Most disappointing Ravens players

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

18 minutes ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

Generally speaking, more is better. But if you don't like interception data how about that he had more sacks in 2004 and more passes defended in 2004. Seems like he did more of everything prior to 2005 when what happened? Deion got more snaps.

What if...I don't deal with what if's, I deal with what actually happened. It is clear that Chad was a better player before Deion got here and started taking snaps away from him.

Right, Billick was ultimately fired for not producing. That's usually what does the trick. That could just be from poor talent evaluation, poor coaching, or your players deciding they don't have to listen to you anymore and they do their own thing. The inmates started to run the asylum and that all started when Deion came to town. You don't have to take my word for it. You can read about it if you like. If you haven't read "Next Man Up," then I suggest you do so before you decide to bash me on my opinion of how disruptive Deion was in the locker room.

I'm not bashing... just calling out the fact that his presence held back promising young players. You have yet to offer one to support that claim - while instead choosing to harp on one player mentioned with a few stats that dont even really support your claim. BTW he didnt have more PD's... he had 3 in both. He had .5 sacks more in '04 than '05, somewhat negligible. He had like 10 more tackles in '05 and 2 FF to 0 in '04. 

Generally more is better, but more of one stat doesnt mean better player. If so, then how do you separate the fact that he had .5 more sacks in '04 and 2 more INT's, but 2 more FF, 10 more tackles, and 2 more starts in '05? Since he had more "mores" in '05 he was better then, right? I'm gonna go with things like coverage yards/snap and things like that to judge him since thats what a CB's job is - to not let the guy he's covering get yards. But, im not gonna keep going into minute details on that - you have your opinion on what makes a better season for a DB and I have mine.... but this is distracting from the point that you havent named a young DB that Sanders held back.

 

Billick was re-upped with a new contract in '06, the year after Sanders' last season. Hard to say he caused his firing.

Every coach starts to lose their control on players over time. But, they were clearly bought in in '06 when they went 13-3.

And that locker room issue was everyone and came to head in '07 with guys like Derrick Mason, Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, McAlister, even Todd Heap, Ogden and Kelly Gregg said Billick had lost the locker room...

The issue was Billick and his handling of the players - not any individual player himself. I dont care what some article says... theres plenty on the subject and like you said - i watched and lived through it. The real issue was Billick was condescending at times, and was supposed to be this offensive genius who time and time again stuck behind and favored crap QBs and the defensive stars were tired of carrying the team with no help from the offense, and continually watching the offensive coach play favorites with his guys while they didnt hold up their end of the bargain in terms of winning.

There were different rules for different players; and it went beyond that. Players were upset with Ozzie renegging on promises and contract offers. The players did start running the asylum, but Deion Sanders wasnt the problem. If you're going to make that claim, then youve got to throw Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Chris McAlister, and Derrick Mason in there as players who disappointed bc they were just as responsible for that divide.... yet those guys hung around and were a part of the massive turn around with Harbs.

Blaming Deion Sanders for an entire organization cluster bomb that had been brewing before he got there, and continued well after he left (think '12 regular season with Harbs - Ray, Ed, Pollard, etc..).

[ravensdan]

That assessment of Billick is bogus. How is it his job to find a QB?  That's the gm. Billick completely changed the perception of the Ravens from the loser Browns to champions. That championship would not have been won with marchibroda or others. The HC job is to lead the team to the best of its ability not to be a coordinator only and that's what he did. 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, ravensdan said:

The HC job is to lead the team to the best of its ability not to be a coordinator only and that's what he did. 

Bravo

[Tiznut]

10 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

Well if you want to get snippy about it...you don't have to go slinging names. You can disagree with me if you like about something. Others can feel free to disagree with me all they want. I don't think Sanders was a great signing. The reason why he didn't play a lot is because he was still nursing that toe. He was awful in the locker room and no, I am not making that up, you simply have to read "Next man up" to hear all about that.

You do know there's a difference between calling your post arrogant and ignorant and calling you arrogant and ignorant right?

