The good bad and ugly Pre-Season 1

[jazz1988]

G

17 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I agree but that's exactly why I have him on my list of talented guys who will fall victim to the numbers. Simply put Levine isn't good enough as a ST player only to warrant a roster spot on "this" team because the 2016 Ravens seem really deep on paper. The Ravens have allowed much better ST players than Levine to walk. I think people put way too much stock into how much Harbs loves his ST unit. Yes he's a ST guy but the Ravens produce ST guys like Levine also every single year. 

Still even with all that if Levine is the front runner at line backer in dime packages it would seem like he will make the team.The Ravens need to make sure to not only have insurance just in case a guy like Zach Orr isn't capable to cover certain running backs and tight ends on passing down but they really need to mix things up coverage wise and guy like Levin can help in that area.

[Ravensfan23]

2 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

G

Still even with all that if Levine is the front runner at line backer in dime packages it would seem like he will make the team.The Ravens need to make sure to not only have insurance just in case a guy like Zach Orr isn't capable to cover certain running backs and tight ends on passing down but they really need to mix things up coverage wise and guy like Levin can help in that area.

At this point the Dime S/LB position is a camp position. There is nothing concrete that says the Ravens will utilize that position in the regular season. Imo Levine is the front runner because he was the only Safety on the roster who was without a position and at least had enough talent to have a good showing in that role. You're not going to take either Brooks or Elam away from a true safety position because you want them to continue to progress while it seems the light is coming on for those guys. As I've said before the Ravens really like Levine and i'm sure this position was put into the offensive to give him a great shot at making the team, but the question becomes do the Ravens have the luxury to carry a "insurance" player. It's equivalent to saying the Ravens should carry both Camp and Reynolds because one guy can be insurance just in case the other is hurt. It'd be nice to do but the Ravens just don't have the roster numbers for that this year. imo that LB/S role is gonna have a be a large part of the defense or Levine will be cut and the Ravens will carry some guy on the PS who could field that role without taking up a roster spot. 

We're talking about a role that's only being practiced with the 3rd team defense. Doesn't sound like a big part of the defense to me. 

[BmoreBird22]

6 hours ago, Newsome is Awesome said:

Understanding this is not about Revis, but rather players we hope can become Revis, he started all 16 games as a rookie and had a career year in regard to tackles.  One could certainly make a case that his first year may have been the 2nd best year he has ever had.

Keenan Lewis has had trouble staying sound.

Talent usually shows itself to coaches quite early.  Sometimes they hang onto guys hoping to find it.

http://www.nfl.com/player/darrellerevis/2495717/gamelogs?season=2007

http://www.nfl.com/player/darrellerevis/2495717/gamelogs?season=2009

Tackles for a corner are not a succesful measure for how well they played. In fact, I'd rather they not have many tackles at all.

Revis's 2009 season is the single best seasom ever by a corner and he had 37 less tackles

[Newsome is Awesome]

12 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Tackles for a corner are not a succesful measure for how well they played. In fact, I'd rather they not have many tackles at all.

 

Maybe........maybe not, but discussing Revis's rookie year, (2007), 87 tackles was a career high

16 games started out of 16 games played may not be a successful measure either. They could have started him because they had no one else, but with hindsight that would appear a stretch.

3 Interceptions may not be a successful measure.

17 passes defensed in those games may not be a successful measure, but it was third best in his career to date.

Whether Revis 2009 season was the best CB season ever is debatable, but it's pretty hard to argue that in 2007 he didn't show immense talent right out of the box. Applying that to Elam or Lewis, well Elam for example had 1 pass defensed, couldn't tackle and 1 triple clutch INT, that was right at him. However, have to agree our Front Office has not yet given up on Elam or Lewis.

 

Edited August 16, 2016 by Newsome is Awesome

[rmw10]

7 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

I think people are over egging his need to be versatile - the coaches love him for special teams and that's how he'll make it. Any play he can contribute on defence is a bonus in their eyes.

