[News] Late For Work 8/26: Five Ravens In Jeopardy For First Round Of Cuts

[jravens1313]

i'm not sure what this article means about wr CRIS MATHEWS,I looked at the depth chart yesterday and he's listed #2

Chris Mathews will be cut. He sits behind Steve Smith, Kamar Aiken, Mike Wallace, Breshad Perriman, Jeremy Butler, Chris Moore, and Michael Campanaro on the depth chart. IMO Camp will also get cut.

[eze17]

I still wonder about keeping four TE's and four RB's. Yeah, I realize that all these guys are impressive, and each brings something to the table, but there's no way we can get enough snaps for all of them in a game situation. There's other positions that are going to be lacking depth, so I don't know that some kind of chicanery won't go down to relieve the situation.

[jravens1313]

First 5 cuts

1. Chuck Jacobs WR
2. Stephen Houston RB
3. Matt Skura C
4. Tevon Coley DT
5. Kavel Coner -LB

I think there will be some big names cut but not right away. I think some of the big names are:

1. James Hurst T (I agree with the article)
2. Lorenzo Talifero RB (Kid can play but cant stay healthy)
3. Kyle Arrington CB (agree with article)
4. Julian Wilson CB (just too much in front of him)
5. Keenan Reynolds WR (maybe he will go to PS which I hope)

I do NOT think that these 5 guys will be cut (even though maybe they should)?

1. Arthur Brown ILB (He is improving- just really slow)
2. KLM (DL) (especially with the injury to Kafusi)
3. Pitta TE (even though he has been more injured then Camp)
4. Camp WR (we need a return guy too much)
5. Anthony Levine S (we like his size and versatility)

Talifero, Arrington, are goners. Reynolds is going straight to the practice squad if he clears waivers for more punt return work. Kendrick Lewis is high risk too. Pitta is healthy and running routes like a monster. His cap figure was already reduced drastically. I could see him being a huge surprise this year if he holds up. Darren Waller is out also.

A. Levine has makes big plays in seemingly every year during the preseason since he joined our roster in 2012. He is a solid special teams player and offers versatility. His sure tackling actually opened up an opportunity where he will drop down to play linebacker in passing down packages this year.

[J.O.14]

First 5 cuts

1. Chuck Jacobs WR
2. Stephen Houston RB
3. Matt Skura C
4. Tevon Coley DT
5. Kavel Coner -LB

I think there will be some big names cut but not right away. I think some of the big names are:

1. James Hurst T (I agree with the article)
2. Lorenzo Talifero RB (Kid can play but cant stay healthy)
3. Kyle Arrington CB (agree with article)
4. Julian Wilson CB (just too much in front of him)
5. Keenan Reynolds WR (maybe he will go to PS which I hope)

I do NOT think that these 5 guys will be cut (even though maybe they should)?

1. Arthur Brown ILB (He is improving- just really slow)
2. KLM (DL) (especially with the injury to Kafusi)
3. Pitta TE (even though he has been more injured then Camp)
4. Camp WR (we need a return guy too much)
5. Anthony Levine S (we like his size and versatility)

I agree with a lot of that but the two I don't think make it are Art Brown and KLM. Mosley and Orr will be the ILBs, with McCLellan and Correa being the backups. Suggs, Smith, Doom, and Judon will make a nice rotation on the outside. Correa can obviously rush the passer and play inside, and McClellan has been a solid player at OLB even though his pass rushing skills aren't the best, and he has played ILB before. There really isn't a place for Art Brown anymore. KLM is clearly a numbers game. He just doesn't make the cut. The injuries hurt him big time.

[jravens1313]

  1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  2 hours ago, The Mom Gene said:

Trust me, if we can't afford Hester... we can't afford Bosa.

Affording Hester isn't the problem. Just doesn't seem logical to pay a player solely to be a returner, and his impact probably doesn't exceed the cost of signing him compared to a replacement player.

We CERTAINLY have more than enough cap space to sign Bosa if we wanted to, but that's not an option anyway.

We pay a player soley to he a long snapper, why not a returner. Im not saying I want Hester...im just sayin'.

