Most disappointing Ravens players

[RavensFan34950]

Elvis Grbac. Dude single handily kept us from repeating in 2001. How do you come off a 4000 yard season with KC, go to a team with a legendary defense and supposed offensive genius at headcoach and play so dreadful. People say Kyle Boller was the worst QB we ever had and I just laugh. Elvis Grbac was by far the worst to Throw for the Ravens.

Edited July 21, 2016 by RavensFan34950
Mistake

[rmcjacket23]

10 minutes ago, RavensFan34950 said:

Elvis Grbac. Dude single handily kept us from repeating in 2001. How do you come off a 4000 yard season with KC, go to a team with a legendary defense and supposed offensive genius at headcoach and play so dreadful. People say Kyle Boller was the worst QB we ever had and I just laugh. Elvis Grbac was by far the worst to Throw for the Ravens.

You could argue both sides. Boller was a quality draft pick who was injured frequently and rarely played well when he did play, and Grbac only played one season and was garbage as a quality FA signing.

I will say that, if you were to compare them statistically, they're pretty much the same. In Boller's only full season, 2004, he was actually less productive from a YPG, completion percentage, and TD passes than Grbac was in 2001, and Grbac played two less games.

Biggest knock on Grbac was turnovers. Just way too many, though he did have a history of doing that before he got here.

[RavensFan34950]

44 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

You could argue both sides. Boller was a quality draft pick who was injured frequently and rarely played well when he did play, and Grbac only played one season and was garbage as a quality FA signing.

I will say that, if you were to compare them statistically, they're pretty much the same. In Boller's only full season, 2004, he was actually less productive from a YPG, completion percentage, and TD passes than Grbac was in 2001, and Grbac played two less games.

Biggest knock on Grbac was turnovers. Just way too many, though he did have a history of doing that before he got here.

I have to disagree with you. Grbac was a veteran who got better every year he was in the league until he came to baltimore. There was no excuse for him to regress as much as he did. Kyle Boller at least showed flashes at times when he was here. Grbac showed absolutely nothing. 

[rmcjacket23]

7 minutes ago, RavensFan34950 said:

I have to disagree with you. Grbac was a veteran who got better every year he was in the league until he came to baltimore. There was no excuse for him to regress as much as he did. Kyle Boller at least showed flashes at times when he was here. Grbac showed absolutely nothing. 

Really only applies to 99 and 2000. He did nothing in 3 years in SF, and he was highly unproductive in his first two years in KC after starting 16 games.

The reality was that the "fit" wasn't really there based on what we wanted to do both offensively and as a team. We brought in a QB who had a track record of throwing a lot of INTs and poor pocket awareness, which is about the only thing we couldn't have on offense given our roster assembly.

We also gave Grbac far less of a chance than Boller got, considering Grbac played all of 14 games with the team. Imagine if we only gave Joe Flacco 14 games with the team to show himself? He probably wouldn't be here anymore.

Granted, that's comparing a rookie to a veteran.

[RavensFan34950]

8 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Really only applies to 99 and 2000. He did nothing in 3 years in SF, and he was highly unproductive in his first two years in KC after starting 16 games.

The reality was that the "fit" wasn't really there based on what we wanted to do both offensively and as a team. We brought in a QB who had a track record of throwing a lot of INTs and poor pocket awareness, which is about the only thing we couldn't have on offense given our roster assembly.

We also gave Grbac far less of a chance than Boller got, considering Grbac played all of 14 games with the team. Imagine if we only gave Joe Flacco 14 games with the team to show himself? He probably wouldn't be here anymore.

Granted, that's comparing a rookie to a veteran.

But Flacco as a rookie never played as poorly as Grbac did in 2001. I would take Flacco's rookie season over Grbac's 1 season with us every time. The difference was Flacco's ceiling was sooooo much higher than Grbac's ceiling at the time. Grbac never showed any potential of getting better. Flacco did. The ravens signed him thinking he was an upgrade at QB from Dilfer. They were wrong on so many levels. Are you seriously saying Grbac deserved another chance after 2001? 

[ellicottraven]

Too many to count. I could actually but that would leave me too depressed.

[rmcjacket23]

8 minutes ago, RavensFan34950 said:

But Flacco as a rookie never played as poorly as Grbac did in 2001. I would take Flacco's rookie season over Grbac's 1 season with us every time. The difference was Flacco's ceiling was sooooo much higher than Grbac's ceiling at the time. Grbac never showed any potential of getting better. Flacco did. The ravens signed him thinking he was an upgrade at QB from Dilfer. They were wrong on so many levels. Are you seriously saying Grbac deserved another chance after 2001? 