To an extent.  While ST will be the main reason he's on this team (and we'll see how much the dime LB position matters), I'm sure the team also loves him because they know that they can plug him into a few places in an emergency situation.  With only 46 players active on gameday, being able to slot into multiple positions carries a pretty heavy value that I think goes unnoticed.

[Jacquouille]

38 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Tackles for a corner are not a succesful measure for how well they played. In fact, I'd rather they not have many tackles at all.

Revis's 2009 season is the single best seasom ever by a corner and he had 37 less tackles

Wasn't there a story about Deion having no tackles?

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, Jacquouille said:

Wasn't there a story about Deion having no tackles?

No, you're thinking of Deion couldn't tackle and didn't like to, but it hardly mattered because he was the original shutdown corner that played like Revis 2009 season all the time.

[rossihunter2]

6 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

We're talking about a role that's only being practiced with the 3rd team defense. Doesn't sound like a big part of the defense to me. 

it may have to begin with, but look at the other players on the field when levine nearly made the int - it looked like he played dime throughout last night from the starters to the 3s so i think it's not that useful to just take into account the one report that he was practicing with arthur brown earlier in camp when that doesnt look like the case anymore

[rmcjacket23]

12 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

I don' I don't get how me mentioning  Kendrick Lewis being traded to The Houston Texans should be considered at the level of me playing Madden  or Fantasy. I gave you a solid reason why Lewis would be a favorite candidate for The Houston Texans in a trade because not only is he a favorite of The Texans defensive coordinator( i proved that) but he also would  be upgrade for them at strong safety... I'm not really concerned about Eric Weddle health and I know Ladarius Webb has health issues but I  haven't heard much news of him getting hurt at all in training camp so far, which is good news in it self because usually even in training camp he misses practice time here and there due him nursing a injury.

 

Fans may dislike Elam and Brooks but it doesn't change the fact that  they are The Ravens first and third rounder . Elam just recently had his best training camp today to go along with his good performance in the last preseason game in which The Ravens played in. As I said before if Elam and Brooks continue to practice and play well especially in Kendrick Lewis absence then I don't see how it's so unbelievable and more to believe that Lewis may be the odd man out which may lead to him being cut or traded.  No general manager ever wants to give up on their first ,second and third round pick and so far Elam and Brooks have not been bad at all in training camp or preseason. What makes you think both can't play just as well as Lewis if call upon to do so along with them bringing more to the defense because their versatility? If The Ravens got a sixth round pick for Lewis then that's a plus because honestly I don't really expect them drafting awhole lot of players next season after they drafted like 11 players this year especially since most of them are expected to make the team. So what ever they could get for Lewis can be use in a trade in next year draft.

Yes, you gave me a reason why the Texans would want Lewis (which I still don't buy at all). What you didn't do is give me a reason why the RAVENS are better off without him. Saying that "well Elam and Brooks are having good camps" isn't really a very good reason. There's at least 60 guys in camp right now who have had multiple articles written about them suggesting they are having great camps... are they all going to make the team? Of course not, and in fact, a decent number of them will not, and they will be cut in favor of players who had worse practices and camps than they did. Why? Because the latter players likely have sufficient game film on them that proves they can play, which not coincidentally, brings us back to the Elam vs Lewis debate.

For starters, I'm not 100% sure they are even competing for the same position. Nobody would expect Lewis to be playing in the box very often, and if Elam is playing the deep third, we are all screwed. He doesn't have the speed or instincts for that.

As such, if Elam is to win a spot on this team, he's likely going to be playing a lot more of the role he did in 2014 as opposed to 2013, which is as a middle of the field coverage player, where he's required to cover TEs or slot WRs, and most importantly, tackle. And that's by far his biggest weakness... fundamentally tackling, especially in space. From that very aspect, in terms of versatility, I'd consider Lewis FAR more versatile than Elam, because we saw what happened when Elam was put in a position to show versatility... it wasn't pretty.

