Pass Rush Potential

[JoeyFlex5]

expectations tempered, because it was just preseason, but...

ZDS looks good, i cant wait to see how he progresses through the year, he looks like the legit edge rusher we have lacked for a while and is a 3 down player. 

Judon played a much better game than i expected, and did it against the 2s, so he might not be too far off, he isnt some explosive dynamic presence, but he just seems pretty solid, plays physical and could be a nice piece to have out there when we wanna really dial up the pressure, let him plow into the edge full strength while the faster guys take advantage.

Correa got some pressure but didnt finish, showed that first step we all know hes famous for, but struggled when engaged as expected, with blitz packages he can be a serious threat. 

willie henry was unblockable at times, but you can tell hes too inconsistent, if he can show his burst and power on all snaps like he was doing in the 2nd half tonight, he can be a force at the DE/DT spot in our 3-4 front, and also in our nickel packages. 

jernigan is an up and down guy and we havent seen or heard from him in quite some time, but we know what he can be, and he showed up to camp visibly in the best shape hes ever been in, looking lean and strong, if that commitment has finally found itself then he could be a potential pro bowl guy racking up sacks from the interior. 

suggs and doom need to play like starters, they dont need to be world beaters, they may be able to catch some real breaks by getting favorable matchups on nickel/blitz packages, and they will have a solid rotation behind them to keeep the legs fresh. 

so, with all of this, how do we use it? if suggs and doom are our top 2 edge rushers, where does ZDS come into play? hes a downhill player so stunting him may be a bit of a waste, do you run him side by side with suggs or doom? would he be inside or out? would he be the block-eater or the primary rusher? do you line him up inside at 5t on occasion? what do you do with guys like judon and correa when our starters are on the field? this is a lot of potential we have here, if we need to dial up the pressure by getting all of our pass rushers on the field at once, how do we even do that? pees will have his hands full this year trying to use this roster to its fullest potential, lets hope he makes it work.

[Jacquouille]

Rotation man. You can't have them all on the field at the same time, but having ZDS and Judon/McClellan on first downs helps keep our vets fresh. Then on passing downs you dial up the usual: 

I'm convinced ZDS can work very well on the inside, with BWill and TJ, you add Suggs and Doom, with Correa and Mosley, plus a S blitz if you're completely insane in your head and you dare to use your S to pressure the QB, and you have it. Pretty simple but that will be awful for opposing teams.

Getting Correa on the edge may be a bit harder but on first downs it's not hard, and I've seen us run a lot of 4-3 yesterday, so as a 3rd LB you can put him right besides the DE (ZDS usually)

Edited August 12, 2016 by Jacquouille

[trevorsteadman]

Correa looked alright in coverage and in the pass rush but never noticed because the ball was really never around him. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I think the potential of the pass rush completely hinges on Suggs. If he's Sizzle, we can be scary good.

If he can no longer lead the unit - its a huge question mark.

If ZDS can be that 3rd guy, i think we have one of the best pass rushes in the league because i think he's going to put up 10+ sacks and a ton of pressures this season. But, if Suggs isnt his usual self than Doom isnt as effective and that means our top 2 pass rushers are probably in the 8-12 sack range max with no one else really getting above 6. Obviously its pressure that matters more, but sacks are usually a decent representation of that.

So, if Suggs can be our all-around guy - beast against the run and requiring a double team while still putting up 10-12 sacks, Zadarius will beat 1on1s all day and be in that range too, and Doom can be the passing down guy where he thrives and skys the limit there. That could be a top trio in the league.

And then, anything you get from Jernigan, Henry, Urban, Judon, Correa, maybe even Carter or Ochi - its just gravy at that point.

The interior is big too. If we can get 2 guys that can slash and get in the QBs lap quickly, it just makes everything so much easier. Henry could provide returns quicker than originally thought. He already put that elite burst on display multiple times last night. That first run play he blew up, down near their goal line... he was in the backfield so quick, seemed like there wasnt even a lineman in his way.

Henry could be special. This draft is already looking really, really solid.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

btw we've made a lot of the offensive skill positions - the depth and how its tough to really tell who's gonna make it and whos gonna get cut from that bubble... and so far most everyones been in agreement, other than maybe 1 spot at OLB... the Dline and OLB have been unanimous. 

But, last night Chris Carter and Michael Pierce may have put a wrench in that. They were arguably the 2 best defensive players on the field consistently. Carter was in the back field constantly, and really disruptive off the edge, and Pierce was collapsing the pocket and routinely causing problems. Blew up a few plays before they started and hurried a bunch more.

Thats why i said last night, that game provided more questions than answers for me in terms of the roster. It was already hard trying to figure out where you get enough spots to keep 4 TEs, 4 RBs, FB and the WRs you want while thinking the DL was set in stone with BWill, Jernigan, Guy, Davis, Henry, Urban. Based purely on last night (and i know thats a terrible way to evaluate roster decisions) Pierce would make this team above everyone that played imo.

And Carter may have been the best edge player outside of ZDS. I mean, Judon and McLellan looked good - dont get me wrong, i think theyre roster locks - but if these 2 put a couple more performances on like last night, theyre going to make it very difficult to cut them, or theyre going to make another team very happy come roster trimming time.

