The good bad and ugly Pre-Season 1

[Ravensfan23]

19 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I think it's hard to say right now because we have used it so sparingly in the past.  If it's something we want to commit to going forward though, then the role is hugely important.  I think it's hard to say that he's just a dimeback though, because that dimeback could become something we want to use a lot more often.  Furthermore, I do get the impression that this is a full time switch, as it sounds like he's spent no time at S this offseason.  Levine actually might not be completely comparable to Elam and Brooks in that sense.

It was my impression that Levine is getting reps in true dime defenses, but in the base defense is when he's on the 3rd string with Arthur Brown.  I think @Filmstudy alluded to that but I could be wrong.

While it wouldn't completely surprise me if Levine is gone, I think he's much, much closer to the lock side than he is the cut side.

Yeah I think the disconnect comes from if it's just a Dimeback role or a much larger role. If it's a much larger role I'm all for it. I'd like to see him get more then 18 reps in a preseason if he's gonna be a full time LB in any capacity.

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

And no, that's not what Tyrod is getting. He's getting a 1 year, $9.5M contract from another team that's not the Ravens. He's playing on a series of one year deals. Given that year 2 of that "deal" pays him $27.5M, which would be amongst the highest paid QBs in the league, he's going to have to play really, really, really well to get that. Like significantly better than he did last season.

yeah he's getting a 1 year deal, but i think it's slightly more likely the bills pick up that option if he plays similarly or slightly better than last year - yes its 27.5m in the first year but it essentially becomes like a front-loaded 5 year 85m deal which is like a 17m/year average which is pretty good value for a franchise qb which he would be if they picked up the option

so i dont think he needs to play lights out to get that option picked up - he needs to be more consistent, not miss too many games and keep that bills offence ticking over like a fair few games last year (i mean the bills did have a top 10 offence last year somehow)

but yeah tyrod is getting 9.5m whatever hapens so good for him because that's over an $8m raise for one year

[rossihunter2]

46 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

So let's play Hard Knocks. We're both coach sitting at the table on cut-down day and we have to pound the table for our guys. Looking at the roster, even without names, just looking at the number of starters, backups needed and couple givens we know like the Ravens will keep 4TEs. I count 51 spots accounted for per position. 2QBs 1FB 4RBs 4TEs 6WRs and 8OLs. That's 25 on offense. 1K, 1P, 1LS that's 3 on ST for a total of 28. 6DL, 5OLBs, 3ILBs, 5CBs 4S. That's 23 on defense for a total of 51 spots taken. In my mind right now these are the guys I have fighting for those final 2 spots right now. Henry/KLM, Price, Canady, Camp, Reynolds, Brook/Elam, Levine, and a potential veteran swing OT. What argument would you use to pound the table for Levine to be kept as a Dimeback over these guys?

I'm pretty confident reynolds won't be kept instead of camp at this point, it'll be jeremy butler who makes it instead - reynolds is destined for the ps in my opinion, canady is probably going to phantom ir, levine is a lock pretty much - he is the second best special teams guy on this team behind albert mclellan and now that mclellan is in the running for a starter job, levine becomes even more important on special teams and no way this team keeps more than 8 OL

remember the positions only go so far, at the end of the day the coaches want the best 53 players (that's why you're saying that the ravens will keep 4rbs and 4 tes (that wouldn't make much sense otherwise)) no matter their positions to a certain extent

[rmcjacket23]

8 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

yeah he's getting a 1 year deal, but i think it's slightly more likely the bills pick up that option if he plays similarly or slightly better than last year - yes its 27.5m in the first year but it essentially becomes like a front-loaded 5 year 85m deal which is like a 17m/year average which is pretty good value for a franchise qb which he would be if they picked up the option

so i dont think he needs to play lights out to get that option picked up - he needs to be more consistent, not miss too many games and keep that bills offence ticking over like a fair few games last year (i mean the bills did have a top 10 offence last year somehow)

but yeah tyrod is getting 9.5m whatever hapens so good for him because that's over an $8m raise for one year

Right but the AAV doesn't really matter. IF the Bills were to pick up his 2017 option, his guaranteed money jumps from $9.5M to $40.25M in a single offseason ($50M guaranteed for injury).