What is clear is that the Ravens have pretty  much publicly told everybody in the last few years that they don't care anymore about draft position. They've cut 4th and 5th rounders within a year of being drafted, and the fact that a guy like Elam is closer to being cut than he is to starting is a pretty good indication of the FO's commitment to him (or lack thereof). Its one thing to play the "he's a first rounder" card after year 1 or even year 2. He's in the final year of his rookie deal, with no option picked up. His draft status officially doesn't matter anymore, and neither does Brooks.

As far as future draft picks, will we take 11 guys next year? Probably not. But we aren't taking 3-4 either. We will have at least 7-8 draft picks like we pretty much always do, which isn't a small number.

[Militant X 1]

47 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

No, you're thinking of Deion couldn't tackle and didn't like to, but it hardly mattered because he was the original shutdown corner that played like Revis 2009 season all the time.

I loved what Deion said in his Hall of Fame speech in response to his critics saying he didn't tackle....

“Many of my naysayers said, ‘You know, Prime didn’t tackle,’” Sanders acknowledged, as he wrapped up his speech. “Since 1989, I’ve tackled every bill my mamma has ever given me. The next time they say, ‘Prime didn’t tackle,’ make sure you let them know, ‘Yes he did.’”

 

[Filmstudy]

1 hour ago, rossihunter2 said:

it may have to begin with, but look at the other players on the field when levine nearly made the int - it looked like he played dime throughout last night from the starters to the 3s so i think it's not that useful to just take into account the one report that he was practicing with arthur brown earlier in camp when that doesnt look like the case anymore

Here are Levine's snaps by drive as we recorded it:

D1-4:  Did not play (ravens played Mosley/Orr in nickel on passing downs)

D5:  Entered with dime on 3rd and 13

D6 (end of half drive): Played all 7 snaps in dime.

D7 (Q3 begins): Played 3/9, 2/11, 3/10, all dime

D8 (Q3):  Played 3/20, dime

D9 (Q3, crossover to Q4): 2/9, 3/9, 2/10, 3/9, 3/3, 3/8, all dime

D10:  Did not play

To summarize:

--He played 18 snaps, every one in obvious passing situations and every one with 6 DBs on the field

--The Ravens didn't use anyone else in the dime role and did not deploy a single 6-DB alignment without Levine

--Levine lined up somewhere in the box on every snap as a traditional dime, but some was at the LoS where he both blitzed and dropped and some was in a position next to the other ILB (Brown), who was calling defensive signals

--He didn't play at all with Zach Orr, who played in both nickel and standard situations over the first 4 drives.  

I think it's important to note the Ravens want to look at a lot of players during a PS game.  It's not surprising Levine got a limited number of snaps, because the Ravens want to see what ILBs Orr, Correa, Onwuasor, Conner can provide in coverage.  What is a little surprising is that no one else was auditioning for the dime role. It's clearly Levine's to lose.

 

Edited August 16, 2016 by Filmstudy

[trevorsteadman]

18 minutes ago, Filmstudy said:

Here are Levine's snaps by drive as we recorded it:

D1-4:  Did not play (ravens played Mosley/Orr in nickel on passing downs)

D5:  Entered with dime on 3rd and 13

D6 (end of half drive): Played all 7 snaps in dime.

D7 (Q3 begins): Played 3/9, 2/11, 3/10, all dime

D8 (Q3):  Played 3/20, dime

D9 (Q3, crossover to Q4): 2/9, 3/9, 2/10, 3/9, 3/3, 3/8, all dime

D10:  Did not play

To summarize:

--He played 18 snaps, every one in obvious passing situations and every one with 6 DBs on the field

--The Ravens didn't use anyone else in the dime role and did not deploy a single 6-DB alignment without Levine

--Levine lined up somewhere in the box on every snap as a traditional dime, but some was at the LoS where he both blitzed and dropped and some was in a position next to the other ILB (Brown), who was calling defensive signals

--He didn't play at all with Zach Orr, who played in both nickel and standard situations over the first 4 drives.  

