What will Ben Watson bring to our Offense?

[stampedehero]

I highly anticipate his contribution to our team and expect him to produce talent on the same level that other excellent TE's showcase in the NFL.

[Guest]

He's always been a serviceable Tight End, but the best year he ever had was with Drew Brees last year.  Brees targeted him more due to the loss of Jimmy Graham.  Not certain why we needed another Tight End if Maxx Williams, Pitta and Gilmore are really ready to blossom.

Our tight ends will not be our Achilles Heel however, so the whole Watson thing is another head scratcher.

 

[trevorsteadman]

Veteran leadership coming from a guy who knows how to block and catch. He came out of a high octane offense in New Orleans and I think he will help the most by showing our tight ends how to get open on a consistent basis like he did last season. There were games he literally put New Orleans on his back last season and I think he does the same this season. 

[rmw10]

31 minutes ago, Danny D said:

He's always been a serviceable Tight End, but the best year he ever had was with Drew Brees last year.  Brees targeted him more due to the loss of Jimmy Graham.  Not certain why we needed another Tight End if Maxx Williams, Pitta and Gilmore are really ready to blossom.

Our tight ends will not be our Achilles Heel however, so the whole Watson thing is another head scratcher.

 

When we signed Watson, Boyle was suspended, Pitta was still unclear coming off of injury, and Gillmore was said to need 2 surgeries.  At the time, Maxx was the only "certainty" we had on the roster.

[trevorsteadman]

33 minutes ago, Danny D said:

He's always been a serviceable Tight End, but the best year he ever had was with Drew Brees last year.  Brees targeted him more due to the loss of Jimmy Graham.  Not certain why we needed another Tight End if Maxx Williams, Pitta and Gilmore are really ready to blossom.

Our tight ends will not be our Achilles Heel however, so the whole Watson thing is another head scratcher.

 

 

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

When we signed Watson, Boyle was suspended, Pitta was still unclear coming off of injury, and Gillmore was said to need 2 surgeries.  At the time, Maxx was the only "certainty" we had on the roster.

Even then I think if the team was more certain of where Pitta and Gillmore was at I still think Watson would be on the team. Watson is not really more talented than any of our other tight ends on our roster. I think this is a move to give the younger tight ends more experience. I know it sounds weird bringing in another guy to take away snaps and then give younger guys experience, but Watson is a football player on and off the field and he is an incredible guy to learn from. 

Not only with our tight ends, but also with our receivers for at least the past 12 years have struggled to get consistently open. Last season Gillmore looked like Travis Kelce 2.0 and then would disappear the next game. Maxx Williams showed glimpses but still has as lot to learn and grow. Pitta is one "Madden Juke Move" away from having a 3rd hip dislocated.

Add in the injuries the team faced last season as the team struggles to find quality depth.. He was a good signing in my eyes. This reminds me of the Forsett signing a couple years back. Not too much of a talent gap with the rest of the team but gives quality depth, experience, and a good role model on and off the field. He may not even start halfway through the season (even though I think he starts week 1), but this is a sign the Ravens are going to use more tight ends than ever before.

[rmw10]

Just now, trevorsteadman said:

 

Even then I think if the team was more certain of where Pitta and Gillmore was at I still think Watson would be on the team. Watson is not really more talented than any of our other tight ends on our roster. I think this is a move to give the younger tight ends more experience. I know it sounds weird bringing in another guy to take away snaps and then give younger guys experience, but Watson is a football player on and off the field and he is an incredible guy to learn from. 

Not only with our tight ends, but also with our receivers for at least the past 12 years have struggled to get consistently open. Last season Gillmore looked like Travis Kelce 2.0 and then would disappear the next game. Maxx Williams showed glimpses but still has as lot to learn and grow. Pitta is one "Madden Juke Move" away from having a 3rd hip dislocated.

Add in the injuries the team faced last season as the team struggles to find quality depth.. He was a good signing in my eyes. This reminds me of the Forsett signing a couple years back. Not too much of a talent gap with the rest of the team but gives quality depth, experience, and a good role model on and off the field. He may not even start halfway through the season (even though I think he starts week 1), but this is a sign the Ravens are going to use more tight ends than ever before.

I, too, think he offers a lot as a coach and mentor to these young guys.  We have a young group (outside of Pitta - and he was the most uncertain) and there's value in having a guy like that around.  I think this is a move that could really help Maxx in particular develop, as I can see some similarities in them as players.

[Jacquouille]

Is there anyone in this fanbase remembering we ended up this season with Konrad Reuland as our starter?

 

You never have too many TE, especially when one of them is the ultimate pro and the others are youngsters with tons of potential.

[JoeyFlex5]

Production at the TE position mostly...