 

[Tiznut]

31 minutes ago, ravensdan said:

That assessment of Billick is bogus. How is it his job to find a QB?  That's the gm. Billick completely changed the perception of the Ravens from the loser Browns to champions. That championship would not have been won with marchibroda or others. The HC job is to lead the team to the best of its ability not to be a coordinator only and that's what he did. 

How is it people don't realize billick had a say in boller being drafted 

[K-Dog]

People that argue with opinions.... LOL

[JoeyFlex5]

10 hours ago, ravensdan said:

That assessment of Billick is bogus. How is it his job to find a QB?  That's the gm. Billick completely changed the perception of the Ravens from the loser Browns to champions. That championship would not have been won with marchibroda or others. The HC job is to lead the team to the best of its ability not to be a coordinator only and that's what he did. 

But billick handpicked boller and pounded the table for him. Without billick It is a guarantee that we would have been nowhere near boller

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

14 hours ago, ravensdan said:

That assessment of Billick is bogus. How is it his job to find a QB?  That's the gm. Billick completely changed the perception of the Ravens from the loser Browns to champions. That championship would not have been won with marchibroda or others. The HC job is to lead the team to the best of its ability not to be a coordinator only and that's what he did. 

Billick hand picked Boller as his guy. Yea its the GMs job, but if the coach says get me this guy - thats my guy and ill win with him... you get him. And then the coach has to follow through or deal with the consequences.

That was Billicks pick all the way, and its part of what got him fired, ultimately.

[ravensdan]

4 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

But billick handpicked boller and pounded the table for him. Without billick It is a guarantee that we would have been nowhere near boller

Who was still better than the previous parade of horrendous QBs. Unfortunately finding the right QB is the hardest thing to do from a team building standpoint in all of sports. They are all a shot in the dark coming out. Case in point Manning v Leaf was a real debate. Regardless that should not be what Billick is primarily judged for. If that's the case lets crucify Belichick as well as his gm track record is bad. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Just now, ravensdan said:

Who was still better than the previous parade of horrendous QBs. Unfortunately finding the right QB is the hardest thing to do from a team building standpoint in all of sports. They are all a shot in the dark coming out. Case in point Manning v Leaf was a real debate. Regardless that should not be what Billick is primarily judged for. If that's the case lets crucify Belichick as well as his gm track record is bad. 

No ones saying that... if you read my post i pointed to a number of other things (treatment of players, lack of discipline in some cases, condescending toward others).

But, he was touted as an offensive mastermind. The D was already strong and in place when he got here - he was supposed to be the guy that came in got the passing game going after orchestrating the high flying Vikings. He struggled with it, and blamed QB play for the most part.

So, if the QB is the problem, well Mr. Billick - hand pick your guy then. He did, and it never panned out. Though he stuck by Boller far too long, and that clearly ticked the Defense off, as they carried the team and wanted some help - while Billick treated them one way, and favored Boller and his offensive guys even as they underperformed.

It was a slew of things, but the Boller failure is largely on Billicks shoulders. He hand selected and failed to develop him.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

I am going to say JIMMY SMITH is my most disappointing Raven. I am not even sure he is one of the top 2 CB's on the roster. I get it, the FO does not want to be wrong or embarrassed by re-signing this guy to a nice deal, so they will darn sure trot this guy out. He has more excuses for crappy play, than a used car salesman trying to sell a lemon. I sure hope he proves me wrong, or the coaching staff will bench him if he stinks again this year, I dont care how much he makes, we need the best guys out there. So far, this has been a waste of cap money

[EdTheMythicalOne]

5 hours ago, OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL said:

I am going to say JIMMY SMITH is my most disappointing Raven. I am not even sure he is one of the top 2 CB's on the roster. I get it, the FO does not want to be wrong or embarrassed by re-signing this guy to a nice deal, so they will darn sure trot this guy out. He has more excuses for crappy play, than a used car salesman trying to sell a lemon. I sure hope he proves me wrong, or the coaching staff will bench him if he stinks again this year, I dont care how much he makes, we need the best guys out there. So far, this has been a waste of cap money

