[News] Late For Work 8/23: Ravens Beginning To Look Whole Again

[BR News]

Does Matt Elam’s injury mark the end of his Ravens’ career? Roster decisions becoming less daunting. Ravens trying to hide Victor Ochi? More clarity in the return game. Ryan Jensen can’t get pancaked like that.

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[crazyboutravens]

I have never seen any team so obsessed with talking about the return game. That part of the NFL is almost obsolete. Let us worry about more important issues.

[nj_ravens]

I have never seen any team so obsessed with talking about the return game. That part of the NFL is almost obsolete. Let us worry about more important issues.

@crazyboutravens

1) Our head coach is a special teams coach. Of course they are talking about the return.

2) We were the #1 ranked special teams unit last year. Of course they want to follow that up.

3) Kickoffs and punts are not obsolete (yet), they are still part of the game, and therefore they must be practiced.

4) Field position matters. Giving your opponent a short field and slows them from getting points, and gives us a better chance of getting points on our next drive. Likewise, if we have a good return game, we can try get at least 3 on every drive because we have the best kicker in the game.

5) Muffed punts. Do I need to say more? We need players who can cleanly field the ball AND provide a spark.

6) 2012 Jacoby Jones says "Hey ,remember me?" ...the spark he provided on returns was invaluable to that team's success.

Until they get rid of the return we cannot ignore it, and to suggest worrying about those things is not "important" is simply naive.

[bioLarzen]

"Except for Perriman, it’s not a necessity that the recently-activated PUP players participate in a preseason game considering their experience. They have 3-4 weeks to knock the rust off in practice."

Sarah... Week#1 is in 19 days. That's less than 3 weeks.

[bioLarzen]

I may be alone with this - and it's by no means a knock Perriman! - but I'm sick and tired of hearing ans reading of the high potential Perriman has once he hite the field... Iwant to see him in real action first. I don't care about potential until it's realized. A diamond burried deep in the earth is worth nothing. Let's dig out, cut and polish that diamond!

[stixfix69]

Perriman has been rehabbing, so not like he has been sitting on the couch and doing nothing, now it's just getting out there, and getting in sync with Joe. He might see some action this week, since he did practice yesterday. Team is starting to shape up......Pitta looks like he could be a PUP candidate again, the way they make that finger sounds....If Elam is out for a month or so, bring in another CB not another Safety....

[bioLarzen]

I didn't really see the point in putting Urban on the designated list before Week#1 - and I don't see the point in doing the same with Elam. The designated tag is pretty precious, as you can only use it once per season... Let's suppose Flacco gets injured Week #5, and is projected to have to miss 4-5 weeks... or Suggs... or Weddle... without the designated tag you either have to IR them or keep them on the active roster, taking up a precious roster spot in vain during that span... Just rmember how good it was that when Ray Lewis went down in the middle of the 2012 season, the designated tag was still available, so he could be stashed on it until the playoffs...

[January J]

1 minute ago, bioLarzen said:

I didn't really see the point in putting Urban on the designated list before Week#1 - and I don't see the point in doing the same with Elam. The designated tag is pretty precious, as you can only use it once per season... Let's suppose Flacco gets injured Week #5, and is projected to have to miss 4-5 weeks... or Suggs... or Weddle... without the designated tag you either have to IR them or keep them on the active roster, taking up a precious roster spot in vain during that span... Just rmember how good it was that when Ray Lewis went down in the middle of the 2012 season, the designated tag was still available, so he could be stashed on it until the playoffs...

Yeah but from what I understand the rules are a little different this year..we don't have to put the designation on him right away.. We can IR him and if another more important player gets injured later on down the line we can choose to use it on them. Very helpful in a situation like this.  That's not the best explanation of the new rule but its something along those lines.

[bioLarzen]

"“Injuries to Kaelin Clay and Chris Matthews (he’s returned, but is there enough time?), and the struggles of rookie Keenan Reynolds may have made decisions a little easier at wide receiver,” Zrebiec wrote."

Especially since Clay is no longer on the team.

