2016 Ravens Defense

[The Raven]

46 minutes ago, Danny D said:

You're killing me. What is going on with you folks?

It's all related.....Read well, think clearly, observe accurately, write with precision, speak with clarity. Brevity becomes the soul of wit. And when you have the whole package down, it becomes possible to see the future without confusion or bias. Until one has the whole package down, one is merely guessing. 

How did you get hung up on Pro Bowls when the only issue was related to increased level play from our "also rans" roster?  I'll spell it out..."Also Ran" is a term for horses that didn't finish 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th in their last race.  They competed but they did not distinguish themselves.  We have a lot of Also Rans. Mosley and Williams are not such.

Now, I'm not here to educate you. I don't care. What I care about is the deterioration of the Baltimore Ravens. But if you can't discern the topic, stop questioning me.

Could you spare our souls and make your posts a little more brief? Your ostentatious, long-winded grandstanding is obnoxious, not to mention ironic in this case.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

11 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Could you spare our souls and make your posts a little more brief? Your ostentatious, long-winded grandstanding is obnoxious, not to mention ironic in this case.

So what you're saying is...

"That man uses more words to say less than any man I have ever seen?".

 

ironic since he said it about my posts

[The Raven]

6 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

So what you're saying is...

"That man uses more words to say less than any man I have ever seen?".

 

ironic since he said it about my posts

That's exactly what I'm saying. 

Before we get too off topic, I want to say here that I have extremely high hopes for this year's D. We haven't had this much athleticism in our front seven in a damn long time. Our rookie defenders - namely Correa, Bronson Kaufusi, Willie Henry, and Judon - are physical specimens and were all productive in college. Barring injury, they will be a hell of a core on D, somewhat in line with the obtaining of Ray Lewis, Peter Boulware, and Jamie Sharper. I don't want to imply that they're Ray Lewis good, but that we got all these high potential, high athleticism guys in the same draft gives me a shit ton of hope for our 2017, 2018. and 2019 defenses.

The NFL is getting faster. Last year, many on this site laughed off an article claiming we were one of the slowest teams in the NFL. Well, it showed on the field. We were slow on D, and we suffered for it. Clearly, the FO thought so too. Everyone we drafted is an athlete.

Edited July 26, 2016 by The Raven

[Tank 92]

3 minutes ago, The Raven said:

That's exactly what I'm saying. 

Before we get too off topic, I want to say here that I have extremely high hopes for this year's D. We haven't had this much athleticism in our front seven in a damn long time. Our rookie defenders - namely Correa, Bronson Kaufusi, Willie Henry, and Judon - are physical specimens and were all productive in college. Barring injury, they will be a hell of a core on D, somewhat in line with the obtaining of Ray Lewis, Peter Boulware, and Jamie Sharper. I don't want to imply that they're Ray Lewis good, but that we got all these high potential, high athleticism guys in the same draft gives me a shit ton of hope for our 2017, 2018. and 2019 defenses.

The NFL is getting faster. Last year, many on this site laughed off an article claiming we were one of the slowest teams in the NFL. Well, it showed on the field. We were slow on D, and we suffered for it. Clearly, the FO thought so too. Everyone we drafted is an athlete.

This pretty much mirrors my thoughts. 

Edited July 26, 2016 by Tank 92

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Just now, The Raven said:

That's exactly what I'm saying. 

Before we get too off topic, I want to say here that I have extremely high hopes for this year's D. We haven't had this much athleticism in our front seven in a damn long time. Our rookie defenders - namely Correa, Bronson Kaufusi, Willie Henry, and Judon - are physical specimens and were all productive in college. Barring injury, they will be a hell of a core on D, somewhat in line with the obtaining of Ray Lewis, Peter Boulware, and Jamie Sharper. 

The NFL is getting faster. Last year, many on this site laughed off an article claiming we were one of the slowest teams in the NFL. Well, it showed on the field. We were slow on D, and we suffered for it. Clearly, the FO thought so too. Everyone we drafted is an athlete.

I agree wholeheartedly. Though I do have long term concerns about Correa. The skills are there for him to be a good player but I'm not sure it pans out. Contrastly, I'm more than confident in our abilities to develop dlinemen so I'm thrilled to think about Bronson and Henry. Even though Jernigan in the eyes of one poster is a disappointment, he and Williams have turned out pretty well.

 

judon is a massive wildcard but hey, he's a 5th round rookie. Not expecting him to be a megastar 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

6 minutes ago, The Raven said:

That's exactly what I'm saying. 