Would put him in the top half of the league in terms of guaranteed money. Not sure roughly 3,600 yards and 24 TDs is enough to warrant that type of commitment, particularly when there's no track record of winning attached to it.

Just a hunch on my part, but my tentative guess is that this contract is designed to be moved on from after this season if Tyrod doesn't blow their doors off, which he didn't do in 2015.

[rossihunter2]

2 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Right but the AAV doesn't really matter. IF the Bills were to pick up his 2017 option, his guaranteed money jumps from $9.5M to $40.25M in a single offseason ($50M guaranteed for injury).

Would put him in the top half of the league in terms of guaranteed money. Not sure roughly 3,600 yards and 24 TDs is enough to warrant that type of commitment, particularly when there's no track record of winning attached to it.

Just a hunch on my part, but my tentative guess is that this contract is designed to be moved on from after this season if Tyrod doesn't blow their doors off, which he didn't do in 2015.

i dunno why they'd sign him to a new deal at all then... if he plays just average then they have to not take up the option and he could leave - they could have played him at the old contract and saved themselves a ton of money - essentially they just gave him a raise when they didnt have to unless they are seriously considering taking on the option

doug whaley seriously cant be expecting tyrod to be aaron rodgers

[rossihunter2]

i guess i kind of am forgetting the whole agent aspect of this deal - this is a 9mill 1 year deal that an agent gets to parade around as a 6 year 92 mill deal but i dont think thats enough of a reason surely...

[gtalk12]

I came back only to find out about Judon lol

 

 

How is he looking? If it is anything less than HOF worthy I don't want to hear it lmao

[rmw10]

54 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Yeah I think the disconnect comes from if it's just a Dimeback role or a much larger role. If it's a much larger role I'm all for it. I'd like to see him get more then 18 reps in a preseason if he's gonna be a full time LB in any capacity.

Yeah I'd assume that's where the hang up is here, and I'd expect that to get clearer over the next 2 games.  Preseason game 1 is typically all about scouting player traits so it doesn't surprise me that he entered with the 3rd unit there.  If the really are planning on using him relatively extensively in the dime role, I'd expect you might see more of him in game 2 and especially game 3, when game planning starts to become a little bit of a priority.

[DomMcRaven]

18 minutes ago, gtalk12 said:

I came back only to find out about Judon lol

 

 

How is he looking? If it is anything less than HOF worthy I don't want to hear it lmao

Looked good, but not HoF worthy.........................yet. LMAO!

[JoeyFlex5]

35 minutes ago, gtalk12 said:

I came back only to find out about Judon lol

 

 

How is he looking? If it is anything less than HOF worthy I don't want to hear it lmao

he was easily the best defender on the field for most of his time out there, granted it was against camp bodies, against the 2s he wasnt really noticeable. willie henry did much of the same.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

2 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

The issue isn't where do you list Levine, if that were the case you could just keep him at Safety, there isn't a limit to the amount of players you keep at one position. The issue is, do you have room for a "Dimeback" when you have other DBs just as versatile and you'll have to take away from another position to keep him. 

Now if we're talking about Levine making that permanent switch to LB/S hybrid and that role becoming a big part of the defense then I can see finding a way to get him on the 53, but just as a Dimeback...I don't see it.

So let's play Hard Knocks. We're both coach sitting at the table on cut-down day and we have to pound the table for our guys. Looking at the roster, even without names, just looking at the number of starters, backups needed and couple givens we know like the Ravens will keep 4TEs. I count 51 spots accounted for per position. 2QBs 1FB 4RBs 4TEs 6WRs and 8OLs. That's 25 on offense. 1K, 1P, 1LS that's 3 on ST for a total of 28. 6DL, 5OLBs, 3ILBs, 5CBs 4S. That's 23 on defense for a total of 51 spots taken. In my mind right now these are the guys I have fighting for those final 2 spots right now. Henry/KLM, Price, Canady, Camp, Reynolds, Brook/Elam, Levine, and a potential veteran swing OT. What argument would you use to pound the table for Levine to be kept as a Dimeback over these guys?

I got it - I know there isnt a limit on specific positions.

But, you were discussing wanting to keep Elam and Brooks over Levine for your reasons... no need to rehash them.

So, would I rather give my 1 roster spot to a guy who effectively fills depth at Safety, at LB, plays the best at a niche role that the team has been emphasizing adding to the D all offseason, and is a leader on special teams....