[bioLarzen]

Haha, the Wolf Pack looks just like they were summoned by the school Principal for some serious misbehavor, and they're in the middle of some serious talking to :D :D :D

[VermontRaven]

Perriman has been rehabbing, so not like he has been sitting on the couch and doing nothing, now it's just getting out there, and getting in sync with Joe. He might see some action this week, since he did practice yesterday. Team is starting to shape up......Pitta looks like he could be a PUP candidate again, the way they make that finger sounds....If Elam is out for a month or so, bring in another CB not another Safety....

We can't PUP PItta since he has been participating in camp. He has to be on the 53 man roster (only other option would be to IR him or cut him with an injury settlement, which I don't see happening)

[MTRavensFan]

5 minutes ago, January J said:

Yeah but from what I understand the rules are a little different this year..we don't have to put the designation on him right away.. We can IR him and if another more important player gets injured later on down the line we can choose to use it on them. Very helpful in a situation like this.  That's not the best explanation of the new rule but its something along those lines.

You're absolutely right.

Under the new rule you can activate any player off of IR, you don't need to DTR a player in advance. The key is, you can only do that once during the season. So theoretically, we could IR BOTH Elam and Pitta, and then wait to see how it shakes out. It would probably mean the end of one of them, though. Still, the new rule gives teams a lot more flexibility.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I have never seen any team so obsessed with talking about the return game. That part of the NFL is almost obsolete. Let us worry about more important issues.

maybe kick off returns are phasing out a little (even though stats from this preseason show that the return rate is actually way up)... but theyre talking about the punt return job, which is in no way really being phased out.

And depending how you look at it... as something is phased away, or less opportunities are presented to a team, having the ability to really take advantage of those few opportunities becomes a huge advantage.

Put it this way - the Ravens dont focus on it and just throw Reynolds back there bc hes good in space... if/when he muffs just one punt youll be cussing the coaching staff out for not focusing on it more and finding a good return man.

Punts may not seem important until you have to deal with forcing a stop on 3rd down, and instead of getting the ball back for the offense, we turn it over to them in the red zone.

[Ravensfansince03]

Jensen used poor footwork on that bad play.

Elam should be cut, we need to move on. Imagine the contribution we cold have got from another guy drafted in that 1st round. Along with Perriman.

Can we rely on Pitta to stay healthy anymore?

Cut Waller, and promote Daniel Brown. At least do something to put your franchise 100 Million dollar QB in positions to make plays. D.Brown has shown the ability to make the catch securely. Something Waller has not shown.

Kenneth Dixon is a better back than Buck Allen, Terrence West, and probably will end up better than Forsett. If he keeps the pace then the backup role behind Forsett should definitely go to Dixon.

[January J]

11 minutes ago, MTRavensFan said:

You're absolutely right.

Under the new rule you can activate any player off of IR, you don't need to DTR a player in advance. The key is, you can only do that once during the season. So theoretically, we could IR BOTH Elam and Pitta, and then wait to see how it shakes out. It would probably mean the end of one of them, though. Still, the new rule gives teams a lot more flexibility.

Do the players on IR count against the roster? I would assume so- otherwise we could just IR several guys who we see potential in and don't want to get swiped up...such as Keenan Reynolds.. Then whichever position sees a lot of injuries throughout the season we just choose the player to DTR accordingly. We couldn't go overboard with it..but 2 or 3 guys would make sense..Elam, pitta, Reynolds off the top of my head. Maybe ochi. 

Edited August 23, 2016 by January J

[Ravensfansince03]

In reference to guys like Pitta, and Perriman being 50/50. The one guy that is really feeling the heat from this is Joe Flacco. I mean, we pay this guy 100 mill, but they dont even give him a elite target. Its like for these crucial 3-4 years of this contract, its all being wasted by us having medicore recievers. Yes we have Kamar Aiken, and we added Mike Wallace, but lets not kid ourselves. We are dealing with an ENTIRE former backup WR squad. SSS is in his last year.

[January J]

5 minutes ago, Ravensfansince03 said:

Jensen used poor footwork on that bad play.

Elam should be cut, we need to move on. Imagine the contribution we cold have got from another guy drafted in that 1st round. Along with Perriman.