I think it's important to note the Ravens want to look at a lot of players during a PS game.  It's not surprising Levine got a limited number of snaps, because the Ravens want to see what ILBs Orr, Correa, Onwuasor, Conner can provide in coverage.  What is a little surprising is that no one else was auditioning for the dime role. It's clearly Levine's to lose.

 

Good film watching boss.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

24 minutes ago, Filmstudy said:

Here are Levine's snaps by drive as we recorded it:

D1-4:  Did not play (ravens played Mosley/Orr in nickel on passing downs)

D5:  Entered with dime on 3rd and 13

D6 (end of half drive): Played all 7 snaps in dime.

D7 (Q3 begins): Played 3/9, 2/11, 3/10, all dime

D8 (Q3):  Played 3/20, dime

D9 (Q3, crossover to Q4): 2/9, 3/9, 2/10, 3/9, 3/3, 3/8, all dime

D10:  Did not play

To summarize:

--He played 18 snaps, every one in obvious passing situations and every one with 6 DBs on the field

--The Ravens didn't use anyone else in the dime role and did not deploy a single 6-DB alignment without Levine

--Levine lined up somewhere in the box on every snap as a traditional dime, but some was at the LoS where he both blitzed and dropped and some was in a position next to the other ILB (Brown), who was calling defensive signals

--He didn't play at all with Zach Orr, who played in both nickel and standard situations over the first 4 drives.  

I think it's important to note the Ravens want to look at a lot of players during a PS game.  It's not surprising Levine got a limited number of snaps, because the Ravens want to see what ILBs Orr, Correa, Onwuasor, Conner can provide in coverage.  What is a little surprising is that no one else was auditioning for the dime role. It's clearly Levine's to lose.

 

Precisely my argument for why he's a virtual lock.

Of course, anything can change.. but the dime look is something the team has clearly recognized as a look they want to deploy more in obvious passing situations, and Levine is the only one they've played in that situation.

If it's something they know they're going to do during the regular season (which has been indicated both by the coaching staffs words and actions) you would think they'd put the only guy who they've prepared for the role on the roster.

And of course theres his versatility and experience at multiple positions on the defense - in a year where it looks like they're going to be tight bc of wanting 4 TE's, 4-5 RBs, 6-7 WRs, multiple pass rushers, etc... A guy that can effectively be depth at safety, corner, nickel, LB, and play that dime role is incredibly valuable... as we've seen injuries come out of no where.

 

And then there's ST. Its been a strength of this team for years. Kick coverage is something that looked shaky in the 1st preseason game, and with last years leader Trawick now gone, I think they'll want an experienced leader on the unit. Enter Levine.

Edited August 16, 2016 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[Filmstudy]

21 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

Good film watching boss.

My better half, Maureen, gets credit for this,  She records the entire secondary every play at the game, because it can be difficult/time consuming to get it from broadcast video and can't wait for the all-22.

[757RavensFan]

40 minutes ago, Filmstudy said:

My better half, Maureen, gets credit for this,  She records the entire secondary every play at the game, because it can be difficult/time consuming to get it from broadcast video and can't wait for the all-22.

Does she have a sister?

[Filmstudy]

8 minutes ago, 757RavensFan said:

Does she have a sister?

Thanks.  She's a keeper.  If you're interested, I wrote a piece that includes a description of our Sundays together:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/07/20/road-rsr/the-making-of-filmstudy/

To put it simply, there is no way I could do what I do without her.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Filmstudy

[757RavensFan]

3 minutes ago, Filmstudy said:

Thanks.  She's a keeper.  If you're interested, I wrote a piece that includes a description of our Sundays together:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/07/20/road-rsr/the-making-of-filmstudy/

Great read and thanks for sharing.  I appreciate your input and articles. Keep up the outstanding work!!

[jazz1988]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

 

I specifically said if Elam and Brooks continue to play well in training camp and preseason,Lewis could end up being the odd man out.. Lewis obviously doesn't excel at free safety atleast in Dean Pees scheme which is one of the reason why Ladarius Webb moved  to free safety in the first place.. Matt Elam is faster than Kendrick Lewis which is  quite evident if you look at their 40 time and how they play.

