The good bad and ugly Pre-Season 1

[Steve0x]

23 hours ago, Sizzlebshu said:

Anyone else notice that we are basically a 4-3 now even tho we dont really have the personnel to run it

They should go to the 3-4 

[Purple Punishment]

20 hours ago, Sami84 said:

on another note, carl davis just looks like a very average player at best in the NFL. I don't see him ever being an impact player at this level.

 

So, one preseason game in, and you make that determination? 

 

Sami, you're the biggest troll I've ever encountered on the intrawebz

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

On 8/11/2016 at 10:48 PM, K-Dog said:

Terrance West.

 

Is it too early to be a fan?

I love Forsett, but he is not the future, 28 and 30 are behind Joe. I am loving what I am seeing in West, and I almost think he purposely got himself out of Cleveland to try and get with us, but I love Dixon too. The issue here, is Buck Allen vs Taliaferro, who becomes the bruiser back? 

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

Its almost night and day this years draft class, vs last years class. We hit some homeruns this year

[JoeyFlex5]

6 minutes ago, Purple Punishment said:

 

So, one preseason game in, and you make that determination? 

 

Sami, you're the biggest troll I've ever encountered on the intrawebz

Id say it's also based on his rookie year which wasn't exactly impressive for a guy who was touted as a first round talent. 

I've feared he wouldn't be any more than average for a while and he played the whole game and didn't even stand out against practice squad guys.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

22 hours ago, 52liveforever said:

Not disagreeing one bit really.

So id first like to say I've never gotten the hype on Levine. I think he's a hard working and a company man who will do whatever the company needs or wants him to do so I really love that about him. As far as play goes I've never seen much in him. At least in Brooks we have seen flashes imo super bright flashes. Brooks just hasn't been consistent. Elam has shown flickers and him being a first round pick you really hope it comes together eventually. Honestly I'd cut Lewis. I don't see him being valued enough by other teams to trade him.

Levine is arguably our best ST player. It's prob between him, Waller and McLellan... And with McLellan stepping into a bigger defensive role he may not be used as much on ST and Wallers suspended and will have a tough time making the team when he comes back. 

Cant see cutting our ST leader. 

He did play well the season we needed him at corner. Nothing special but he was solid considering he was thrust into a prominent role having never played the position and having only a couple weeks to prepare. 

And he made one of the best plays of the game against Carolina. He's gotta finish and catch the ball, but he got to the perfect depth of his drop, stayed patient reading to QB to bait the throw and then broke perfectly to break up the pass. Should've been an INT but for a guy who's been playing the position for maybe a month or two, that showed savvy, great technique and understanding of his role in the scheme. 

His versatility alone is a great value as he only takes up one roster spot but gives depth at S, CB, and LB. in a season where were pressed for roster spots at nearly every position and have no less than 10 guys that should make this team vying for maybe 3-4 spots... A guy like him is super valuable in that he lets us maybe take one less at corner, safety or LB if we feel a TE, RB, OL, WR should make it over a depth guy at one of Levines positions. 

No he's not a world beater but he's solid at everything he does. And when on the field is a great piece bc he can move around to confuse the offense from LB, drop to a deep safety then come back down in the box and slide out to cover the slot so the nickel can blitz. I mean there's just so much you can do with a guy like that. 

I think Levines a lock for the roster. I think he's the 4th LB behind Mosley, Orr and Correa and may be as high as the 3rd safety. 

I prefer Levine and Brooks right now over Leeis and Elam. Though that could change. But I see Levine as the safest of that group. 

[jazz1988]

13 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

He doesn't have any trade value, nor do trades really happen often in the NFL.

Plus, he's basically the 3rd best safety on this team, so you'd be trading depth at a position with question marks for what benefit exactly? You like the idea of Terrence Brooks or Matt Elam as a starting safety on this team? I don't, and I certainly don't like eit her of them more than Lewis. 

 I know Lewis is a favorite of The Houston Texans defensive coordinator , so it's no telling if he doesn't have trade value at all.The Texans need safety help especially at strong safety which Lewis played well at during the later portion of the season.