Can we rely on Pitta to stay healthy anymore?

Cut Waller, and promote Daniel Brown. At least do something to put your franchise 100 Million dollar QB in positions to make plays. D.Brown has shown the ability to make the catch securely. Something Waller has not shown.

Kenneth Dixon is a better back than Buck Allen, Terrence West, and probably will end up better than Forsett. If he keeps the pace then the backup role behind Forsett should definitely go to Dixon.

Would make absolute zero sense to cut waller at this point. Atleast not until after week 4. He's a killer special teams guy too which you know Harbs really covets. A guy with that size and speed is nice to have and they are pretty high on him. I get you like daniel brown but there is no basis for your statement saying brown is more reliable than waller. Your going off of one play from Waller and about 2 or 3 catches from brown. The coaches have seen a lot more than we have.

[MTRavensFan]

2 minutes ago, January J said:

Do the players on IR count against the roster? I would assume so- otherwise we could just IR several guys who we see potential in and don't want to get swiped up...such as Keenan Reynolds.. Then whichever position sees a lot of injuries throughout the season we just choose the player to DTR accordingly. We couldn't go crazy with it..but 2 or 3 guys would make sense..Elam, pitta, Reynolds off the top of my head. Maybe ochi. 

No, they don't. What you're saying is theoretically possible, in fact the Ravens have a history of IR'ing young guys with phantom injuries to prevent other teams from snatching them up off the practice squad (can't think of an example off the top of my head, but I know it's been discussed on here, maybe someone who's been around longer can help me out). In order to DTR a guy, he has to have been on IR for at least 6 wks, and then you have to make a cut on the 53 to bring him back.

The problem with that is you can't practice while on IR, which is why the PS is so important for developmental players like Ochi and Reynolds. You can prevent PS players from getting poached by activating them to the 53  but then you still have to make a cut elsewhere to make room.

Could make for an interesting situation with Elam and Pitta, though, who both seem to be at a huge fork in the road with their careers

[January J]

4 minutes ago, Ravensfansince03 said:

In reference to guys like Pitta, and Perriman being 50/50. The one guy that is really feeling the heat from this is Joe Flacco. I mean, we pay this guy 100 mill, but they dont even give him a elite target. Its like for these crucial 3-4 years of this contract, its all being wasted by us having medicore recievers. Yes we have Kamar Aiken, and we added Mike Wallace, but lets not kid ourselves. We are dealing with an ENTIRE former backup WR squad. SSS is in his last year.

They gave him a first round deep threat in perriman. Nobody's fault he's been injured. They added mike Wallace and also Moore. Not to mention Ben Watson. He has a future HOF receiver in SSS and playmakers in Aiken and campanaro. I'd say this year he has more weapons than he ever has if they stay healthy. No they don't have some expensive elite receiver but a guy like that  not needed  in the type of offense we are trying to run. And who knows what perriman could become once he estasblishes himself.  Elite receivers don't grow on trees..they are developed. Everybody was harping on Ozzie for not drafting a wr in the first round and then when they got one they still won't happy. He couldnt have foreseen these issues...dude I don't think ever even missed a game in college. 

[Cawtious]

49 minutes ago, Ravensfansince03 said:

Jensen used poor footwork on that bad play.

 

Did that defender come across the face of the guard on that play?  Jensen usually is the one giving those out.  He also got that same guy so pissed off earlier in the game that he committed a 15 yard penalty that helped us sustain a drive.  If you look at the backside pursuit, regardless of that problem on the block the RB was not going to score.

