Ray Rice

[usmccharles]

29 minutes ago, ludy51 said:

He's the last person take to speak for the "general public"

I was under the impression that he has done a lot to become a better person after the incident

[rmcjacket23]

On 7/23/2016 at 11:00 AM, Steve0x said:

CFL is like football in the minor leagues.

No its not. If it were the minor leagues of football, then you'd see a large influx of players coming from the CFL to the NFL. That rarely happens.

[rmcjacket23]

On 7/23/2016 at 11:10 AM, usmccharles said:

elaborate ?

Not really that hard. Do you really think that many people walking around think that doing some speeches and donating a minimum salary to a DV cause makes up for a video of you knocking your wife out that made national headlines as the face of DV?

We forgive people... but not that easily and not that quickly.

See Mike Vick. Textbook example.

[Militant X 1]

On 7/22/2016 at 1:05 PM, berad said:

The video of that terrible action still looms too large. If he was going to get a second chance, he would've already had it, in my opinion.

Every day that passes ages him and puts him further in the NFL rear-view. He and his agent put out these statements in the offseason to try and drum up interest but you can see right through them - it is over for him in all likelihood. He can still make a difference by talking to and supporting groups - remember he talked to our rookie earlier this summer, hopefully made an impact.

Like it or not, that video made people have a visceral reaction and was something he can't deny - unlike the static images that come out for some others' DV incidents. Not saying it's any better or worse, violence against a partner is a disgrace but there's something about seeing it happen.

Absolutely!  Major difference I feel between his and Hardy's situation getting opportunities to continue to play.

On 7/22/2016 at 4:02 PM, rmcjacket23 said:

Forget all of this for a second though...

Lets suppose (hypothetically) that Zeke DID do this. All indications are its untrue, but just indulge me for a second.

So the OP is suggesting that the solution for a team who just had their star RB arrested and then likely suspended for Domestic Violence is to go sign the poster child for Domestic Violence. 

Seriously? Somebody say that out loud and tell me how you think that plays out positively for ANY organization on the planet? 

 

Boom!  Closes the laptop!

[RaineV1]

On 7/23/2016 at 1:55 AM, Steve0x said:

I think Ray Rice should play in the CFL in Saskatchewan for 3 years and then if an NFL team takes him thats his second chance. 

Late response, but Rice is already 29 years old, which by itself is a big reason teams don't want to sign him. Add another three years and they sure as hell won't sign him.

Even beyond the DV case, Ray Rice is old by RB standards and his last couple seasons weren't exactly great. Teams wouldn't be lining up to sign him either way, and definitely not when he comes with extra baggage.

[ludy51]

On 7/22/2016 at 4:02 PM, rmcjacket23 said:

Forget all of this for a second though...

Lets suppose (hypothetically) that Zeke DID do this. All indications are its untrue, but just indulge me for a second.

So the OP is suggesting that the solution for a team who just had their star RB arrested and then likely suspended for Domestic Violence is to go sign the poster child for Domestic Violence. 

Seriously? Somebody say that out loud and tell me how you think that plays out positively for ANY organization on the planet? 

 

What's the point in going with your scenario? We know that the allegations are untrue so the player is not suspended or even under suspicion, so the only connection is the accusation. So that wouldn't hold them back even in the slightest.

[ludy51]

4 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Not really that hard. Do you really think that many people walking around think that doing some speeches and donating a minimum salary to a DV cause makes up for a video of you knocking your wife out that made national headlines as the face of DV?

We forgive people... but not that easily and not that quickly.

See Mike Vick. Textbook example.

"Some speeches" and a "minimum salary" actually translates to 2 years after the incident + all of the speeches he gave beforehand and $885,000.

[BmoreBird22]

3 hours ago, ludy51 said:

"Some speeches" and a "minimum salary" actually translates to 2 years after the incident + all of the speeches he gave beforehand and $885,000.

I personally didn't think of Vick's transgressions after he got out of jail. He paid his time and showed change. That's all I ask.

[TDubbs]

All of the obvious stuff aside, the last time Ray stepped on the field was 2013 and he put up 660 yards in 15 games. Strictly Football talk, Rice was the perfect RB for our team at the exact right time. We had a young Flacco and we were still pounding the rock in a traditional system with Pro Bowl FB's. Too much young talent at the position nowadays for any 29 year old RB to come back after 3 years away from the game. 

