[News] Ravens To Air Michael Phelps' Race During Preseason Opener At M&T Bank Stadium

[BR News]

Baltimore native Michael Phelps is chasing after his 22nd career gold medal, and the Ravens will show their support by airing the race during the preseason game.

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[Moderator 3]

Thank you.

[harfordravenfan]

I read somewhere that if Maryland was a country... We'd be in third place in the Olympics. 

[EdTheMythicalOne]

This is awesome. Phelps has been a regular at Orioles and Ravens events in the past, he's a home town guy, so why not give him a little love here? Maryland can lay claim to a lot of great athletes over the years in many different arenas. I am not up to snuff on my Olympic medal winners, but here are some names of some of our great champs:

Heavyweight Boxing Champ: Hasim Rahman
Mutliple weight champion & listed as one of the 5 best figthers all time: Sugar Ray Leonard (move to Palmer Park, MD at a young age and calls it home.)

Brooks Robinson: Arguably one of the best ever to play 3B, from Arkansas, he spent a 23 year MLB Career with the Orioles.

Cal Ripken Jr: One of the best ever to play SS and pioneered the age of the big, power hitting SS mold.

Johnny "U": Need I say more? Born in PA, but will ever be a Baltimore Colt
Ray Lewis: One of the best ever MLB
Ed Reed: One of the best ever Safeties
Jon Ogden: One of the best ever LT

I could go on, but these are just some of the names. These guys made Maryland proud. We're small in size, but we are big on heart.

[pizzle9249]

When was Cal Ripken considerded a power hitter? I think he was good but not a power hitter. When I think of a power hitter i think of Sammy Sosa, Mark Maguare, or even Frank Thomas. Cal could get on base when we needed it but i dont remember him being big home run guy averave at best. Please correct me if im wrong.

[balfan23]

30 minutes ago, pizzle9249 said:

When was Cal Ripken considerded a power hitter? I think he was good but not a power hitter. When I think of a power hitter i think of Sammy Sosa, Mark Maguare, or even Frank Thomas. Cal could get on base when we needed it but i dont remember him being big home run guy averave at best. Please correct me if im wrong.

I think you're forgetting the combination of era and position at the time he broke into the league. Ernie Banks hit for power in the late 50s and early 60s (before moving to 1st Base). His time in the league was followed by 2 decades of short stops who rarely had a showed the ability to it as many as 10 HRs. Then came Cal. He showed power at a position where there was none. He was never a threat to win a HR crown, but hitting in the upper 20s through the 80s, when the HR crown winners were barely breaking 40 was a show of power. 

It is hard to think of it that way, since Ripken was followed by Jeter and then Rodreguez and the entire steroid inflated HR totals. In retrospect and looking at it through the view of the time he played, he was indeed a hitter with notable power. 

[EdTheMythicalOne]

26 minutes ago, pizzle9249 said:

When was Cal Ripken considerded a power hitter? I think he was good but not a power hitter. When I think of a power hitter i think of Sammy Sosa, Mark Maguare, or even Frank Thomas. Cal could get on base when we needed it but i dont remember him being big home run guy averave at best. Please correct me if im wrong.

He set a record of consecutive seasons with 20+HR for a SS (10 seasons, including a 34HR season). And you have to keep a few things in perspective for Cal's era. Guys jacking out 30-40+HR in the early 80's before the "live ball era" of the 90's was not common. Sosa was a RFer, McGwire and Thomas were 1B/DH and considered positions of power. In Cal's era when he came up, shortstops were all glove no bat. As long as they could field they got the job. If they could hit anything that was a bonus. They tended to be tiny guys with some speed and range. They weren't 6'4'' 220lbs like Cal. They didn't hit 20HR a season. Cal has over 3,000 hits and 431HR which ranks him 24th of all current Hall of Famers. That's not even accounting for Ripken's defense. He set a record for fewest errors in a season (3 in 161 games) and highest fielding percentage in a season (.996) and oddly enough he didn't win a gold glove that year. It instead went to Ozzie Guillen who made 17 errors.

Anyway, this is a thread about Phelps and the Ravens so I don't want to diverge too far off that topic.