[trevorsteadman]

4 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Production at the TE position mostly...

The sarcasm is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, Danny D said:

He's always been a serviceable Tight End, but the best year he ever had was with Drew Brees last year.  Brees targeted him more due to the loss of Jimmy Graham.  Not certain why we needed another Tight End if Maxx Williams, Pitta and Gilmore are really ready to blossom.

Our tight ends will not be our Achilles Heel however, so the whole Watson thing is another head scratcher.

 

At the time, Pitta was no guarantee and Gilmore and Maxx were probably in need of a veteran presence.

I'm sure Watson wouldn't be here if they had knew Pitta would play.

But for now, just a real solid, smart veteran for an offense that loves tight ends.

[757RavensFan]

Watson was brought in for veteran leadership since Pitta's return was unknown.  Like @rmw10 said, when he was brought in, Williams was our ONLY healthy and available TE with game experience.  

If I recall correctly, Watson's numbers from 2015 were higher than all of the Ravens WR's except for Aiken.  You can't deny his production. His signing was a no brainer to me. 

[JoeyFlex5]

10 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

The sarcasm is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

Lol I'm glad my contributions aren't going unnoticed.

[Jacquouille]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Production at the TE position mostly...

If he packs on 10lbs he could be an All Pro OLB!!!

Edited July 21, 2016 by Jacquouille

[Kinda_Dante]

Just now, Jacquouille said:

If he packs on 10lbs he could be an All Pro OLB!!!

As long as it's fast twitch functional muscle.

[rmcjacket23]

IF, and I'm still not convinced it will actually happen, Pitta is indeed "back" and able to produce at similar levels to what we saw in the past, I think Pitta and Maxx will be the pass catching TEs and Gillmore and Watson will be primarily the run blocking TEs.

Watson and Gillmore are productive TEs that can do both, but I don't think their best attribute is as pass catchers.

With a fully healthy TE core, I don't see Watson being here more than one year.

I think he's a relatively expensive "insurance policy" for Pitta and Gillmore, who were both significantly injured at the time, and the fact that Maxx is still a young TE. 

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, 757RavensFan said:

Watson was brought in for veteran leadership since Pitta's return was unknown.  Like @rmw10 said, when he was brought in, Williams was our ONLY healthy and available TE with game experience.  

If I recall correctly, Watson's numbers from 2015 were higher than all of the Ravens WR's except for Aiken.  You can't deny his production. His signing was a no brainer to me. 

Watson is sort of an anomaly to me. There are years in his career where he produced as a pass catcher quite well. From 2010-2012 in Cleveland, he averaged 51 catches a year for roughly 550 yards. Not a horrible season, but not great.

But then in his first two seasons in NO (2013-2014), he wasn't used as a pass catcher basically at all, averaging roughly 20 catches a season. Granted, Jimmy Graham was there for some of that, but the only seasons I see him with quality production is seasons where he's basically the exclusive pass catching TE on the offense, much like 2015 was in NO with no Jimmy Graham.

Its certainly going to be a crowded TE core this season, so I don't see him producing anywhere near the level he did last season. If he settled in around 2 catches a game, I think that would be reasonable.

[Tank 92]

5 hours ago, Danny D said:

He's always been a serviceable Tight End, but the best year he ever had was with Drew Brees last year.  Brees targeted him more due to the loss of Jimmy Graham.  Not certain why we needed another Tight End if Maxx Williams, Pitta and Gilmore are really ready to blossom.

Our tight ends will not be our Achilles Heel however, so the whole Watson thing is another head scratcher.

 

Our FO just can't do anything right, huh.

[Kinda_Dante]

4 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

Our FO just can't do anything right, huh.

Oh you haven't heard? We're all getting together and petitioning for OZ to be fired and for some of the forum members to run the FO.

 

(Please note the sarcasm)

[ellicottraven]

A complete and competitive TE is what Watson will bring to the Ravens.

[edthehead]

B.Watson will teach our young TE players

how to be a pro,

how to take care of your body,

work ethic , decision making 

I am of the few who will not depend on his production ( a big help) 

[jazz1988]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

IF, and I'm still not convinced it will actually happen, Pitta is indeed "back" and able to produce at similar levels to what we saw in the past, I think Pitta and Maxx will be the pass catching TEs and Gillmore and Watson will be primarily the run blocking TEs.

Watson and Gillmore are productive TEs that can do both, but I don't think their best attribute is as pass catchers.

With a fully healthy TE core, I don't see Watson being here more than one year.

I think he's a relatively expensive "insurance policy" for Pitta and Gillmore, who were both significantly injured at the time, and the fact that Maxx is still a young TE. 