Lewis played so bad at free safety for The Ravens last year it forced them to use Ladarius Webb at the position. Maybe Lewis had trouble adjusting to Dean Pees system but Elam did a better job in his rookie year  playing at the same position than Lewis did. 

I honestly don't understand why Lewis isn't being used as a linebacker in  The Ravens dime packages like Levine and Elam.Maybe he's not versatile enough to do so but I thought he would be able to it.

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, jazz1988 said:

 I know Lewis is a favorite of The Houston Texans defensive coordinator , so it's no telling if he doesn't have trade value at all.The Texans need safety help especially at strong safety which Lewis played well at during the later portion of the season.

Lewis played so bad at free safety for The Ravens last year it forced them to use Ladarius Webb at the position. Maybe Lewis had trouble adjusting to Dean Pees system but Elam did a better job in his rookie year  playing at the same position than Lewis did. 

I honestly don't understand why Lewis isn't being used as a linebacker in  The Ravens dime packages like Levine and Elam.Maybe he's not versatile enough to do so but I thought he would be able to it.

So he was so bad, but he has trade value?  That's what doesn't make sense about this scenario.  A significant majority of people think he's awful, but then, someone will actually give something up for him?

For what it's worth, I don't think Lewis is near as bad as many have made him out to be.  I'm not going to pretend he's great, but it's clear that the Ravens value him pretty highly.  He's far and away the 3rd S on this team right now whether people like it or not.

[JoeyFlex5]

53 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

So he was so bad, but he has trade value?  That's what doesn't make sense about this scenario.  A significant majority of people think he's awful, but then, someone will actually give something up for him?

For what it's worth, I don't think Lewis is near as bad as many have made him out to be.  I'm not going to pretend he's great, but it's clear that the Ravens value him pretty highly.  He's far and away the 3rd S on this team right now whether people like it or not.

gino was possible the worst interior lineman in the league in 2013, we got a 4th rounder for him lawl

[rmw10]

Just now, JoeyFlex5 said:

gino was possible the worst interior lineman in the league in 2013, we got a 4th rounder for him lawl

Definitely the exception and not the rule lol.  That one still baffles me, even though it was swapping a round up that only resulted in a few picks overall.

[JoeyFlex5]

2 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Definitely the exception and not the rule lol.  That one still baffles me, even though it was swapping a round up that only resulted in a few picks overall.

yeah i forget about the swapping 5th lol but yeah i know, just worth a mention that some teams like specific players for their own reasons, i wouldnt rule it out

[Ravenseconbeast]

Another year of with ton of 'contributors' but no one with any potential to be the new probowler on our team.

 

We need new elite playmakers to this team.  Someone step up!  Blue chip players, with few flash is fine.  But we need another new guy that will pop out of the screen and surprise us.  

 

Haven't seen any for first season.

[rmw10]

2 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

yeah i forget about the swapping 5th lol but yeah i know, just worth a mention that some teams like specific players for their own reasons, i wouldnt rule it out

I'm ruling it out solely on the token that I think the Ravens have 0 interest in trading him.  They value him, whether many like it or not.

Edited August 14, 2016 by rmw10

[Ravensfan23]

42 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Another year of with ton of 'contributors' but no one with any potential to be the new probowler on our team.

 

We need new elite playmakers to this team.  Someone step up!  Blue chip players, with few flash is fine.  But we need another new guy that will pop out of the screen and surprise us.  

 

Haven't seen any for first season.

Nobody show pro bowl potential in preseason game 1. On on top of that, most of the guys playing were backups and rotational players. Even the starters like Jimmy, Weddle and Webb who did play, just basically got their work in for 1 drive and got out. Preseason game 1 isn't about finding pro bowlers or even finding major contributors to your team. It's about getting the young guys exposed to the feel of an NFL game and see what you have to work with. 

[PerpetuallyBored74]

2 hours ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Another year of with ton of 'contributors' but no one with any potential to be the new probowler on our team.

 

We need new elite playmakers to this team.  Someone step up!  Blue chip players, with few flash is fine.  But we need another new guy that will pop out of the screen and surprise us.  

 

Haven't seen any for first season.