If he were playing in 2016, absolutely. There's a dozen guys just like Grbac right now in the league, and a handful of them will be starting for teams this year AFTER showing performance like he did (both good and bad).

Statistically, Flacco wasn't that far off from Grbac in terms of actual production. Can make the ceiling/floor argument all day long, and as I said, the REAL difference is one was a rookie vs one was a veteran. But quite literally, if you look at their actual production, not much different.

I can guarantee this. If the Ravens made that same move with a QB in 2016, where they went into FA, signed a guy who had a good couple of years elsewhere, and then he played the way Grbac did in 2011, they wouldn't cut him after one season. They may bench him and look for a replacement, but they aren't cutting him.

It was a different time back then than it is now.

[RavensFan34950]

7 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

If he were playing in 2016, absolutely. There's a dozen guys just like Grbac right now in the league, and a handful of them will be starting for teams this year AFTER showing performance like he did (both good and bad).

Statistically, Flacco wasn't that far off from Grbac in terms of actual production. Can make the ceiling/floor argument all day long, and as I said, the REAL difference is one was a rookie vs one was a veteran. But quite literally, if you look at their actual production, not much different.

I can guarantee this. If the Ravens made that same move with a QB in 2016, where they went into FA, signed a guy who had a good couple of years elsewhere, and then he played the way Grbac did in 2011, they wouldn't cut him after one season. They may bench him and look for a replacement, but they aren't cutting him.

It was a different time back then than it is now.

We'll just agree to disagree I guess. We were in total rebuild mode after the 2001 season, and Grbac showed no reason as to why we should bring him back. And you're talking statistics but I'm going eye test as well as statistics. Flacco left a positive impression on me after his rookie season. Grbac not so much. But hey that's just my opinion.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

A couple for me...

Terrance Cody - thought he was gonna be a great run stuffer. Just clog up that middle, eat blocks, and let Ngata & Co go to work. He showed some potential at times, but ultimately was just a bunch of wasted space.

Ed Dickson - love his athleticism coming out and thought he would be a great receiving threat. Had a pretty good sophomore campaign with 55 catches and 550ish yards. Thought he was definitely trending upward.... but then Pitta came to life and Dickson started dropping everything. After that he was nothing more than an average blocking TE.

Lee Evans - do I really have to say anything? Thought we got a steal when we traded for him. Looked really good in the offseason, but then got injured and came back with just enough time to lose us a shot at the Super Bowl.

Billy Cundiff - Was really good early on in his time here. Played well enough to earn himself a shiny new contract and then the bottom fell out, culminating in the deflating 2nd act to Evans' drop. Never seen so many fans invested in, and passionately taking sides in a kicker battle during TC. Made Tucker a hero right away just by being the guy that replaced Cundiff.

Eugene Monroe - played well initially when we traded for him. Then, seems like he started to retired immediately after handing him a fat contract.

Chris Chester - pretty high pick that was given ample opportunity to establish himself. Flashed some ability, but was mainly awful during his time here. Whats most disappointing is that hes actually played well now - just for Atlanta. Hate it when a player flames out here and then eventually plays well elsewhere.

Demetrius Williams - had a pretty good rookie year to where it looked like we found ourselves a solid target in the middle rounds. Then he steadily declined year after year, we didnt resign him once his rookie deal was up and then was out of the league after one year with the Browns.

Bobby Rainey - just kidding. Remember when so many people thought he should be our starter??? And then he had like that one breakout game, in his i believe his first game with TB and everyone was like "SEE, TOLD YA SO!" and then he was pretty much terrible from then on. "But hes a Ray Rice clone....." - yea minus the talent.

 

And thats a good start. If anymore pop up ill add them.

.

 

Edited July 21, 2016 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[rmcjacket23]

54 minutes ago, RavensFan34950 said:

We'll just agree to disagree I guess. We were in total rebuild mode after the 2001 season, and Grbac showed no reason as to why we should bring him back. And you're talking statistics but I'm going eye test as well as statistics. Flacco left a positive impression on me after his rookie season. Grbac not so much. But hey that's just my opinion.

Sure, and the rebuild mode has something to do with it. 

The positive impression most likely had more to do with Joe being a rookie, so you see pieces to grow on, vs Grbac being a veteran that you don't expect to make those mistakes.