Or - give it to 1 of 2 guys who all theyre gonna do is be my 3rd-5th safety.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

2 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

This isn't unusual for players in the secondary

 

2 hours ago, ludy51 said:

Especially safeties

 

2 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Yeah.. The secondary has the 2nd bigreat mental leap after qb. You're asking guys to come out of college in a new system and play the chess match against the highest chemistry groups of players, qbs and their targets have a distinct advantage over any defender by having timing and knowing each others quirks better than any other player. There's a reason free safeties tend to start out as box safeties or nickel backs, or high profile corners start out as 3rd options while the veteran slides inside in nickel packages.

Examples?

Not saying there are none. You may have some obvious ones - I just cant think of any (outside of David Amerson, who i think quite frankly the jury is still out on)... especially any that have been as bad as Elam has that have turned into a real difference maker in their 4th year.

Brooks is a bit different since he's missed so much time to injury, and yea, im sure theres a couple examples of guys like that (and who then effectively dont have 3-4 years league experience), and I have more faith in him turning into a contributor.

But I cant think of anyone who hasnt been so much as a quality ST contributor in their first 3-4 years and then suddenly became a very good player. Theres almost always signs.... whether a stretch of games during a season, playing a smaller role well before blossoming and becoming a starter.. But cant think of anyone who's looked as plain overwhelmed physically and mentally as Elam who suddenly clicked.

 

--

And besides that - i get i shouldnt have spoken so black and white - but the point remains that Im not cutting a guy who's a better player now by a decent margin with a several year track record of playing better, for a guy ive already given 3-4 years of development to with almost 0 return, in the slight hope he breaks out this year.

This could change - im not in practice every day. But based on what I saw PS game 1.... if i have to make the decision right now to keep 1 of Levine, Elam or Brooks im keeping Levine, and not giving a pass to the other 2 on potential. Theyve got 3 more weeks to put it together (or maybe they already have/are and its just in practice which im not privy to... in which case i trust the coaches and FO to make that decision) and change that - but as of right now Levine looks the best player who can contribute the most to this team.

Edited August 15, 2016 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[ravensdan]

6 hours ago, rmw10 said:

It had long been speculated that his issue was physical, but based on reports over the last year or so, it sounds like it's been a mental thing.  It's been reported that he really struggled with the playbook and being able to process quickly on the field.  In regards to the weight though, although there has been a shift, he needed to be around 240 or so to handle a full time load.  Bucannon works nicely in Arizona but he gets washed out of running plays quite a bit, so he's not exactly a full time player.

I have heard that about the mental side of the game with Brown, which will always keep a player completely off the field. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

2 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Yeah I think the disconnect comes from if it's just a Dimeback role or a much larger role. If it's a much larger role I'm all for it. I'd like to see him get more then 18 reps in a preseason if he's gonna be a full time LB in any capacity.

I think the size of that role is going to depend on who we're playing... but the reason I think finding a guy like Levine who can play it is because we havent had one in the past, or havent focused on it and certain offenses have just picked us apart.

Based on what ive gathered from listening to the coaches talk and their actions (how they're listing guys on the roster, where they're playing and how much) I think the intention is to play in Dime looks far more often, especially against a certain type offense.

Teams like the Patriots for example, who've typically picked us apart with quick, timing passes with a mix of TE's, RBs and shifty slot type receivers across the middle - I think this is the reaction to our struggles there. Plug in Levine, who can play the run if they think we're small bc we're showing dime... but can also cover a zone effectively, can turn and run down the seam with a TE, and also has the man coverage skills along with the size/athleticism combo to cover anyone from a TE to RB to Edelman.

Especially when those offenses try to push the pace to get us caught in a certain look - either with too many DBs on the field, or too many dlineman - a guy like Levine gives us that in between personnel package that is capable of playing both effectively.

 

And I do think it's intentional - it's something we're going to try and do a lot more of... and as of now it seems Levine is that guy for the job.