Za'darius Smith and Matt Judon on defense.

Ronnie Stanley and West/Dixon on offense.

They looked like potential Pro Bowlers to me--if not this season, then maybe in the future. Granted it's just one preseason game, but they played very well.

And Mosely looks like he may have a strong bounceback season with the improved Orr alongside him. 

Don't forget that a lot of our best players did not even play--Yanda, Suggs, BWill, Jimmy, Dumervil, SSS, Pitta, Wallace, Gillmore, Aiken, Jernigan, Watson, Forsett and of course, Joe.

There's a couple of potential Pro Bowlers in that group.

Granted, age and injury may prevent some of them from playing at that level (or even at all.) but they do have that type of talent when healthy.

The main thing is that our depth is noticeably better from last year's. And with the coaches coming up with a customized offense, and emphasizing getting pressure on the QB and forcing turnovers on defense, we might have a shot at the playoffs this year after all. Still enough question marks (mainly due to injuries) that we're more likely to be around .500 but we're definitely trending upward.

Edited August 14, 2016 by PerpetuallyBored74

[Filmstudy]

8 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Levine is arguably our best ST player. It's prob between him, Waller and McLellan... And with McLellan stepping into a bigger defensive role he may not be used as much on ST and Wallers suspended and will have a tough time making the team when he comes back. 

Cant see cutting our ST leader. 

He did play well the season we needed him at corner. Nothing special but he was solid considering he was thrust into a prominent role having never played the position and having only a couple weeks to prepare. 

And he made one of the best plays of the game against Carolina. He's gotta finish and catch the ball, but he got to the perfect depth of his drop, stayed patient reading to QB to bait the throw and then broke perfectly to break up the pass. Should've been an INT but for a guy who's been playing the position for maybe a month or two, that showed savvy, great technique and understanding of his role in the scheme. 

His versatility alone is a great value as he only takes up one roster spot but gives depth at S, CB, and LB. in a season where were pressed for roster spots at nearly every position and have no less than 10 guys that should make this team vying for maybe 3-4 spots... A guy like him is super valuable in that he lets us maybe take one less at corner, safety or LB if we feel a TE, RB, OL, WR should make it over a depth guy at one of Levines positions. 

No he's not a world beater but he's solid at everything he does. And when on the field is a great piece bc he can move around to confuse the offense from LB, drop to a deep safety then come back down in the box and slide out to cover the slot so the nickel can blitz. I mean there's just so much you can do with a guy like that. 

I think Levines a lock for the roster. I think he's the 4th LB behind Mosley, Orr and Correa and may be as high as the 3rd safety. 

I prefer Levine and Brooks right now over Leeis and Elam. Though that could change. But I see Levine as the safest of that group. 

Levine is indeed a roster lock, and a lock for activity on game day if healthy.  His usage/play on Thursday was the single most interesting aspect of the game to me, because it represents a significant schematic shift for Pees.

The Ravens played just 62 dime snaps the last 3 seasons (41, 8, 13, 2% of total snaps).  On Thursday, after Levine practiced with the LBs this camp, he played 18 snaps as the dime, all in obvious passing situations.  He made 3 good plays among those 18, the PD/near pick, the drive-ending tackle on Wegher (Q4, 12:57) in the open field, and negotiation of the screen traffic (Q3, 4:30) where he arrived on time, but the WR had been tripped up by Elam.  He showed AA blitz with Brown several times and will provide more options on 3rd down in terms of coverage than a linebacker.  I expect him to play well in the role and join a fine line of quality dimes the Ravens have had (Ralph Staten, Corey Harris, Chad Williams, Jerome Sapp, and Haruki Nakamura).  Those guys may be lesser known, but they all made some big plays and were on the field for the highest leverage downs, so their contribution was magnified.

I wrote a piece on the dime recently here that compares Pees-era dime usage to the 2000 Ravens defense:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/07/29/camp-notes/ravens-defensive-backs-dime-defense/

If you're interested, here are my grades by player from Thursday's game (long):

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/08/12/filmstudy/2016-draft-class-preseason-opener/

Edited August 14, 2016 by Filmstudy

[rmcjacket23]

11 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

 I know Lewis is a favorite of The Houston Texans defensive coordinator , so it's no telling if he doesn't have trade value at all.The Texans need safety help especially at strong safety which Lewis played well at during the later portion of the season.