 Money talks. I believe Watson  is making 4 million this season so I don't think he's going to be ask to be mainly a blocker this season unless his receiving skills just falls off. Gilmore is good blocker but you don't draft a tight end in the third round with expectation for him to be a good/great blocker only. I actually like Gilmore receiving skills  especially the toughness/aggressiveness he displays while fighting for more yards. I do agree that Watson may not be a Ravens  more than one year but that may only depend on how things pan out with Pitta and Gilmore health

[rmcjacket23]

20 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

 Money talks. I believe Watson  is making 4 million this season so I don't think he's going to be ask to be mainly a blocker this season unless his receiving skills just falls off. Gilmore is good blocker but you don't draft a tight end in the third round with expectation for him to be a good/great blocker only. I actually like Gilmore receiving skills  especially the toughness/aggressiveness he displays while fighting for more yards. I do agree that Watson may not be a Ravens  more than one year but that may only depend on how things pan out with Pitta and Gilmore health

Maybe. The problem with this notion is then, almost by default, they'd basically be throwing in the towel so to speak on guys like Gillmore and Maxx Williams, who I suspect many fans would like to see get more playing time.

Mike Wallace is making $6M this year, and I don't expect him to have a gigantic role on offense either. I certainly don't expect him to be the leading receiver on the team, despite making twice as much as any other receiver on the team.

I agree that compensation plays a factor here, but I don't expect either of these guys to be the pass catching leaders at their position.

[stampedehero]

8 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

Watson was brought in for veteran leadership since Pitta's return was unknown.  Like @rmw10 said, when he was brought in, Williams was our ONLY healthy and available TE with game experience.  

If I recall correctly, Watson's numbers from 2015 were higher than all of the Ravens WR's except for Aiken.  You can't deny his production. His signing was a no brainer to me. 

757 That was a great succinct view.  Right to the point and I totally agree. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

Our FO just can't do anything right, huh.

 

5 hours ago, Kinda_Dante said:

Oh you haven't heard? We're all getting together and petitioning for OZ to be fired and for some of the forum members to run the FO.

 

(Please note the sarcasm)

For a number of years I really don't believe our Front Office has in aggregate made the type of decisions to improve our team and believe this will be the year it is clearly illustrated. During those years we've lost ground in overall talent. Was it a good  move to sign Watson?...bringing our TE total to 6 on the roster?  I'm saying No for a number of reasons.  First off, Joe will not get Watson the ball the way Dree Brees did.  If you think he will...well Newsome does too.  We parted with 4 million a year for Watson and he is 35.  Now they did sign him a number of  months ago, but was it a good decision? We'll let the results be the judge.

I've made it clear that though I respect his accomplishments, I am convinced Father Time has taken his toll on Newsome.  In many professions 60 is not old. But you add earlier era full contact football to the equation and 60 becomes 75.  I don't believe Newsome is our Future and if we are going to rebuild to make our team better in our foreseeable futures, it must be very soon. One can't be against turning over personnel if they have clearly demonstrated they are not playing like Ravens.  It can't happen soon enough for me and I do see it developing. 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2016 by Danny D

[stampedehero]

7 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Watson is sort of an anomaly to me. There are years in his career where he produced as a pass catcher quite well. From 2010-2012 in Cleveland, he averaged 51 catches a year for roughly 550 yards. Not a horrible season, but not great.

But then in his first two seasons in NO (2013-2014), he wasn't used as a pass catcher basically at all, averaging roughly 20 catches a season. Granted, Jimmy Graham was there for some of that, but the only seasons I see him with quality production is seasons where he's basically the exclusive pass catching TE on the offense, much like 2015 was in NO with no Jimmy Graham.

Its certainly going to be a crowded TE core this season, so I don't see him producing anywhere near the level he did last season. If he settled in around 2 catches a game, I think that would be reasonable.

I see Watson as a scoring TE. Since he was the default TE when Graham left town he proved his worth as a dependable player with good sense and savvy on the field.  He is insurance for Dennis and certainly with his acquisition I see Boyle being dropped. If Gilmore gets hurt, he seems to be a valuable player for tough third down situations either as a good hands guy or a value player for blocking schemes.  

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

11 hours ago, Danny D said:

He's always been a serviceable Tight End, but the best year he ever had was with Drew Brees last year.  Brees targeted him more due to the loss of Jimmy Graham.  Not certain why we needed another Tight End if Maxx Williams, Pitta and Gilmore are really ready to blossom.

Our tight ends will not be our Achilles Heel however, so the whole Watson thing is another head scratcher.

 

As said previously, only for sure guy was Maxx Williams. And since we know that you think he's terrible he wasn't going to hack it. And even With Watson's age he has... You know production. So even if you didn't think our young guns were going to hack it the fact that you're saying that signing a veteran who will be nothing but a positive influence in the locker room is a "head scratcher" is hilarious. He's not just here for that. Here's here to help out the young guns with their development. He's the ideal guy to have in a locker room. 

