What will Ben Watson bring to our Offense?

[The Raven]

Loved the Watson signing when it happened, but now, I worry it will create a log jam and hinder the development of our younger tight ends. I wanted Maxx Williams and Crocket Gillmore to be the tight ends of the future. They compliment each other quite well. 

How all of these guys will see the field, I don't know. Someone will lose snaps, and I worry it will be the person who will be on this team in 2017 and 2018. 

I like vets. I like Watson. But when the young guys can get the job done - and they can - I say let the young guys do the job.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

1 hour ago, usmccharles said:

I think you and I debated this before about Crocket and him being over-rated.  I highly disagree because that means Pitta was over-rated, he just had a good post season run and helped us win a SB, so that obviously gives most fans a edge on the two.  But if you look at numbers Pitta and Crocket had very identical break out years, I wont break it down like last time.  He has only played two years and showed massive improvements this year, I think he will be a beast for us in the future, barring injury which could become an issue with him, sadly.  While Pittas first two years could have said to be a disappoint judged by the same standards. 

That being said, this is one reason I wasn't a fan of signing Watson, It hinders the development of the younger players, but I understand it, theres a difference.  Crocket was hurt, Boyle suspended, Max in only his second year, we needed someone to catch some passes and if you want to rely on Pitta, psh good luck. 

Pitta wasn't overrated. He was a very good move TE. Horrid blocker, but that's about it. As I've said in the past, week one vs Denver, Flacco throws a catchable pass up to Crockett Gillmore which the defender rips from his hands. I've seen Pitta make that same catch. Pitta had better hands  and was better in open space. Better route runner. Crockett is tougher to tackle in the open field, and is a better blocker, but Pitta a was far better reciever with some of the best hands in football. Statistics don't matter as much to me. Crockett was more or less force fed the ball at the TE position as we had Maxx and Boyle who weren't expected to produce. I just don't trust Crockett in 50/50 situations. 

 

Crockett is a good TE. But he's not going to be a beast if you ask me. He's an animal with the ball in his hands but his hands are soft, not strong. 

 

Watson doesn't necessarily hinder the development. I think we didn't expect Pitta to be closer to recovering meaning at the very worst Maxx would have gotten playing time. I think Maxx will still get a ton of playing time.  

[Ravenseconbeast]

I already see he is a good person and a model citizen.  Thats fine.  

But I want to see production.  If he drop balls, it doesn't really matter who he is from there.

[usmccharles]

1 minute ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Pitta wasn't overrated. He was a very good move TE. Horrid blocker, but that's about it. As I've said in the past, week one vs Denver, Flacco throws a catchable pass up to Crockett Gillmore which the defender rips from his hands. I've seen Pitta make that same catch. Pitta had better hands  and was better in open space. Better route runner. Crockett is tougher to tackle in the open field, and is a better blocker, but Pitta a was far better reciever with some of the best hands in football. Statistics don't matter as much to me. Crockett was more or less force fed the ball at the TE position as we had Maxx and Boyle who weren't expected to produce. I just don't trust Crockett in 50/50 situations. 

Crockett is a good TE. But he's not going to be a beast if you ask me. He's an animal with the ball in his hands but his hands are soft, not strong. 

Yea i just have to disagree.  Lets compare their 2nd year (we only have two years for Crockett, obviously).  Im not going to break them down in-depth. (kinda)

Pitta in his 2nd year played all 16 games and ended up 40/405/3, a respectable 2nd year campaign. 

Crockett in his 2nd year played in 10 games 33/412/4, a respectable 2nd year campaign as well, especially considering he played in 6 less games. 

Who had the single 100 yard game between the two? Crockett, but that can be used against him saying hes inconsistent.  You could argue, well, Crockett got hurt so its not his fault about not putting up even more yards, but we really dont want to debate health and Pitta, obviously.  Pitta's 3rd year was his really breakout year, but if you play out Crockett's averages over the last year (2nd year) they are nearly identical, not bad.  I dont blame you for not trusting Crockett in 50/50 situations in his 2nd year, just like i highly doubt you would have trusted Pitta in his 2nd year.  But lets not forget, Pitta has played 7 out of the last 32 games.....

All that being said, i will agree that Pitta has better hands and he had way better chemistry with Joe, but to say Crockett is over-rated, i just cant agree and think there might be some bias in there, nothing wrong with that.  Looking at what Crockett has produced in his 2nd year compared to Pitta's 2nd year, i dont think there is any reason to think that Crockett couldnt turn into a 'beast', only problem i see is that there is a lot of TEs on the roster.  Crockett is who im most excited to see this year, i just hope he gets the reps.  