[Ravensfan23]

1 hour ago, rossihunter2 said:

I'm pretty confident reynolds won't be kept instead of camp at this point, it'll be jeremy butler who makes it instead - reynolds is destined for the ps in my opinion, canady is probably going to phantom ir, levine is a lock pretty much - he is the second best special teams guy on this team behind albert mclellan and now that mclellan is in the running for a starter job, levine becomes even more important on special teams and no way this team keeps more than 8 OL

remember the positions only go so far, at the end of the day the coaches want the best 53 players (that's why you're saying that the ravens will keep 4rbs and 4 tes (that wouldn't make much sense otherwise)) no matter their positions to a certain extent

You can't just phantom ir guys because they don't fit your numbers, other than Butler who has the IR system actually worked for? This here is exactly the issue. It's easy to say oh just place Price on the PS and IR Canady, however the fact is that the Ravens really value length and size on the outside. They've been trying to pair Jimmy with another 6'1+ corner for years, from Cary Williams, Rashaad Melvin, to drafting Tray Walker(RIP 25) to now drafting Canady and also giving Price a really solid look. You can't just overlook the fact that whenever Jimmy isn't in practice it's Price who takes first team reps. Davis was the top reserve CB up vs the Panthers but as soon as Wright exited it was Price who maned the outside CB position for the remainder of the game for the most part. So now you are telling me the Ravens are just gonna risk this young guy who could develop into a really solid CB opposite Jimmy because you need to find a roster spot for a Dimeback? Remember Practice Squad mean you first have to be cut and the notion around the NFL is that you can never have too many good corners. So i'm not saying he'd be snatched up but it wouldn't surprise me if he were. Again do the Ravens really want to risk that for a Dimeback?

Ok even if you only keep 8OL which I agree with, you are still only talking about 2 roster spots. What are you willing to risk to keep a decent ST guy who will provide nothing to your defense but a Dime role that could be filled by any other versatile DB because it's not a huge part of your defense? 

Also, i hate to keep bringing this up, but Levine is vastly overvalued as a Special Teamer by Ravens fans. Not saying he isn't good, but the Ravens produce a Anthony Levine on ST almost every year. While tackles aren't everything in most cases that's what's used to determine how good a guy is or isn't on ST. Here's a site that will show every player on the Ravens special teams tackles for each year. Notice how the leading tackles change from year to year, because those guys aren't retained. Again not downing Levine, but his special teams contribution isn't something the Ravens can't do without. I know he does more than just tackle but much like Trawick, he'll have to do more than just contribute on ST and I don't think a Dime role is enough. 

 

[BmoreBird22]

33 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Examples?

From the very own Ravens team, Jimmy Smith. And remember, it's three years for Elam since he lost a year to injury. Although, many would argue that 2013 was just good and 2014 is where it all really came together. 

The very best corner of our generation, Darelle Revis, was a very good corner, but didn't become Revis Island until year three. Keenan Lewis improved significantly in year four and year five.

These are just some I've thought of off the top of my head, but I'm sure there's several more if I really bothered to dig around. That's just at corner, though, but it's still a DB position.

[Ravensfan23]

59 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I got it - I know there isnt a limit on specific positions.

But, you were discussing wanting to keep Elam and Brooks over Levine for your reasons... no need to rehash them.

So, would I rather give my 1 roster spot to a guy who effectively fills depth at Safety, at LB, plays the best at a niche role that the team has been emphasizing adding to the D all offseason, and is a leader on special teams....

Or - give it to 1 of 2 guys who all theyre gonna do is be my 3rd-5th safety.

 Oh I get it, I just enjoy these type of topics because there really isn't a right or wrong answer. It all depends on what the coaches value. Not a big Hard Knocks fan, but when these type discussions are had i'm definitely tuned it. 

For me it's not necessarily wanting to keep Elam and Brooks over Levine, it more of the fact that I just don't see Levine as this versatile swiss army knife that many of you guys feel he is. Or should I say I'm not sure the team values him like that. You say he can effectively fiil depth at the Safety position, but that's just the thing, he doesn't. At this point he brings nothing to the safety position. It's like saying Reynolds provides depth to the QB position. Levine literally never plays at Safety and the versatility he has to play CB wasn't called upon last year when the team needed it the most. So just knowing that and now he's being asked to switch positions. It just seems to me to be a situation where the Ravens really like Levine's team first mentality and this move is a way to possibly reward him and justify him remaining on this team because otherwise he wouldn't. 