Edited August 12, 2016 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[Edgar]

1 hour ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Carter and Pierce for sure make this team based solely on last night. If Carter was our 2nd rounder this place would be blowing up with excitement.

Could something have just clicked with this guy? Pierce could very easily cost Carl Davis his job. Tremendous push all night. 

For a small school guy, Judon appears very confident, physical and very capable. Love the interaction between him and Za'Darius.

Ochi in what I think was his sole snap managed to get pressure.

Looks like we will have to do bring a vet in at DE. 

 

[Jacquouille]

Pierce really reminded me of B-Will

[GrimCoconut]

I think Pierce makes this team. As for Carter, he will be hard to cut after last night. I suspect he'll get more snaps going forward because no way do we cut him if he can produce with the 1s. I think he's the same guy that went to PIT right before we took McPhee in the 2011 Draft. I remember really wanting him [Carter] before we took McPhee. Obviously McPhee worked out very well for us, but I do love what I see from Carter. 

[JoeyFlex5]

8 hours ago, trevorsteadman said:

Correa looked alright in coverage and in the pass rush but never noticed because the ball was really never around him. 

Weird. I thought I saw him around the ball quite a bit. Not making the play but certainly being in the area often. Maybe I saw wrong...

[Filmstudy]

On 8/12/2016 at 9:16 AM, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I think the potential of the pass rush completely hinges on Suggs. If he's Sizzle, we can be scary good.

If he can no longer lead the unit - its a huge question mark.

If ZDS can be that 3rd guy, i think we have one of the best pass rushes in the league because i think he's going to put up 10+ sacks and a ton of pressures this season. But, if Suggs isnt his usual self than Doom isnt as effective and that means our top 2 pass rushers are probably in the 8-12 sack range max with no one else really getting above 6. Obviously its pressure that matters more, but sacks are usually a decent representation of that.

So, if Suggs can be our all-around guy - beast against the run and requiring a double team while still putting up 10-12 sacks, Zadarius will beat 1on1s all day and be in that range too, and Doom can be the passing down guy where he thrives and skys the limit there. That could be a top trio in the league.

And then, anything you get from Jernigan, Henry, Urban, Judon, Correa, maybe even Carter or Ochi - its just gravy at that point.

The interior is big too. If we can get 2 guys that can slash and get in the QBs lap quickly, it just makes everything so much easier. Henry could provide returns quicker than originally thought. He already put that elite burst on display multiple times last night. That first run play he blew up, down near their goal line... he was in the backfield so quick, seemed like there wasnt even a lineman in his way.

Henry could be special. This draft is already looking really, really solid.

I like reducing Suggs' snaps as a means to keep him fresh, but the problem I see is that the Ravens may need his run-stopping skills more than his pass rush.

Do you think Suggs could accept a run-stopping, 2-down role if that's how he fits best? 

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, Filmstudy said:

I like reducing Suggs' snaps as a means to keep him fresh, but the problem I see is that the Ravens may need his run-stopping skills more than his pass rush.

Do you think Suggs could accept a run-stopping, 2-down role if that's how he fits best? 

suggs is gonna be a 3 down player until he is no longer able to, at least thats how i would think it goes, i dont see him backing down from his job, he takes pride in being a full time linebacker. 

and when the day comes that he begins to slow down, i think hes best in a pass rushing role, because its less strain on the body, he stays fresh easier, and when he can pin his ears back hes a very good pass rusher, even if his burst has been sapped. hes smarter than any LT he faces, and im confident of that, he can win the chess match if he gets to come in on every long distance down and go to work on a LT in a pure pass rush scenario.

[Edgar]

What are some of the favorite four man fronts on 3rd and throwing?

Dumervil, jernigan, Henry,Suggs

Dumervil, jernigan, Suggs, carter/Correa

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, Edgar said:

What are some of the favorite four man fronts on 3rd and throwing?

Dumervil, jernigan, Henry,Suggs

Dumervil, jernigan, Suggs, carter/Correa

The first one. With correa at Will

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

On August 14, 2016 at 4:33 AM, Filmstudy said:

I like reducing Suggs' snaps as a means to keep him fresh, but the problem I see is that the Ravens may need his run-stopping skills more than his pass rush.

Do you think Suggs could accept a run-stopping, 2-down role if that's how he fits best? 

I think he'll have a lower snap count - and that's a good thing - but I don't think he would take kindly to being primarily a run down player. 

McLellan and ZDS both looked good setting the edge against the run so Suggs could possibly get spelled here and there even on early downs. 

Until proven otherwise, I think he's still one of our best pass rushers, and makes others around him better when in that role. 

Putting him into more of a rotation I think is a good thing and will help him be more consistently disruptive... But I don't think it will necessarily be a situational thing. 

I still see him being used as a 3 down player... Just not necessarily a 3 down, every possession player. On early downs I see a rotation of Suggs/ZDS, Suggs/McLellan, and ZDS/McLellan and a whole slew of combinations with Suggs, Doom, ZDS, Judon, Correa and maybe Carter on passing downs mixing up 3 and 4 man fronts to get more of those guys on the field.

But I think Suggs prides himself too much on being a QB hunter and those rivalries with Big Ben and Brady to accept a diminished role rushing the passer. And that's a good thing bc if he's asked to take a reduced role I think he'll force himself back into the equation with his play. Too fierce a competitor not to.