Lewis didn't start playing well last year until he moved to strong safety giving him less deep coverage responsibilities.I honestly don't  understand why the third best safety on the team right now isn't being used in  the dime package role instead of Levine and Elam....It's obvious that The Ravens coaches don't think he has enough speed to do so or maybe they just really love Levine.The concerns about Elam instincts and more is understandable but have you heard about him missing any tackles lately ? Did he miss any tackles in the last preseason game? if Elam fate was already decided base off what he did in 2014 then I think he would have been cut by now.

Reality is this people or players can get better. Elam is making plays that he normally wasn't doing in previous Ravens  training camp. He played with more discipline and awareness in the last preseason game . As I said before if Elam and Brooks continue to impress not only in training camp but also  preseason it's strongly possible Lewis could be the odd man out.

 I can't remember the last time The Ravens cut a 4th rounder but the   fifth rounder they cut last year just was not practicing well at all and seem like a project player. I think the player was offensive linemen Robert Meyers but he may have made the team if Ryan Jensen wasnt playing so well. I think this situation is different from Elam and Brooks vs Lewis case because unlike Meyers, Elam and Brooks are actually making a case to make the team with their play.

I always felt like Elam and Brooks issues have been mental.Now that The Ravens have a respectable secondary coach since Teryl Austin, I think it will benefit  the young safeties alot especially with Eric Weddle around to provide guidance.

Edited August 16, 2016 by jazz1988

[rmcjacket23]

11 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

I specifically said if Elam and Brooks continue to play well in training camp and preseason,Lewis could end up being the odd man out.. Lewis obviously doesn't excel at free safety atleast in Dean Pees scheme which is one of the reason why Ladarius Webb moved  to free safety in the first place.. Matt Elam is faster than Kendrick Lewis which is  quite evident if you look at their 40 time and how they play.

Lewis didn't start playing well last year until he moved to strong safety giving him less deep coverage responsibilities.I honestly don't  understand why the third best safety on the team right now isn't being used in  the dime package role instead of Levine and Elam....It's obvious that The Ravens coaches don't think he has enough speed to do so or maybe they just really love Levine.The concerns about Elam instincts and more is understandable but have you heard about him missing any tackles lately ? Did he miss any tackles in the last preseason game? if Elam fate was already decided base off what he did in 2014 then I think he would have been cut by now.

Reality is this people or players can get better. Elam is making plays that he normally wasn't doing in previous Ravens  training camp. He played with more discipline and awareness in the last preseason game . As I said before if Elam and Brooks continue to impress not only in training camp but also  preseason it's strongly possible Lewis could be the odd man out.

 I can't remember the last time The Ravens cut a 4th rounder but the   fifth rounder they cut last year just was not practicing well at all and seem like a project player. I think the player was offensive linemen Robert Meyers but he may have made the team if Ryan Jensen wasnt playing so well. I think this situation is different from Elam and Brooks vs Lewis case because unlike Meyers, Elam and Brooks are actually making a case to make the team with their play.

I always felt like Elam and Brooks issues have been mental.Now that The Ravens have a respectable secondary coach since Teryl Austin, I think it will benefit  the young safeties alot especially with Eric Weddle around to provide guidance.

1. I don't care about 40 times. I care about speed they show on the field. Again, you're referencing a combine statistic for a player who's now in his 4th year in the league. Haven't many scenarios yet where Matt Elam showed quality speed on game tape.

2. Have I heard of Elam missing tackles recently? Well, no, because I haven't heard of him playing recently. The last time he did, in 2014, he was missing tackles left and right and getting benched for mid and late round safeties.

Have you heard of literally any player who's consistently missing tackles in practice? If you did, they'd probably have been cut already, because tackling in practice isn't hard.

I mean as a fan, do you really want to say a guy has "turned the page" as a tackler because you didn't see him miss any tackles in a preseason game? Really? Is that really want we want to go with from a 4th year player?