If that's the case, the question for me becomes how important is or will this position be to the Ravens defense "This Year'? If it's a key role to the defense, then I can see finding a way to get him on the roster, but if it's nothing more than a Dime position than no. I'd rather keep either or both Elam and Brooks because they are actually playing well at Safety right now truly bringing that depth you spoke about. 

[Filmstudy]

Outstanding discussion, guys.  I'm sorry to miss a few hours of it.  

If I understand Ravensfan23 correctly, he has 2 principle objections to Levine making the team:

1. He doesn't do enough outside of special teams to justify a spot

2. The dime itself isn't all that meaningful a role as deployed by Pees

Basically, I'd say the dime, as played by past Ravens defenses is a tremendously important role, because it can be 35% of the snaps (Lewis, 2000).  That's the same percentage of snaps as a typical rotational defensive lineman.  More importantly, they are the snaps with the highest leverage (impact on W/L probability).

Ravensfan23 accurately points out that the dime has been a big nothing under Pees (99 snaps in 4 seasons), but I'm excited about the arrival of Frazier and "versatility" comments by Harbuagh indicating it's coming back in a meaningful way.  Your skepticism of Pees acceptance is understood (and shared by me), but I am hoping circumstances have finally conspired to force its usage if it is not, in fact, Dean's design.  The fact that Harbaugh quoted Pees as commenting on the need to be able to play dime, the practice role of Levine, the usage of Anthony versus the Panthers, and his success in the role all point to many more dime snaps than in past years.

Could it fall apart from here?  Sure.  Levine could play poorly and Pees could simply decide Orr (in the nickel) is a better choice on 3rd down.  Levine could be hurt and Elam or another option could play poorly in the role.

Rest assured though, Levine will make the team even if he isn't the dime by the end of camp.

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

 

 

Examples?

Not saying there are none. You may have some obvious ones - I just cant think of any (outside of David Amerson, who i think quite frankly the jury is still out on)... especially any that have been as bad as Elam has that have turned into a real difference maker in their 4th year.

Brooks is a bit different since he's missed so much time to injury, and yea, im sure theres a couple examples of guys like that (and who then effectively dont have 3-4 years league experience), and I have more faith in him turning into a contributor.

But I cant think of anyone who hasnt been so much as a quality ST contributor in their first 3-4 years and then suddenly became a very good player. Theres almost always signs.... whether a stretch of games during a season, playing a smaller role well before blossoming and becoming a starter.. But cant think of anyone who's looked as plain overwhelmed physically and mentally as Elam who suddenly clicked.

 

--

And besides that - i get i shouldnt have spoken so black and white - but the point remains that Im not cutting a guy who's a better player now by a decent margin with a several year track record of playing better, for a guy ive already given 3-4 years of development to with almost 0 return, in the slight hope he breaks out this year.

This could change - im not in practice every day. But based on what I saw PS game 1.... if i have to make the decision right now to keep 1 of Levine, Elam or Brooks im keeping Levine, and not giving a pass to the other 2 on potential. Theyve got 3 more weeks to put it together (or maybe they already have/are and its just in practice which im not privy to... in which case i trust the coaches and FO to make that decision) and change that - but as of right now Levine looks the best player who can contribute the most to this team.

i wasnt ssaying elam is gonna click, none of those players who came on slow were ever as bad as elams 2nd year, theres a difference between a player who just doesnt have it, and a player who comes on slow. i wasnt arguing that elam is gonna burst onto the scene out of nowhere, just agreeing that db's have a hell of a learning curve

[Filmstudy]

There was one Ravens player who provided essentially 0 in terms of draft value (during his first 5 seasons).  But he had the light go on in year 6 under a team-friendly FA contract.  That was Dwan Edwards.

Last year, Levine played just 8 defensive snaps.  For the playoff-bound 2014 Ravens, however, he played 226 at both corner and safety.    Do you think it's fair, under those circumstances to compare Levine's versatility to that of Keenan Reynolds as a QB or Eric Weddle as a holder?

Edited August 15, 2016 by Filmstudy

[jazz1988]

7 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

No. Here's my problems with this:

1. Far too many fans think the NFL is like Madden or Fantasy, where you can just trade people whenever you want. Spending an entire post bashing the player for how poor a player he is, and then simultaneously saying "well but another team might want to trade for him" doesn't make any sense to me.

