Training Camp/Preseason HYPE discussion thread

[rmw10]

13 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I agree and the thing i like about Butler this year as opposed to last year, is how the coaches are talking about him. Last year it was a lot of praise but nothing was really said imo. He's having a great camp, yeah but what does that really mean? Yes he made some big plays and tough catches in practice but was he really a guy who was ready for the 53?

This year is a different Butler imo and I think the last 8 games he played last year helped a ton. Trestman spoke about how Butler has matured and continues to get better at his route running and explosiveness. The way both Harbs and Engram spoke about him was almost in the tone of....yeah we know what Butler can do in practice and we're tired of waiting. Go show us in game action. 

 

I think that field experience last year was a big key for him.  He's always been one that I've wanted to put on this roster, but I was just having trouble finding the room for him.  The injuries have definitely opened up the door for him, and now it's on him to go out and perform this preseason and earn it.  He reminds me a lot of Aiken in playing style and even upbringing in a sense.

[Ravensfan23]

13 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I think that field experience last year was a big key for him.  He's always been one that I've wanted to put on this roster, but I was just having trouble finding the room for him.  The injuries have definitely opened up the door for him, and now it's on him to go out and perform this preseason and earn it.  He reminds me a lot of Aiken in playing style and even upbringing in a sense.

Yes I definitely see Aiken in him and I can see a Butler being that guy to step into that Aiken role if he does happen to leave in FA. But for this year I definitely think there's a place for him. Someone mention seeing if he's an RS option and I'd agree. If that's a way to get even more value out of him then go for it. I think he fits what Trestman wants to do in this offense and could really rack up they yac. 

He could really separate himself on Thursday night. Let's see how he performs.  

[JoeyFlex5]

Would be funny if our top 2 wrs come seasons end were total nobodies for years and just blossomed into starters for us, what a change of pace that would be.. But that what also be bad news for perriman so I hope.not lol.

[Ravensfan23]

5 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Would be funny if our top 2 wrs come seasons end were total nobodies for years and just blossomed into starters for us, what a change of pace that would be.. But that what also be bad news for perriman so I hope.not lol.

If Perriman plays and turns into the guy the FO hopes he'll be. I think a WR corp of Perriman, Aiken, Moore Butler and Camp/Reyonlds would be a really good young group to go along with Dixon in the backfield and a combination of Williams and Gilmore or Williams and Waller at TE. 

Obviously all these guys probably won't pan out and so much still has to be proven in real games and high pressure situations. But this is a hype threat so i'm allowed to get excited about potential. 

I'm excited to see all these guys in the preseason. 

[Passepartout]

Ravens Fan you are the expert. And really think that you are right about the W.R. corps there.

[Edgar]

Za'Darius Smith is going to be a fan favorite. Just a cool guy who seems like a Raven.

Expecting a big year.

[JoeyFlex5]

7 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

If Perriman plays and turns into the guy the FO hopes he'll be. I think a WR corp of Perriman, Aiken, Moore Butler and Camp/Reyonlds would be a really good young group to go along with Dixon in the backfield and a combination of Williams and Gilmore or Williams and Waller at TE. 

Obviously all these guys probably won't pan out and so much still has to be proven in real games and high pressure situations. But this is a hype threat so i'm allowed to get excited about potential. 

I'm excited to see all these guys in the preseason. 

I was referring to our 2 starting wrs being butler and aiken, if butler were to break out like aiken did last year. And I wasnt saying it will happen.. At all lol. Just saying wouldn't it be funny if we failed so horribly to develop wrs for years and then suddenly we develop 2 nobodies into starters

[Guest]

Butler was a Undrafted Free Agent.  Injured his first year.  He saw some time last year when our receivers went down. He caught some balls.

And it has come to this. More than anything this topic illustrates just how sad a state of affairs our receiving corps is in. Seriously, how do we compete with teams when we offer up guys like  Aiken and Butler?  Over the course of a season, does anyone believe we stand as good a chance to win games going in with what is being discussed here? You can't keep going into games against Cincinnati and Pittsburgh undermanned like that.

And before you jump on me for being honest, consider what Harbaugh said a couple days ago in regard to the Wide Receivers. He said, we cannot wait on potential. We will keep playmakers, they have to make plays.