As for the eye test, I'm definitely not an "eye test" guy, mostly because no pair of eyes see the same thing and I find a lot of people who use the eye test as an evaluation tool don't really know what they are looking at or what they should be looking at to begin with.

[Willbacker]

5 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

I'm surprised no one mentionned Stover

I believe you were thinking of Cundiff who showed great promise that we signed him to a 3 yr deal then pfffffttttt.

5 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

If we are legitimately talking about disappointment, then one would certainly have to take expectations into account. 

For me, that eliminates a lot of the late round or undrafted players. I saw a guy like Marlon Brown on this list... really? What were the expectations for him to begin with?

Even if you for some absurd reason projected his 7 TDs in 2014 into meaning he was going to be a future stud (which you should have known and pretty much now know that TDs aren't a good predictor of a WRs talent or production), how many receivers literally EVER catch 1 out of 7 passes for a TD consistently in their career? For me, him being "disappointing" is almost exclusively due to fans not understanding what makes a good WR.

For me, you've got to look at high draft picks or FA signings for this list. Grbac was a major disappointment, as was Boller. The WR list is a mile long.

The 2004 and 2005 Ravens pretty much entire draft classes were major disappointments, as was the 2nd round of the 2010 draft. 

Michael Oher probably ranks pretty high on this list. He was viewed as the replacement for Ogden by many. Might have been because expectations were too high.

I believe the op was looking for players that showed potential at the beginning of their Ravens careers but never panned out. Marlon would definitely fit this profile

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

If he were playing in 2016, absolutely. There's a dozen guys just like Grbac right now in the league, and a handful of them will be starting for teams this year AFTER showing performance like he did (both good and bad).

Statistically, Flacco wasn't that far off from Grbac in terms of actual production. Can make the ceiling/floor argument all day long, and as I said, the REAL difference is one was a rookie vs one was a veteran. But quite literally, if you look at their actual production, not much different.

I can guarantee this. If the Ravens made that same move with a QB in 2016, where they went into FA, signed a guy who had a good couple of years elsewhere, and then he played the way Grbac did in 2011, they wouldn't cut him after one season. They may bench him and look for a replacement, but they aren't cutting him.

It was a different time back then than it is now.

I may be wrong but I believe it was Grbac who called it quits. Had a severe case of pansynitis.

[rmcjacket23]

22 minutes ago, Willbacker said:

I believe you were thinking of Cundiff who showed great promise that we signed him to a 3 yr deal then pfffffttttt.

I believe the op was looking for players that showed potential at the beginning of their Ravens careers but never panned out. Marlon would definitely fit this profile

I may be wrong but I believe it was Grbac who called it quits. Had a severe case of pansynitis.

All relative to whether or not you think they showed "potential". I personally never some much potential in any of the three guys he listed (Brown, Doss or Asa). 

Preseason hype doesn't do much for me, and if it did, Omar Brown would be at the top of this list because Ed Reed endorsed him.

Disappointment has to come from a failure to meet expectations in my book. A lot of these guys didn't have much expectation to begin with.

[usmccharles]

22 hours ago, Danny D said:

Upshaw

Kindle

Perriman, hopeful here

A. Brown

Max Williams, carl davis, tim Jernigan, terrance brooks.

We've had a boatload of bad picks lately.  Now some at the bottom of this list could improve, especially perriman, but they are longish shots after their established play.

 

One year in and your already giving up on him?  Not too many tight ends come in and excel, I like Crocket more but I think you should give him more than 14 games to decide if hes a disappointment/bad pick.  Seems way premature. 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

22 hours ago, Danny D said:

Funny......on those same tapes I was absolutely convinced he was going to be a high risk selection. Never believed he'd be our choice.  What I saw was a safety with absolutely no ball skills. Balls that were "redirected" his way almost invariably went "Clank", "Clank", "Clank" as they ricocheted off his hands.  He appeared eager to pop receivers and there was a fair amount of tape showing him lining up receivers for a big hit.  But they were crisis plays where the Gator Defense had flushed the quarterback or forced him into an off balance lame duck pass.  Elam was good at getting in on a play that the rest of his defense had orchestrated, but those tapes did not show a nose for the ball or making a good closely contested play a la Ed Reed.  I don't know for sure who got hoodwinkled on that film, but whoever it was had no business evaluating a Safety. (By the way, if you believe him, Newsome said Elam was "At the very top of his board".)  Elam is listed at 5ft 10in. I don't believe it. He's got arms like a T-Rex, (virtually no arms at all), now they are big arms.  Big arms like a turtle has. But if he can scouch himself up to 5ft9inches and change on a tape measure, he plays much smaller.