Early on Smith was looking like a bust, but then he improved a great deal and was a highly rated CB. Together with a healthier Webb playing at a high level I thought it was the start of something beautiful. Then more knee and back trouble for Webb and Smith got that lisfranc injury. Lisfrancs are nothing to sneeze at. They are tough to come back from and take a long time to heal. They have ended careers. If you don't know what the lisfranc is then take a look. Then you'll realize why it is such a rough injury. It refers to that whole area of the foot. We don't know what part of the lisfranc Jimmy Smith injured, but regardless of the fact anything you do on the field no matter what position you play, you need your feet. Heck, Jon Ogden retired a bit early because of his big toe. He had turf toe in it and it never healed up right and he made him feel that he wasn't nearly as effective as he could be.

Edited August 3, 2016 by EdTheMythicalOne

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

. Lisfrancs are nothing to sneeze at. They are tough to come back from and take a long time to heal. They have ended careers. If you don't know what the lisfranc is then take a look. Then you'll realize why it is such a rough injury.

Yeah, I've tried in the past to tell them that injury is a beaut.  They weren't enamored.

[JoeyFlex5]

5 hours ago, OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL said:

I am going to say JIMMY SMITH is my most disappointing Raven. I am not even sure he is one of the top 2 CB's on the roster. I get it, the FO does not want to be wrong or embarrassed by re-signing this guy to a nice deal, so they will darn sure trot this guy out. He has more excuses for crappy play, than a used car salesman trying to sell a lemon. I sure hope he proves me wrong, or the coaching staff will bench him if he stinks again this year, I dont care how much he makes, we need the best guys out there. So far, this has been a waste of cap money

Jimmy's reasons for struggling are very legit, and before the lisfranc when he had no excuses, he didn't need one, because he was a top 5 Cb in the league for close to a 2 year stretch and turned in that performance with a more daunting lineup than any other cb in the league at that time, including Antonio brown and aj green 3-4 times, I believe josh Gordon twice, Calvin Johnson, brandon Marshall who he frustrated so bad he threw a hissy fit more than once, Andre Johnson, kelvin Benjamin, Julio Jones, and we faced the saints and the chargers who have potent pass offenses, jimmy made all those top guys non factors and helped shut down some.high octane pass offenses in that stretch. 

 

He was no joke pre Injury

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

On 8/2/2016 at 8:01 PM, EdTheMythicalOne said:

Early on Smith was looking like a bust, but then he improved a great deal and was a highly rated CB. Together with a healthier Webb playing at a high level I thought it was the start of something beautiful. Then more knee and back trouble for Webb and Smith got that lisfranc injury. Lisfrancs are nothing to sneeze at. They are tough to come back from and take a long time to heal. They have ended careers. If you don't know what the lisfranc is then take a look. Then you'll realize why it is such a rough injury. It refers to that whole area of the foot. We don't know what part of the lisfranc Jimmy Smith injured, but regardless of the fact anything you do on the field no matter what position you play, you need your feet. Heck, Jon Ogden retired a bit early because of his big toe. He had turf toe in it and it never healed up right and he made him feel that he wasn't nearly as effective as he could be.

Just calling em as I see em, dont get me wrong, the potential is there, but if you told me he is playing like a first rounder worthy of a big contract, thats laughable. We have just not seen a return on the investment, and to be fair, thats all we can ask for. I like Jimmy, and want to see him fo well, the team needs that. But, the skill, speed, and tenacity to be that shut down corner as he is being paid to be, just isnt there, yet. For those that negged me, you are in denial.

[trevorsteadman]

2 minutes ago, OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL said:

Just calling em as I see em, dont get me wrong, the potential is there, but if you told me he is playing like a first rounder worthy of a big contract, thats laughable. We have just not seen a return on the investment, and to be fair, thats all we can ask for. I like Jimmy, and want to see him fo well, the team needs that. But, the skill, speed, and tenacity to be that shut down corner as he is being paid to be, just isnt there, yet. For those that negged me, you are in denial.