Before we get too off topic, I want to say here that I have extremely high hopes for this year's D. We haven't had this much athleticism in our front seven in a damn long time. Our rookie defenders - namely Correa, Bronson Kaufusi, Willie Henry, and Judon - are physical specimens and were all productive in college. Barring injury, they will be a hell of a core on D, somewhat in line with the obtaining of Ray Lewis, Peter Boulware, and Jamie Sharper. 

The NFL is getting faster. Last year, many on this site laughed off an article claiming we were one of the slowest teams in the NFL. Well, it showed on the field. We were slow on D, and we suffered for it. Clearly, the FO thought so too. Everyone we drafted is an athlete.

To add on btw. What do you think of our secondary next season. Sure in theory an improved pass rush should help but are you as skeptical as I am about Webb at FS and Powers probably getting the starting job

[redrum52]

11 minutes ago, The Raven said:

That's exactly what I'm saying. 

Before we get too off topic, I want to say here that I have extremely high hopes for this year's D. We haven't had this much athleticism in our front seven in a damn long time. Our rookie defenders - namely Correa, Bronson Kaufusi, Willie Henry, and Judon - are physical specimens and were all productive in college. Barring injury, they will be a hell of a core on D, somewhat in line with the obtaining of Ray Lewis, Peter Boulware, and Jamie Sharper. I don't want to imply that they're Ray Lewis good, but that we got all these high potential, high athleticism guys in the same draft gives me a shit ton of hope for our 2017, 2018. and 2019 defenses.

The NFL is getting faster. Last year, many on this site laughed off an article claiming we were one of the slowest teams in the NFL. Well, it showed on the field. We were slow on D, and we suffered for it. Clearly, the FO thought so too. Everyone we drafted is an athlete.

People really laughed at the fact we were slow?  We've been a slow defender for years.  I've been saying we need more athletes for a while, on both sides.

[The Raven]

6 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

To add on btw. What do you think of our secondary next season. Sure in theory an improved pass rush should help but are you as skeptical as I am about Webb at FS and Powers probably getting the starting job

If Charles Woodson's career taught me anything about the FS position it's that the value of football IQ, fundamentals, and chemistry cannot be understated. I have confidence that Webb will excel at FS, and I think Weddle will be a great safety for a season. Ideally, we only have them as a pair for one season, since they're both over the age hill. I'd like for us to find one young guy that gets a number of starts on the field with Webb or Weddle. We need a young guy to develop and become a cornerstone. What scares me about an old safety tandem is not the age now, but the inexperience later.

At corner, I really like Powers, and I feel like Shareece Wright can be a solid contributor. I like Will Davis a lot, especially with Leslie Frazier coaching. Will Davis kind of exemplifies what a tampa 2 zone corner looks like. He's not the best - that's not what I'm saying - but his athleticism, play style, and skill set suits him to the style of D I think Frazier and Pees want to play this year.

 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

10 minutes ago, The Raven said:

If Charles Woodson's career taught me anything about the FS position it's that the value of football IQ, fundamentals, and chemistry cannot be understated. I have confidence that Webb will excel at FS, and I think Weddle will be a great safety for a season. Ideally, we only have them as a pair for one season, since they're both over the age hill. I'd like for us to find one young guy that gets a number of starts on the field with Webb or Weddle. We need a young guy to develop and become a cornerstone. What scares me about an old safety tandem is not the age now, but the inexperience later.

At corner, I really like Powers, and I feel like Shareece Wright can be a solid contributor. I like Will Davis a lot, especially with Leslie Frazier coaching. Will Davis kind of exemplifies what a tampa 2 zone corner looks like. He's not the best - that's not what I'm saying - but his athleticism, play style, and skill set suits him to the style of D I think Frazier and Pees want to play this year.

 

I like Davis a lot too, and I think Frazier being here will do wonders for all the corners, not just Davis. I'm not a Dean Pees fan but I'm one who isn't exactly against him. I honestly think we can do better, and hope Frazier can eventually take over/doesn't leave in the future like we've had other guys do lol. 

 

So. To continue with you having high hopes for the defense, that's why I said that this draft has the potential to make this team great again(don't comment on that...Not what I meant lol). As I've said in the past, you need three things to have a successful team. Franchise QB(we have that), strong play in the trenches, and an identity. Hopefully this draft gives us a boost for both. This could be a draft that gets us to the super bowl. 

