Most disappointing Ravens players

[Drew P]

Corby Jones

[Ravenseconbeast]

Dominque Foxworth.  

Got paid like king.  Played like garbage.

[JoeyFlex5]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Not that the Ravens are bad at drafting recently (which they aren't, I just wouldn't say they've been as good as previously), but the Packers are sort of the gold standard for successful drafts recently from what I've seen.

They get 2-3 pretty good starters almost annually in the draft, and they are really, really good on days 2-3. 

Most notable day 2/3 picks since 08:

Jordy Nelson, Josh Sitton, TJ Lang, Morgan Burnett, James Starks, Randall Cobb, Casey Hayward, Mike Daniels, Eddie Lacy, David Bakhtiari, Micah Hyde, and a handful of others.

And that's including some of their quality 1st round picks.

 

Seattle, KC, and Denver have also been top notch. Minnesota and Oakland are really nailing it since 13 as well drafting franchise qbs and a plethora of above average starters on each side of the ball. I would say the ravens are just behind those guys as of late, and we've only had one pick in the top half since 08 compared to those teams who spent a long time in the middle or higher up while we were in the mid to late 20s. 

[Ravensfan23]

My list will be mainly from injury. 

Dan Cody. He was expected to be a really strong pass rusher and compliment to Suggs. If not of his injury, 1st day of camp i believe, I thought he and Suggs would have been monstrous. 

Sergio Kindle was already mentioned. 

David Reed was an explosive shifty guy and could have been a long term fix as a returner and even a slot WR. He definitely could have helped change the narrative of Ozzie not being able to draft WRs, but i thought Cam used him completely wrong. 

LJ Smith enough said

The last guy on my list was never officially a Raven but he was as close as you get without actually joining the team. Terrell Owens. I still remember exactly where i was when news broke that we had finally nabbed a top flight WR. Only to have the rug pulled out from under me about an hour later. Very disappointing. 

[darklight1216]

I'm not sure any player disappointed me as much as Ray Rice did 2 years ago. Players get in trouble, but he was one of the last guys I would have thought...

He had much more than just potential though so I have an alternative:

 

 Billy Cundiff.

I still remember 2009 when Steve Hauschka looked like he would be the guy to pick up where Stover left off. Then the Ravens played Minnesota and fell behind early. Flacco engineered what should have been a brilliant comeback. They just needed Hauschka to make a short indoor kick and he missed it. Eventually he kicked his way off the roster and was replaced by Billy Cundiff.

I think it was later in the same year that Cundiff was called upon to make a 56 yard to kick to break a tie against Pittsburgh. He wasn't able to win the game that time, but his kick was straight down the middle (just 3 yards short). In overtime, he nailed it.

Once again it seemed like the Ravens had their guy, but we know how that turned out.

 

More conventional picks include Marlon Brown, Sergio Kindle, Terrance Cody, and Torrey Smith. 

Yes, I know, one of these things is not like the others. Torrey showed enough that I began to hope he could be... well more than he was, to put it simply.

[purplepittabread88]

59 minutes ago, darklight1216 said:

I'm not sure any player disappointed me as much as Ray Rice did 2 years ago. Players get in trouble, but he was one of the last guys I would have thought...

He had much more than just potential though so I have an alternative:

 

 Billy Cundiff.

I still remember 2009 when Steve Hauschka looked like he would be the guy to pick up where Stover left off. Then the Ravens played Minnesota and fell behind early. Flacco engineered what should have been a brilliant comeback. They just needed Hauschka to make a short indoor kick and he missed it. Eventually he kicked his way off the roster and was replaced by Billy Cundiff.

I think it was later in the same year that Cundiff was called upon to make a 56 yard to kick to break a tie against Pittsburgh. He wasn't able to win the game that time, but his kick was straight down the middle (just 3 yards short). In overtime, he nailed it.

Once again it seemed like the Ravens had their guy, but we know how that turned out.