You are in denial when in 2014 before he went down with an injury the only two cornerbacks rated higher than him at the time were Sherman and Harris Jr. by a small margin. All of last season he was dealing with his foot that the staff tried to band-aid together. Like Harbaugh said in his press conference, cornerbacks are on a razor's edge every play and them not being 100% to cut, run, and do anything at 100% is huge. Jimmy Smith has consistently shut down cornerbacks such as Antonio Brown, Brandon Marshall, and several others and Marshall came out at the end of the 2014 season and even said the best corner he played that last season was Jimmy Smith.

Fans like you bash players because of their struggles last season and don't even take time to look into the details of why players struggled. The team had no pass rush from Suggs going down as well. He didn't have a solid option on the other side of the field until half way through the season while still battling an injury.

Jimmy Smith, with the screws now out of his foot, will be a top 5 cornerback in this league. 

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

8 hours ago, trevorsteadman said:

You are in denial when in 2014 before he went down with an injury the only two cornerbacks rated higher than him at the time were Sherman and Harris Jr. by a small margin. All of last season he was dealing with his foot that the staff tried to band-aid together. Like Harbaugh said in his press conference, cornerbacks are on a razor's edge every play and them not being 100% to cut, run, and do anything at 100% is huge. Jimmy Smith has consistently shut down cornerbacks such as Antonio Brown, Brandon Marshall, and several others and Marshall came out at the end of the 2014 season and even said the best corner he played that last season was Jimmy Smith.

Fans like you bash players because of their struggles last season and don't even take time to look into the details of why players struggled. The team had no pass rush from Suggs going down as well. He didn't have a solid option on the other side of the field until half way through the season while still battling an injury.

Jimmy Smith, with the screws now out of his foot, will be a top 5 cornerback in this league. 

Dude, I get it, you are wearing your heart on your sleeve, I WANT HIM TO DO WELL, hopefully he does. I also wanted Pitta to do well, and my opinion was from a business perspective. I will be pleasantly surprised if he steps up. You act like I just fell off the turnip truck, and I stole your diaper from you. All I am saying is if a young whippersnapper steps up and challenges the position, then no matter what we are paying the guy, the younger, say Canady for example, not that he will, but If that happens, somebody playing better no matter who it is, should get the spot if they earn it. Paycheck size, and round drafted should not determine a guaranteed starter spot. Like Correa may get Ilb, same dam thing. I totally get he is overcoming injuries, but we need the best possible to suit up, and win, cause 5-11 blows, and we gave up more points than we scored last year getting fried on the back end, in case you forgot

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

21 hours ago, OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL said:

Just calling em as I see em, dont get me wrong, the potential is there, but if you told me he is playing like a first rounder worthy of a big contract, thats laughable. We have just not seen a return on the investment, and to be fair, thats all we can ask for. I like Jimmy, and want to see him fo well, the team needs that. But, the skill, speed, and tenacity to be that shut down corner as he is being paid to be, just isnt there, yet. For those that negged me, you are in denial.

The skill isnt there? But the potential is?

The skill is there. His health hasnt been. When hes actually been healthy he has balled out. Starting with that goal line stand against Crabtree in the SB (which if he did nothing else in his career, id say he was totally worth it based on those 2 plays alone).... and then continuing into the next season, season-and-a-half.

As was pointed out already he literally shut down the Who's Who of NFL WRs. They got nothing on him.

I can understand being upset with the injuries.... much like people were upset with Webb, Monroe, Camp, etc... but taking it beyond that and questioning his ability makes me feel like you didnt watch him when he was healthy, or just dont remember it.

The contract will make itself worth while. He was battling injury all last year. Clearly he wasnt 100% and the screws affected him. Theyre out now, and yes, once again its going to take a little while for him to recover and get back to being himself. But, if not by the start of the season then definitely by week 4 he'll be shutting guys down again. He and Wright are going to form a very formidable, and the most underrated CB duo in the league... and trio when you add in Powers.