[mearzunkies]

This is yet another normal yet proprietary thing this organization has done for us fans. 

[mearzunkies]

This is awesome. Phelps has been a regular at Orioles and Ravens events in the past, he's a home town guy, so why not give him a little love here? Maryland can lay claim to a lot of great athletes over the years in many different arenas. I am not up to snuff on my Olympic medal winners, but here are some names of some of our great champs:

Heavyweight Boxing Champ: Hasim Rahman
Mutliple weight champion & listed as one of the 5 best figthers all time: Sugar Ray Leonard (move to Palmer Park, MD at a young age and calls it home.)

Brooks Robinson: Arguably one of the best ever to play 3B, from Arkansas, he spent a 23 year MLB Career with the Orioles.

Cal Ripken Jr: One of the best ever to play SS and pioneered the age of the big, power hitting SS mold.

Johnny "U": Need I say more? Born in PA, but will ever be a Baltimore Colt
Ray Lewis: One of the best ever MLB
Ed Reed: One of the best ever Safeties
Jon Ogden: One of the best ever LT

I could go on, but these are just some of the names. These guys made Maryland proud. We're small in size, but we are big on heart.

I fished Cals family pond before. LOL Glendon was a nice place and there was REALLY good fishing all over the state.

[mearzunkies]

1 hour ago, pizzle9249 said:

When was Cal Ripken considerded a power hitter? I think he was good but not a power hitter. When I think of a power hitter i think of Sammy Sosa, Mark Maguare, or even Frank Thomas. Cal could get on base when we needed it but i dont remember him being big home run guy averave at best. Please correct me if im wrong.

For a SS he was man.

Edited August 10, 2016 by mearzunkies
used an not a

[mearzunkies]

  1 hour ago, pizzle9249 said:

When was Cal Ripken considerded a power hitter? I think he was good but not a power hitter. When I think of a power hitter i think of Sammy Sosa, Mark Maguare, or even Frank Thomas. Cal could get on base when we needed it but i dont remember him being big home run guy averave at best. Please correct me if im wrong.

I think you're forgetting the combination of era and position at the time he broke into the league. Ernie Banks hit for power in the late 50s and early 60s (before moving to 1st Base). His time in the league was followed by 2 decades of short stops who rarely had a showed the ability to it as many as 10 HRs. Then came Cal. He showed power at a position where there was none. He was never a threat to win a HR crown, but hitting in the upper 20s through the 80s, when the HR crown winners were barely breaking 40 was a show of power. 

It is hard to think of it that way, since Ripken was followed by Jeter and then Rodreguez and the entire steroid inflated HR totals. In retrospect and looking at it through the view of the time he played, he was indeed a hitter with notable power. 

I respect this post!

[mearzunkies]

  1 hour ago, pizzle9249 said:

When was Cal Ripken considerded a power hitter? I think he was good but not a power hitter. When I think of a power hitter i think of Sammy Sosa, Mark Maguare, or even Frank Thomas. Cal could get on base when we needed it but i dont remember him being big home run guy averave at best. Please correct me if im wrong.

He set a record of consecutive seasons with 20+HR for a SS (10 seasons, including a 34HR season). And you have to keep a few things in perspective for Cal's era. Guys jacking out 30-40+HR in the early 80's before the "live ball era" of the 90's was not common. Sosa was a RFer, McGwire and Thomas were 1B/DH and considered positions of power. In Cal's era when he came up, shortstops were all glove no bat. As long as they could field they got the job. If they could hit anything that was a bonus. They tended to be tiny guys with some speed and range. They weren't 6'4'' 220lbs like Cal. They didn't hit 20HR a season. Cal has over 3,000 hits and 431HR which ranks him 24th of all current Hall of Famers. That's not even accounting for Ripken's defense. He set a record for fewest errors in a season (3 in 161 games) and highest fielding percentage in a season (.996) and oddly enough he didn't win a gold glove that year. It instead went to Ozzie Guillen who made 17 errors.

Anyway, this is a thread about Phelps and the Ravens so I don't want to diverge too far off that topic.

I'd say that was back to elementary school for pizzle9249!