Lewis played so bad at free safety for The Ravens last year it forced them to use Ladarius Webb at the position. Maybe Lewis had trouble adjusting to Dean Pees system but Elam did a better job in his rookie year  playing at the same position than Lewis did. 

I honestly don't understand why Lewis isn't being used as a linebacker in  The Ravens dime packages like Levine and Elam.Maybe he's not versatile enough to do so but I thought he would be able to it.

LOL, I think you are quite a bit confused. Romeo Crennel is the DC in Houston, and Lewis played a grand total of one season in Houston before they let him go, so there's really not much evidence to suggest that Crennel is a Lewis fan. I'm honestly not even sure where you came up with that, but I think you straight up just made it up.

Lewis wasn't very good as a FS last season. But then again, he's not the starting FS on this team anymore. I'd be interested if you could list the teams in this league that have a BACKUP FS as good as Kendrick Lewis on their team? My guess is you couldn't list half the STARTING FS in the entire league, let alone the depth teams have behind them. That's Lewis' role, and even myself, who is not by any means a fan of Kendrick Lewis and his play last season, thinks he has value as a depth FS. Not every player on our roster is expected to be a starter.

You can't just keep transitioning players between positions. It doesn't work that often. Frankly, I don't think transitioning Elam or Levine to linebacker in dime packages is going to work that well either, nor do I think there's a huge difference in responsibility in those formations. Those guys are basically going to be middle of the field coverage guys, which is a lot of what a normal safety would do in a base package. Changing the "title" of a position while not actually changing a lot of the coverage responsibilities really isn't doing much.

The irony here is that your entire post is basically making a case why Lewis has no trade value. The team that allegedly "loved him" wanted nothing to do with him after ONE season, he's a terrible FS, and he would need a position change in order to be relevant. And yet, he's tradeable? LOL.

[BmoreBird22]

16 hours ago, OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL said:

I love Forsett, but he is not the future, 28 and 30 are behind Joe. I am loving what I am seeing in West, and I almost think he purposely got himself out of Cleveland to try and get with us, but I love Dixon too. The issue here, is Buck Allen vs Taliaferro, who becomes the bruiser back? 

I'd take Tali, but he can't stay healthy, so he's probably out.

[BmoreBird22]

44 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

LOL, I think you are quite a bit confused. Romeo Crennel is the DC in Houston, and Lewis played a grand total of one season in Houston before they let him go, so there's really not much evidence to suggest that Crennel is a Lewis fan. I'm honestly not even sure where you came up with that, but I think you straight up just made it up.

For someone who likes to try to fact check people, you are wrong.

Lewis was drafted by the Chiefs and played when Crennel was the DC and HC in Kansas City. Then, he later moved to Houston with Crennel.

[rmcjacket23]

2 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

For someone who likes to try to fact check people, you are wrong.

Lewis was drafted by the Chiefs and played when Crennel was the DC and HC in Kansas City. Then, he later moved to Houston with Crennel.

You are correct, although again, they did cut him from Houston after one season, which tells us something.

[52liveforever]

17 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Levine is arguably our best ST player. It's prob between him, Waller and McLellan... And with McLellan stepping into a bigger defensive role he may not be used as much on ST and Wallers suspended and will have a tough time making the team when he comes back. 

Cant see cutting our ST leader. 

He did play well the season we needed him at corner. Nothing special but he was solid considering he was thrust into a prominent role having never played the position and having only a couple weeks to prepare. 

And he made one of the best plays of the game against Carolina. He's gotta finish and catch the ball, but he got to the perfect depth of his drop, stayed patient reading to QB to bait the throw and then broke perfectly to break up the pass. Should've been an INT but for a guy who's been playing the position for maybe a month or two, that showed savvy, great technique and understanding of his role in the scheme. 