This is going to be a sneaky good secondary... I know a lot of people are worried and view it as a weakness. But i think this is going to be one of the best secondaries in the league. Powers is going to turn out like a Corey Graham/Josh Wilson type signing. Weddle will be a Woodson-lite signing (lite. not like).  Wright will be a Top 20 corner again. Webb will thrive in his new role, and our depth is arguably the best its been in years (Price is a serious breakout candidate not getting a lot of attention).

This will all take pressure off Jimmy and allow him to return to playing like a Top 5 CB again. His play will be on par with the Petersons, the Shermans, Talib, Harris jr., etc... but he wont get the attention.

Optimism? Sure. But not completely unrealistic either.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

Did anybody mention Leon Searcy?

He was a former pro bowl tackle for the Steelers and Jags, ripped up his leg in his last season with the Jags. Came to Baltimore the same season they signed fellow disappointing Raven; QB Elvis Grbac. They gave him a $3 million bonus, signed him to a 3 year $31.5 million deal to be the RT! He tore a triceps in camp, came back from it and ripped it up again in practice, never played a snap for the Ravens.

[Guest]

Current Disappointments are the most meaningful and so I will briefly discuss Darren Waller.

Too much can be made of Weed concerns. Fear of the 4 game suspension haunts some Front Offices.  In their paranoia they project the 4 game loss of a player to the career loss of a player. This even so when a players long term impact with a team usually amounts to only his original term of years at signing.

However, Darren Waller is a different story.  Darren had a Weed issue in college and an ensuing suspension.  He was carefully questioned about that episode by our Front Office and promised the issue was behind him.  He appeared mature and motivated in that film clip.  We drafted him on that "commitment".  His skillset appeared ideal to today's requirements for a receiver in the NFL.  His tangibles at the NFL Combine indicated potential.

Then....He got positive for Weed again.  Never heard anything about his explanation, if there was one. I can recall being in crowded dorm rooms during college parties with a beer or a bottle of wine in my hands. If they had tested me for Weed though, it would have come back positive, though a joint or bong never touched my lips. Still, if I had an NFL contract, my judgement to put myself in that situation would be at issue.

He has hands like a pillow for absorbing footballs, but he drops them too frequently.  Castillo screamed at him the other day to "Get off the ------- ball."  I think he's a Pot Head and can't dedicate himself to football. 

"I was supposed to go to class......but I got high"

"The Ravens drafted me to catch a pass.......But I got high"

"Now everythings a mess.......and I know why"

"Because...I got high.........because I got high....because I got high"

Edited August 6, 2016 by Danny D

[EdTheMythicalOne]

12 hours ago, Danny D said:

Current Disappointments are the most meaningful and so I will briefly discuss Darren Waller.

Too much can be made of Weed concerns. Fear of the 4 game suspension haunts some Front Offices.  In their paranoia they project the 4 game loss of a player to the career loss of a player. This even so when a players long term impact with a team usually amounts to only his original term of years at signing.

However, Darren Waller is a different story.  Darren had a Weed issue in college and an ensuing suspension.  He was carefully questioned about that episode by our Front Office and promised the issue was behind him.  He appeared mature and motivated in that film clip.  We drafted him on that "commitment".  His skillset appeared ideal to today's requirements for a receiver in the NFL.  His tangibles at the NFL Combine indicated potential.

Then....He got positive for Weed again.  Never heard anything about his explanation, if there was one. I can recall being in crowded dorm rooms during college parties with a beer or a bottle of wine in my hands. If they had tested me for Weed though, it would have come back positive, though a joint or bong never touched my lips. Still, if I had an NFL contract, my judgement to put myself in that situation would be at issue.

He has hands like a pillow for absorbing footballs, but he drops them too frequently.  Castillo screamed at him the other day to "Get off the ------- ball."  I think he's a Pot Head and can't dedicate himself to football. 

"I was supposed to go to class......but I got high"

"The Ravens drafted me to catch a pass.......But I got high"

"Now everythings a mess.......and I know why"

"Because...I got high.........because I got high....because I got high"

I know you get a lot of flak around here and some people aren't too kind to you, but I try to be civil with you.