 

More conventional picks include Marlon Brown, Sergio Kindle, Terrance Cody, and Torrey Smith. 

Yes, I know, one of these things is not like the others. Torrey showed enough that I began to hope he could be... well more than he was, to put it simply.

I thought of putting Torrey but felt I would get slaughtered. I agree completely he didn't approve much at all after his rookie year. He was a very good player to start, but I always thought he could be better. 

[Tiznut]

2 minutes ago, purplepittabread88 said:

I thought of putting Torrey but felt I would get slaughtered. I agree completely he didn't approve much at all after his rookie year. He was a very good player to start, but I always thought he could be better. 

I'm the opposite. I think Torrey proved his worth especially as a 2nd rd pick. He was a guy wh initially struggled so we got Evans then he blew up vs the Rams.  Considering our history at wr he excelled for a 2nd rd pick and his third yr was statistically his best. He had highs in receptions, yards and ypg. His final year he had a high of 11 tds . The only thing that disappointed me was him leaving 

 

add to that a lot of posters seemed to favor Doss over him in camp that yr. So from my pov unless you expected Reggie waynesque numbers early on I don't see how Torrey failed to meet expectations to the point that he's the most disappointing Ravens player to anyone. 

[JoeyFlex5]

Torrey was a product of flacco and air-cameron/air-caldwell systems. I told everyone torrey was gonna fall off the face of the earth in SF because he can't produce if he has to work for the catch, he can rack up near pro bowl numbers with a qb who can take it deep and drop it right in the breadbasket with high arcing balls that he can just run run under. Torrey will never produce without a qb who can just throw 5 punts a game to him.

[flynismo]

Sergio Kindle for me. He could have been the next Suggs.

[flynismo]

41 minutes ago, Tiznut said:

I'm the opposite. I think Torrey proved his worth especially as a 2nd rd pick. He was a guy wh initially struggled so we got Evans then he blew up vs the Rams.  Considering our history at wr he excelled for a 2nd rd pick and his third yr was statistically his best. He had highs in receptions, yards and ypg. His final year he had a high of 11 tds . The only thing that disappointed me was him leaving 

 

add to that a lot of posters seemed to favor Doss over him in camp that yr. So from my pov unless you expected Reggie waynesque numbers early on I don't see how Torrey failed to meet expectations to the point that he's the most disappointing Ravens player to anyone. 

I absolutely hated the Torrey pick, I was steaming mad when we took him. He went on to become one of my favorite Ravens ever, not because of his play, which was uneven at best, but because he is a wonderful human being,

But all in all, Torrey was a disappointment, which is why we wouldn't even pay him #2 money to stay.

[Tiznut]

7 minutes ago, flynismo said:

I absolutely hated the Torrey pick, I was steaming mad when we took him. He went on to become one of my favorite Ravens ever, not because of his play, which was uneven at best, but because he is a wonderful human being,

But all in all, Torrey was a disappointment, which is why we wouldn't even pay him #2 money to stay.

He was offered #2 money. He was made an offer going into his last yr.  

 

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/02/03/ravens-made-torrey-smith-an-offer/

Edited July 23, 2016 by Tiznut

[Tiznut]

31 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Torrey was a product of flacco and air-cameron/air-caldwell systems. I told everyone torrey was gonna fall off the face of the earth in SF because he can't produce if he has to work for the catch, he can rack up near pro bowl numbers with a qb who can take it deep and drop it right in the breadbasket with high arcing balls that he can just run run under. Torrey will never produce without a qb who can just throw 5 punts a game to him.

Yes we want a wr that fits our system and the yr in sf saw instability at the qb position and an out of their league coaching staff. Can't solely use that to knock Torrey and with the new staff Torrey will be in a system he can play in again. 

 

Anyways this isn't a Torrey thread so I'll move on 

[The Raven]

14 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Sergio Kindle for me. He could have been the next Lawrence Taylor

Fixed

[redrum52]

51 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Fixed

So much talent.  I don't know about what you said, but the only reason he fell was character concerns, I think.  Damn...  I thought he was going to be a pass rushing MONSTER.