[BmoreB]

3 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

This is awesome. Phelps has been a regular at Orioles and Ravens events in the past, he's a home town guy, so why not give him a little love here? Maryland can lay claim to a lot of great athletes over the years in many different arenas. I am not up to snuff on my Olympic medal winners, but here are some names of some of our great champs:

Heavyweight Boxing Champ: Hasim Rahman
Mutliple weight champion & listed as one of the 5 best figthers all time: Sugar Ray Leonard (move to Palmer Park, MD at a young age and calls it home.)

Brooks Robinson: Arguably one of the best ever to play 3B, from Arkansas, he spent a 23 year MLB Career with the Orioles.

Cal Ripken Jr: One of the best ever to play SS and pioneered the age of the big, power hitting SS mold.

Johnny "U": Need I say more? Born in PA, but will ever be a Baltimore Colt
Ray Lewis: One of the best ever MLB
Ed Reed: One of the best ever Safeties
Jon Ogden: One of the best ever LT

I could go on, but these are just some of the names. These guys made Maryland proud. We're small in size, but we are big on heart.

You left out the biggest name of all. Don't get me wrong I know this wasn't what you were going for exactly but we can certainly lay claim to the greatest baseball player ever, Babe Ruth.

[n#7]

  10 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

This is awesome. Phelps has been a regular at Orioles and Ravens events in the past, he's a home town guy, so why not give him a little love here? Maryland can lay claim to a lot of great athletes over the years in many different arenas. I am not up to snuff on my Olympic medal winners, but here are some names of some of our great champs:

Heavyweight Boxing Champ: Hasim Rahman
Mutliple weight champion & listed as one of the 5 best figthers all time: Sugar Ray Leonard (move to Palmer Park, MD at a young age and calls it home.)

Brooks Robinson: Arguably one of the best ever to play 3B, from Arkansas, he spent a 23 year MLB Career with the Orioles.

Cal Ripken Jr: One of the best ever to play SS and pioneered the age of the big, power hitting SS mold.

Johnny "U": Need I say more? Born in PA, but will ever be a Baltimore Colt
Ray Lewis: One of the best ever MLB
Ed Reed: One of the best ever Safeties
Jon Ogden: One of the best ever LT

I could go on, but these are just some of the names. These guys made Maryland proud. We're small in size, but we are big on heart.

You left out the biggest name of all. Don't get me wrong I know this wasn't what you were going for exactly but we can certainly lay claim to the greatest baseball player ever, Babe Ruth.

At least it was the Red Sox and not B'More that traded him away. "The Great Bambino" "The Sultan of Swat" etc. etc.

[rmcjacket23]

  15 hours ago, pizzle9249 said:

When was Cal Ripken considerded a power hitter? I think he was good but not a power hitter. When I think of a power hitter i think of Sammy Sosa, Mark Maguare, or even Frank Thomas. Cal could get on base when we needed it but i dont remember him being big home run guy averave at best. Please correct me if im wrong.

For a SS he was man.

Yes, this. For a SS, he was a power hitter. When compared to the entire league itself, he wasn't.

[EvilWayz]

I can appreciate them showing the Michael Phelps race, the guy is a huge part of the Baltimore Raven family. I wish him the best. I do have a suggestion though.

At one of the preseason games during a commercial, or maybe the last one they show a highlight reel of the 2000 Baltimore Ravens to show the heart and determination of what our defense is supposed to do or supposed to look. A good hard look at of what a defense working together can do for a team.

Maybe show a reel of when we won the Super Bowl. Through injuries and when everybody said we wouldn't make it that year and we did. It shows the level of play we've been playing with lately is not Baltimore football. The passion of the game the guys actually wanted to play. I think it would light some type of fire under this team. Its just a suggestion.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

5 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yes, this. For a SS, he was a power hitter. When compared to the entire league itself, he wasn't.

He's a power hitter compared to other Hall of Famers and he has the most HR out of any true SS. He is ranked 24th out of all hall of famers in HR. Think about that. Only 23 people in the entire history of baseball's Hall of Fame hit more HR than Cal Ripken. Ernie Banks actually played more seasons at 1B than SS. A-Rod played a lot of his career, at least half of it, at 3B. In the 80's era when he entered the league, 20HR was a lot for anyone to hit. It wasn't until the juice started flowing in the mid 90's that HR stats went ballistic.