I think you're reaching a bit here on Waller. First of all he was a 6th round pick so you have to temper expectations with a guy drafted in the late rounds because of that. Sure he's got some freakish natural ability like size and speed. He's even supposed to have pretty good hands. But there is a reason why he dropped like that. One issue for sure was his off the field issues. The other major thing is where he played and that system. He didn't really run routes, so he doesn't. He's fast, but not shifty. If he beats you with his speed, good on him, but he's got to learn he can't outrun everyone. His blocking was suspect even as a WR. It was the Ravens hype train (which we're seeing here again) that made him out to be the next coming of Randy Moss or something. I would say his suspension for apparently pot is very disappointing just because there does seem to be a lot of potential here, but I don't call him one of the biggest disappointments.

If we're talking about some of the most recent ones:

Breshard Perriman: Only because he's been injured and can't get on the field. I can't really blame him for that, it is just genetics and bad luck right now and the fact that he's a 1st rounder with very high expectations tied to him.

Timmy Jernigan: So far...he's been his own worst enemy by committing stupid penalties and just allowing other guys to out work him. He's shown flashes and a break out season this year will change perceptions. He's a second round pick so it is time for him to perform.

Terrence Brooks: Along with Elam, Ravens thought they had their future starting safeties. Brooks has been injured and when he's on the field he looks like he gets lost in coverage at times and hasn't really made an impact. A third rounder should at least be a solid starter if not a big time depth piece. He hasn't been either yet.

Kyle Arrington: Brought in to be nickel back, was not very useful even in that role.

Kendrick Lewis: Was brought in to help sure up the safety position and be a starter when we really needed the help, he wasn't much help even as a back up.

Lorenzo Taliafero: Sure he was a 4th round pick and you start getting into the depth/fringe player pool here. But the Ravens are usually pretty good with their picks here and he showed some promise as a rookie as a potential short yardage and goal line guy. He wanted to set out to prove he was more than that and got himself in fantastic shape, got hurt, and now his future is in jeopardy because he's still not healthy.

And again, most of these guys the jury is still out on because they are young or simply have injury issues.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

what about michael huff, man... that dude didnt last half a season and he was supposed to be slam dunk the next man up

[Guest]

11 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

I know you get a lot of flak around here and some people aren't too kind to you, but I try to be civil with you.

I think you're reaching a bit here on Waller. First of all he was a 6th round pick so you have to temper expectations with a guy drafted in the late rounds because of that. Sure he's got some freakish natural ability like size and speed.

 

Ed, I have no problem with civil disagreement.

Truth be told, for me, I've been in an "elevated" state too, so I give a pass those that got elevated as well. But I have an abiding conviction about where we need to go and it's contrary to what is currently the popular belief.

Regarding Waller, his situation is especially painful to me for a number of reasons.  Firstly, it's painful due to the overall state of our receiving corps, especially last year.  I thought at six five, good hands and 4.4 speed he could become the dynamic receiver we have badly needed @ a bargain draft slot. So did Newsome. However I went on record here before the draft Newsome should risk him. Furthermore, I probably would have taken him earlier than Newsome, perhaps as high as Boyle's slot and it would certainly look a large failure at this juncture.

I also don't believe you need "years" to evaluate a player, nor a chair in a Front Office to spot talent or to spot what is not adequate talent. But what is most disappointing is this young man made a promise that was critical to his career and a promise that involved the Ravens and for whatever reason he could not keep it. So in his case at least, Past Behavior was the best indicator of Future Conduct.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I don't care what you believe.. You need years to evaluate a new player. What if we evaluated Ray rice in year 1? He would've been just another guy who can't stay on the field. What about torrey Smith early on? Until game 3 he looked like he would never catch a ball. Tyron Smith was average until he was a few years in and developed, Dennis pitta was an absolute nobody for his first 2 years and ed Dickson was our guy. 

Edited August 7, 2016 by Moderator 3

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

What if we evaluated Ray rice in year 1? He would've been just another guy who can't stay on the field. What about torrey Smith early on?

We'll see about the rest of your post, however,  Ray Rice was in a backfield with Willis McGahee and LeRon McClain. Pretty sure one went over 1000 and the other was dang close. Traditionally the Raven's don't push rookies. But he looked good from the inception.