Our roster has many starting caliber players on the bubble at skill positions RB, TE, WR and some deep battles at other positions. When roster spots are tight, versatility become the name of the game. Only 53 make the team.

[patmanley27]

If Jeremy Butler doesn't make the team I'll be so upset.

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, jravens1313 said:

Talifero, Arrington, are goners. Reynolds is going straight to the practice squad if he clears waivers for more punt return work. Kendrick Lewis is high risk too. Pitta is healthy and running routes like a monster. His cap figure was already reduced drastically. I could see him being a huge surprise this year if he holds up. Darren Waller is out also.

A. Levine has makes big plays in seemingly every year during the preseason since he joined our roster in 2012. He is a solid special teams player and offers versatility. His sure tackling actually opened up an opportunity where he will drop down to play linebacker in passing down packages this year.
 

1. Taliaferro is injured, so you can't cut injured players without a settlement. More likely he goes on IR or PUP.

2. Kendrick Lewis wasn't at risk before, and certainly isn't at risk now, since Elam is likely headed to IR as well. He's the 3rd safety on this team right now with pretty much no competition.

3. Pitta isn't healthy. He hasn't practiced in almost four weeks now, and he doesn't appear ready to start practicing anytime soon. He's a possible candidate for PUP or IR too, or to be cut all together. His reduced salary doesn't really change that.

 

[The Mom Gene]

2 hours ago, hen826957 said:

We can afford Hester and we can definitely afford Bosa as well. The only way l see Bosa to end up a Raven unless they release him. I don't know a trade could be possible.

Guys......   Maybe they just don't want to afford him...  That said: 

     "Hester would be a luxury signing that the Ravens likely can’t afford with limited roster space available. In an ideal situation, they want a productive player on offense or defense to also man the returner roles.

“I’ve been consistent in saying this, but I don’t believe the Ravens have enough roster flexibility to be able to keep a player strictly for returns,” wrote The Baltimore Sun’s Jeff Zrebiec back when Hester was first released."

 

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Late-For-Work-825-On-Same-Day-Devin-Hester-Asks-Teams-To-Call-Ravens-Say-Returner-Job-Is-Open/a26f0b00-92a2-49d6-9014-07309c0d27d6

[The Mom Gene]

2 hours ago, hen826957 said:

We can afford Hester and we can definitely afford Bosa as well. The only way l see Bosa to end up a Raven unless they release him. I don't know a trade could be possible.

And my original point was too....  NOBODY can, or is gonna get Bosa from the Chargers...  And that's as sure as us signing Hester.

[The Mom Gene]

2 hours ago, A Fish Called Yanda said:

The Chargers can't release him b/c he hasn't been signed. The only two options are the Chargers sign him (4 year + 1 year option contract) or he goes back into the draft next year.

That was hen that made that statement....  not me.  I knew that.

[The Mom Gene]

2 hours ago, CTRaven5 said:

This is a very false claim that people make lol

Did you know that 1 in 6 NFL players files for bankruptcy?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/15/its-an-nfl-life-millions-of-dollars-for-banging-heads-then-bankruptcy/

 

 

[TheConquerorWorm]

  21 minutes ago, jravens1313 said:

Talifero, Arrington, are goners. Reynolds is going straight to the practice squad if he clears waivers for more punt return work. Kendrick Lewis is high risk too. Pitta is healthy and running routes like a monster. His cap figure was already reduced drastically. I could see him being a huge surprise this year if he holds up. Darren Waller is out also.

A. Levine has makes big plays in seemingly every year during the preseason since he joined our roster in 2012. He is a solid special teams player and offers versatility. His sure tackling actually opened up an opportunity where he will drop down to play linebacker in passing down packages this year.
 

1. Taliaferro is injured, so you can't cut injured players without a settlement. More likely he goes on IR or PUP.

2. Kendrick Lewis wasn't at risk before, and certainly isn't at risk now, since Elam is likely headed to IR as well. He's the 3rd safety on this team right now with pretty much no competition.

3. Pitta isn't healthy. He hasn't practiced in almost four weeks now, and he doesn't appear ready to start practicing anytime soon. He's a possible candidate for PUP or IR too, or to be cut all together. His reduced salary doesn't really change that.