Edited August 11, 2016 by EdTheMythicalOne

[rmcjacket23]

21 minutes ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

He's a power hitter compared to other Hall of Famers and he has the most HR out of any true SS. He is ranked 24th out of all hall of famers in HR. Think about that. Only 23 people in the entire history of baseball's Hall of Fame hit more HR than Cal Ripken. Ernie Banks actually played more seasons at 1B than SS. A-Rod played a lot of his career, at least half of it, at 3B. In the 80's era when he entered the league, 20HR was a lot for anyone to hit. It wasn't until the juice started flowing in the mid 90's that HR stats went ballistic.

Yeah, you are whiffing on context in a BIG way on this one.

1. Games played. That's the focus here. I'm not sure if you are aware, but Cal Ripken Jr. kind of played in a lot of baseball games. Compared to other HOFs, for example, he played in a LOT more games. Guys that play more games tend to hit more homeruns, for obvious reasons.

In order to be able to accurately compare him to other people, like his peers, you would need to look at him on a HR per AB perspective, because, again, a guy who has, like Cal, over 11,000 ABs, would be expected to hit more HRs than a guy like Lou Gehrig, who had only 8,000 ABs. 

On a per AB basis, Cal ranks 378th all time. That's in the Buster Posey/Matt Wieters/Robinson Cano level range in terms of HRs/AB. Technically, you could do a better comparison if you look at actual plate appearances, but I didn't dig that deeply and I would suspect the numbers wouldn't change that much. 

Cal averaged a HR per 26.8 AB, which is nothing special looking in the present and in the past.

That's sort of the key here... we would expect Cal to be ranked highly in HRs... he ranks 4th all time in ABs. It would be kind of hard not to hit 400+ HRs when you have over 11,000 ABs. Just on sheer volume alone its going to happen.

2. You are dramatically exaggerating your "20 HRs was a lot in the 80s" theory, and it just doesn't hold up to actual data.

1981 - 10 players hit 20 HRs, 1 player hit 30 HRs

1982 - 51 players hit 20 HRs, 16 players hit 30 HRs

1983 - 50 players hit 20 HRs, 11 players hit 30 HRs

1984 - 45 players hit 20 HRs, 10 players hit 30 HRs

1985 - 59 players hit 20 HRs, 13 players hit 30 HRs

1986 - 60 players hit 20 HRs, 13 players hit 30 HRs

1987 - 79 players hit 20 HRs, 28 players hit 30 HRs

1988 - 45 players hit 20 HRs, 5 players hit 30 HRs

1989 - 38 players hit 20 HRs, 10 players hit 30 HRs

So during Cal's tenure in the league in the 80s, you're looking at roughly 50 players per season who were hitting 20 HRs. That's not a small number... that's a pretty good sized numbers. Its a relatively small number compared to future decades, but its still not a small numbers. If 50 MLB players are doing anything in a single season, its not that impressive.

The more accurate measurement would be 30 HRs, where you're averaging about a dozen players per season hitting 30 HRs. Considering Cal never once hit 30 HRs in any season in the 80s, and only did it once during the "live ball" era, kind of hard to argue he's a power hitter when compared to ALL positions, regardless of whether its HOFs or non-HOFs. Even in the 80s, when he was hitting in the 20-30 HR range consistently per season, he was typically in the 15-20th range of HR hitters for that season. That's not "power hitter" territory in any year.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

8 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yeah, you are whiffing on context in a BIG way on this one.

1. Games played. That's the focus here. I'm not sure if you are aware, but Cal Ripken Jr. kind of played in a lot of baseball games. Compared to other HOFs, for example, he played in a LOT more games. Guys that play more games tend to hit more homeruns, for obvious reasons.

In order to be able to accurately compare him to other people, like his peers, you would need to look at him on a HR per AB perspective, because, again, a guy who has, like Cal, over 11,000 ABs, would be expected to hit more HRs than a guy like Lou Gehrig, who had only 8,000 ABs. 

