Ray Rice

[usmccharles]

10 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

I guess you didn't see Cass' comment. He spelled it out for you. Ray was playing it off like they were both drunk, he slapped her, and then she hit her head. This is a lot different than he slugged her and knocked her out, then she fell like a ton of bricks to the floor and hit her head. Goodell said that the case Ray presented to him was a lot different than what actually had occurred. So you've got the NFL commissioner saying Ray Rice mislead him, and Dick Cass saying the same thing. I'm sorry, but there is nothing more I really need to hear about it.

I was actually at the time calling for calm and to wait for all the details to come out. This was before the second video was released. I thought there was a possibility that since they were both reportedly rather intoxicated that there was a chance that there was some pushing and shoving, Janay being tipsy could have fallen and hit her head and then got knocked out from the fall. I even wrote an article about it for one of the places I worked for at the time.

Then the video came out and removed all doubt. Ray Rice was a punk. This is the Mother of his child. And he flat out decks her with a hard punch. I don't care how much charity work you do and how great your teammates think you are. You punch a woman like that and you're scum.

And yeah, had this incident not happened the Ravens of course would have him back and hope he would regain form. What choice did they really have? They had just inked him to a huge contract and the cost of cutting him would put a lot of money against our cap. Once they realized he would be out for a full year they had no choice. Teams around the league saw his latest performance and the NFL is very much a "what have you done for me lately" business. They also saw the miles on the odometer from college. He's approaching 30. So if you are some team out there do you take a chance on some rookies with no baggage, or an aging back who might be past it with all of his PR baggage? No brainer.

I guess I just didn't read enough into what happened and all the different reports.  And yea I agree there is no reason to sign him over having a rookie now. 

[52520Andrew]

I don't think a team will sign him after the video and they will use his 2013 season as evidence as well as to why it has nothing to do with the video. Plus at this point he has been out of the game long enough that it is less and less likely he finds a new team. Even he I am sure is beginning to accept taking on more of a coaching role recently speaking to rookies at the NFLPA Bowl this year.

I think people that actually followed that 2013 season realize that...

1. Rice was overweight that season at around 220+ pounds

2. He had a hip injury

3. He had horrible blocking

Now it is hard to judge how he would have done in 2014 but he was healthy, would have had much better blocking, and had cut down on the weight. As someone who went to training camp and saw the team practice, he looked pretty good.

Not trying to argue anything huge here but I do think had he not done what he did, he would have gone on to have a comeback year. 

[Ravenseconbeast]

On 7/22/2016 at 0:29 PM, FastEddie said:

Apologize if this topic sounds like an attempt towards beating a dead horse, but I thought I would start a thread just in case this gets more attention towards Ray Rice rejuvenating his career playing.

Especially considering the recent allegations facing Ezekial Elliot...rookie none the less. Does anyone see Ray getting a look in Dallas or anywhere else after the statement he made yesterday?

But everyone saw the video.  That is the difference.  

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Was listening to philly sports radio this weekend... turned it on mid-topic but they were discussing signing Ray Rice.

I dont know if it was reported theyre interested, or if the hosts were just talking about available options since they traded murray, mathews is chronically injured, sproles is more of a gadget player and behind that theres no experience.

But they were talking about how they should be able to handle the PR side after the experience with Vick, Riley Cooper, issues with Shady, etc... Laurie has been a progressive owner giving multiple chances to people and opportunities to change.

We'll see if anything comes of it. I doubt it. But did find it interesting that they were even discussing it. The context could make it more compelling or entirely irrelevant.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

On 7/31/2016 at 3:02 AM, 52520Andrew said:

I don't think a team will sign him after the video and they will use his 2013 season as evidence as well as to why it has nothing to do with the video. Plus at this point he has been out of the game long enough that it is less and less likely he finds a new team. Even he I am sure is beginning to accept taking on more of a coaching role recently speaking to rookies at the NFLPA Bowl this year.

I think people that actually followed that 2013 season realize that...