 

Pitta is a massive injur risk again, Crockett has injury issues and honestly Watson is a better reciever than he is.  At the very worst Watson is going to still get a lot of playing time via rotation. But if I had to bet money I'd say the starters are Pitta and Williams. Watson will fill in for when Pitta if/when he needs rest time. 

 

This does bring up an interesting piece though. What are we going to do about Crockett? I may think he's overrated but he's a pretty solid TE. Do we send him away if Pitta in the long haul turns out to be healthy and his old self?

Btw. Since my TE list got deleted. 15 TEs better than Crockett when healthy

Gronk

Kelce

Eifert

Greg Olsen

Reed

Witten

Gates

Green(yes, Ladarius Green is better)

Kyle Rudolph

Pitta when healthy is a lot better than Crockett was

Jimmy Graham when healthy though he did just sustain a bad injury

Martellus Bennett 

Zach Ertz

Julius Thomas(yes he's better)

Gary Barnridge despite being a one year wonder is better. 

And Walker.

 

that being said, Crockett is a very good player and does have value. He's a very good blocker and a decent reciever(and Danny D will say he was an awful draft pick), but with Watson here I feel like he won't get as much playing time. At best he can develop into another Martellus Bennett. Do we keep him for the future with Watson and Pitta here or no?

Edited July 21, 2016 by MTRavensFan
insult removed

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

 

Abraham Lincoln was a great President right?  I mean, he's on Mt. Rushmore he must be.

At one point in a debate Lincoln said of his opponent that man uses more words to say less than any man I have ever known. 

I'm not getting into a subjective TE list. We had enough on the roster. It is one of our few "depth" areas.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

18 minutes ago, Danny D said:

Abraham Lincoln was a great President right?  I mean, he's on Mt. Rushmore he must be.

At one point in a debate Lincoln said of his opponent that man uses more words to say less than any man I have ever known. 

I'm not getting into a subjective TE list. We had enough on the roster. It is one of our few "depth" areas.

Calling me dumb in a creative way so your point seems more credible. Clever, but not clever enough, especially since even though I'm wordy in my posts, I'm at least making valid points. We've got a lot of depth at the TE position. Two guys with upside(one with immense upside in Maxx), one unknown in Pitta for health reasons, and Watson the dependable veteran just incase the two TEs we have with injury problems get hurt. Having him here is a no brainer.

 

But sure. I'm saying nothing cause I'm an idiot right? Only because I'm wordy.

 

And it is a valid discussion. We might be overcrowded and have another talented player in Boyle coming off of suspension whom I think could be a similar player to Crockett. 

Edited July 21, 2016 by LosT_in_TranSlatioN

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

On December 6, 2015 at 4:54 PM, Danny D said:

As Abraham Lincoln said of Stephen Douglas in the great Illinois debate that framed that era..."That man uses more words to say less than any man I have known."

Wow. Repetitive much? Even in that debate you got disproved as well. I don't give a damn if I'm wordy, I at least have an underlying point in their backed up by facts. As I've said previously, this is a valid discussion, but signing Watson was not foolish by any means. Surprising? Sure, and very short term but pitta isn't reliable and we felt we needed some more depth in addition to having a veteran presence in the locker room. Not head scratching as you've said at all.   

 

But sure, you won't read my post because it's freaking wordy

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

This does bring up an interesting piece though. What are we going to do about Crockett? I may think he's overrated but he's a pretty solid TE. Do we send him away if Pitta in the long haul turns out to be healthy and his old self?

that being said, Crockett is a very good player and does have value. He's a very good blocker and a decent reciever(and Danny D will say he was an awful draft pick), but with Watson here I feel like he won't get as much playing time. At best he can develop into another Martellus Bennett. Do we keep him for the future with Watson and Pitta here or no?

I think you and I debated this before about Crocket and him being over-rated.  I highly disagree because that means Pitta was over-rated, he just had a good post season run and helped us win a SB, so that obviously gives most fans a edge on the two.  But if you look at numbers Pitta and Crocket had very identical break out years, I wont break it down like last time.  He has only played two years and showed massive improvements this year, I think he will be a beast for us in the future, barring injury which could become an issue with him, sadly.  While Pittas first two years could have said to be a disappoint judged by the same standards. 

That being said, this is one reason I wasn't a fan of signing Watson, It hinders the development of the younger players, but I understand it, theres a difference.  Crocket was hurt, Boyle suspended, Max in only his second year, we needed someone to catch some passes and if you want to rely on Pitta, psh good luck.