 

Edited August 10, 2016 by Danny D

[BmoreBird22]

9 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

I saw the same thing the Miami Dolphins organization saw when they decided they didn't feel like paying him what he clearly wasn't worth to them and let him walk. If he was doing as well as you say he was, why did they let him go? By the way, you really shouldn't assume things. If you want to be hyped up on Mike Wallace, all for it. I think there is reason for some concern and if you don't agree with me that is perfectly fine. Doesn't mean I'm right, doesn't mean I am wrong. We just disagree.

Being worth $12M (which would have put him in the top 5 average receiver salary not including tagged players) and being a good player are two entirely different things.

That contract was doomed to fail from the second that he signed it. Doesn't mean he wasn't playing well (again, doubt you watched Miami games consistently), just means he wasn't an elite talent, which I think everyone saw the second he signed that contract.

[BmoreBird22]

22 minutes ago, Danny D said:

Butler was a Undrafted Free Agent.  Injured his first year.  He saw some time last year when our receivers went down. He caught some balls.

And it has come to this. More than anything this topic illustrates just how sad a state of affairs our receiving corps is in. Seriously, how do we compete with teams when we offer up guys like  Aiken and Butler?  Over the course of a season, does anyone believe we stand as good a chance to win games going in with what is being discussed here? You can't keep going into games against Cincinnati and Pittsburgh undermanned like that.

And before you jump on me for being honest, consider what Harbaugh said a couple days ago in regard to the Wide Receivers. He said, we cannot wait on potential. We will keep playmakers, they have to make plays.

 

It's a real sad state of affairs when people talk up Butler with the real possibility to be the fifth or sixth wide receiver? Well, I guess you have to be negative about everything or it won't fit your mantra.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

I saw the same thing the Miami Dolphins organization saw when they decided they didn't feel like paying him what he clearly wasn't worth to them and let him walk. If he was doing as well as you say he was, why did they let him go? By the way, you really shouldn't assume things. If you want to be hyped up on Mike Wallace, all for it. I think there is reason for some concern and if you don't agree with me that is perfectly fine. Doesn't mean I'm right, doesn't mean I am wrong. We just disagree.

We need chemistry and the dynamic playmaker.  The Flacco Wallace connection has a chance to bring that. It's looked pretty good in practice and if it doesn't work out, at least they tried.

[The Mom Gene]

15 hours ago, berad said:

I think you jumped in the wrong thread, Mom Gene! LOL

The game thread had just opened up Berad?.

[Ravensfan23]

1 hour ago, Danny D said:

Butler was a Undrafted Free Agent.  Injured his first year.  He saw some time last year when our receivers went down. He caught some balls.

And it has come to this. More than anything this topic illustrates just how sad a state of affairs our receiving corps is in. Seriously, how do we compete with teams when we offer up guys like  Aiken and Butler?  Over the course of a season, does anyone believe we stand as good a chance to win games going in with what is being discussed here? You can't keep going into games against Cincinnati and Pittsburgh undermanned like that.

And before you jump on me for being honest, consider what Harbaugh said a couple days ago in regard to the Wide Receivers. He said, we cannot wait on potential. We will keep playmakers, they have to make plays.

 

I get what you're saying but Harbs also said he's excited about Butler because they've been waiting on him and others and now is the time to show and prove. 

If Butler and anyone else can make plays why do it matter where they were drafted? It's not like the team hasn't drafted for position. If draft position mattered Tandon Doss would have been good. The Ravens have drafted and attacked FA for the position, if Aiken and Butler are the only ones who stay healthy and produce when given the opportunity they should play. Period. 

It's not like the Ravens said oh we don't need help at the position because we have UDFA who we think are good. It just so happen that along with Wallace, they are to two WR who are AVAILABLE every practice and are making plays for the coaches and Flacco. 

[ludy51]

2 hours ago, Danny D said:

Butler was a Undrafted Free Agent.  Injured his first year.  He saw some time last year when our receivers went down. He caught some balls.

And it has come to this. More than anything this topic illustrates just how sad a state of affairs our receiving corps is in. Seriously, how do we compete with teams when we offer up guys like  Aiken and Butler?  Over the course of a season, does anyone believe we stand as good a chance to win games going in with what is being discussed here? You can't keep going into games against Cincinnati and Pittsburgh undermanned like that.