Ok, that might of been a little more in depth but i havent got to make a good post in awhile.  (if this counts as one)

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

2 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Yea i just have to disagree.  Lets compare their 2nd year (we only have two years for Crockett, obviously).  Im not going to break them down in-depth. (kinda)

Pitta in his 2nd year played all 16 games and ended up 40/405/3, a respectable 2nd year campaign. 

Crockett in his 2nd year played in 10 games 33/412/4, a respectable 2nd year campaign as well, especially considering he played in 6 less games. 

Who had the single 100 yard game between the two? Crockett, but that can be used against him saying hes inconsistent.  You could argue, well, Crockett got hurt so its not his fault about not putting up even more yards, but we really dont want to debate health and Pitta, obviously.  Pitta's 3rd year was his really breakout year, but if you play out Crockett's averages over the last year (2nd year) they are nearly identical, not bad.  I dont blame you for not trusting Crockett in 50/50 situations in his 2nd year, just like i highly doubt you would have trusted Pitta in his 2nd year.  But lets not forget, Pitta has played 7 out of the last 32 games.....

All that being said, i will agree that Pitta has better hands and he had way better chemistry with Joe, but to say Crockett is over-rated, i just cant agree and think there might be some bias in there, nothing wrong with that.  Looking at what Crockett has produced in his 2nd year compared to Pitta's 2nd year, i dont think there is any reason to think that Crockett couldnt turn into a 'beast', only problem i see is that there is a lot of TEs on the roster.  Crockett is who im most excited to see this year, i just hope he gets the reps.  

Ok, that might of been a little more in depth but i havent got to make a good post in awhile.  (if this counts as one)

You got me there. I did not trust Pitta his second year. But Pitta came on towards the end of his second year because Dickson started to fall off. And Pitta ended up growing into someone I could trust with tough catches that I just don't trust Crockett with. Going back to his college tape Crockett has struggled with tough catches especially in traffic. Contrastly, I'm more excited for Maxx because Maxx has shown similar toughness to Crockett, better open field ability, better hands, and his tape in college showed better hands in traffic. I'm not as excited for Crockett, and I've honestly think he's peaked as a player. 

[usmccharles]

11 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

You got me there. I did not trust Pitta his second year. But Pitta came on towards the end of his second year because Dickson started to fall off. And Pitta ended up growing into someone I could trust with tough catches that I just don't trust Crockett with. Going back to his college tape Crockett has struggled with tough catches especially in traffic. Contrastly, I'm more excited for Maxx because Maxx has shown similar toughness to Crockett, better open field ability, better hands, and his tape in college showed better hands in traffic. I'm not as excited for Crockett, and I've honestly think he's peaked as a player. 

I get you, we all have feelings about a player and if thats your gut feeling, have at it man, i was just pointing out by looking at numbers i didnt think ti was fair to call Crockett over-rated.  Also, i wouldnt even say Pitta came on towards the end of his second year, the last game of the year he went 6/62/1 which was his best game of the year.  Edit* i guess thats the definition of coming on at the end of the year lol

Edited July 22, 2016 by usmccharles

[PerpetuallyBored74]

 

5 hours ago, The Raven said:

Loved the Watson signing when it happened, but now, I worry it will create a log jam and hinder the development of our younger tight ends. I wanted Maxx Williams and Crocket Gillmore to be the tight ends of the future. They compliment each other quite well. 

How all of these guys will see the field, I don't know. Someone will lose snaps, and I worry it will be the person who will be on this team in 2017 and 2018. 

I like vets. I like Watson. But when the young guys can get the job done - and they can - I say let the young guys do the job.

Pitta is 31, coming off of 2 season ending hip dislocations and fractures while Watson is 35, turning 36 towards the end of the season.

Neither one is "hindering" either Gillmore (24, turning 25 in Nov.) or Williams (who just turned 22 in April) for more than one season, if even that. And if anybody gets hurt or old all of a sudden, there goes the logjam. I'm glad Watson is on the team. Having two strong blockers who are also decent pass catchers in Watson and Gillmore will be beneficial to both the run and pass in 2 TE sets.