Torrey Smith was one of my key selections, so not gonna debate that one either.

I'm good at games, very good, so I will produce a game for next years draft. We'll see who drafts best here. It will be very simple and not require tuning in during the whole draft.

Edited August 7, 2016 by Danny D

[Tiznut]

we don't have a long enough history to say what the Ravens do and don't do with rookie rbs.  Jam was fed a lot  as a rookie while Ray wasn't. Two different coaches two different ways the high pick rb was used early on.  Ftr Jam is the only first rd rb for the Ravens and rice is the only 2nd rd one. That very well may be one reason (along with hc) as to why one got the bulk early on. 

[balfan23]

18 hours ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

Timmy Jernigan: So far...he's been his own worst enemy by committing stupid penalties and just allowing other guys to out work him. He's shown flashes and a break out season this year will change perceptions. He's a second round pick so it is time for him to perform.

I couldn't agree more. Timmy is one of my focal points on this year's team. We need him to step it up and be what we thought we drafted. Not only was he a second rounder, the FO has stated that they felt they got a 1st round talent and that he was a steal. He certainly hasn't shown that as of yet. 

We needs someone to be a disruptive force on the D front and it needs to be Timmy. Williams is a rock in the center, but we need someone aside from the OLB position to put pressure in the backfield. Guy isn't going to generate it. Urban? KLM? They are later round pics who have had injury issues. If Timmy fills that role, it will go a long way toward us being a potentially dominant defense. If not, then we're really just going to be OK, but not great along the defensive front. 

[EdTheMythicalOne]

4 hours ago, Danny D said:

We'll see about the rest of your post, however,  Ray Rice was in a backfield with Willis McGahee and LeRon McClain. Pretty sure one went over 1000 and the other was dang close. Traditionally the Raven's don't push rookies. But he looked good from the inception.

Torrey Smith was one of my key selections, so not gonna debate that one either.

I'm good at games, very good, so I will produce a game for next years draft. We'll see who drafts best here. It will be very simple and not require tuning in during the whole draft.

I could be mistaken, but I am pretty sure that season when we had the three headed monster attack the leader was Le'Ron McClain with around 900 yards. I think Willis got hurt during the season at some point, and they were easing Ray into the fold.

[Tiznut]

6 minutes ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

I could be mistaken, but I am pretty sure that season when we had the three headed monster attack the leader was Le'Ron McClain with around 900 yards. I think Willis got hurt during the season at some point, and they were easing Ray into the fold.

McGahee had 1200 yards 

http://www.nfl.com/player/willismcgahee/2505674/careerstats

Lol wrong yr my bad 

Edited August 7, 2016 by Tiznut

[EdTheMythicalOne]

3 hours ago, balfan23 said:

I couldn't agree more. Timmy is one of my focal points on this year's team. We need him to step it up and be what we thought we drafted. Not only was he a second rounder, the FO has stated that they felt they got a 1st round talent and that he was a steal. He certainly hasn't shown that as of yet. 

We needs someone to be a disruptive force on the D front and it needs to be Timmy. Williams is a rock in the center, but we need someone aside from the OLB position to put pressure in the backfield. Guy isn't going to generate it. Urban? KLM? They are later round pics who have had injury issues. If Timmy fills that role, it will go a long way toward us being a potentially dominant defense. If not, then we're really just going to be OK, but not great along the defensive front. 

I know I have mentioned Guy before, and I swear I am not his agent. But, the guy led the D-Line with sacks and was second in tackles to Williams.He only started 7 games. I know I can look up tackles, but another good stat to track would be tackles for loss. For a guy like Brandon Williams who kills the running game, stopping the back for negative yards is like his sack. I'll have to do some snooping to see if I can find a database for that.

Jernigan has not stepped it up, but sometimes it takes guys a couple of years. First year they aren't used to the NFL speed and longer schedule. Second year they should be physically ready and you'd hope mentally too. That seems to be where Jernigan stumbles. But, by a guy's third year in the league as a top draft pick, they should be producing.