3. Can Elam get better? Sure. And he's got a very, very, very, very, very small window of time left to show this. Again, he's in year 4, not in year 1 or 2. 

We drafted John Simon in 2013 4th round, and cut him in 2014.

[Tank 92]

15 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

 

I mean as a fan, do you really want to say a guy has "turned the page" as a tackler because you didn't see him miss any tackles in a preseason game? Really? Is that really want we want to go with from a 4th year player?

3. Can Elam get better? Sure. And he's got a very, very, very, very, very small window of time left to show this. Again, he's in year 4, not in year 1 or 2. 

 

To be fair, and in all practicality(other than contractually) Elam is a third year player.  And to repeat an earlier post, he was  pretty horrible in 2014 while playing out of position, but also pretty respectable as a rookie, when I think he started all 16 games. Not a big stretch to believe that he will improve and be a valuable contributor to the defense this year. 

[rossihunter2]

28 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

To be fair, and in all practicality(other than contractually) Elam is a third year player.  And to repeat an earlier post, he was  pretty horrible in 2014 while playing out of position, but also pretty respectable as a rookie, when I think he started all 16 games. Not a big stretch to believe that he will improve and be a valuable contributor to the defense this year. 

i think a lot of people have vastly overrated elam's rookie season just because of how bad huff was... he was still negatively graded for the whole season and we are pointing to that season as a sign of hope... id love it if he could take the step but he hasnt shown any reason he would

[rmcjacket23]

3 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

To be fair, and in all practicality(other than contractually) Elam is a third year player.  And to repeat an earlier post, he was  pretty horrible in 2014 while playing out of position, but also pretty respectable as a rookie, when I think he started all 16 games. Not a big stretch to believe that he will improve and be a valuable contributor to the defense this year. 

OK, then he's a third year player who only gets three years to prove himself instead of four. Any way you look at it, this is it for him.

And as others have said, "respectable" as a rookie isn't really all the impressive. If you want to be technical about it, he got straight up beat out for the starting SS job by James Ihedigbo, who was a 6th year journeyman UDFA at the time who had a pretty unimpressive resume with two other teams before coming here. He played pretty well in 2013, though hasn't done much sense and is unemployed less than 3 years later at age 32.

Elam got playing time because of how dreadful Michael Huff was. In an actual camp competition with a journeyman, he lost that battle his rookie season. That, in  my opinion, should have been a red flag for everybody to begin with.

Its a bit of a stretch for me, considering the "out of position" he was playing in 2014 is probably going to be a lot closer to the role he will be asked to do in 2016 than the one he did in 2013. He's going to have to play coverage and he's going to have to tackle. Those are two things that won't change regardless of what "position" he plays.

Edited August 16, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[jazz1988]

7 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. I don't care about 40 times. I care about speed they show on the field. Again, you're referencing a combine statistic for a player who's now in his 4th year in the league. Haven't many scenarios yet where Matt Elam showed quality speed on game tape.

2. Have I heard of Elam missing tackles recently? Well, no, because I haven't heard of him playing recently. The last time he did, in 2014, he was missing tackles left and right and getting benched for mid and late round safeties.

Have you heard of literally any player who's consistently missing tackles in practice? If you did, they'd probably have been cut already, because tackling in practice isn't hard.

I mean as a fan, do you really want to say a guy has "turned the page" as a tackler because you didn't see him miss any tackles in a preseason game? Really? Is that really want we want to go with from a 4th year player?

3. Can Elam get better? Sure. And he's got a very, very, very, very, very small window of time left to show this. Again, he's in year 4, not in year 1 or 2. 

We drafted John Simon in 2013 4th round, and cut him in 2014.

Ok if you think Lewis plays faster than Elam on the football field then we just going to have respectfully disagree on that matter.Hmmm  you either didn't watch the last preseason game or you just don't count preseason games as playing  because I'm honestly not getting your statement where you you said you haven't heard of Elam playing recently.