His versatility alone is a great value as he only takes up one roster spot but gives depth at S, CB, and LB. in a season where were pressed for roster spots at nearly every position and have no less than 10 guys that should make this team vying for maybe 3-4 spots... A guy like him is super valuable in that he lets us maybe take one less at corner, safety or LB if we feel a TE, RB, OL, WR should make it over a depth guy at one of Levines positions. 

No he's not a world beater but he's solid at everything he does. And when on the field is a great piece bc he can move around to confuse the offense from LB, drop to a deep safety then come back down in the box and slide out to cover the slot so the nickel can blitz. I mean there's just so much you can do with a guy like that. 

I think Levines a lock for the roster. I think he's the 4th LB behind Mosley, Orr and Correa and may be as high as the 3rd safety. 

I prefer Levine and Brooks right now over Leeis and Elam. Though that could change. But I see Levine as the safest of that group. 

I agree he is pretty much a lock. Still though he's not ever going to be anymore than he is now. He's a solid depth guy and good special teams guy who will play wherever you want him, but he's never going to be any better than he is now. If it comes down to him, Elam, and Brooks I would go with Elam and Brooks hoping they meet their potential. Obviously that's not the smart move and it's more of a gamble and exactly why I am not a general manager. 

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

You are correct, although again, they did cut him from Houston after one season, which tells us something.

I'm not suggesting he'd be worth much  (probably worth more to the Ravens than the Texans), but Crennel must like him.

[CognitiveCorvus]

On 13 August 2016 at 9:34 PM, OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL said:

I love Forsett, but he is not the future, 28 and 30 are behind Joe. I am loving what I am seeing in West, and I almost think he purposely got himself out of Cleveland to try and get with us, but I love Dixon too. The issue here, is Buck Allen vs Taliaferro, who becomes the bruiser back? 

 West and Dixon as our two headed monster actually look like a really good setup, as for Allem and Taliaferro, not overly impressed with what they've shown but we've got three more games yet.

[jazz1988]

9 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

LOL, I think you are quite a bit confused. Romeo Crennel is the DC in Houston, and Lewis played a grand total of one season in Houston before they let him go, so there's really not much evidence to suggest that Crennel is a Lewis fan. I'm honestly not even sure where you came up with that, but I think you straight up just made it up.

Lewis wasn't very good as a FS last season. But then again, he's not the starting FS on this team anymore. I'd be interested if you could list the teams in this league that have a BACKUP FS as good as Kendrick Lewis on their team? My guess is you couldn't list half the STARTING FS in the entire league, let alone the depth teams have behind them. That's Lewis' role, and even myself, who is not by any means a fan of Kendrick Lewis and his play last season, thinks he has value as a depth FS. Not every player on our roster is expected to be a starter.

You can't just keep transitioning players between positions. It doesn't work that often. Frankly, I don't think transitioning Elam or Levine to linebacker in dime packages is going to work that well either, nor do I think there's a huge difference in responsibility in those formations. Those guys are basically going to be middle of the field coverage guys, which is a lot of what a normal safety would do in a base package. Changing the "title" of a position while not actually changing a lot of the coverage responsibilities really isn't doing much.

The irony here is that your entire post is basically making a case why Lewis has no trade value. The team that allegedly "loved him" wanted nothing to do with him after ONE season, he's a terrible FS, and he would need a position change in order to be relevant. And yet, he's tradeable? LOL.

I see that you have already been informed about Crennel and Lewis connection .Kendrick Lewis was signed to The Texans in 2014 on a one year deal; it was stated The Texans wanted Kendrick Lewis back but he decided  to sign with The Ravens after they  had signed  safety Rahim Moore. If you would like further information on this situation especially the part where it states Romeo Crennel wanting Kendrick Lewis back then go here  . 

I actually think Lewis does have trade value if Romeo Crennel still likes him enough and I'm betting he does . My overall point is this if Elam,Brooks and Levine continue to practice well and play well then why shouldn't The Ravens be in favor to keep the guys that's more versatile and faster ?especially when versatility and speed is what the defense needs.

I'm not really concerned about them making mental mistakes because I think Leslie Frazier, Eric Weddle and Ladarius Webb well help alot with that.

