[News] Ravens Preseason Stock Watch vs. Indianapolis Colts

[jravens1313]

JUDON is a BEAST! i feel real comfortable with him coming in to spell SUGGS and DOOM coming off injury,i thought we'd have to sign another pass rusher to do that,but not now!

It is amazing we got him in the 5th Round. His traits of size/speed/athleticism compare very similar to Suggs. Judon's motor is shown even in his DII tape chasing guys down and getting after the QB. We have a healthy rotation of rushers with Suggs, Doom, McPhee, Correa, and Judon. Good luck QBs.

[Ravenous_Ravens]

i'll be ridiculed for saying this i'm sure,but JOSH JOHNSON is a better back up than MALLETT,this is just based on only watching his read and react time,let alone his wheels when knowing a play is breaking down and his arm streangth and he's only been in our system 1 camp? personally i would feel more comfortable if JOE went down only if just for a change of pace guy,i said this after the first game and he only looked better.

Watching Josh Johnson reminded me of when Tyrod Taylor was the backup. Either way I cannot see the Ravens keeping 2 backup QB's, so the question will be how close the competition is. Mallet obviously uses up more contract dollars, so I would guess he will need to stand out in some way to ensure he keeps him position or else Johnson would make more sense, assuming you are getting roughly equal production from both.

[fusuymada]

i'll be ridiculed for saying this i'm sure,but JOSH JOHNSON is a better back up than MALLETT,this is just based on only watching his read and react time,let alone his wheels when knowing a play is breaking down and his arm streangth and he's only been in our system 1 camp? personally i would feel more comfortable if JOE went down only if just for a change of pace guy,i said this after the first game and he only looked better.

I think he is a completely different QB than Mallett and I think the decision for backup QB is what the philosophy at One Winning Drive is. Do you want a stand up in the pocket QB, like Joe, to maintain consistency for the players around the QB, or do you go with a complete change of pace knowing the opponents game planning will be for a pocket QB. History has shown the Ravens like those quick, change of pace QB's with Troy Smith and Tyrod Taylor so that may bode well for Johnson. The main thing I notice is the temperament of each of them when things are not going well. Mallett is head down, frustrated, angry person where Johnson is more interactive, high energy and upbeat. To me that gives Johnson the edge. Maybe it is personal but Mallett just rubs me the wrong way, like he is one Ryan Leaf outburst away from his old self. Just my opinion.

[Ravenous_Ravens]

  12 hours ago, Ravenous_Ravens said:

  12 hours ago, ravens4life86 said:

Super impressive...Judon climbing depth charts,bthis guy has been everywhere last 2 weeks.

Josh Johnson..now pressing Mallet as back up Qb
Moore&Butler tonight as WRs
Redzone D still strong, and creating Turnovers Weddle&Levine

Not so great...1st team D, regardless no sizzle&Dum getting Marched on 2 straight weeks
Center position getting pushed around in run game on Oline, and not as many holes tonight

19-18 win

Just wanted to point out or call to remembrance the fact the Ravens use vanilla game plans in the preseason. This means the D getting marched on is not a huge concern. If this was a full on game strategy being deployed and executed as it was, then yes you would have a valid point.

Vanilla play calling means basic plays, not plays that designed to take advantage of certain line ups or schemes, tendencies, etc.

Have seen and heard this comment numerous times as an explanation for the performance of Raven starters in the 2 preseason games. Be mindful the Panthers and Colts have done the same, no game planning and vanilla offensive and defensive plays. With that in mind the evidence is clear this Ravens team is getting beat and beat rather easily, particularly on defense. Sure the Ravens have won both games but I dare say both Rivera and Pagano were more pleased with their ones performances than Harbaugh has been with his.

Getting a few starters back and game planning for the regular season will improve the Ravens but that can be said for the Ravens opponents as well. Here's to hoping the Ravens returning starters and the game planning is that much better than the opponents. It would be great to have nice season this year but an exponential uptick in performance is required between now the start of the season for it to be realized.

Well first off, Harbaugh has not even had all his ones back on the field to play. So I can agree with Pagano and Riviera being more content with their starters, in that sense.

Pagano has also coached here in Baltimore and understands what Harb's tendencies are to a degree.

You say the team is getting beat, yet winning?....

Every game you ever play, the opponent is going to make plays. The defenses job is to limit that and if possible prevent it altogether, but that is extremely difficult even for the best of the best defenses.

Generally speaking, offenses come out of the gate in the lead to start a season (preseason included). Why? Because offense is about timing mostly, as you have the upper hand knowing where each play is going. Defense IMHO usually takes about til week 4-6 to really gel the way that is necessary and clean up communications. Run defense should have been a BIT better vs Colts.