I'm not saying Elam has  turn a  new leaf regarding to his tackling because of preseason games especially one so far . I simply asked you have you heard of him missing any tackles lately. It's kind of like you trying to say preseason games dont carry  any weight and I would say some what yes if we talking about starters but that's not what we talking about .

John Simon is another case where he wasn't practicing well in training camp or playing well in preseason which made it hard for him to make the team.The Ravens were also crowded at the outside linebacker position as well .

I don't know what else I need to say but it's obvious you just don't like Elam and that's fine.

Edited August 17, 2016 by jazz1988

[rossihunter2]

10 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

Ok if you think Lewis plays faster than Elam on the football field then we just going to have respectfully disagree on that matter.Hmmm  you either didn't watch the last preseason game or you just don't count preseason games as playing  because I'm honestly not getting your statement where you you said you haven't heard of Elam playing recently.

I'm not saying Elam has  turn a  new leaf regarding to his tackling because of preseason games especially one so far . I simply asked you have you heard of him missing any tackles lately. It's kind of like you trying to say preseason games dont carry  any weight and I would say some what yes if we talking about starters but that's not what we talking about .

John Simon is another case where he wasn't practicing well in training camp or playing well in preseason which made it hard for him to make the team.The Ravens were also crowded at the outside linebacker position as well .

I don't know what else I need to say but it's obvious you just don't like Elam and that's fine.

The thing is though, that the preseason 1 game film he's just put on is against 2nd and 3rd stringers who won't ever sniff real football, so in all reality the last meaningful game tape he has is from the playoff run where he and rashaad melvin got roasted continuously and he lost his regular season starting job because of tackling issues

 

if Elam earns his way onto the roster then fine but there's no way we get rid of Lewis just so that we make space for him to grow into

[jazz1988]

4 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

OK, then he's a third year player who only gets three years to prove himself instead of four. Any way you look at it, this is it for him.

And as others have said, "respectable" as a rookie isn't really all the impressive. If you want to be technical about it, he got straight up beat out for the starting SS job by James Ihedigbo, who was a 6th year journeyman UDFA at the time who had a pretty unimpressive resume with two other teams before coming here. He played pretty well in 2013, though hasn't done much sense and is unemployed less than 3 years later at age 32.

Elam got playing time because of how dreadful Michael Huff was. In an actual camp competition with a journeyman, he lost that battle his rookie season. That, in  my opinion, should have been a red flag for everybody to begin with.

Its a bit of a stretch for me, considering the "out of position" he was playing in 2014 is probably going to be a lot closer to the role he will be asked to do in 2016 than the one he did in 2013. He's going to have to play coverage and he's going to have to tackle. Those are two things that won't change regardless of what "position" he plays.

Not sure what you saying is really carrying much weight . Jimmy Smith  got beat out by Carry William in his rookie season who actually was a sixth rounder/practice squad player  before being a Raven.Most rookie defensive backs aren't ready to start right away and it takes time  for the game to actually slow down to them.

Jimmy Smith himself didnt start blooming into a great player until his third season in The NFL.James Ihedigbo didnt just play solid for The Ravens but for The Lions as well... Journey man or no journey man , he simply was able to play better than he did for previous teams he had been on before becoming a Raven ,which isn't really all that surprising because The Ravens have been known to get more out of defensive players for years...

[harfordravenfan]

9 hours ago, Filmstudy said:

Thanks.  She's a keeper.  If you're interested, I wrote a piece that includes a description of our Sundays together:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/07/20/road-rsr/the-making-of-filmstudy/

To put it simply, there is no way I could do what I do without her.

Welcome aboard filmstudy. Great read, appreciate you and Maureen's efforts

[BmoreBird22]

23 hours ago, Newsome is Awesome said:

Maybe........maybe not, but discussing Revis's rookie year, (2007), 87 tackles was a career high

16 games started out of 16 games played may not be a successful measure either. They could have started him because they had no one else, but with hindsight that would appear a stretch.

3 Interceptions may not be a successful measure.

17 passes defensed in those games may not be a successful measure, but it was third best in his career to date.