 

Taliaferro is already on the PUP list - he will stay there, so the Ravens don't have to make a decision on him until later in the year.

Pitta can't be placed on the PUP list & neither can any other player besides Taliaferro. Pitta just has a broken finger - before that he was back to his old self. 4-6 weeks heal time means that he will be back for Week 1 or Week 2 at the latest. He makes the team.

[balfan23]

30 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. Taliaferro is injured, so you can't cut injured players without a settlement. More likely he goes on IR or PUP.

2. Kendrick Lewis wasn't at risk before, and certainly isn't at risk now, since Elam is likely headed to IR as well. He's the 3rd safety on this team right now with pretty much no competition.

3. Pitta isn't healthy. He hasn't practiced in almost four weeks now, and he doesn't appear ready to start practicing anytime soon. He's a possible candidate for PUP or IR too, or to be cut all together. His reduced salary doesn't really change that.

 

On Pitta - his health issue is a broken finger - which if it has been left to heal for 4 weeks already, so it probably isn't far from being healed enough to play.  I just don't see them cutting him at this point. They've gone this far in trying to see him through this recovery, I don't think they pull the plug on that now. 

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

Taliaferro is already on the PUP list - he will stay there, so the Ravens don't have to make a decision on him until later in the year.

Pitta can't be placed on the PUP list & neither can any other player besides Taliaferro. Pitta just has a broken finger - before that he was back to his old self. 4-6 weeks heal time means that he will be back for Week 1 or Week 2 at the latest. He makes the team.

Didn't mean to say PUP for Pitta, but not sure why so many people are convinced he's going to make this team (or at least start on the active roster). No definitive timeline whatsoever on him, since it is a break, and 4-6 weeks obviously seems highly optimistic at this point.

Given how long he's been out and given the depth at the position, he's at best the 4th TE right now and probably when he returns. There's still no guarantee the Ravens are interested in carrying 4 active TEs on the roster. In fact, I would almost guarantee that they wouldn't carry more than 3 active on gameday, meaning somebody among Pitta, Crockett, Maxx or Watson is a gameday inactive.

He PROBABLY makes the team, but he's the likeliest out of the four to be cut for certain.

[balfan23]

5 minutes ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

Taliaferro is already on the PUP list - he will stay there, so the Ravens don't have to make a decision on him until later in the year.

Pitta can't be placed on the PUP list & neither can any other player besides Taliaferro. Pitta just has a broken finger - before that he was back to his old self. 4-6 weeks heal time means that he will be back for Week 1 or Week 2 at the latest. He makes the team.

I thought that a player couldn't be put on the PUP, if they participated in training camp, but I couldn't find anything definite that support that.  

[rmcjacket23]

7 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

Did you know that 1 in 6 NFL players files for bankruptcy?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/15/its-an-nfl-life-millions-of-dollars-for-banging-heads-then-bankruptcy/

 

 

I mean, I'd sort of call that misleading a bit, considering its 1 in 6 after 12 years. Considering the average NFL career is only roughly 3 years, they go almost a full decade after their playing career before going bankrupt.

In most cases, its obvious why. Most players that get contracts think they'll play 10+ years and make millions. In reality, some of them will never even make $1M, and they will certainly blow through it quickly thinking they'll have more income in the future.

Factor that in with lack of education and lack of knowledge to fall back on after their career, and its not hard to see why.

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, balfan23 said:

I thought that a player couldn't be put on the PUP, if they participated in training camp, but I couldn't find anything definite that support that.  

If they practice even for a few minutes during training camp, they are ineligible for the regular season PUP list. I didn't mean to include him in that window... I copied and pasted the IR part from what I said about Taliaferro.

[The Mom Gene]

7 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I mean, I'd sort of call that misleading a bit, considering its 1 in 6 after 12 years. Considering the average NFL career is only roughly 3 years, they go almost a full decade after their playing career before going bankrupt.

In most cases, its obvious why. Most players that get contracts think they'll play 10+ years and make millions. In reality, some of them will never even make $1M, and they will certainly blow through it quickly thinking they'll have more income in the future.

Factor that in with lack of education and lack of knowledge to fall back on after their career, and its not hard to see why.