[trevorsteadman]

Those who think that Benjamin Watson will hinder the development of Maxx Williams and Crockett Gillmore need to know that Watson was only signed to a 2 year deal and there is almost no way he plays more than that. He is 35 and I wouldn't be surprised if he hung it up after 1 of his 2 seasons on his contract. For those who still think he will hinder their developments I have a question for you, since Steve Smith arrived 2 seasons ago do you think he has hindered or helped the development of our wide receivers? I don't think the Ravens would have had over 2000 receiving yards if not for Steve Smith Sr. the past couple seasons. I actually believe the Steve has helped Kamar Aiken grow into his own. Aiken barely made our roster a couple years back now he is a solid player in our starting receiver rotation. 

Like I said before Watson isn't a huge upgrade over the personnel we have now, but he adds 15 years of veteran experience and that to teach the younger guys, along with a good leader on and off the field.. That alone almost is worth his salary. The Watson addition makes them smarter, will help them catch on faster, and will keep our tight ends fresh throughout games with 4 tight ends that could be starters in the NFL.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

On 7/21/2016 at 7:27 AM, Danny D said:

He's always been a serviceable Tight End, but the best year he ever had was with Drew Brees last year.  Brees targeted him more due to the loss of Jimmy Graham.  Not certain why we needed another Tight End if Maxx Williams, Pitta and Gilmore are really ready to blossom.

Our tight ends will not be our Achilles Heel however, so the whole Watson thing is another head scratcher.

 

Pitta was a long shot, Boyle suspended, Gillmore was scheduled to have 2 surgeries, and Maxx is going into his 2nd year.

What's so head scratching?? They made a preemptive move to make sure we had quality and experience at the position. When we role with promising young players and then they either dont live up to the potential or injuries occur and the cupboard becomes bare - we knock the FO for rolling the dice.

When they play it safe and make sure we have multiple options instead of relying on a bunch of if's, they get knocked for that too. It was the right move. We have a plethora of talent and should be able to overcome injuries.

[Somerset Ravens]

Ben Watson will bring class, character and a strong work ethic. He will be a valuable contributor this season.

[stampedehero]

On 7/21/2016 at 6:19 PM, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

As said previously, only for sure guy was Maxx Williams. And since we know that you think he's terrible he wasn't going to hack it. And even With Watson's age he has... You know production. So even if you didn't think our young guns were going to hack it the fact that you're saying that signing a veteran who will be nothing but a positive influence in the locker room is a "head scratcher" is hilarious. He's not just here for that. Here's here to help out the young guns with their development. He's the ideal guy to have in a locker room. 

 

Pitta is a massive injur risk again, Crockett has injury issues and honestly Watson is a better reciever than he is.  At the very worst Watson is going to still get a lot of playing time via rotation. But if I had to bet money I'd say the starters are Pitta and Williams. Watson will fill in for when Pitta if/when he needs rest time. 

 

This does bring up an interesting piece though. What are we going to do about Crockett? I may think he's overrated but he's a pretty solid TE. Do we send him away if Pitta in the long haul turns out to be healthy and his old self?

Btw. Since my TE list got deleted. 15 TEs better than Crockett when healthy

Gronk

Kelce

Eifert

Greg Olsen

Reed

Witten

Gates

Green(yes, Ladarius Green is better)

Kyle Rudolph

Pitta when healthy is a lot better than Crockett was

Jimmy Graham when healthy though he did just sustain a bad injury

Martellus Bennett 

Zach Ertz

Julius Thomas(yes he's better)

Gary Barnridge despite being a one year wonder is better. 

And Walker.

 

that being said, Crockett is a very good player and does have value. He's a very good blocker and a decent reciever(and Danny D will say he was an awful draft pick), but with Watson here I feel like he won't get as much playing time. At best he can develop into another Martellus Bennett. Do we keep him for the future with Watson and Pitta here or no?

I believe the team system dictates the number of snaps, play calling and final determination of who could rank 1 or 10.  Obviously Gronk is in a league all by himself.  Eifert and Barnridge  came out of no where.  Kelce is known because the Seahawks have one a lot of games in the last three years.  I did not like Barnridge's contributions on  th days we played the Browns.   He lit us up in that home loss which I attended.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, stampedehero said:

1  Kelce is known because the Seahawks have one a lot of games in the last three years. 

Pretty sure Kelce is with the Chiefs.

Anybody can make a list of who they perceive are the best players at a position, but all that matters in this discussion is whether you really needed one of them at a price.  Newsome had a bit of the panic set in and "jumped the shark."  It's what he's been doing for a while now.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Danny D

[flynismo]

Experience. Reliability. Hopefully a mentor for the young TEs we have