Whether Revis 2009 season was the best CB season ever is debatable, but it's pretty hard to argue that in 2007 he didn't show immense talent right out of the box. Applying that to Elam or Lewis, well Elam for example had 1 pass defensed, couldn't tackle and 1 triple clutch INT, that was right at him. However, have to agree our Front Office has not yet given up on Elam or Lewis.

 

I'm not going to sit here and pretend that Revis wasn't talented, but 2007 was nothing even remotely close to 2009.

Here's a statistical breakdown of 2009 where he shadowed the number one receiver, unlike 2007. http://www.ganggreennation.com/2009/12/28/1222910/revis-island-statistical-break-down

To understand just how dominant that season was, here's a statistical breakdown in terms of offensive output where Peyton Manning, MJD, and Brandon Marshall would have shattered records if they're usage were close to Revis's http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/24/just-how-good-was-revis-last-year/

He was number one in adjusted yards and success rate. Rex Ryan called it the finest season he'd ever seen by a corner.

 

[rmcjacket23]

12 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

Not sure what you saying is really carrying much weight . Jimmy Smith  got beat out by Carry William in his rookie season who actually was a sixth rounder/practice squad player  before being a Raven.Most rookie defensive backs aren't ready to start right away and it takes time  for the game to actually slow down to them.

Jimmy Smith himself didnt start blooming into a great player until his third season in The NFL.James Ihedigbo didnt just play solid for The Ravens but for The Lions as well... Journey man or no journey man , he simply was able to play better than he did for previous teams he had been on before becoming a Raven ,which isn't really all that surprising because The Ravens have been known to get more out of defensive players for years...

Yes, and most fans considered Jimmy Smith to a be a disappointment for that very reason. So why would I consider Matt Elam any different?

I'm fully aware of the struggles that secondary players face in their first year, and I generally have lower expectations than most in that regard. However, in general, I would expect a first round DB to not get beat out by a journeyman FA for that role. I'd expect them to get beat out by a seasoned veteran. 

Though in this case, the actual concern here would be year 2, where the difference between Elam and Jimmy is monumentally different. Would we expect a second year DB to regress and struggle as badly as Elam did in year 2?

 

[rmcjacket23]

12 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

Ok if you think Lewis plays faster than Elam on the football field then we just going to have respectfully disagree on that matter.Hmmm  you either didn't watch the last preseason game or you just don't count preseason games as playing  because I'm honestly not getting your statement where you you said you haven't heard of Elam playing recently.

I'm not saying Elam has  turn a  new leaf regarding to his tackling because of preseason games especially one so far . I simply asked you have you heard of him missing any tackles lately. It's kind of like you trying to say preseason games dont carry  any weight and I would say some what yes if we talking about starters but that's not what we talking about .

John Simon is another case where he wasn't practicing well in training camp or playing well in preseason which made it hard for him to make the team.The Ravens were also crowded at the outside linebacker position as well .

I don't know what else I need to say but it's obvious you just don't like Elam and that's fine.

No, I don't watch preseason games. Because they are preseason games. And if I did watch preseason games, I specifically wouldn't be watching players who I already have two full seasons of actual game film on. That's like watching the preseason and focusing on Marshal Yanda... I could care less what he's doing.

At the end of the day, as a reasonable fan, you've got to look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself this... does ONE preseason game, against largely backup NFL players, of quality play, allow you to completely disregard an entire full NFL regular season against starting players of really bad play?

I can't help you if you think quality play in a preseason game outweighs what we saw for largely two years. As I said earlier, if the coaching staff was so gullible as to put together an entire squad based solely on how they played in the preseason, we'd be cutting a lot of really good players every year and we'd probably struggle to win games every year.

Its a complete package, not what you just saw last week.

[BmoreBird22]

28 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I'm fully aware of the struggles that secondary players face in their first year, and I generally have lower expectations than most in that regard. However, in general, I would expect a first round DB to not get beat out by a journeyman FA for that role. I'd expect them to get beat out by a seasoned veteran.

This is still exactly what happened to Jimmy...