 

Lmao.  His draft profile http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/sergio-kindle?id=496804

Edited July 23, 2016 by redrum52

[purplepittabread88]

9 hours ago, Tiznut said:

I'm the opposite. I think Torrey proved his worth especially as a 2nd rd pick. He was a guy wh initially struggled so we got Evans then he blew up vs the Rams.  Considering our history at wr he excelled for a 2nd rd pick and his third yr was statistically his best. He had highs in receptions, yards and ypg. His final year he had a high of 11 tds . The only thing that disappointed me was him leaving 

 

add to that a lot of posters seemed to favor Doss over him in camp that yr. So from my pov unless you expected Reggie waynesque numbers early on I don't see how Torrey failed to meet expectations to the point that he's the most disappointing Ravens player to anyone. 

No I agree here 82 was amazing and way exceeded 2nd round expectations, however I am saying he could have been so much better imo. He was a great deep ball threat, and I thought he could be basically a new Reggie Wayne if he could develop some under routs. You have to recall, only once did he surpass 50 catches, and that was 2013, were I could have probably been fore feed 50 catches. That was also the only time he sniffed 1000 yards. Like I said very good, but could have been great.

[JoeyFlex5]

9 hours ago, redrum52 said:

So much talent.  I don't know about what you said, but the only reason he fell was character concerns, I think.  Damn...  I thought he was going to be a pass rushing MONSTER.

 

Lmao.  His draft profile http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/sergio-kindle?id=496804

Kindle really did have talent through the roof. Im still bitter about that one and I think it still has a massive trickle down effect on this team.

[Tank 92]

12 hours ago, darklight1216 said:

I'm not sure any player disappointed me as much as Ray Rice did 2 years ago. Players get in trouble, but he was one of the last guys I would have thought.

i thought of RR as well, but it was 2013 that I think was the start of his downfall. He lost focus that season and was a complete mess. And I still think Ray Lewis' departure had a huge negative effect on him. 

Edited July 23, 2016 by Tank 92

[balfan23]

I understand bringing up RR, but his is a different story than just disappointment. I can't consider Torrey, despite whether you think he didn't match your expectation of his potential. He was far too great a contributor to the team to consider the most disappointing. Honestly, for a Ravens 2nd round selection, he was well above the norm.

That with that in mind ... I'll say the biggest Ravens disappointment is their 2nd round drafting since 2010. My answer may be a cop out by not naming a given player, but if we remove Torrey and KO from that group. We have Kindle, Cody, Upshaw and A. Brown. Now, Upshaw at least made some contribution, but the other 3 were serious disappointments. With Jah Reid being a high 3rd rounder that we traded up for, I almost want to add him to the list. 

I really hope we don't add Jernigan to this list in another 2 years. Still too early to pass judgement, but I have concerns that his career could head the way of Cody - lots of promise in year 1, not meeting expectations in year 2, then year 3 Cody fell off the map ...  so IMO this is a big year for Jernigan. If he's supposedly a 1st round talent that we were so fortunate to get in the mid-2nd, he needs to show it now. 

[Tiznut]

Balfan it's the kindle experience that makes me paranoid about our second rd picks especially when we have traded out of the first as we did with kindle and upshaw. That said I liked upshaw but he just wasn't the pass rusher we wanted/needed 

[EdTheMythicalOne]

There are a couple of ways we could go about this. You have the most disappointing draft picks and then the most disappointing FA signings. People have already mentioned quite a number of draft picks, but I see a few that people didn't mention:

WR: Patrick Johnson: 2nd round 1998. He proves that being a track star and being able to outrun Carl Lewis (yes, he beat Carl Lewis in a race) doesn't mean you can actually play football or catch one.

WR: Travis Taylor: 1st round, 10th overall in 2000. I am surprised I didn't see him mentioned as others mentioned Clayton. While Clayton was promising and was derailed by injuries, Taylor just didn't have the talent.