[Filmstudy]

4 hours ago, 52liveforever said:

I agree he is pretty much a lock. Still though he's not ever going to be anymore than he is now. He's a solid depth guy and good special teams guy who will play wherever you want him, but he's never going to be any better than he is now. If it comes down to him, Elam, and Brooks I would go with Elam and Brooks hoping they meet their potential. Obviously that's not the smart move and it's more of a gamble and exactly why I am not a general manager. 

Levine probably won't get a ton better, but he's being cast into a FAR more important role as the dime.  Because he'll be on the field for the highest leverage downs, his impact on the team can be much greater than it ever has been.  

And the guys who excel at the dime have always been journeymen.  You never have Eric Berry or Ed Reed as your dime.

[52liveforever]

1 hour ago, Filmstudy said:

Levine probably won't get a ton better, but he's being cast into a FAR more important role as the dime.  Because he'll be on the field for the highest leverage downs, his impact on the team can be much greater than it ever has been.  

And the guys who excel at the dime have always been journeymen.  You never have Eric Berry or Ed Reed as your dime.

I dunno about always. I think it depends more on the safety. Polamalu played a lot of dime. 

[BmoreBird22]

16 hours ago, Filmstudy said:

Levine is indeed a roster lock, and a lock for activity on game day if healthy.  His usage/play on Thursday was the single most interesting aspect of the game to me, because it represents a significant schematic shift for Pees.

The Ravens played just 62 dime snaps the last 3 seasons (41, 8, 13, 2% of total snaps).  On Thursday, after Levine practiced with the LBs this camp, he played 18 snaps as the dime, all in obvious passing situations.  He made 3 good plays among those 18, the PD/near pick, the drive-ending tackle on Wegher (Q4, 12:57) in the open field, and negotiation of the screen traffic (Q3, 4:30) where he arrived on time, but the WR had been tripped up by Elam.  He showed AA blitz with Brown several times and will provide more options on 3rd down in terms of coverage than a linebacker.  I expect him to play well in the role and join a fine line of quality dimes the Ravens have had (Ralph Staten, Corey Harris, Chad Williams, Jerome Sapp, and Haruki Nakamura).  Those guys may be lesser known, but they all made some big plays and were on the field for the highest leverage downs, so their contribution was magnified.

I wrote a piece on the dime recently here that compares Pees-era dime usage to the 2000 Ravens defense:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/07/29/camp-notes/ravens-defensive-backs-dime-defense/

If you're interested, here are my grades by player from Thursday's game (long):

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/08/12/filmstudy/2016-draft-class-preseason-opener/

Really glad to see someone else thought really highly of Elam.

I thought he had a really great game, but a lot of people were trying to take away from him because he's Elam and they have that one player they all hate on.

[Tank 92]

6 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Really glad to see someone else thought really highly of Elam.

I thought he had a really great game, but a lot of people were trying to take away from him because he's Elam and they have that one player they all hate on.

 

I got pounded a few weeks ago when I said I thought he would improve and hopefully shine. They pointed out we didn't pick up his option, so what.  That doesn't mean he has to suck.  lol

Hard to condemn a guy for a poor showing his second year in the league.  Reports last year were that he had worked hard and was looking like he was on the upswing prior to the injury. I've thought all along that he had a great chance to become a key piece of the D. I hope the improvement continues.

[rmw10]

15 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Really glad to see someone else thought really highly of Elam.

I thought he had a really great game, but a lot of people were trying to take away from him because he's Elam and they have that one player they all hate on.

And Brooks had a pretty good game, too.  That competition certainly didn't become any clearer, and it's actually for good reasons this time.

[JoeyFlex5]

18 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Really glad to see someone else thought really highly of Elam.

I thought he had a really great game, but a lot of people were trying to take away from him because he's Elam and they have that one player they all hate on.

I thought highly of Elam but I knew there were risks, after his first 2 years I don't know if he has it between the ears, and a box safety who struggles to tackle is an oxymoron and that is exactly what Elam is. 

Needless to say, I am disappointed in him. I bought his jersey after his rookie season and I predicted he would become a DPOY in the near future. Obviously bad choices lol