[The Raven]

1 minute ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

I like Davis a lot too, and I think Frazier being here will do wonders for all the corners, not just Davis. I'm not a Dean Pees fan but I'm one who isn't exactly against him. I honestly think we can do better, and hope Frazier can eventually take over/doesn't leave in the future like we've had other guys do lol. 

 

So. To continue with you having high hopes for the defense, that's why I said that this draft has the potential to make this team great again(don't comment on that...Not what I meant lol). As I've said in the past, you need three things to have a successful team. Franchise QB(we have that), strong play in the trenches, and an identity. Hopefully this draft gives us a boost for both. This could be a draft that gets us to the super bowl. 

Precisely. Agreed on all.

As for Pees, I think this is the first time he has the personnel we need for his style. A secondary that attacks, an athletic front that can get pressure with four, and linebackers that can actually cover.

[omar586]

might better than last year.

 

 

 

 

 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

19 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Precisely. Agreed on all.

As for Pees, I think this is the first time he has the personnel we need for his style. A secondary that attacks, an athletic front that can get pressure with four, and linebackers that can actually cover.

Well... That last part depends on CJ's development. I think Correa can turn into a good coverage backer but there is a chance that CJ doesn't develop. 

Our biggest needs going into the season after the one we are going to play might end up being MLB. 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

50 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

 We've been a slow defender for years..

Well that would explain the problem of our defense. We can't play defense with only one guy

[Tru11]

looking at who we have id say its potential is top 10 if healthy but realistically will be around the top 10 to top 15 spot.

we might have a lot of athletic guys but we lack high IQ players TBH.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

1 hour ago, Tru11 said:

looking at who we have id say its potential is top 10 if healthy but realistically will be around the top 10 to top 15 spot.

we might have a lot of athletic guys but we lack high IQ players TBH.

Funny, we had Ray and Ed in their primes and then Jarret Johnson. That was about it. Nowadays we got CJ, and while he's not anywhere near Ray and Ed, who's football IQs were untouchable. But CJ's football IQ is still very high, as is Eric Weddle's. Ladarius Webb has a very high football IQ as well. Those are the positions, especially when our defense is in a 3-4 base, you need high football IQs at. Suggs, Dumervil, Williams, Jernigan, Ngata, Pryce, Gregg, etc are/were attack dogs. They weren't the ones to make the calls like Ray or CJ did. 

I actually agree with you. We need another high IQ guy, but that's not going to happen anytime soon. We needed attack dogs more. We got them. Hopefully in the next draft we get a good MLB. 

Edited July 26, 2016 by LosT_in_TranSlatioN

[JoeyFlex5]

12 hours ago, K-Dog said:

Depleted Swiss cheese secondary.  One of the best QB's in the game.

Go figure. 

I see you missed the rest of the post where I explained the long track record...

[purplepittabread88]

I am really interested to see where the rookies end up playing and how much they play. I thought we drafted Correa to replace Upshaws role but it seems he is playing inside backer? If anyone has idea to what position he is going to play update me because honestly I'm baffled lol.I am actually a bit scared for our run defense. Upshaw is a big loss on the edge, we only know of one inside backer (CJ) and neither webb or Weddle are good against the run. At the second and third level opposing backs could definitely do some damage. 

[Tru11]

10 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Funny, we had Ray and Ed in their primes and then Jarret Johnson. That was about it. Nowadays we got CJ, and while he's not anywhere near Ray and Ed, who's football IQs were untouchable. But CJ's football IQ is still very high, as is Eric Weddle's. Ladarius Webb has a very high football IQ as well. Those are the positions, especially when our defense is in a 3-4 base, you need high football IQs at. Suggs, Dumervil, Williams, Jernigan, Ngata, Pryce, Gregg, etc are/were attack dogs. They weren't the ones to make the calls like Ray or CJ did. 

I actually agree with you. We need another high IQ guy, but that's not going to happen anytime soon. We needed attack dogs more. We got them. Hopefully in the next draft we get a good MLB. 

Ngata, Pryce, Woodson, A.Thomas to name few all had very high IQs.
Suggs actually has a pretty high football IQ as well.

Those guys could sniff out plays and are rarely out of position or being taken advantage off.

Weddle sure has a high football IQ but his age might catch up.
Webb has a high football IQ as well but im not so sure if his body can keep up with what he is trying to do.
Same can be said about suggs going into the season.

Jimmy and mosley are the guys im banking on taking the next step to become complete players.