2. I asked a simple question of how that trade would make the Ravens better.  I didn't get an answer, and I don't think a lot of people actually consider this when they start floating out trade ideas like this. They just say "hey, he's no good and we may cut him, lets trade him". Maybe 1 out of 500 guys who teams want to cut actually get traded for some actual value.

3. Is a 6th or 7th rounder REALLY better than nothing? Historically, the answer is no, its not really better. Its really about the same. I wouldn't care one bit if I found out later that the Texans would have given a 6th for him... I didn't care one bit when we traded Boldin for a 6th rounder. It meant nothing to me. Maybe that trade turns into something, or more likely it turns into nothing. Historically, the latter is more likely, and that is an increasing likelihood given how weak current and future draft classes are. 

 

I don' I don't get how me mentioning  Kendrick Lewis being traded to The Houston Texans should be considered at the level of me playing Madden  or Fantasy. I gave you a solid reason why Lewis would be a favorite candidate for The Houston Texans in a trade because not only is he a favorite of The Texans defensive coordinator( i proved that) but he also would  be upgrade for them at strong safety... I'm not really concerned about Eric Weddle health and I know Ladarius Webb has health issues but I  haven't heard much news of him getting hurt at all in training camp so far, which is good news in it self because usually even in training camp he misses practice time here and there due him nursing a injury.

 

Fans may dislike Elam and Brooks but it doesn't change the fact that  they are The Ravens first and third rounder . Elam just recently had his best training camp today to go along with his good performance in the last preseason game in which The Ravens played in. As I said before if Elam and Brooks continue to practice and play well especially in Kendrick Lewis absence then I don't see how it's so unbelievable and more to believe that Lewis may be the odd man out which may lead to him being cut or traded.  No general manager ever wants to give up on their first ,second and third round pick and so far Elam and Brooks have not been bad at all in training camp or preseason. What makes you think both can't play just as well as Lewis if call upon to do so along with them bringing more to the defense because their versatility? If The Ravens got a sixth round pick for Lewis then that's a plus because honestly I don't really expect them drafting awhole lot of players next season after they drafted like 11 players this year especially since most of them are expected to make the team. So what ever they could get for Lewis can be use in a trade in next year draft.

Edited August 16, 2016 by jazz1988

[Ravensfan23]

1 hour ago, Filmstudy said:

There was one Ravens player who provided essentially 0 in terms of draft value (during his first 5 seasons).  But he had the light go on in year 6 under a team-friendly FA contract.  That was Dwan Edwards.

Last year, Levine played just 8 defensive snaps.  For the playoff-bound 2014 Ravens, however, he played 226 at both corner and safety.    Do you think it's fair, under those circumstances to compare Levine's versatility to that of Keenan Reynolds as a QB or Eric Weddle as a holder?

My only issue with Levine's ability to play CB is the fact that the Ravens needed all the help they could get at CB last year and Levine saw only 8 defensive snaps? Did the coaches not like his performance in 2014 thus eliminating him as a option at CB? So I do think it's fair to compare his versatility to that of Reynolds or Weddle because those guys won't see those roles unless it's an emergency and based on where Levine is listed on the depth chart, his lack of snaps last year and the fact that he's changed position it seems he'd only fill in at S or CB in an emergency. 

I think Levine is tremendously talented but the Ravens have said all offseason that there will be some guys who could start in the NFL who will be cut by this team. Levine just seems like a luxury that i'm not sure the Ravens can fit in right now. It should be fun to see it play out. 

 

 

 

[allblackraven]

49 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

I don' I don't get how me mentioning  Kendrick Lewis being traded to The Houston Texans should be considered at the level of me playing Madden  or Fantasy. I gave you a solid reason why Lewis would be a favorite candidate for The Houston Texans in a trade because not only is he a favorite of The Texans defensive coordinator( i proved that) but he also would  be upgrade for them at strong safety... I'm not really concerned about Eric Weddle health and I know Ladarius Webb has health issues but I  haven't heard much news of him getting hurt at all in training camp so far, which is good news in it self because usually even in training camp he misses practice time here and there due him nursing a injury.