I have played football and this is pretty common at every level and has more to do with the dynamics of the game itself.

If you want to go to the Harbs was even upset, well yea that is his job to critique and nitpick in order to become as good as possible. A coach that is satisfied is a coach that isn't coaching up his team to its potential.

For the number of games lost by a single score last season, I cannot fathom why so many are so reluctant to think this team is much better from last season. I firmly believe that the additions to this team can make up the difference of either preventing those 7 points or gaining those 7 points.

[designermaryland]

What the first 2 preseasons games has shown is that the Ravens secondary should have been more of a priority in the draft and free agency. All camp we heard about KC. How he can play everywhere, but where are the splash plays? Ravens, again, used a second round pick on a guy that will see limited time on the field. Orr looks better at ILB and Judon looks better as a pass rusher
Also, Powers looks lost in the slot as CB. Can Pees come up with a scheme to cover crossing routes cause that's open all night against the Ravens. The PR machine must be at work mentioning Elam who still looks like he can't tackle or cover. Brooks, Price and Levine have played better.

agree with all you said. i strongly dislike the ravens draft philosophy and think they waste their early round picks on guys who sit on the pine until it's too late to develop them. if you clearly have mosley, orr, suggs, dumerville, mclellan, why are you even looking at a LB when you have glaring needs elsewhere. i guess if you whiff, it wont matter either way, but I feel like they employ a whimpy conservative draft strategy. you cannot be hiding your first and second rounders on injured reserve or ST every year and expect to win.

[designermaryland]

i am sure the coaching staff will downplay the results, but this looks like exactly the same team we put out there last year. Defense with no pass rush or pressure, secondary looks clueless and cant tackle. The only reason we stiffen in the red zone, is because the pass coverage is so much easier with no deep threat. Otherwise they would just keep passing and ripping the d to shreds. Offense hardly effective running and 3 and out on the first few possessions if not for a gift penalty. no speed or different pace routes. i guess you can't give your entire playbook away in the preseason, but the execution does not look all that good.

[bigcatfrank1]

I would agree that Elam is making the biggest case for a player who looked to be on the outside looking in. Judon, Forsett, West are all going to make this team. Butler and Moore depend on many factors.... Perriman being a big part of the scenario. Lets put Perriman on the PUP for now, that frees up one WR position, I think Bulter edges out Moore so far. Next lets look at the possible WR from top down- SS Sr., Wallace, Aiken, are locks. From there Campanaro, Matthews, Moore and Bultler look to be the next group in line. Renolds and Daniel Brown look to be last on the list. Big Questions- Perriman? So do the Ravens try to stash a WR on the Practice squad? Can they afford to go with 7 starting WR or sick with 6? Campanaro stays healthy?

[bigcatfrank1]

  4 hours ago, dirtybird66 said:

i'll be ridiculed for saying this i'm sure,but JOSH JOHNSON is a better back up than MALLETT,this is just based on only watching his read and react time,let alone his wheels when knowing a play is breaking down and his arm streangth and he's only been in our system 1 camp? personally i would feel more comfortable if JOE went down only if just for a change of pace guy,i said this after the first game and he only looked better.

Watching Josh Johnson reminded me of when Tyrod Taylor was the backup. Either way I cannot see the Ravens keeping 2 backup QB's, so the question will be how close the competition is. Mallet obviously uses up more contract dollars, so I would guess he will need to stand out in some way to ensure he keeps him position or else Johnson would make more sense, assuming you are getting roughly equal production from both.

Mallet played against 60-80 % starters, Johnson played against less than 50% and bubble players...big difference. I agree that Johnson looks good but he is a much different QB than Joe Flacco, Mallet is on the team to come in ONLY for one reason- If Joe goes down. He is mainly to practice with the back-ups as Joe, not be the starting QB. I don't see the Ravens making the change at this point. Also Mallet executed a TD just like Jonson did last night, 3 dropped passes also didn't help. Must clean those up, Flacco cant even change that. The receivers MUST catch the ball !!

[bioLarzen]

Anyone knows why Victor Ochi was used so sparingly in the first two games? He's healthy, and what other time would be perfect to try him than the pre-season??? I've read a speculation that Harbaugh wants to hide them from the scouts' eyes so he won't have much of game tape and so he can get him back on the PS - but I guess that's really just pure speculation.

[bioLarzen]

8 hours ago, JamesA119 said:

JJ is better than Mallet. So what does say about the organization? I don't see them cutting him in favor of Mallet.