 

Upon further review, he did not come across the face of the guard.  Jensen stepped right an the pressure came from his left leaving him no leverage.  The two LB's were in the backfield quickly and the run was doomed despite him getting badly beat

Edited August 23, 2016 by Cawtious

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, bioLarzen said:

I didn't really see the point in putting Urban on the designated list before Week#1 - and I don't see the point in doing the same with Elam. The designated tag is pretty precious, as you can only use it once per season... Let's suppose Flacco gets injured Week #5, and is projected to have to miss 4-5 weeks... or Suggs... or Weddle... without the designated tag you either have to IR them or keep them on the active roster, taking up a precious roster spot in vain during that span... Just rmember how good it was that when Ray Lewis went down in the middle of the 2012 season, the designated tag was still available, so he could be stashed on it until the playoffs...

yeah the ir boomerang tagging has changed this year

you dont need to specify who now until you activate one - so you just ir everyone and then pick who to boomerang

[Ravenous_Ravens]

  1 hour ago, Ravensfansince03 said:

In reference to guys like Pitta, and Perriman being 50/50. The one guy that is really feeling the heat from this is Joe Flacco. I mean, we pay this guy 100 mill, but they dont even give him a elite target. Its like for these crucial 3-4 years of this contract, its all being wasted by us having medicore recievers. Yes we have Kamar Aiken, and we added Mike Wallace, but lets not kid ourselves. We are dealing with an ENTIRE former backup WR squad. SSS is in his last year.

They gave him a first round deep threat in perriman. Nobody's fault he's been injured. They added mike Wallace and also Moore. Not to mention Ben Watson. He has a future HOF receiver in SSS and playmakers in Aiken and campanaro. I'd say this year he has more weapons than he ever has if they stay healthy. No they don't have some expensive elite receiver but a guy like that  not needed  in the type of offense we are trying to run. And who knows what perriman could become once he estasblishes himself.  Elite receivers don't grow on trees..they are developed. Everybody was harping on Ozzie for not drafting a wr in the first round and then when they got one they still won't happy. He couldnt have foreseen these issues...dude I don't think ever even missed a game in college. 

Agreed. I am quite certain Ozzie does not like the idea of having a superstar WR but prefers having multiple legitimate targets. I don't blame him either, you gotta pay them a lot as they are far and few between plus you still need others to throw to because they will double team and blanket your stud if they can get away with it.

[Ravenous_Ravens]

Perriman has been rehabbing, so not like he has been sitting on the couch and doing nothing, now it's just getting out there, and getting in sync with Joe. He might see some action this week, since he did practice yesterday. Team is starting to shape up......Pitta looks like he could be a PUP candidate again, the way they make that finger sounds....If Elam is out for a month or so, bring in another CB not another Safety....

As a joke I want to see Perriman come out on the filed bubble wrapped for safety. lol

Think of it as his a second rookie initiation since he didn't get to play last season.

[sami]

I didn't really see the point in putting Urban on the designated list before Week#1 - and I don't see the point in doing the same with Elam. The designated tag is pretty precious, as you can only use it once per season... Let's suppose Flacco gets injured Week #5, and is projected to have to miss 4-5 weeks... or Suggs... or Weddle... without the designated tag you either have to IR them or keep them on the active roster, taking up a precious roster spot in vain during that span... Just rmember how good it was that when Ray Lewis went down in the middle of the 2012 season, the designated tag was still available, so he could be stashed on it until the playoffs...

anybody from the IR list can be the designated to return guy as long as he starts the season on the IR list.

[sami]

  1 hour ago, January J said:

  1 hour ago, Ravensfansince03 said:

In reference to guys like Pitta, and Perriman being 50/50. The one guy that is really feeling the heat from this is Joe Flacco. I mean, we pay this guy 100 mill, but they dont even give him a elite target. Its like for these crucial 3-4 years of this contract, its all being wasted by us having medicore recievers. Yes we have Kamar Aiken, and we added Mike Wallace, but lets not kid ourselves. We are dealing with an ENTIRE former backup WR squad. SSS is in his last year.

They gave him a first round deep threat in perriman. Nobody's fault he's been injured. They added mike Wallace and also Moore. Not to mention Ben Watson. He has a future HOF receiver in SSS and playmakers in Aiken and campanaro. I'd say this year he has more weapons than he ever has if they stay healthy. No they don't have some expensive elite receiver but a guy like that  not needed  in the type of offense we are trying to run. And who knows what perriman could become once he estasblishes himself.  Elite receivers don't grow on trees..they are developed. Everybody was harping on Ozzie for not drafting a wr in the first round and then when they got one they still won't happy. He couldnt have foreseen these issues...dude I don't think ever even missed a game in college. 