And before you jump on me for being honest, consider what Harbaugh said a couple days ago in regard to the Wide Receivers. He said, we cannot wait on potential. We will keep playmakers, they have to make plays.

 

Yeah. Always need to be in peak condition against PIT for sure.....

Edited August 10, 2016 by ludy51

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

15 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

You can't pretend the Miami and Minnesota days didn't happen, that was then, and this is now with an older and self-admittedly slower Mike Wallace. We'll see which one he is when the games actually count.

Wallace during his time in Miami and Minnesota still averaged about 50 catches, 800 yds and 6 TDs.

We've literally considered it very good if our 2nd receiver has been able to put up those types of numbers, and sometimes even our top WR has only been a bit better than that.

If we get that production from our 3rd or 4th WR, are you suggesting thats not great value? Arriving late so just trying to understand the context here. If all Wallace does is be his average self from his most recent "down" years, then we will have maybe the most production we've ever gotten from our 3rd WR.

Not to mention hes in a much better situation here. This offense suits his skill set better, so adjusting for some drop off to age but an increase due to scheme fit and a QB that can exploit his strengths - I'm expecting more of the same, which I'll be completely happy with so long as its his average self, not the untapped and often avoided version from last year.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

2 hours ago, Danny D said:

Butler was a Undrafted Free Agent.  Injured his first year.  He saw some time last year when our receivers went down. He caught some balls.

And it has come to this. More than anything this topic illustrates just how sad a state of affairs our receiving corps is in. Seriously, how do we compete with teams when we offer up guys like  Aiken and Butler?  Over the course of a season, does anyone believe we stand as good a chance to win games going in with what is being discussed here? You can't keep going into games against Cincinnati and Pittsburgh undermanned like that.

And before you jump on me for being honest, consider what Harbaugh said a couple days ago in regard to the Wide Receivers. He said, we cannot wait on potential. We will keep playmakers, they have to make plays.

 

Were we not perennial contenders with the likes of Mason, Clayton, Demetrius Williams, Kelley Washington, an over-the-hill TJ Housh, David Reed, an Anquan Boldin that never topped 1k yards while here, a useful but one-dimensional Torrey Smith, Marlon Brown, etc... etc.... etc....

Aiken is arguably better than every got on that list except Boldin and Mason. SSS is the best, but there are legitimate questions as to what we'll get from him this year. Wallace fits right in there and is toward the upper tier of that list. Perriman probably has the most raw ability of anyone on the list including Boldin, Mason, and SSS - though thats not to say theres even a decent chance he becomes a better player than them... just that he's entering the league with a better box of tools.

Out of fairness i wont even mention Camp, Moore, Butler, Matthews and the like because theyre complete unknowns for whatever number of reasons.... although anyone who has seen him play knows Camps potential is through the roof if he can just stay on the field. But, until he overcomes that he cant be counted on.

Then of course theres Pitta - who before injury was in the argument for best receiving TE out of the slot, especially on 3rd downs and in the red zone. And Watson, Gillmore, and Maxx are all starters in the league.

By my count, even if you throw out SSS, Perriman, Camp, and the others - you still have arguably our best assembled cast of weapons in recent history. Yea, maybe thats an indictment on the talent we've had in the past at the skill positions, but we've been highly competitive and won a Super Bowl with worse.

And, its not exactly a long shot that something actually goes our way and we do get solid contributions from SSS, Perriman, Camp, etc... and in the event that Perriman blossoms right away, SSS resumes right where he left off, and Camp gets healthy - this group has a sneaky chance to be among the best in the league bc of the depth. We may not have the top end guy that can routinely beat double teams or even a top corner 1on1...

But with so many guys that are about league average starter ability... somewhere down the line we're gonna get an average league starter 1on1 with a scrub 5th DB or TE on a 3rd safety/thumper of a linebacker. And thats where we win, bc its a game of match ups.

And on every offensive play, we need the line to hold just long enough for one guy to win his match up and we matriculate the ball down the field. TOUCHDOWN. Ravens win.

Simple.