1. Rice was overweight that season at around 220+ pounds

2. He had a hip injury

3. He had horrible blocking

Now it is hard to judge how he would have done in 2014 but he was healthy, would have had much better blocking, and had cut down on the weight. As someone who went to training camp and saw the team practice, he looked pretty good.

Not trying to argue anything huge here but I do think had he not done what he did, he would have gone on to have a comeback year. 

He was heavier by his personal choice. He decided to bulk up that season in an effort to be able to break more tackles and hold up a bit better to the pounding a bell cow running back takes in the NFL.

I agree that he cut his weight and I do believe he was actually doing pretty well in the preseason games he played in before he was suspended. He probably would have had a decent season. The problem is, he did do what he did, lied about what he did, and then got suspended for what he did.

I am certain most teams won't give him a chance because of the video. Teams would have a lot of explaining to do as to why they let this guy on their team. They'd have even more to explain after a guy that game off a down year and then didn't play for a whole season after that, and is now nearing the stage when RBs go out to pasture and he didn't perform.

I don't feel sorry for Ray Rice. He did something terrible and he deserved to pay the price for it. All the "making up for it" after the fact wasn't going to help him. He made millions of dollars playing a game and he did something to no longer deserve that privilege.

 

[rossihunter2]

10 hours ago, Danny D said:

Ed you sure bit hook, line and sinker on the Domestic Violence Groups position. Come on man.

That video was much too grainy to identify a punch with Ray's back to the camera.  I gotta tell you, you couldn't even identify Ray. If Ray doesn't confess that video ain't enough to convict a man. Your position is that you see punch and definitely not slap?  These two people, whoever they really were, are engaged in a slapping dispute long before they enter the elevator.

I'm not getting into Ray's youth and hurt year.  Believe what you wish.  To me its just more evidence that the Raven's Front Office have lost their collective minds. But then public pressure doesn't faze me. Say and do what's best.

Oh, one other matter. The Raven's after accepting the 2 game suspension voided Ray's contract on Moral Turpitude. (Likely DeCosta again.) Ray sued and received a settlement.

Sorry, after 2 years you're trying to say that it was all a massive conspiracy and ray rice was never in that lift? It's obviously him, it's obviously her, and what happened obviously happened. It's about as clear cut as any instance of domestic violence. To argue slap vs punch etc is meaningless. She was knocked unconscious.

 

You're often contrary Danny d but this time you're borderline offensive.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

10 hours ago, Danny D said:

Ed you sure bit hook, line and sinker on the Domestic Violence Groups position. Come on man.

That video was much too grainy to identify a punch with Ray's back to the camera.  I gotta tell you, you couldn't even identify Ray. If Ray doesn't confess that video ain't enough to convict a man. Your position is that you see punch and definitely not slap?  These two people, whoever they really were, are engaged in a slapping dispute long before they enter the elevator.

I'm not getting into Ray's youth and hurt year.  Believe what you wish.  To me its just more evidence that the Raven's Front Office have lost their collective minds. But then public pressure doesn't faze me. Say and do what's best.

Oh, one other matter. The Raven's after accepting the 2 game suspension voided Ray's contract on Moral Turpitude. (Likely DeCosta again.) Ray sued and received a settlement.

Wow, I did not expect this kind of reply. I didn't buy any narrative by anyone.

First and foremost I will respond by asking you if you ever bothered to watch the actual video? Have you watched the whole thing? Before they got on the elevator, during, and then after?

First the whole incident the lovely character guy Ray Rice spits in Janay's face. Janay in response slaps him and then walks away to get in the elevator. Ray follows her. The video is plenty clear to identify both Ray and Janay and yeah, clearly see that he doesn't hit her just once, but slaps her once and when that didn't "put her in her place" enough for him, he slugged her and knocked her right out.

Now, I don't know how you can try to argue it was not Ray Rice in the video, but just in case you want to try to make that argument...he's caught dragging her out of the same elevator in which he knocked her out. The tape is rolling the whole time. So unless the person you think wasn't Ray did the deed, he must have super human abilities to disappear on film and then get immediately replaced by Ray Rice who is the exact same height, weight, and is wearing the same exact clothing that the "other guy" was wearing.