Most do not invest their money.  They are young and over-extend themselves.  Most NFL players could actually live very comfortably on the salaries they make.  The trouble comes when people surrounding them want them to "share their wealth".  And so many buy "things" and live lavishly.

It's really not misleading at all......

http://www.munknee.com/78-of-nfl-players-go-bankrupt-within-5-years/

[balfan23]

8 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Didn't mean to say PUP for Pitta, but not sure why so many people are convinced he's going to make this team (or at least start on the active roster). No definitive timeline whatsoever on him, since it is a break, and 4-6 weeks obviously seems highly optimistic at this point.

Given how long he's been out and given the depth at the position, he's at best the 4th TE right now and probably when he returns. There's still no guarantee the Ravens are interested in carrying 4 active TEs on the roster. In fact, I would almost guarantee that they wouldn't carry more than 3 active on gameday, meaning somebody among Pitta, Crockett, Maxx or Watson is a gameday inactive.

He PROBABLY makes the team, but he's the likeliest out of the four to be cut for certain.

Prior to his broken finger, reports were very positive about how he looked in training camp. Yes, I understand those kinds of reports are of limited value, but they are the kinds of things people latch onto and is why many are convinced he'll make the team. 

It is so hard to say where he is among the 4 TEs, because he's seen so little action ... but for me, I just don't feel like Maxx is progressing very well. He still looks a bit like a boy among men to me and may be the one who I would consider the 4th best option at the moment. Of course, the problem is, what can we do? He's a major investment that we just have to hope eventually pans out. So, I don't know that Pitta is the 4th best TE right now, but he would be the most expendable. 

[rmcjacket23]

4 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

Most do not invest their money.  They are young and over-extend themselves.  Most NFL players could actually live very comfortably on the salaries they make.  The trouble comes when people surrounding them want them to "share their wealth".  And so many buy "things" and live lavishly.

It's really not misleading at all......

http://www.munknee.com/78-of-nfl-players-go-bankrupt-within-5-years/

I mean it all depends. A typical player who only plays 3 years in the league isn't going to make $1M in any of those seasons... he's likely on a rookie deal paying somewhere in the $500K range per season, or is an UDFA possibly making less.

As it were, if you made even $1-$1.5M in three years, and you retire at age 25 (whether voluntarily or involuntarily), that's still not going to be enough to live on for the rest of your life. 

You're going to have to come up with some sort of other substantial income eventually. And yes, you won't be able to buy two houses and four cars either.

[rmcjacket23]

7 minutes ago, balfan23 said:

Prior to his broken finger, reports were very positive about how he looked in training camp. Yes, I understand those kinds of reports are of limited value, but they are the kinds of things people latch onto and is why many are convinced he'll make the team. 

It is so hard to say where he is among the 4 TEs, because he's seen so little action ... but for me, I just don't feel like Maxx is progressing very well. He still looks a bit like a boy among men to me and may be the one who I would consider the 4th best option at the moment. Of course, the problem is, what can we do? He's a major investment that we just have to hope eventually pans out. So, I don't know that Pitta is the 4th best TE right now, but he would be the most expendable. 

Correct... he's the only one of the four who's roster spot is even remotely questionable. Maxx and Crockett have guaranteed contracts that lock them into a spot, and Watson is the starter and the highest paid of the group.

Pitta's availability, as always, is the problem. Spending practically all of training camp and the preseason on the sidelines isn't good for anybody, let alone somebody with major competition and historical injury concerns.

I just don't see how he gets significant snaps early in the season with this team, and I seriously doubt the Ravens are willing to keep him around for a weeks on the active roster once the season starts in order for him to get better. 

If he's going to miss a few weeks of the regular season, which is entirely possible, he may very well end up on IR and they'll see if they want to activate him later on.

But regardless, as I said, between him and Maxx realistically, one of them isn't playing on Sunday's. Neither is a good look for whoever is sitting.

Edited August 26, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[The Mom Gene]

5 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I mean it all depends. A typical player who only plays 3 years in the league isn't going to make $1M in any of those seasons... he's likely on a rookie deal paying somewhere in the $500K range per season, or is an UDFA possibly making less.