That Johnson is better than Mallett is your opinion, which you are entitled to. As for mine - I don't see Mallett cut - he was as good as Johnson, mostly against better guys. And I certainly don't see 3 QB's on the final roster - we easily have 53 more important players than the backup of the backup QB... I simply don't see any chance of that.

[bioLarzen]

4 hours ago, dirtybird66 said:

JUDON is a BEAST! i feel real comfortable with him coming in to spell SUGGS and DOOM coming off injury,i thought we'd have to sign another pass rusher to do that,but not now!

The main "problem" with Judon, according to various camp-reports and pre-draft analyses, is that his weaponry is very shallow at this point. He has a bull rush that seems to be on the verge of NFL-ready, but not a lot more. He has all the talent and body, but he has to learn a huge lot to be able to capitalize on these on a regular basis. He couldn't make it in the NFL with only his bull rush - but he will learn everything he has to, and may very well be the successor of Suggs in a season or two. He definitely seems to have the promise.

Edited August 21, 2016 by bioLarzen

[bigcatfrank1]

  7 hours ago, law215 said:

What the first 2 preseasons games has shown is that the Ravens secondary should have been more of a priority in the draft and free agency. All camp we heard about KC. How he can play everywhere, but where are the splash plays? Ravens, again, used a second round pick on a guy that will see limited time on the field. Orr looks better at ILB and Judon looks better as a pass rusher
Also, Powers looks lost in the slot as CB. Can Pees come up with a scheme to cover crossing routes cause that's open all night against the Ravens. The PR machine must be at work mentioning Elam who still looks like he can't tackle or cover. Brooks, Price and Levine have played better.

agree with all you said. i strongly dislike the ravens draft philosophy and think they waste their early round picks on guys who sit on the pine until it's too late to develop them. if you clearly have mosley, orr, suggs, dumerville, mclellan, why are you even looking at a LB when you have glaring needs elsewhere. i guess if you whiff, it wont matter either way, but I feel like they employ a whimpy conservative draft strategy. you cannot be hiding your first and second rounders on injured reserve or ST every year and expect to win.

Weddle and Webb saw limited time, they will on the field 60%. Brooks, and Elam look to be behind them. Levine will play nickle and dime a lot he will also be in the LB rotation. CB's look to be the weakest. Price, Wright and Powers all made mistakes last night. Again Jimmy Smith didn't play much but we didn't hear his name so that is a good thing. CB- Canady, Davis and Arrignton will be looked at very seriously for the next 2 weeks.
LB's are set- Suggs, Doom, Orr, Mosley, Correa, Z Smith, McClellan and Judon make this team. Most didnt play last night.
Levine can play SAM, Dime and Nickle he is also a great special teams player.
I see the CB being the biggest bubble.

[bigcatfrank1]

Well it's only 2 preseason games but .... I am NOT impressed. Our D and secondary is got major holes in it, Mallet is not the 2nd best Qb on this team in my opinion, I do not see what all of the running back hype has been about as to me they look slow and unsure where they are going with the ball and West consistently turns his back instead of lowering his shoulder. O line has not consistently opened the holes either.

Makes you wonder what Mr. Garret and Mink have been watching because the over hyped players have shown very little so far OH and where is Correra, he has been billed as Mighty Mouse on here but I from what I have seen he closer to a flea. Harbs and company have there work cut out with this group IMO.

How can you say that? The Ravens are looking at almost every 2nd and 3rd back up that they can. The starters are playing very, very sparingly if at all.
The problems last night were the O line, CB's and the back up WR's.
Mallet will be the back up QB. West will make this team, he is carrying most of the load because they want to see what he has. They are guarding Allen so he stays healthy. Forsett, Allen, West and Dixon will be the RB.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

Well it's only 2 preseason games but .... I am NOT impressed. Our D and secondary is got major holes in it, Mallet is not the 2nd best Qb on this team in my opinion, I do not see what all of the running back hype has been about as to me they look slow and unsure where they are going with the ball and West consistently turns his back instead of lowering his shoulder. O line has not consistently opened the holes either.

Makes you wonder what Mr. Garret and Mink have been watching because the over hyped players have shown very little so far OH and where is Correra, he has been billed as Mighty Mouse on here but I from what I have seen he closer to a flea. Harbs and company have there work cut out with this group IMO.

Be really careful giving an honest listing of what you think around here. I've been posting a lot of the same things you've stated and boy am I public enemy #1.

I saw the same things you did. I think while Mallett and Johnson have both been pretty good, the offense seems to click better with Johnson and he's made a lot of good throws. He also can keep drives alive with his feet which is something Mallet and Joe really can't do.