Ray was still a member of the Ravens and was playing in pre season games while the original suspension came out. They cut him when he was suspended indefinitely once the actual truth came out and not the lies he was spreading about the incident. He did sue the league and won a case simply because the NFL never had suspended a person that harshly for something so despicable before. So Ray got that on a technicality. The NFL has since changed its policy on domestic violence offenses and for good reason. People who do these kinds of things not only do not deserve the privilege of earning millions playing a game, but they should also be in jail. Ray Rice is lucky he's not there right now. He married his victim which now protects him from having her testify under oath against him and he was able to enter a diversionary program. Talk about having some privilege in America? There you go right there. Average person in the world is in the slammer after doing something like that.

How anyone can support Ray Rice after what he did is beyond me, but you are entitled to your own opinion. You're not going to convince me to change my mind on this matter.

[rossihunter2]

2 minutes ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

He married his victim which now protects him from having her testify under oath against him

Not that I'm an expert but I think that isn't law in the state he was tried/convicted etc. in.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

8 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

Not that I'm an expert but I think that isn't law in the state he was tried/convicted etc. in.

New Jersey does have spousal privilege laws.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

That post is probably the most offensive thing I've ever seen on the boards(the Danny one on Ray Rice). Honestly, it passes into the realm of ridiculousness and into the realm of "How dare you". 

Shame on you. 

Seriously, a RB hits a wall at a certain age. Ray Rice was gonna hit it soon and was coming off of a down year. The fact that you think that this team is in a pitfall because of something like this is freaking mind boggling. 

 

Smh. 

[EdTheMythicalOne]

2 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

That post is probably the most offensive thing I've ever seen on the boards(the Danny one on Ray Rice). Honestly, it passes into the realm of ridiculousness and into the realm of "How dare you". 

Shame on you. 

Seriously, a RB hits a wall at a certain age. Ray Rice was gonna hit it soon and was coming off of a down year. The fact that you think that this team is in a pitfall because of something like this is freaking mind boggling. 

 

Smh. 

And as I had pointed out earlier, Ray had a lot of college miles on him. Aside from being from a "small school," the miles on the odometer was the other chief concern about how many miles he'd have left in the NFL. These two factors are why he was there and ready for the picking when the Ravens drafted.

[ravensdan]

Crossed the line from annoyance to despicable defending the proven actions of a proven abuser. 

[Willbacker]

12 hours ago, Danny D said:

Ed you sure bit hook, line and sinker on the Domestic Violence Groups position. Come on man.

That video was much too grainy to identify a punch with Ray's back to the camera.  I gotta tell you, you couldn't even identify Ray. If Ray doesn't confess that video ain't enough to convict a man. Your position is that you see punch and definitely not slap?  These two people, whoever they really were, are engaged in a slapping dispute long before they enter the elevator.

I'm not getting into Ray's youth and hurt year.  Believe what you wish.  To me its just more evidence that the Raven's Front Office have lost their collective minds. But then public pressure doesn't faze me. Say and do what's best.

Oh, one other matter. The Raven's after accepting the 2 game suspension voided Ray's contract on Moral Turpitude. (Likely DeCosta again.) Ray sued and received a settlement.

You need to get an eye appointment quick.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, rossihunter2 said:

Sorry, after 2 years you're trying to say that it was all a massive conspiracy and ray rice was never in that lift? It's obviously him, it's obviously her, and what happened obviously happened. It's about as clear cut as any instance of domestic violence. To argue slap vs punch etc is meaningless. She was knocked unconscious.

 

You're often contrary Danny d but this time you're borderline offensive.

 

1 hour ago, rossihunter2 said:

Not that I'm an expert but I think that isn't law in the state he was tried/convicted etc. in.

 

14 minutes ago, Willbacker said:

You need to get an eye appointment quick.

What was offensive was our Front Office desiring, (with the league), to look the other way and then once they both received public pressure with the release of the grainy video to determine they instead should be "holier than thou" and stick it to Ray Rice and even try to deny him his remaining contract benefits.  That was offensive.