As it were, if you made even $1-$1.5M in three years, and you retire at age 25 (whether voluntarily or involuntarily), that's still not going to be enough to live on for the rest of your life. 

You're going to have to come up with some sort of other substantial income eventually. And yes, you won't be able to buy two houses and four cars either.

Most do not retire in 3 years unless they have serious injuries.  I can tell you first hand...  they might get that $500K like you are speaking of, but they do get signing bonuses and such as well.  A vast majority of them do not invest their money well.   That being said also, if managed correctly, they shouldn't or wouldn't need to file for bankruptcy.  If they have a short career, and retire at 25, one would hope that they would be working elsewhere, taking on another career.

[rmcjacket23]

12 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

Most do not retire in 3 years unless they have serious injuries.  I can tell you first hand...  they might get that $500K like you are speaking of, but they do get signing bonuses and such as well.  A vast majority of them do not invest their money well.   That being said also, if managed correctly, they shouldn't or wouldn't need to file for bankruptcy.  If they have a short career, and retire at 25, one would hope that they would be working elsewhere, taking on another career.

The average career is 3.3 years. That's mostly due to a combination of injuries and not being good enough to play. Gotta realize a ton of the late round draft picks and UDFAs don't ever make it more than 2-3 years in the entire league. Long list of late round picks and UDFAs from this very franchise that never made it past their rookie deal, which is four years, and many of them never made it that long. In most cases, its not injury that stops their career... its production. They get cut, and teams don't think they are good enough to play anymore.

Take a guy like Tommy Streeter for example. He was a 6th round pick in 2012. His first year with us, he made $484K, with a roughly $94K signing bonus.

He was cut after that season. He made $52,500 in 2013 as a member of the Bills, and made about $490K in 2014 as a member of the Jags.

He was out of the league in 2015 and it appears his career is done.

So a 6th round pick makes it just about 3 years in the league, and makes just over $1M total. Great for three years of work, obviously, but not nearly enough to live on forever.

Most draft picks get very little guaranteed money. 

Somebody like Matt Judon, who's a fifth round pick, only gets a $255K signing bonus. If he played only three years for us and then was forced into retirement, he would make about $1.875M in those three years, roughly $630K a season on average. Again, not enough to live on for the rest of your life.

All a matter of draft position and production.

For these players, they think they're going to get that mega-extension long-term, because they have confidence in their abilities. So they leverage their first contract into debt, by buying houses, taking out loans, making bad investments, etc. Then, in 3-4 years, when the money stops coming in because they're out of the league, they realize they don't have the skills to go find a $400K a year job elsewhere, instead probably settling for $50K a year jobs. Not enough to pay the debt they have, so, they go bankrupt.

Edited August 26, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[balfan23]

One thing I'll say with respect to the ex-sports guys who fall on financial hard times ... I do think it is unfair that many want to view them as fools for having squandered their money. To be fair, we're talking about guys between the ages of 22 and 25 here. I think back to myself at that age and think of the money I squandered. Sheesh. I'd be looking at retirement a whole lot sooner than I currently am, if I had only had some better money sense about me. 

So - maybe they are fools ... but they are no more or less foolish than most guys who simply don't reach financial maturity until they are much older - or get married ... which is the only thing that straightened me out :-)

[Obie]

You have got to be kidding me bro, at $50k per year for 20 years, aka $1M, probably 90%of America would love to make that for a living. Bunch of prima donnas.

[rmcjacket23]

One thing I'll say with respect to the ex-sports guys who fall on financial hard times ... I do think it is unfair that many want to view them as fools for having squandered their money. To be fair, we're talking about guys between the ages of 22 and 25 here. I think back to myself at that age and think of the money I squandered. Sheesh. I'd be looking at retirement a whole lot sooner than I currently am, if I had only had some better money sense about me. 

So - maybe they are fools ... but they are no more or less foolish than most guys who simply don't reach financial maturity until they are much older - or get married ... which is the only thing that straightened me out :-)

I mean I agree, but there's a difference here. In order go bankrupt, you basically have to have accumulated a bunch of debt. People don't really claim bankruptcy when they don't owe anybody anything... they're just broke.

While I definitely spent a lot of money when I got my first job, which was just as a middle-class earner, I didn't go leveraging that money to buy things I knew I couldn't afford.