What we need are fundamentally sound players though.

attacks dogs with not much of a brain will be getting ill timed penalties, like late hits and all that kind of crap.....

the reason rex and pagano schemes worked was because we had the 2 greatest players at their position putting people where they needed to be and also coupled them with other smart players.

we really dont have the players to be an over aggressive defense.

i expect a lot of 4 to 5 man rushes rather then all out of blitzes and such this season lol
 

[rmcjacket23]

On 7/25/2016 at 7:45 AM, Danny D said:

Once again, Mosley and Williams are givens.  We have to factor change. However, though they play like Ravens, they are not in the same league as our former stalwarts.

Lets see

Jags 22

Rams 13

Browns 27 (We couldn't contain the Browns last year)

Fins    15

Seahawks 35

Chiefts      34

Steelers    17

Bengals    24

193 second half of season..........to 208 first half?  We did beat the Steelers and regardless of how the season plays out, sweeping them again would be sweet. The D let in 145 yards rushing in the last game when Cinn. had nothing to play for. Little troubling. And DeAngelo Williams got his 100 in our win over the Steelers in week 16.  We won and ran pretty well too. 

We were a middling team on D in 2015, nothing that happened that year is going to elevate us in 2016. It's gonna depend on stepped up play.

Harbaugh stated 2015 was one of the most satisfying years he's ever coached. He's got his guys playing for him now. The kind of guys he likes to coach.

We have lived in the playoffs on the Cleveland Browns. In our Division, sweeping the Browns is a must.  Sweep the Browns, split with the teams that beat us to the Playoffs again and you go 4-2 in division. When we can't sweep the Browns, everything changes. You gotta come out of division 4-2 to have a realistic chance to make the playoffs.

 

 

This one should be fun:

1. As always, you've got to take Points allowed with a grain of salt, especially when you take them as you did with no context. Allow me to be more detailed:

Jags: Jacksonville had two scoring drives in that game that started inside the Ravens 40 yard line as a direct result of Ravens turnovers. That resulted in 10 points. In fact, there was one drive where the Jags kicked a FG after the Ravens defense yielded precisely ZERO yardage. 

So, for argument sake, since the Ravens did give up a TD on the other that probably should have held to a FG, I'll attribute the defense responsible for 4 points there. So that's a 6 point reduction to points allowed.

Browns: Schaub threw a pick-six in this game. There's nothing a defensive unit that isn't on the field can do about this. So that's a 7 point reduction to points allowed.

Dolphins: Schaub threw another pick-six in this game, and the other Dolphins TD was off another Schaub interception that gave the Dolphins the ball inside our own 40. Another drive that the defense could have held to a FG realistically. So that's a 10 point reduction to points allowed.

Seahawks: Two Seattle TDs that come off of Ravens turnovers that gave Seattle the ball inside our 40 yard line (including one at the 14 yard line). Should have held to FGs.  So that's an 8 point reduction to points allowed.

Chiefs: One TD off a non-converted fake punt by the Ravens in our own red zone, giving the Chiefs the ball at the 24 yard line. Probably could have been held to a FG. One TD off a Clausen pick-six while the defense was on the sidelines. So that's a 10 point reduction to points allowed.

Bengals: Mallett INT that led to a TD gave the Bengals ball at the Ravens 34, inside FG range. Defense should have held to a FG. 4 point reduction to points allowed.

So, assuming my math is correct, if we make a couple reasonable assumptions about what even a good defense would do in these circumstances, we would say that roughly 45 of those 2nd half points allowed weren't really attributable to the defense. We know 21 of those points for sure were on pick-sixes from our QBs.

So adjusting the 193 down for actual defensive impact, and you're looking at 148 points allowed in 8 games. Comes out to 18.5 PPG, which over an entire season, would rank them in the top 5 in the league in points allowed. Even if we were to just drop the number down by the 21 points they had nothing to do with, you're at 172 points allowed in 8 games, putting us at 21.5 PPG. That's a top 15 defense in PPG allowed.

In short, a little research and context goes a LONG way.

2. The Steelers made the playoffs last season with a 3-3 divisional record. The Bengals and Ravens both made the playoffs in 2014 with a 3-3 divisional record. The Bengals won the division in 2013 with a 3-3 divisional record, and made the playoffs in 2012 with a 3-3 divisional record AND in 2011 with a 2-4 divisional record.

The AFC North has sent 10 teams to the playoffs in the last five years. Of those, 6 of those teams finished with a divisional record of 3-3 or worse. 