If you don't believe that it matters if you spit on a person, slap them with the back of your hand, or haul off and weight shift cold [profanity deleted] them, I understand. Sublety and degrees are not everyone's strong suit. She was knocked unconscious due to the fall when she hit her head on the handrail. The video is still out there. It's not my job to link it.   A transgressor takes a victim as they find them, understood, but the circumstances even mattered to the NFL in the beginning.

I don't believe it's proper to hit a woman. I don't believe it's proper to be out drunk gambling either.  But I also don't believe organizations should be railroaded by Domestic Violence groups, especially when the woman won't press charges. Correction is up to law enforcement.

You can live in your totalitarian world. I'm not going to.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Danny D

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

9 hours ago, Danny D said:

 What was offensive was our Front Office desiring, (with the league), to look the other way and then once they both received public pressure with the release of the grainy video to determine they instead should be "holier than thou" and stick it to Ray Rice and even try to deny him his remaining contract benefits.  That was offensive.

If you don't believe that it matters if you spit on a person, slap them with the back of your hand, or haul off and weight shift cold [profanity deleted] them, I understand. Sublety and degrees are not everyone's strong suit. She was knocked unconscious due to the fall when she hit her head on the handrail. The video is still out there. It's not my job to link it.   A transgressor takes a victim as they find them, understood, but the circumstances even mattered to the NFL in the beginning.

I don't believe it's proper to hit a woman. I don't believe it's proper to be out drunk gambling either.  But I also don't believe organizations should be railroaded by Domestic Violence groups.

No what happened was the Ravens got a false account and followed the leagues stance. Both were based on rices false account of the event. An argument followed by a minor slap that the local district were not pursuing criminal charges is one thing, and you can come back from that. 

Spitting, then slapping and then reaching back and full-force hitting whether with an open or closed fist is an entirely different matter. I love how u comment on the "grainy footage" yet you somehow know that rays fist wasn't closed and that Janay was clearly conscious on the way down and was only knocked out by the rail. How do you know?? You don't so stop. 

Once the video came out and you could see the brutality of the encounter followed by his behavior - dragging her lifeless body out of the elevator and getting upset that she wouldn't make up as if it was her fault for causing him that hassle - that's what they could no longer stand by. That's where reality and Rice's claims differed. 

You say you don't support DV yet in an obvious and heinous event of it, you make claims that there's reasonable doubt and try to argue a case that maybe it didn't happen. That perpetuates the culture where victims are afraid to come forward bc society will try to poke holes in the story before accepting it on clear face value. 

Dont try to act like it wasn't offensive. You know what you said and how ridiculous it was.

 

[Willbacker]

25 minutes ago, Danny D said:

 

 

What was offensive was our Front Office desiring, (with the league), to look the other way and then once they both received public pressure with the release of the grainy video to determine they instead should be "holier than thou" and stick it to Ray Rice and even try to deny him his remaining contract benefits.  That was offensive.

If you don't believe that it matters if you spit on a person, slap them with the back of your hand, or haul off and weight shift cold [profanity deleted] them, I understand. Sublety and degrees are not everyone's strong suit. She was knocked unconscious due to the fall when she hit her head on the handrail. The video is still out there. It's not my job to link it.   A transgressor takes a victim as they find them, understood, but the circumstances even mattered to the NFL in the beginning.

I don't believe it's proper to hit a woman. I don't believe it's proper to be out drunk gambling either.  But I also don't believe organizations should be railroaded by Domestic Violence groups, especially when the woman won't press charges. Correction is up to law enforcement.

You can live in your totalitarian world. I'm not going to.

Normally a company stands behind its employee but when all of a sudden a video comes out showing said employee lied about a seious accusation its unemployment time. Also would it have been worth all the protests and media coverage that would have followed especially when he was guilty? Look at the big picture.