DT: Dwan Edwards: 2nd round 2004. He had a long but rather pedestrian career as a rotational lineman. Not what you are expecting from a guy drafted this high.

OT: Adam Terry: 2nd round 2005. Ravens thought they had a piece for a long time, but Terry never had the mental approach for the game or the toughness.

WR: Yamon Figurs: 3rd round 2007. He was drafted ahead of Marshal Yanda...yep. They knew he was going to be more of a return ace if anything and hoped his speed and return skills would translate into a nice "catch and run" guy. They forgot that guys built like him: 6'0'' and listed at a generous 174lbs tend to break in the NFL.

LB: Tavares Gooden: 3rd round 2008: Ravens thought they were getting a stud to start next to Ray Lewis for years to come. Um...not quite.

DE: Paul Kruger: 2nd round 2009: Ravens didn't know where to play him DE or OLB, but he helped figure that out for himself for barely being able to stay on the field. Turned in his best season in his last season with the team.

Some free agent signings that didn't go quite as how we planned:

QB: Scott Mitchell: Surprised nobody mentioned this flop. Ravens thought his big arm would produce 4,000 yards and 30+ TDs with the weapons we had.

CB: Samari Rolle: Ravens thought he would be a shut down guy across from the other shut down guy they had, Chris McAlister. Nope.

CB: Deion Sanders: Not sure what the Ravens thought they would be getting out of him. He showed flashes every once in awhile, but that toe injury and age showed that "Prime Time" wasn't even good enough to be "Part Time." Even worse is that he came with some baggage in the name of Corey Fuller who used the leverage that he helped the Ravens get Prime Time signed to get another contract from the Ravens even though they wanted to cut him.

 

[Guest]

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 6:07 PM, Ravensfan23 said:

 

Dan Cody. He was expected to be a really strong pass rusher and compliment to Suggs. If not of his injury, 1st day of camp i believe, I thought he and Suggs would have been monstrous. 

 

Wow........blast from the past.  Agree he could have been "monstrous"  He was pretty fast for a big man and he came at you with his long arms flailing like Clyde the Orangutan in Every Which Way but Loose.

Still, the Front Office owns him.

[Tiznut]

Not sure how you could say that sanders, after 4 yrs off, was a disappointment. 

[EdTheMythicalOne]

2 minutes ago, Tiznut said:

Not sure how you could say that sanders, after 4 yrs off, was a disappointment. 

Because I was actually around to watch the guy play. He took time away from other players that should have been getting the reps. He was nothing close to being his former self, which at his advanced age nobody really expected, but he wasn't even good as a nickel back. He also brought with him his clique and divided the locker room. It is part of what got the team falling apart in the Billick years and caused him to lose the locker room. You've got to be able to remove the sentiment over the legend of what Sanders was and look at the reality of what he was when he was a Raven.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

On 7/22/2016 at 11:17 PM, flynismo said:

I absolutely hated the Torrey pick, I was steaming mad when we took him. He went on to become one of my favorite Ravens ever, not because of his play, which was uneven at best, but because he is a wonderful human being,

But all in all, Torrey was a disappointment, which is why we wouldn't even pay him #2 money to stay.

I personally think Torrey's value was greater than his stats. While, yes, he was inconsistent and as a target underwhelmed at times... the fear he put into DBs with his speed - i mean how many times did very good corners just have to bail and grab him to prevent a TD? - was a weapon in and of itself.

And that space he created just with the threat of him going deep made guys like Boldin, SSS, Pitta, Rice, Daniels, and the run game all that much better.

And thats why i really like the Wallace pick. Even if he cant be a great target, his speed alone should have a similar effect on spacing that honestly this offense needs to be at its most effective.