 

Fans may dislike Elam and Brooks but it doesn't change the fact that  they are The Ravens first and third rounder . Elam just recently had his best training camp today to go along with his good performance in the last preseason game in which The Ravens played in. As I said before if Elam and Brooks continue to practice and play well especially in Kendrick Lewis absence then I don't see how it's so unbelievable and more to believe that Lewis may be the odd man out which may lead to him being cut or traded.  No general manager ever wants to give up on their first ,second and third round pick and so far Elam and Brooks have not been bad at all in training camp or preseason. What makes you think both can't play just as well as Lewis if call upon to do so along with them bringing more to the defense because their versatility? If The Ravens got a sixth round pick for Lewis then that's a plus because honestly I don't really expect them drafting awhole lot of players next season after they drafted like 11 players this year especially since most of them are expected to make the team. So what ever they could get for Lewis can be use in a trade in next year draft.

I'd like to be excluded from "Fans may dislike Elam and Brooks" part. I like Brooks since his college days and still do. Elam was sort of disappointment, having in mind he was a 1st rounder but I think I'd rather have him than Lewis in 53 at this point. 

Edited August 16, 2016 by allblackraven

[rossihunter2]

2 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

I don' I don't get how me mentioning  Kendrick Lewis being traded to The Houston Texans should be considered at the level of me playing Madden  or Fantasy. I gave you a solid reason why Lewis would be a favorite candidate for The Houston Texans in a trade because not only is he a favorite of The Texans defensive coordinator( i proved that) but he also would  be upgrade for them at strong safety... I'm not really concerned about Eric Weddle health and I know Ladarius Webb has health issues but I  haven't heard much news of him getting hurt at all in training camp so far, which is good news in it self because usually even in training camp he misses practice time here and there due him nursing a injury.

 

Fans may dislike Elam and Brooks but it doesn't change the fact that  they are The Ravens first and third rounder . Elam just recently had his best training camp today to go along with his good performance in the last preseason game in which The Ravens played in. As I said before if Elam and Brooks continue to practice and play well especially in Kendrick Lewis absence then I don't see how it's so unbelievable and more to believe that Lewis may be the odd man out which may lead to him being cut or traded.  No general manager ever wants to give up on their first ,second and third round pick and so far Elam and Brooks have not been bad at all in training camp or preseason. What makes you think both can't play just as well as Lewis if call upon to do so along with them bringing more to the defense because their versatility? If The Ravens got a sixth round pick for Lewis then that's a plus because honestly I don't really expect them drafting awhole lot of players next season after they drafted like 11 players this year especially since most of them are expected to make the team. So what ever they could get for Lewis can be use in a trade in next year draft.

what i dont get though is why you think the texans would want to trade for lewis - if we were going to get rid of him, then we'll cut him in which case they don't have to give up anything, and i think you are over egging the romeo crenell thing... he's not the general manager and i don't think their strong safety situation is that bad - certainly not bad enough to trade away a sixth or seventh rounder

lewis is more likely to be cut than traded if he doesnt make it on this team which i think is highly unlikely given his experience and that he'd be playing a backup role which is all the more crucial given how fragile webb has proven to be in the past

this assumes that harbs or anyone actually wants to get rid of lewis in the first place

[RavensFan34950]

3 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

My only issue with Levine's ability to play CB is the fact that the Ravens needed all the help they could get at CB last year and Levine saw only 8 defensive snaps? Did the coaches not like his performance in 2014 thus eliminating him as a option at CB? So I do think it's fair to compare his versatility to that of Reynolds or Weddle because those guys won't see those roles unless it's an emergency and based on where Levine is listed on the depth chart, his lack of snaps last year and the fact that he's changed position it seems he'd only fill in at S or CB in an emergency. 

I think Levine is tremendously talented but the Ravens have said all offseason that there will be some guys who could start in the NFL who will be cut by this team. Levine just seems like a luxury that i'm not sure the Ravens can fit in right now. It should be fun to see it play out. 

 

 

 

Didn't Levine also get hurt in the 2014 season? Maybe he was still recovering from the injury last season. I mean he wasn't bad at all in 2014 when he played, so that would explain the big drop in playing time from last season.

[Newsome is Awesome]

7 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

The very best corner of our generation, Darelle Revis, was a very good corner, but didn't become Revis Island until year three. Keenan Lewis improved significantly in year four and year five.