Do I think Ray Rice deserves a 2nd chance? Yes I do. As far as I'm concerned he has been convicted of his crime and supported by his wife. Alcohol does funny things that's why I lay off the hard stuff. It changes people. Greg Hardy is a different. By what Ive seen he has no remorse but video kills.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Willbacker said:

Normally a company stands behind its employee but when all of a sudden a video comes out showing said employee lied about a seious accusation its unemployment time. Also would it have been worth all the protests and media coverage that would have followed especially when he was guilty? Look at the big picture.

Do I think Ray Rice deserves a 2nd chance? Yes I do. As far as I'm concerned he has been convicted of his crime and supported by his wife. Alcohol does funny things that's why I lay off the hard stuff. It changes people. Greg Hardy is a different. By what Ive seen he has no remorse but video kills.

Willbacker.........that was a reasonable mature response. Thank you.

I would just point out if Ray Rice lied, in all likelihood, the Raven's would not of settled his civil suit with him. I don't believe he lied.

I'm not arguing to give Ray a shot, but I hope someone does.

[rossihunter2]

16 hours ago, Danny D said:

I would just point out if Ray Rice lied, in all likelihood, the Raven's would not of settled his civil suit with him. I don't believe he lied.

People settle for all sorts of reasons even when they would win - sometimes it's just cheaper and more painless

[EdTheMythicalOne]

16 hours ago, Danny D said:

Willbacker.........that was a reasonable mature response. Thank you.

I would just point out if Ray Rice lied, in all likelihood, the Raven's would not of settled his civil suit with him. I don't believe he lied.

I'm not arguing to give Ray a shot, but I hope someone does.

People seem to forget that the NFL has its own rules and what might fly in normal, every day America might not fly within the rules of football.

Ray Rice did lie. Roger Goodell said he lied to him and Dick Cass said he lied about it.

Janay Palmer is standing by her man because she stands to gain a very significant portion of his income and future income had he been allowed to play again.

The NFLPA brought up the case for Ray Rice based on the fact that the NFL had no policies in place for the way they suspended him. Thus, if he was "wrongly suspended" and thus that suspension is why he was terminated, the the termination was unjust. The reason why the Ravens settled it instead of fighting it? It was worth paying him only half of what he was due to get just to get rid of him instead of dragging it out in courts. I would say the Ravens could have made a case for conduct detrimental to the team...but I am not a Ravens lawyer.

[rmcjacket23]

16 hours ago, Willbacker said:

Normally a company stands behind its employee but when all of a sudden a video comes out showing said employee lied about a seious accusation its unemployment time. Also would it have been worth all the protests and media coverage that would have followed especially when he was guilty? Look at the big picture.

Do I think Ray Rice deserves a 2nd chance? Yes I do. As far as I'm concerned he has been convicted of his crime and supported by his wife. Alcohol does funny things that's why I lay off the hard stuff. It changes people. Greg Hardy is a different. By what Ive seen he has no remorse but video kills.

1. Not exactly sure where you got this notion that "normally a company stands behind its employee". If I were speaking generally, although most of these are strictly case-by-case, I'd say that large corporations RARELY stand behind their employees. If a normal employee, some average Joe making middle class wages, did this, he would be terminated in a matter of minutes. Not hours, weeks, months, years. Minutes, perhaps even seconds. And that would be done with or without the video surveillance.

Now, you could argue that because said person isn't high profile, his employer may never even find out. And that would be accurate. But if your employer did find out that you knocked your wife out in a DV situation in a hotel elevator in AC, you would be 100% terminated. There wouldn't be a long drawn process about it... it would be almost instant. I and anybody else who works in Corporate America has seen plenty of people fired for doing much, much, much less. 

2. Given he was a RB who just came off the worst season of his career and was clearly heading for the decline stage of his career, NO, it would not have been worth the protests or media coverage. He wouldn't have been anywhere close to worth that, especially when you factor in the millions and millions of dollars in lost sponsorship and marketing opportunities that the team and the NFL would have faced. Those losses would have greatly exceeded Rice's salary and whatever revenue he could draw himself, which given his recent play, wasn't much.

 

Edited August 2, 2016 by rmcjacket23