Gotta be careful in drafting a secondary player with a big league front seven in front of him. That situation can make a secondary player look very good.  You also gotta be careful in drafting a lineman from a big league school that has played the vast majority of its games against the little sisters of the poor.

Elam

Upshaw

Kindle

Perriman, hopeful here

A. Brown

Max Williams, carl davis, tim Jernigan, terrance brooks.

We've had a boatload of bad picks lately.  Now some at the bottom of this list could improve, especially perriman, but they are longish shots after their established play.

 

1. We will give you Elam in Brown. But terrible draft class. I can't find a safety after Elam I'd even take. Their on equal levels of suck and Alonso had one good season and that's it. And possibly Brooks. But that's what, 3? Not enough to prove your claim that Ozzie should be fired. Sorry. 

2. Kindle? You're reaching. No one could've seen that coming. Let's blame Ozzie for something unpredictable.

3. Really? Upshaw was drafted with one sole purpose. To replace JJ. He did a good job there. I will give you that he should've gone later but we needed an OLB, I can't find one after Upshaw that did as good of a job. Not a great player, but a very good run defender. 

4.Ive already disproved you on Jernigan in the past. A 3-4 DE who is a very good run defender and gets 4 sacks  in both years is not a bad player nor draft pick. Not to mention he's only got room to grow. 

5. Davis had a good debut but then fell off. But again, he's got a higher ceiling than you give him credit for. The fact that he's flashed his abilities shows this. 

6. Maxx? The guy who not only has gotten better with every game, but had amazing hands coming out of the draft, good route running, and good athletic ability. A guy who has a legit pro bowl potential. How in the hell was he a bad draft pick? Or is it you just reaching again? Oh wait. It probably is.

 

As to stay on topic

Elam, Brown, Cody, and Dickson. As of recent years. Only one out of all of these that truly hurts is Elam. Cody, Dickson, and Brown we found much better replacements for. So I'm not too mad. Ozzie isn't perfect, but this notion that you're preaching is utter crap. 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

11 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

 

2. Kindle? You're reaching. No one could've seen that coming. Let's blame Ozzie for something unpredictable.

 

Having given passes for players that couldn't take the field, that has changed.  All that matters is the Playoff Building players that prove themselves. If a G.M. drafted a player he owns him.  There were many reasons Kindle was available to us and Newsomes late career over reactions to past failures is one reason we drafted Stanley.  But Newsome owns all of his decisions.  Not gonna get into the "DeCosta Code" players.....just be aware a DeCosta Code player Is a player that didn't get All Pro or Pro Bowl recognition, didn't elevate your team and was a player you didn't resign.............but is a player the Front Office wants credit for if he is signed as a Free Agent by a needy team.  We've been turning out DeCosta Code players for about 5 years now.

 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

11 minutes ago, Danny D said:

 

So by your logic Rob Gronkowski was also a terrible pick seeing as he fell to the second round as well. Despite him being idk, maybe one of the five best players in the NFL. So CJ who's both a pro bowler and an all pro(second team all pro in his rookie year). Or Brandon Williams who's one of the best at his position in the league? Or Wagner who came on strong again at the end of the year, or Jerngan who's been pretty good since coming here.

 

Give me a break. Just because they don't make all pros or pro bowls doesn't mean they're not good players. But whatever. 

[usmccharles]

21 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

So by your logic Rob Gronkowski was also a terrible pick seeing as he fell to the second round as well. Despite him being idk, maybe one of the five best players in the NFL. So CJ who's both a pro bowler and an all pro(second team all pro in his rookie year). Or Brandon Williams who's one of the best at his position in the league? Or Wagner who came on strong again at the end of the year, or Jerngan who's been pretty good since coming here.

 

Give me a break. Just because they don't make all pros or pro bowls doesn't mean they're not good players. But whatever. 

Dude, clearly if they aren't alpha males and HoFers it was a waste of a pick.  You only win with pro-bowlers

[Wisdom]

For me, just to name a few.....Flacco, Jared Gaither, Arthur Brown, and Michael Campanaro,

[JoeyFlex5]

11 minutes ago, Wisdom said:

.....Flacco

Lol.