[rmcjacket23]

17 hours ago, ludy51 said:

"Some speeches" and a "minimum salary" actually translates to 2 years after the incident + all of the speeches he gave beforehand and $885,000.

So $885K and some speeches makes you rehabilitated from being the face of DV in the entire country in the public's eye? Yeah, that's just simply not going to get it done.

I get it, he was "one of us", but of course if he was on another team, the song and dance would be much different (as it always is). If that's all it took, then Tom Brady should be able to buy himself the public's good graces with $200 donated to Science and an autograph, given the gigantic differences in impact of the two transgressions.

And lets remember something real quick... that $885K is only being donated AFTER the NFL pays him that. Why does he have to wait for the NFL to pay him before he donates that much money? He's basically just the middle man at that point. How about he just strokes a check for $885K right now?

[ludy51]

36 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

So $885K and some speeches makes you rehabilitated from being the face of DV in the entire country in the public's eye? Yeah, that's just simply not going to get it done.

I get it, he was "one of us", but of course if he was on another team, the song and dance would be much different (as it always is). If that's all it took, then Tom Brady should be able to buy himself the public's good graces with $200 donated to Science and an autograph, given the gigantic differences in impact of the two transgressions.

And lets remember something real quick... that $885K is only being donated AFTER the NFL pays him that. Why does he have to wait for the NFL to pay him before he donates that much money? He's basically just the middle man at that point. How about he just strokes a check for $885K right now?

...are you serious?

[rmcjacket23]

12 minutes ago, ludy51 said:

...are you serious?

I was asking the same question of him when he said that...

Say this out loud to yourself... "hey, give me $20, and I'll donate it to charity and take all the credit for it".

Literally the exact same thing in every possible way.

Want the REAL solution? The NFL donates $885K to a DV cause, and no NFL team signs Ray Rice.

Everybody is in the exact same boat.

Edited July 26, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[ludy51]

25 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I was asking the same question of him when he said that...

Say this out loud to yourself... "hey, give me $20, and I'll donate it to charity and take all the credit for it".

Literally the exact same thing in every possible way.

Want the REAL solution? The NFL donates $885K to a DV cause, and no NFL team signs Ray Rice.

Everybody is in the exact same boat.

No it's

"Pay me $20 for me to mow your lawn and I'll donate it to charity, essentially working for free"

[rmcjacket23]

4 minutes ago, ludy51 said:

No it's

"Pay me $20 for me to mow your lawn and I'll donate it to charity, essentially working for free"

Except in this case, nobody wants him to mow their lawn, and there's a bunch of guys next door who will do it just as well for $10 or $15.

O, and all those other guys who will do it for less, yeah they haven't made $30M in their career either. He has.

So like I said, the NFL can donate the $20 to charity and cut the grass themselves.

Back to square one...

Edited July 26, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[ludy51]

59 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Except in this case, nobody wants him to mow their lawn, and there's a bunch of guys next door who will do it just as well for $10 or $15.

O, and all those other guys who will do it for less, yeah they haven't made $30M in their career either. He has.

So like I said, the NFL can donate the $20 to charity and cut the grass themselves.

Back to square one...

But that wasn't your argument before.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, ludy51 said:

But that wasn't your argument before.

Was precisely my argument all along. Re-read.

[ludy51]

5 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Was precisely my argument all along. Re-read.

No, what you said before was that Ray donating his money doesn't matter becuase it's really the NFLs money, which is wrong.

You then jumped to other players working for less which doesn't factor into this at all.

The point of him saying that wasn't about the money, as the amount doesn't even matter, what matters is he is willing to go as far as work for free in a dangerous sport just to reform his image in the minds of those unwilling to move forward

[January J]

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

So $885K and some speeches makes you rehabilitated from being the face of DV in the entire country in the public's eye? Yeah, that's just simply not going to get it done.

I get it, he was "one of us", but of course if he was on another team, the song and dance would be much different (as it always is). If that's all it took, then Tom Brady should be able to buy himself the public's good graces with $200 donated to Science and an autograph, given the gigantic differences in impact of the two transgressions.

And lets remember something real quick... that $885K is only being donated AFTER the NFL pays him that. Why does he have to wait for the NFL to pay him before he donates that much money? He's basically just the middle man at that point. How about he just strokes a check for $885K right now?

I think the narrative around the league and even in the media is that he has gone above and beyond and does indeed deserve another shot. The whole country isnt going to forgive him but they would get over it. You dont see an uproar over Greg hardy playing even after the pictures were leaked. It was a story for a week or so then forgotten. 