So when the guy who gets a $250K signing bonus goes out and uses that to buy a $1.5M house, I don't feel bad for them, because that's not something I would have done.

Much of the bankruptcy issues stems from players using their short-term wealth to accumulate debt, mostly to purchase things that they THINK they will be able to afford, but ultimately realize they can't.

[hen826957]

  24 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

Most do not retire in 3 years unless they have serious injuries.  I can tell you first hand...  they might get that $500K like you are speaking of, but they do get signing bonuses and such as well.  A vast majority of them do not invest their money well.   That being said also, if managed correctly, they shouldn't or wouldn't need to file for bankruptcy.  If they have a short career, and retire at 25, one would hope that they would be working elsewhere, taking on another career.

The average career is 3.3 years. That's mostly due to a combination of injuries and not being good enough to play. Gotta realize a ton of the late round draft picks and UDFAs don't ever make it more than 2-3 years in the entire league. Long list of late round picks and UDFAs from this very franchise that never made it past their rookie deal, which is four years, and many of them never made it that long. In most cases, its not injury that stops their career... its production. They get cut, and teams don't think they are good enough to play anymore.

Take a guy like Tommy Streeter for example. He was a 6th round pick in 2012. His first year with us, he made $484K, with a roughly $94K signing bonus.

He was cut after that season. He made $52,500 in 2013 as a member of the Bills, and made about $490K in 2014 as a member of the Jags.

He was out of the league in 2015 and it appears his career is done.

So a 6th round pick makes it just about 3 years in the league, and makes just over $1M total. Great for three years of work, obviously, but not nearly enough to live on forever.

Most draft picks get very little guaranteed money. 

Somebody like Matt Judon, who's a fifth round pick, only gets a $255K signing bonus. If he played only three years for us and then was forced into retirement, he would make about $1.875M in those three years, roughly $630K a season on average. Again, not enough to live on for the rest of your life.

All a matter of draft position and production.

For these players, they think they're going to get that mega-extension long-term, because they have confidence in their abilities. So they leverage their first contract into debt, by buying houses, taking out loans, making bad investments, etc. Then, in 3-4 years, when the money stops coming in because they're out of the league, they realize they don't have the skills to go find a $400K a year job elsewhere, instead probably settling for $50K a year jobs. Not enough to pay the debt they have, so, they go bankrupt.

Man that just made me sad. I do remember Tommy Streeter as well and l almost forgot about him. ? Boy late round picks don't even have a chance to play. 3 or 4 years boom never heard of them again. Sometimes it seems useless to even be a late drafter because teams have starters ahead of them is better. That's why sometimes Ozzie need to trade drafts picks to get the positions we need for 2nd or 3rd rounds and stop being greedy for picks.

[TheConquerorWorm]

The first cuts to 75 are easy:

Brennen Bryer
Jarell Broxton
Carrington Bryndom
Trevon Coley
Dobson Collins
Kavell Conner
Tony Fabiano
Stephen Houston
Chuck Jacobs
Wil Lutz
Mario Ojemudia
Michael Pierce
Matt Skura
Darius White
Julian Wilson

The last pre-season game will decide which back-ups make the team and which don't.

[rmcjacket23]

The first cuts to 75 are easy:

Brennen Bryer
Jarell Broxton
Carrington Bryndom
Trevon Coley
Dobson Collins
Kavell Conner
Tony Fabiano
Stephen Houston
Chuck Jacobs
Wil Lutz
Mario Ojemudia
Michael Pierce
Matt Skura
Darius White
Julian Wilson

The last pre-season game will decide which back-ups make the team and which don't.

There will probably be other veterans, such as Art Brown or Arrington, in the group of first cuts. If there are any veterans that they know by now they don't want to cut, they'll likely give them a head start on finding new employment as a courtesy to them.

I'd probably expect to see Arrington and/or Brown on that first list.

[hen826957]

You have got to be kidding me bro, at $50k per year for 20 years, aka $1M, probably 90%of America would love to make that for a living. Bunch of prima donnas.

When l look at it, to me $50k a year is not a lot in my book. It's decent but not comfortable. $80k is better. You will be still struggling.