So in short, NO, you do not need to go 4-2 in your division to make the playoffs. Divisional play is important, but its represents 6 of 16 games. There's still 10 other games to be played, and they all matter.

Look at the 2013 Ravens. We had the same divisional record as the Bengals, who won the division and finished 11-5. It was a 3-3 divisional record. Guess what the difference was? We lost to 6-10 Buffalo, Cincinnati didn't. We lost to NE, Cincinnati beat NE. We lost to GB, they beat GB.

Those can be the difference too. 

 

 

[Purple_City39]

22 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Pees defenses have a long long history of giving up late leads, especially in big playoff games. Starting with the 06 patriots who gave up a massive lead in the 2nd half to the colts in the AFCCG, then 18-1, then they missed the playoffs in 08 and got dismantled by us in 09, then came here and gave up a huge lead in the 2nd half vs Pittsburgh to send us home packing(2 turnovers didn't help, but still) and then he finally put together a solid unit in 2011 that lost thanks to cundiff, and then it regressed big time in 2012 and luckily we faced kaepernick who can't throw a touch pass so we escaped that one by the slimmest of margins, 2013 we gave up late game drives seemingly every week but our offense was horrid so I'll let it slide, and then the dumersizzle mcphenom trio carried out defense in 2014. 

Dean Pees has an awful track record and he needs to be fired because we see more of the same year in and year out. His usage of the Pernelephant in 2014 is the highlight of his career.

I never like to defend Pees, but for the bold sections.

2007 - His defense held a superbowl caliber team/offense to 17 points.  17 points that only happened off the strength of a miracle helmet catch and a CB (Asante I think) letting an INT literally go through his hands.

2010 - Yeah, we gave up a nice second half lead to the Steelers in that divisional game.......but the DC was Mattison, not Pees  Pees was LB coach and idk how much blame he can take for a secondary not covering.

2011 - The decent unit that lost it had Pagano calling the shots.

I'm not a fan of Pees either, but you must really dislike him to blame him for games he wasn't the DC of lol

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I feel good about the defense actually. I expect both the pass rush and secondary to improve on their own, which even with slight improvements should compound themselves into both looking noticeably better than in 2015.

I also think that the offense is going to do a much better job at controlling the ball, getting 1st down after 1st down, which will keep the D more fresh. Having a few more leads should also allow the D to play a little more free and take some chances.

 

Kind of on topic but also off a bit... for the people that think this Ravens team is so far off from contending or being playoff caliber.

2015: We played in 14 games decided by on score or less. We won 5 or about 1/3, and went 5-11.

2010: We played in 12 games decided by one score or less. We won 8 or about 2/3 and went 12-4.

2011: We played in 9 games decided by one score or less. We won 7 or just over 2/3 and went 12-4.

 

We werent a team getting blown out. We were a team playing everyone close... at the same clip basically as the 2010 team. We've got to win more of those one score games, and if so it will make a drastic difference. You need leaders late in those close games, you need pass rush to keep pressure on the QB, and we lost the heart of both game 1. You need vital turnovers to get that 1 score that puts you ahead, or that seal the game.

If Suggs is 75-90% his former self we're back to an 8-8, 9-7 team. If Weddle, Webb, Powers, Davis and a healthy Jimmy get the secondary to rebound; and Zadarius, Kaufusi, Correa, Judon, Jernigan, Urban, really even 2 or 3 of those guys can give us something, we're going to be a very good team.

 

Safeties will be better than last year. Weddle>Hill, Webb>Lewis, Lewis>Brooks, and one of Brooks, Levine or Elam should be better than they were last year.

Corners top to bottom should be better than last year. Healthy Jimmy>hurt Jimmy, Wright in 2nd year should be > Wright in 1st year, Powers > Arrington, healthy Davis>IR Davis, etc...

Pass rush should be better top to bottom (Suggs>Doom, Doom>Zadarius, Zadarius>Upshaw, Rookie depth of Correa/Judon/Ochi is > no depth.

One MLB should be worse though Orr was coming in for Smith anyways last year. 

And the Dline is ultimately the same as last year, though Urban has big upside though no one really talks about him. Hes a monster of a man, and has flashed when healthy. Jernigan looks like a new man, and his highs are really high level. With consistency he can be a terror. Williams will do Williams, at the very least equal to last year. Guy is a steady presence and will continue to be. Kaufusi has the potential to be the best in that position group and a terror as an interior/edge rusher. Hopefully Davis improves after fading down the stretch. Willie Henry is an explosive man and could give us something extra in the pass rush department.