He probably wont write that check right now BC there's a good chance he may never play again or be able to even get a decent job so he has to live off of what he now has for the rest of his life. I think its pretty generous for him to offer that and is far more than anybody else  like Greg hardy has done who hasn't even really admitted wrong doing or taken any responsibility.

[rmcjacket23]

30 minutes ago, ludy51 said:

No, what you said before was that Ray donating his money doesn't matter becuase it's really the NFLs money, which is wrong.

You then jumped to other players working for less which doesn't factor into this at all.

The point of him saying that wasn't about the money, as the amount doesn't even matter, what matters is he is willing to go as far as work for free in a dangerous sport just to reform his image in the minds of those unwilling to move forward

1. Actually, its your money. And my money. And the money of every person who contributes money to the NFL. So basically, you and I are funding Ray Rice's charitable donation. Any possible way you look at it, you're going to arrive back at this outcome.

2. Actually, its the only factor that matters. Because until a team is actually willing to pay Rice another $880K, it doesn't appear as if he will be making a charitable donation of that size to a DV cause anytime soon. He could do so if he chooses, which is what I'm advocating for. Assuming he's a financially responsible person, the funds shouldn't be an issue.

3. Why do you think its about image? He can reform his image without actually ever playing football again. The two aren't mutually exclusive. He's willing to play for free NOW so that he can get back in the league, attempt to prove himself as a football player, so he can reestablish value to a sport that doesn't appear to want him. And then, naturally, get paid to do it after that.

 

[January J]

I think its a heck of a  gesture and would actually end up creating positive press and show people who mess up the correct way to handle it. If anybody deserves a second chance and has rehabilitated himself its him. sign him to a damn practice squad. He hasn't played in two years so his legs are fresh, he has big game experience and  could atleast be a third string back somewhere. 

[rmcjacket23]

10 minutes ago, January J said:

I think the narrative around the league and even in the media is that he has gone above and beyond and does indeed deserve another shot. The whole country isnt going to forgive him but they would get over it. You dont see an uproar over Greg hardy playing even after the pictures were leaked. It was a story for a week or so then forgotten. 

He probably wont write that check right now BC there's a good chance he may never play again or be able to even get a decent job so he has to live off of what he now has for the rest of his life. I think its pretty generous for him to offer that and is far more than anybody else  like Greg hardy has done who hasn't even really admitted wrong doing or taken any responsibility.

Umm... people still really hated the idea of Greg Hardy even being allowed on a football field. They protested outside of Cowboys stadium the day he came back, and its part of the reason he can't get a job right now.

He has also has some semblance of deniability, given that he doesn't have a video of him beating his wife nor does he have a criminal conviction of it. 

 

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, January J said:

I think its a heck of a  gesture and would actually end up creating positive press and show people who mess up the correct way to handle it. If anybody deserves a second chance and has rehabilitated himself its him. sign him to a damn practice squad. He hasn't played in two years so his legs are fresh, he has big game experience and  could atleast be a third string back somewhere. 

1. He's not PS eligible.

2. I don't know why a team would spend the vet minimum on a 3rd string back who doesn't play ST. They can get a 5th round pick to do that for half the price.

[Deflated Football]

Without reading some of these comments, I just want to say that I still respect double R. He was an integral part of our success and the Super Bowl win. He obviously still wants to play football, a game he's been playing his whole life that he absolutely loves. The video however was a death sentence, no matter the excuses of being intoxicated and not in the correct state of mind. But if Mike Vick can get a second chance (which I hate), why not Ray? Well, probably because he doesn't have any gas left in the tank. He needs to realize that. He's smart enough to know the shelf life of RB's in the NFL. Plus they're a dime a dozen nowadays. Just hang them up, perhaps look into coaching, starting in high school and move your way up. 

[Passepartout]

I think he needs to lay low. And learn to until the dusk settles down for him and his family. 

[January J]

27 minutes ago, Passepartout said:

I think he needs to lay low. And learn to until the dusk settles down for him and his family. 

He's been out of the league for two years and has done every possible thing he could've done. The dust has settled. Meanwhile other guys are getting second and third chances routinely.

Don't give me the he doesn't have any gas in the tank left line. Not only has he not played for the last two years and kept his legs fresh- how could teams possibly know this without even bringing him in for a workout? What would it hurt for a rb needy team to Atleast kick the tires on him and give him a look? I'm sure he's been training his butt off and has a lot to prove.

