say good to average players, not great players.

The fact that great players like Harrison and Dielman are examples of this, yet that was basically a decade ago, is kind of evidence that it doesn't occur very often.

I agree that's there certainly the possibility that PS players will evolve into good, valuable players, but you're really talking about MAYBE a handful a year across the entire league. There will be well over 300 players on teams PS squads this year, and I'd bet no more than 30 of them ever amount to anything more than being role players. That's not a very good percentage.

[rmcjacket23]

9 hours ago, atomicfront said:

If a player isn't good enough to be on our 53 players what do we care if he clears waivers or not? If he makes it to the practice squad another team could grab him at anytime.  John Simon cleared waivers and we still lost him off our practice squad.  Being on a team's practice squad is pretty meaningless. The players are available to any team that wants them.  

A team that poaches a player off our PS can't put them on their PS in that season... they have to be on their active roster.

So basically, a player that isn't good enough to make our 53 would have to be perceived to be good enough to make the 53 of the team that wants them. That's what happened with John Simon.

As a generality, and we've discussed this on other topics before, the risk of losing a player who actually turns out to be good off our PS to another is almost none. It simply doesn't really happen. John Simon is probably one of if not the best player in franchise history that was poached off our PS and is on another team, and he's basically just an average NFL player really, and I don't think he could start for this team either.

[BmoreBird22]

7 hours ago, Maryland said:

History is littered with great players who started their careers on the PS. Just recently I can think of Butler and Aiken (pretty sure Aiken was a PS guy early-on). James Harrison was on our PS for a brief time. Kris Dielman started on the Chargers PS before becoming a multiple Pro-Bowler for them. Arian Foster was a PS guy.

It's better to get a guy on your PS even for only a brief period than to not even have a chance at him because someone else picked him up. Then you can better gauge their talent and call them up in response if someone else tried to poach them. 

Just a side note, but Foster, Aiken, and Dielman all spent less than a season combined on the PS, I'm pretty sure (if not, right at a season). Very rarely will you find a guy like Harrison that stays on the PS for several years to develop and actually make a name for himself.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

19 hours ago, allblackraven said:

Because they are good enough to get a chance elsewhere. 

Here's the problem.

Signing them would mean they have to go on the team's active 53. Team's werent interested enough to draft them, and didnt have as much interest as us in signing them as UDFA's. Now, having not seen them practice at all for the offseason and limited film of them playing minimal snaps against 3rd stringers in pre-season - why would they now cut a guy they actually have seen/developed/practiced in their system for one of our guys who is a long long long shot at best.

It just doesnt make sense. It's hard enough for rookies to contribute right away. Even harder for UDFA rookies. And darn near impossible for UDFA rookies that werent a part of your training camp and OTA's who have less than 2 weeks to prepare for the season. Teams typically dont have the luxury of carrying guys on their roster that they hope will develop in a couple years.

 

Now I'm sure some teams would have interest in signing these guys to their PS, but they cant do that without us getting a crack at them as well... and both are more valuable to the Ravens than any other NFL team.

I'm probably Onwuasor's biggest supporter on these forums - and I'd all but guarantee, and bet my house on the fact that he clears waivers no problem at all.

[Filmstudy]

7 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Here's the problem.

Signing them would mean they have to go on the team's active 53. Team's werent interested enough to draft them, and didnt have as much interest as us in signing them as UDFA's. Now, having not seen them practice at all for the offseason and limited film of them playing minimal snaps against 3rd stringers in pre-season - why would they now cut a guy they actually have seen/developed/practiced in their system for one of our guys who is a long long long shot at best.

It just doesnt make sense. It's hard enough for rookies to contribute right away. Even harder for UDFA rookies. And darn near impossible for UDFA rookies that werent a part of your training camp and OTA's who have less than 2 weeks to prepare for the season. Teams typically dont have the luxury of carrying guys on their roster that they hope will develop in a couple years.

 

Now I'm sure some teams would have interest in signing these guys to their PS, but they cant do that without us getting a crack at them as well... and both are more valuable to the Ravens than any other NFL team.

I'm probably Onwuasor's biggest supporter on these forums - and I'd all but guarantee, and bet my house on the fact that he clears waivers no problem at all.

Once he's on the Ravens practice squad, if he is subsequently claimed, he must go to the active roster.  But the player can sign to another team's PS now after passing through waivers.  So the player can self-direct to a better opportunity, particularly in terms of the competition in front of him.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Filmstudy

[Maryland]

15 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I would mostly say good to average players, not great players.

The fact that great players like Harrison and Dielman are examples of this, yet that was basically a decade ago, is kind of evidence that it doesn't occur very often.

I agree that's there certainly the possibility that PS players will evolve into good, valuable players, but you're really talking about MAYBE a handful a year across the entire league. There will be well over 300 players on teams PS squads this year, and I'd bet no more than 30 of them ever amount to anything more than being role players. That's not a very good percentage.

True, I guess I meant average with some rare players turning-in a great career. Nevertheless, it's better to have a player you like make your PS than lose him to someone else.