These are just some I've thought of off the top of my head

Understanding this is not about Revis, but rather players we hope can become Revis, he started all 16 games as a rookie and had a career year in regard to tackles.  One could certainly make a case that his first year may have been the 2nd best year he has ever had.

Keenan Lewis has had trouble staying sound.

Talent usually shows itself to coaches quite early.  Sometimes they hang onto guys hoping to find it.

http://www.nfl.com/player/darrellerevis/2495717/gamelogs?season=2007

http://www.nfl.com/player/darrellerevis/2495717/gamelogs?season=2009

Edited August 16, 2016 by Newsome is Awesome

[Ravensfan23]

8 minutes ago, RavensFan34950 said:

Didn't Levine also get hurt in the 2014 season? Maybe he was still recovering from the injury last season. I mean he wasn't bad at all in 2014 when he played, so that would explain the big drop in playing time from last season.

The only injury i remember Levine having in 2014 was a concussion late in the season. However he passed protocol and didn't miss a game the remainder of the season including both playoff games. I don't recall him being injured at all in 2015. He was just buried on the depth chart. He was the 3rd FS behind Lewis and Brooks. 

During weeks 6 and 7 both Lewis and Brooks missed time with injury. You would think that Levine would be called on to fill in at Safety, however he saw a total of 1 defensive snap between the two games. It was Brynden Trawick who stepped up at SS while Hill moved over to FS. Also in both games Levine saw 25+ Special Teams snaps which was his normal workload. So I doubt he didn't see time because of injury. The coaches just didn't think he could help the team as a Safety. That's why i just don't put much stock into his "versatility" because it seems the coaches aren't comfortable putting him in the game. Maybe this move to LB is just what he needs.  

[rossihunter2]

18 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

The only injury i remember Levine having in 2014 was a concussion late in the season. However he passed protocol and didn't miss a game the remainder of the season including both playoff games. I don't recall him being injured at all in 2015. He was just buried on the depth chart. He was the 3rd FS behind Lewis and Brooks. 

During weeks 6 and 7 both Lewis and Brooks missed time with injury. You would think that Levine would be called on to fill in at Safety, however he saw a total of 1 defensive snap between the two games. It was Brynden Trawick who stepped up at SS while Hill moved over to FS. Also in both games Levine saw 25+ Special Teams snaps which was his normal workload. So I doubt he didn't see time because of injury. The coaches just didn't think he could help the team as a Safety. That's why i just don't put much stock into his "versatility" because it seems the coaches aren't comfortable putting him in the game. Maybe this move to LB is just what he needs.  

I think people are over egging his need to be versatile - the coaches love him for special teams and that's how he'll make it. Any play he can contribute on defence is a bonus in their eyes.

[Ravensfan23]

21 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

I think people are over egging his need to be versatile - the coaches love him for special teams and that's how he'll make it. Any play he can contribute on defence is a bonus in their eyes.

I agree but that's exactly why I have him on my list of talented guys who will fall victim to the numbers. Simply put Levine isn't good enough as a ST player only to warrant a roster spot on "this" team because the 2016 Ravens seem really deep on paper. The Ravens have allowed much better ST players than Levine to walk. I think people put way too much stock into how much Harbs loves his ST unit. Yes he's a ST guy but the Ravens produce ST guys like Levine also every single year. 

Don't be surprised to see a guy like Jeremy Butler thrust into that role.

[jazz1988]

2 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

what i dont get though is why you think the texans would want to trade for lewis - if we were going to get rid of him, then we'll cut him in which case they don't have to give up anything, and i think you are over egging the romeo crenell thing... he's not the general manager and i don't think their strong safety situation is that bad - certainly not bad enough to trade away a sixth or seventh rounder

lewis is more likely to be cut than traded if he doesnt make it on this team which i think is highly unlikely given his experience and that he'd be playing a backup role which is all the more crucial given how fragile webb has proven to be in the past

this assumes that harbs or anyone actually wants to get rid of lewis in the first place

Romeo may not be The Texans general manager but not every trade or  free agent signing is done by the will of the general manager all on his own. Sometimes such transactions are made due to the team coordinator vouching for that player.

I don't think Lewis being cut or traded is highly unlikely at all if Brooks and Elam continue to impress...Lewis has experience but  he doesn't provide the versatility that those two or three (if you count Levine) bring to the table