[rmcjacket23]

20 minutes ago, January J said:

He's been out of the league for two years and has done every possible thing he could've done. The dust has settled. Meanwhile other guys are getting second and third chances routinely.

Don't give me the he doesn't have any gas in the tank left line. Not only has he not played for the last two years and kept his legs fresh- how could teams possibly know this without even bringing him in for a workout? What would it hurt for a rb needy team to Atleast kick the tires on him and give him a look? I'm sure he's been training his butt off and has a lot to prove.

You kind of just proved that Rice can't play in the league's eyes...

If we know that a lot of guys get 2nd and 3rd chances, and Rice hasn't, assuming everything else is equal, then why haven't teams called him?

Perhaps because they don't like what they see from Rice, the football player?

And they'll know more from studying recent game film than they will ever learn having him take a workout. A workout isn't going to answer any of the questions they have about him. All its going to show is what kind of shape he's in.

And I certainly don't consider the "two years off so he has fresh legs" as a positive. There's a ton of guys who have fallen into the same boat and didn't display any "fresh legs" when given the opportunity. 

2,341. That's the number that will scare teams off. 

[EdTheMythicalOne]

On 7/22/2016 at 3:24 PM, usmccharles said:

Sadly, Rice was the poster child of DV and basically has been black balled imo.  No one will sign him.  I was hoping someone would

And to be honest, I don't like how we treated him through the process, I thought we bailed on him because of the video after we said we would stand by him and he was nothing but honest with our FO. 

That second part is completely untrue. He was not honest with what happened during the incident. Roger Goodell said that the recounting of the story Ray Rice gave him was quite a bit different than what actually happened. Dick Cass of the Ravens had this to say about what Ray Rice told the Ravens:

However, in a response to the same question from the Sun, Ravens president Dick Cass indicated the incident, as captured on video, “just looks very different than what we understood the facts to be.”

Said Cass: “There’s a big difference between reading a report that says he knocked her unconscious or being told that someone had slapped someone and that she had hit her head. That is one version of the facts. That’s what we understood to be the case. When you see the video, it just looks very different than what we understood the facts to be.”

Prior to the Ravens finally seeing what actually happened, everyone up and down the Ravens head honchos stood behind Rice. Harbaugh touted his character. Newsome essentially said he would reserve judgement, and the owner stated how great of a guy Ray Rice had been and vowed that he would always have a place with the Ravens. This was before they saw the second video that showed what actually happened and was based off of the story Ray was spinning before that second video came out.

The other elephant in the room if you choose to ignore all the previous stuff is that Ray Rice had a lot of miles on the odometer when he entered the league as he ran a ton at Rutgers. He was I think 29 when he was eligible to come back from his suspension and people forget how bad of a season his last season was. He was showing a bit of a downward trend in his production the season prior to that as well. So I think the issue with him is two-fold. He would be a PR hit for any team that signed him and he might not have anything left in the tank. Runningbacks usually start coming apart around age 30.

I don't feel sorry for Ray Rice at all. He did something tremendously horrible. He didn't just slap his wife. He didn't just push her away. He slugged her like he was in a heavyweight prize fight and knocked her out cold. Then he lied about it. I do believe in second chances but..this one is a little tough.

[ludy51]

Sorry but if someone's charging me in an enclosed space I won't be too worried about their well being

[usmccharles]

13 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

That second part is completely untrue. He was not honest with what happened during the incident. Roger Goodell said that the recounting of the story Ray Rice gave him was quite a bit different than what actually happened. Dick Cass of the Ravens had this to say about what Ray Rice told the Ravens:

However, in a response to the same question from the Sun, Ravens president Dick Cass indicated the incident, as captured on video, “just looks very different than what we understood the facts to be.”

Said Cass: “There’s a big difference between reading a report that says he knocked her unconscious or being told that someone had slapped someone and that she had hit her head. That is one version of the facts. That’s what we understood to be the case. When you see the video, it just looks very different than what we understood the facts to be.”

Prior to the Ravens finally seeing what actually happened, everyone up and down the Ravens head honchos stood behind Rice. Harbaugh touted his character. Newsome essentially said he would reserve judgement, and the owner stated how great of a guy Ray Rice had been and vowed that he would always have a place with the Ravens. This was before they saw the second video that showed what actually happened and was based off of the story Ray was spinning before that second video came out.