On a per AB basis, Cal ranks 378th all time. That's in the Buster Posey/Matt Wieters/Robinson Cano level range in terms of HRs/AB. Technically, you could do a better comparison if you look at actual plate appearances, but I didn't dig that deeply and I would suspect the numbers wouldn't change that much. 

Cal averaged a HR per 26.8 AB, which is nothing special looking in the present and in the past.

That's sort of the key here... we would expect Cal to be ranked highly in HRs... he ranks 4th all time in ABs. It would be kind of hard not to hit 400+ HRs when you have over 11,000 ABs. Just on sheer volume alone its going to happen.

2. You are dramatically exaggerating your "20 HRs was a lot in the 80s" theory, and it just doesn't hold up to actual data.

1981 - 10 players hit 20 HRs, 1 player hit 30 HRs

1982 - 51 players hit 20 HRs, 16 players hit 30 HRs

1983 - 50 players hit 20 HRs, 11 players hit 30 HRs

1984 - 45 players hit 20 HRs, 10 players hit 30 HRs

1985 - 59 players hit 20 HRs, 13 players hit 30 HRs

1986 - 60 players hit 20 HRs, 13 players hit 30 HRs

1987 - 79 players hit 20 HRs, 28 players hit 30 HRs

1988 - 45 players hit 20 HRs, 5 players hit 30 HRs

1989 - 38 players hit 20 HRs, 10 players hit 30 HRs

So during Cal's tenure in the league in the 80s, you're looking at roughly 50 players per season who were hitting 20 HRs. That's not a small number... that's a pretty good sized numbers. Its a relatively small number compared to future decades, but its still not a small numbers. If 50 MLB players are doing anything in a single season, its not that impressive.

The more accurate measurement would be 30 HRs, where you're averaging about a dozen players per season hitting 30 HRs. Considering Cal never once hit 30 HRs in any season in the 80s, and only did it once during the "live ball" era, kind of hard to argue he's a power hitter when compared to ALL positions, regardless of whether its HOFs or non-HOFs. Even in the 80s, when he was hitting in the 20-30 HR range consistently per season, he was typically in the 15-20th range of HR hitters for that season. That's not "power hitter" territory in any year.

I don't know if you knew this or not, but there is a reason why Cal played so many games. Because he played them all in a row and beat Lou Gehrig's streak. And if only 50 players a year are doing something and there are, I dunno, about 750-800 players in the league and you're one of the 50 best, I think you're something special. If you don't think Cal Ripken was a power hitter then by all means feel free to do so. I've said all I need to about this topic and I think we should just end it here so that the thread can go on about Phelps and the Ravens. Thank you.

[rmcjacket23]

8 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

I don't know if you knew this or not, but there is a reason why Cal played so many games. Because he played them all in a row and beat Lou Gehrig's streak. And if only 50 players a year are doing something and there are, I dunno, about 750-800 players in the league and you're one of the 50 best, I think you're something special. If you don't think Cal Ripken was a power hitter then by all means feel free to do so. I've said all I need to about this topic and I think we should just end it here so that the thread can go on about Phelps and the Ravens. Thank you.

So you agree then. He hit a lot of HRs because he played in a lot of games, not because he was a power hitter.

In 2015, for example, there were 64 players in MLB who hit 20 HRs, That list includes guys like Brandon Crawford, and I seriously doubt any reasonable person on the planet thinks Brandon Crawford is a "power hitter" because he did something only 64 players in a season did.

That doesn't make you one of the 64 best players... all it makes you is one of the 64 guys who hit the most HRs, with HRs because one of a large amount of statistical categories that are relevant to baseball.

My advice... if you're going to argue a topic, you might not want to use arbitrary measurements that you conjured out of thin air to support your argument. It doesn't help it, it weakens it.

I would almost bet that Cal Ripken himself would laugh at the notion of him being a power hitter. He would say the same thing others have said... he was considered a power hitter purely in the context of the position he played, but not anywhere close to one compared to the totality of the league.

[pizzle9249]

I stand corrected and in my defence I was born in 81 so I mostly remember after his brother and dad quit