[Tiznut]

O

1 hour ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

Because I was actually around to watch the guy play. He took time away from other players that should have been getting the reps. He was nothing close to being his former self, which at his advanced age nobody really expected, but he wasn't even good as a nickel back. He also brought with him his clique and divided the locker room. It is part of what got the team falling apart in the Billick years and caused him to lose the locker room. You've got to be able to remove the sentiment over the legend of what Sanders was and look at the reality of what he was when he was a Raven.

Guess you're claiming that others who disagree with you didn't see his whole career.  He didn't take time away from guys who should have played. He was signed because we didn't have as much depth as you want to claim. 

 

So again a guy who was out for 4 yrs and signed for a small any only disappointed people who viewed him as prime time still 

Edited July 28, 2016 by Moderator 9
Removed insult

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

24 minutes ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

Because I was actually around to watch the guy play. He took time away from other players that should have been getting the reps. He was nothing close to being his former self, which at his advanced age nobody really expected, but he wasn't even good as a nickel back. He also brought with him his clique and divided the locker room. It is part of what got the team falling apart in the Billick years and caused him to lose the locker room. You've got to be able to remove the sentiment over the legend of what Sanders was and look at the reality of what he was when he was a Raven.

Who did he take time from that should have played ahead of him??

He started 2 games in 2004, getting snaps in only 9. In 2005 he played in all 16 but was only a starter for 4... and Ed Reed, Samari Rolle, McAlister, Demps, Chad Williams, and even Dale Carter all played more or just about as much as Sanders. The only guys who really played less were guys like BJ Ward (who still got snaps in 15 games), Norton and Ogelsby who i believe were rookies and never amounted to anything.

In 2004 Reed, McAlister, Demps, and Baxter started every game and played the majority of the snaps in base. Corey Fuller played more than Sanders, and Walls and Williams played less but still got a good amount of snaps, at least enough to showcase what they had and make a case that they deserved more..

 

So, which promising talents at the time did Sanders play ahead of or hold back? Are you suggesting the potential great career of Chad Williams was derailed bc of Sanders playing ahead of him (for the record his best season as a pro out of the 5 total he played was 2005 when Deion played the most as a Raven).

Or the undrafted BJ Ward who became highly sought after by the Las Vegas Locomotives after his 1 season with the Ravens, but couldve been All Pro if not for Neon hogging his spotlight?

 

Deion was basically our Dime back and sometimes nickel, but was in a rotation even then. Every young player who played less than him was pretty much out of the league within a year or two.

Edited July 28, 2016 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[EdTheMythicalOne]

23 minutes ago, Tiznut said:

O

Arrogant ignorant post. Guess you're claiming that others who disagree with you didn't see his whole career.  He didn't take time away from guys who should have played. He was signed because we didn't have as much depth as you want to claim. 

 

So again a guy who was out for 4 yrs and signed for a small any only disappointed people who viewed him as prime time still 

Well if you want to get snippy about it...you don't have to go slinging names. You can disagree with me if you like about something. Others can feel free to disagree with me all they want. I don't think Sanders was a great signing. The reason why he didn't play a lot is because he was still nursing that toe. He was awful in the locker room and no, I am not making that up, you simply have to read "Next man up" to hear all about that.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

18 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Who did he take time from that should have played ahead of him??

He started 2 games in 2004, getting snaps in only 9. In 2005 he played in all 16 but was only a starter for 4... and Ed Reed, Samari Rolle, McAlister, Demps, Chad Williams, and even Dale Carter all played more or just about as much as Sanders. The only guys who really played less were guys like BJ Ward (who still got snaps in 15 games), Norton and Ogelsby who i believe were rookies and never amounted to anything.

In 2004 Reed, McAlister, Demps, and Baxter started every game and played the majority of the snaps in base. Corey Fuller played more than Sanders, and Walls and Williams played less but still got a good amount of snaps, at least enough to showcase what they had and make a case that they deserved more..

 

So, which promising talents at the time did Sanders play ahead of or hold back? Are you suggesting the potential great career of Chad Williams was derailed bc of Sanders playing ahead of him (for the record his best season as a pro out of the 5 total he played was 2005 when Deion played the most as a Raven).