The other elephant in the room if you choose to ignore all the previous stuff is that Ray Rice had a lot of miles on the odometer when he entered the league as he ran a ton at Rutgers. He was I think 29 when he was eligible to come back from his suspension and people forget how bad of a season his last season was. He was showing a bit of a downward trend in his production the season prior to that as well. So I think the issue with him is two-fold. He would be a PR hit for any team that signed him and he might not have anything left in the tank. Runningbacks usually start coming apart around age 30.

I don't feel sorry for Ray Rice at all. He did something tremendously horrible. He didn't just slap his wife. He didn't just push her away. He slugged her like he was in a heavyweight prize fight and knocked her out cold. Then he lied about it. I do believe in second chances but..this one is a little tough.

Honestly that has nothing to do with it.  They were ready to stand behind him when they knew he hit his wife after his terrible year, video came out and changed everything.  I was in the belief that when he came back he was going to tear it up, he got down to 205 instead of 220 and every report said he looked great and explosive, but....This has nothing to do with what i said.  Im not relating the situation to a business decision, if that was the case i would talk about his contract which i was one who wanted to resign him. 

Someone tells me they hit their wife...i see a video of him hitting his wife, there isnt really much context thats going to make me change my mind about him hitting his wife. The FO knew he hit her...did they think it was a love tap? a jab?  did it really matter that he side stepped and threw a hook?  I dont condone what he did by any means, but i dont see how our FO was told anything different that they saw the tape and were shocked. The fact that you said everyone came out and praised his character kind of goes to what i said, once the public saw it they knew it looked worse than reading it, obviously, but the premise of him hitting his wife still stands, that never changed.   His production has nothing to do with it imo.  Everything i read, other than what you quoted, said that RR was completely honest about everything, so maybe i need to read more articles, but my previous statements are my stance.  

[EdTheMythicalOne]

9 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Honestly that has nothing to do with it.  They were ready to stand behind him when they knew he hit his wife after his terrible year, video came out and changed everything.  I was in the belief that when he came back he was going to tear it up, he got down to 205 instead of 220 and every report said he looked great and explosive, but....This has nothing to do with what i said.  Im not relating the situation to a business decision, if that was the case i would talk about his contract which i was one who wanted to resign him. 

Someone tells me they hit their wife...i see a video of him hitting his wife, there isnt really much context thats going to make me change my mind about him hitting his wife. The FO knew he hit her...did they think it was a love tap? a jab?  did it really matter that he side stepped and threw a hook?  I dont condone what he did by any means, but i dont see how our FO was told anything different that they saw the tape and were shocked. The fact that you said everyone came out and praised his character kind of goes to what i said, once the public saw it they knew it looked worse than reading it, obviously, but the premise of him hitting his wife still stands, that never changed.   His production has nothing to do with it imo.  Everything i read, other than what you quoted, said that RR was completely honest about everything, so maybe i need to read more articles, but my previous statements are my stance.  

I guess you didn't see Cass' comment. He spelled it out for you. Ray was playing it off like they were both drunk, he slapped her, and then she hit her head. This is a lot different than he slugged her and knocked her out, then she fell like a ton of bricks to the floor and hit her head. Goodell said that the case Ray presented to him was a lot different than what actually had occurred. So you've got the NFL commissioner saying Ray Rice mislead him, and Dick Cass saying the same thing. I'm sorry, but there is nothing more I really need to hear about it.

I was actually at the time calling for calm and to wait for all the details to come out. This was before the second video was released. I thought there was a possibility that since they were both reportedly rather intoxicated that there was a chance that there was some pushing and shoving, Janay being tipsy could have fallen and hit her head and then got knocked out from the fall. I even wrote an article about it for one of the places I worked for at the time.

Then the video came out and removed all doubt. Ray Rice was a punk. This is the Mother of his child. And he flat out decks her with a hard punch. I don't care how much charity work you do and how great your teammates think you are. You punch a woman like that and you're scum.

And yeah, had this incident not happened the Ravens of course would have him back and hope he would regain form. What choice did they really have? They had just inked him to a huge contract and the cost of cutting him would put a lot of money against our cap. Once they realized he would be out for a full year they had no choice. Teams around the league saw his latest performance and the NFL is very much a "what have you done for me lately" business. They also saw the miles on the odometer from college. He's approaching 30. So if you are some team out there do you take a chance on some rookies with no baggage, or an aging back who might be past it with all of his PR baggage? No brainer.