Agreed. I am quite certain Ozzie does not like the idea of having a superstar WR but prefers having multiple legitimate targets. I don't blame him either, you gotta pay them a lot as they are far and few between plus you still need others to throw to because they will double team and blanket your stud if they can get away with it.

exactly! case in point...Dez Bryant and Calvin Johnson. Where have their teams been during the playoffs for the last several years.

[eze17]

Yeah, I've been feeling the same about Ochi: the Raven's do seem to be trying to keep him out of the limelight. Of course, with all the positions he plays at loaded, I don't know how much playing time he should get anyways. You don't want to take valuable snaps away from guys that are near-locks to make the team and need reps. All this being said, it seems the Ravens always find a way to keep at least one un-drafted rookie on the 53 man roster every year, so I wouldn't write Ochi off yet. The guy looks to have good skills and a high motor, so the brass will do everything to keep him if they really like him and feel he can "play like a Raven!"

[budman]

3 hours ago, stixfix69 said:

Perriman has been rehabbing, so not like he has been sitting on the couch and doing nothing, now it's just getting out there, and getting in sync with Joe. He might see some action this week, since he did practice yesterday. Team is starting to shape up......Pitta looks like he could be a PUP candidate again, the way they make that finger sounds....If Elam is out for a month or so, bring in another CB not another Safety....

Perriman only went through a "light" practice yesterday, I am not sure about today but they did say that they are still going to ease him into it. Getting his timing with Flacco down is going to take some time.

I think Elam is done in Baltimore now. He may have been "coming on" but too little too late with this injury.IMO

[rmcjacket23]

  4 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

I didn't really see the point in putting Urban on the designated list before Week#1 - and I don't see the point in doing the same with Elam. The designated tag is pretty precious, as you can only use it once per season... Let's suppose Flacco gets injured Week #5, and is projected to have to miss 4-5 weeks... or Suggs... or Weddle... without the designated tag you either have to IR them or keep them on the active roster, taking up a precious roster spot in vain during that span... Just rmember how good it was that when Ray Lewis went down in the middle of the 2012 season, the designated tag was still available, so he could be stashed on it until the playoffs...

anybody from the IR list can be the designated to return guy as long as he starts the season on the IR list.

Yes, but only ONE person can do that. You don't have to designate ahead of time, but as others have said, if a starting caliber player ends up going on IR with say a 6-8 week injury early in the season, he's probably going to be the preferred person to designate as "return" over somebody like Elam.

The only way I see Elam coming back is if he recovers relatively quickly AND we have no other key injuries to starting players that could return later in the season.

[OUravensfan]

5 hours ago, nj_ravens said:

@crazyboutravens

1) Our head coach is a special teams coach. Of course they are talking about the return.

2) We were the #1 ranked special teams unit last year. Of course they want to follow that up.

3) Kickoffs and punts are not obsolete (yet), they are still part of the game, and therefore they must be practiced.

4) Field position matters. Giving your opponent a short field and slows them from getting points, and gives us a better chance of getting points on our next drive. Likewise, if we have a good return game, we can try get at least 3 on every drive because we have the best kicker in the game.

5) Muffed punts. Do I need to say more? We need players who can cleanly field the ball AND provide a spark.

6) 2012 Jacoby Jones says "Hey ,remember me?" ...the spark he provided on returns was invaluable to that team's success.

Until they get rid of the return we cannot ignore it, and to suggest worrying about those things is not "important" is simply naive.

Also the new touchback rule should de-incentivize kickers from nuking their kick offs leading to more return opportunities

[rossihunter2]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yes, but only ONE person can do that. You don't have to designate ahead of time, but as others have said, if a starting caliber player ends up going on IR with say a 6-8 week injury early in the season, he's probably going to be the preferred person to designate as "return" over somebody like Elam.

The only way I see Elam coming back is if he recovers relatively quickly AND we have no other key injuries to starting players that could return later in the season.

I don't think anyone's arguing with that, especially given that he didn't get the designation last year when they had to pre-announce it