I wasn't as impressed with T-West last year as others were. He looked pretty good in week one, but he tried to be too cute this game. Granted the O-line (which you also pointed out) didn't do a great job, but even when a little something was there, West tried to do too much with it.

I see problems on the defense too. Granted everyone is running vanilla stuff so there is only so much you can take away from things, but...you want to see your guys winning on their plays. We don't have much of a pass rush at all coming from the guys we expected it to come from against the starters. Chris Carter was a star in the first pre season game, a guy that has been around for a number of years and was never anything more than a part time special teamer. That's what happens against third stringers.

I made a comment about Correa as well. I haven't seen him show up at all in any game yet and I got destroyed for it. Somebody telling me he's made multiple tackles and pass break ups. Well, according to this own site's stats, Correa has a total of one tackle....so how is what somebody is claiming possible? I also am not going wild over the fact that Matt Elam is actually tackling people sometimes.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

  9 hours ago, objective view said:

Well it's only 2 preseason games but .... I am NOT impressed. Our D and secondary is got major holes in it, Mallet is not the 2nd best Qb on this team in my opinion, I do not see what all of the running back hype has been about as to me they look slow and unsure where they are going with the ball and West consistently turns his back instead of lowering his shoulder. O line has not consistently opened the holes either.

Makes you wonder what Mr. Garret and Mink have been watching because the over hyped players have shown very little so far OH and where is Correra, he has been billed as Mighty Mouse on here but I from what I have seen he closer to a flea. Harbs and company have there work cut out with this group IMO.

I'm thinking (and I could be wrong) that the running backs problem was more of a O-line problem. For a running back to run thru a hole there has to BE a hole.

While it is true that the O-line stunk up the joint, Dixon was making the most of his carries and getting more than what was blocked for him. West kept trying to cut back even when there was nothing there. Instead of getting 1-2 yards by just going ahead, he would lose yards or pick up nothing by trying to be Barry Sanders.

[January J]

7 hours ago, Ravenous_Ravens said:

Well first off, Harbaugh has not even had all his ones back on the field to play. So I can agree with Pagano and Riviera being more content with their starters, in that sense.

Pagano has also coached here in Baltimore and understands what Harb's tendencies are to a degree.

You say the team is getting beat, yet winning?....

Every game you ever play, the opponent is going to make plays. The defenses job is to limit that and if possible prevent it altogether, but that is extremely difficult even for the best of the best defenses.

Generally speaking, offenses come out of the gate in the lead to start a season (preseason included). Why? Because offense is about timing mostly, as you have the upper hand knowing where each play is going. Defense IMHO usually takes about til week 4-6 to really gel the way that is necessary and clean up communications. Run defense should have been a BIT better vs Colts.

I have played football and this is pretty common at every level and has more to do with the dynamics of the game itself.

If you want to go to the Harbs was even upset, well yea that is his job to critique and nitpick in order to become as good as possible. A coach that is satisfied is a coach that isn't coaching up his team to its potential.

For the number of games lost by a single score last season, I cannot fathom why so many are so reluctant to think this team is much better from last season. I firmly believe that the additions to this team can make up the difference of either preventing those 7 points or gaining those 7 points.

All very good points and I agree.

3 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

Anyone knows why Victor Ochi was used so sparingly in the first two games? He's healthy, and what other time would be perfect to try him than the pre-season??? I've read a speculation that Harbaugh wants to hide them from the scouts' eyes so he won't have much of game tape and so he can get him back on the PS - but I guess that's really just pure speculation.

That's an interesting theory...I've wondered the same thing. Haven't seem him at all . But really it makes no sense ..,regardless teams scouts from all over the league already knew about him so they already have tape on him...and why wouldn't Harbs want to give him a shot to see if he could beat somebody out? I mean I guess it could be plausible bc JUDON has really shined and maybe Harbs just knew in camp that Ochi had no shot in beating out judon and knew that was his only chance of getting him on the roster bc of the numbers game . So if judon goes down with an injury income Ochi. It's a long shot and a bit far fetched but you never know. And not giving him some in game action is bad for his growth as a player regardless. Catch 22

[Maryland]

Anyone knows why Victor Ochi was used so sparingly in the first two games? He's healthy, and what other time would be perfect to try him than the pre-season??? I've read a speculation that Harbaugh wants to hide them from the scouts' eyes so he won't have much of game tape and so he can get him back on the PS - but I guess that's really just pure speculation.

I'm thinking that theory definitely has some merit. I've read on other forums that Ochi is doing well in practice, certainly well enough to get some playing time. He was a player who definitely should have been drafted, so no doubt some teams will want him regardless.