Or the undrafted BJ Ward who became highly sought after by the Las Vegas Locomotives after his 1 season with the Ravens, but couldve been All Pro if not for Neon hogging his spotlight?

 

Deion was basically our Dime back and sometimes nickel, but was in a rotation even then. Every young player who played less than him was pretty much out of the league within a year or two.

Chad's best season was actually 2004 with his 3 INTs returned for over 150 yards. They may have played the same amount of games in 2005, but Deion saw more snaps. And again, I raised another point with Deion about how he divided the locker room. It was a huge issue. There was the Ray Lewis clique, the Deion clique, and then there was everyone else. It destroyed the chemistry of the team and cost Billick his job.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

39 minutes ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

Chad's best season was actually 2004 with his 3 INTs returned for over 150 yards. They may have played the same amount of games in 2005, but Deion saw more snaps. And again, I raised another point with Deion about how he divided the locker room. It was a huge issue. There was the Ray Lewis clique, the Deion clique, and then there was everyone else. It destroyed the chemistry of the team and cost Billick his job.

So INT high means best season? He had just as many his rookie season.

He played more, had more tackles, allowed less yards/snap, and his lowest completion percentage when targeted in 2005. In almost every conceivable way i could find he was better in 2005 other than INT's and INT return yards which really have nothing to do with high level play and more to do with being in the right place at the right time, or getting the opportunity and taking advantage of it.

What if in 2005 he put himself in position to make 8 INT's but dropped 7 of them? While it stinks to drop those 7, he obviously played far better coverage.

Dont give me more interceptions = better play.... thats weak at best, and second has nothing to do with promoting the idea that Sanders held anyone back.

 

The team went 9-7 in 2004 and then 13-3 in 2006 the season after he left. The locker room wasnt destroyed. They didnt have a QB or any weapons on offense. As soon as they got a decent QB in 2006 they had arguably their best team ever. 

Billick coached 3 more years after Sanders, including that 13-3 season. His inability to find or develop a QB and establish an offense lost him his job - bc thats what he was supposedly hired to do.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

3 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

So INT high means best season? He had just as many his rookie season.

He played more, had more tackles, allowed less yards/snap, and his lowest completion percentage when targeted in 2005. In almost every conceivable way i could find he was better in 2005 other than INT's and INT return yards which really have nothing to do with high level play and more to do with being in the right place at the right time, or getting the opportunity and taking advantage of it.

What if in 2005 he put himself in position to make 8 INT's but dropped 7 of them? While it stinks to drop those 7, he obviously played far better coverage.

Dont give me more interceptions = better play.... thats weak at best, and second has nothing to do with promoting the idea that Sanders held anyone back.

 

The team went 9-7 in 2004 and then 13-3 in 2006 the season after he left. The locker room wasnt destroyed. They didnt have a QB or any weapons on offense. As soon as they got a decent QB in 2006 they had arguably their best team ever. 

Billick coached 3 more years after Sanders, including that 13-3 season. His inability to find or develop a QB and establish an offense lost him his job - bc thats what he was supposedly hired to do.

Generally speaking, more is better. But if you don't like interception data how about that he had more sacks in 2004 and more passes defended in 2004. Seems like he did more of everything prior to 2005 when what happened? Deion got more snaps.

What if...I don't deal with what if's, I deal with what actually happened. It is clear that Chad was a better player before Deion got here and started taking snaps away from him.

Right, Billick was ultimately fired for not producing. That's usually what does the trick. That could just be from poor talent evaluation, poor coaching, or your players deciding they don't have to listen to you anymore and they do their own thing. The inmates started to run the asylum and that all started when Deion came to town. You don't have to take my word for it. You can read about it if you like. If you haven't read "Next Man Up," then I suggest you do so before you decide to bash me on my opinion of how disruptive Deion was in the locker room.