[52liveforever]

15 minutes ago, Wisdom said:

For me, just to name a few.....Flacco, Jared Gaither, Arthur Brown, and Michael Campanaro,

Jared Gaither? He was pretty solid in 2008  and then got an injury bug. He only cost us a 5th so I don't know if I would call that a disappointment. I think him being so enormous contributed to his body not holding up for very long. 

[redrum52]

58 minutes ago, 52liveforever said:

Jared Gaither? He was pretty solid in 2008  and then got an injury bug. He only cost us a 5th so I don't know if I would call that a disappointment. I think him being so enormous contributed to his body not holding up for very long. 

Wasn't it back issues that basically ended his career?  Tought for big guys to deal with that.

 

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Lol.

I know Giants fans who still hate Eli.

[JoeyFlex5]

23 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

Wasn't it back issues that basically ended his career?  Tought for big guys to deal with that.

 

I know Giants fans who still hate Eli.

He was also constantly out of shape, always had been. Its part of why he went so late, he was lazy and way overweight and wanted no parts of the work required to get in playing shape. 

 

You will always get injuries from those types.

[redrum52]

13 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

I'm surprised no one mentionned Stover

Stover, Lewis and Heap were at points our only source of offense.  Then came Ed Reed...  Thinking back, now I get the Flacco love fest.

[purplepittabread88]

8 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

All relative to whether or not you think they showed "potential". I personally never some much potential in any of the three guys he listed (Brown, Doss or Asa). 

Preseason hype doesn't do much for me, and if it did, Omar Brown would be at the top of this list because Ed Reed endorsed him.

Disappointment has to come from a failure to meet expectations in my book. A lot of these guys didn't have much expectation to begin with.

I get the preseason not meaning much but at the same time I always keep an eye on the guys who constantly make plays, wether it's practice preseason or trash time. Interesting take on Asa however, not even as a special teams ace did you not see him shine? I thought with his blocking and talking skills he could be a solid player (similar to Brendon Ayanjebadjeo (?) ) Although Marlon was force fed the ball the ball getting 7 touchdowns as an underrated rookie free agent, yes please. As for Tandon, he always showed a tough streak and ability to catch long balls. I checked and their was a span in 2013 where over 5 games, he averaged three catches for 53 yards, and had 5 plays of over 20 yards, including a 40 yard and a 60 yard. After that he fell off completely for the rest of his career. For me I could care less about a players size or measurements or speed etc, if they produce I approve. 

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Going back even further...

Among our first round draft picks, Travis Taylor, while not a complete bust still failed to live up to his #10 overall status.

Patrick Johnson, a 2nd round WR, was even less productive.

Jay Graham in the 3rd round was probably our biggest bust at RB.

And finally 3rd rounder Chris Redman got hyped as our future starting QB.

If he'd panned out, even as just an average starter, we probably wouldn't have drafted Boller.

 

 

 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

19 hours ago, Danny D said:

 

Decosta's stat was about $ spent in FA on Ravens draft picks. More money has been spent on Ravens draft picks in FA by other teams than any other team in the league.

If teams are spending lots of money of players we draft, that partially explains them not getting a second contract here bc we wont overpay... and if other teams are willing to spend a lot of money on players we got with a draft pick - well that means they disagree with your assertions and believe we drafted a very good player.

NFL GMs disagree with you, most fans here disagree with you, actually looking at the NFL as an entirety and evaluating the picks of each team tends to disagree with you.... but hey, youre probably right.

 

Oh, i always ask this of people and never get a response. If Ozzie has been so bad at drafting recently... starting with '08 list me the teams that have drafted better than Ozzie consistently. I want the team, the GM(s), the years with the picks and draft position. Show me a team that has regularly drafted better players. Find me these teams that for 8 years have been hitting on Pro Bowlers and All Pros ever year, or even getting starters every year.

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Decosta's stat was about $ spent in FA on Ravens draft picks. More money has been spent on Ravens draft picks in FA by other teams than any other team in the league.

If teams are spending lots of money of players we draft, that partially explains them not getting a second contract here bc we wont overpay... and if other teams are willing to spend a lot of money on players we got with a draft pick - well that means they disagree with your assertions and believe we drafted a very good player.

NFL GMs disagree with you, most fans here disagree with you, actually looking at the NFL as an entirety and evaluating the picks of each team tends to disagree with you.... but hey, youre probably right.

 

Oh, i always ask this of people and never get a response. If Ozzie has been so bad at drafting recently... starting with '08 list me the teams that have drafted better than Ozzie consistently. I want the team, the GM(s), the years with the picks and draft position. Show me a team that has regularly drafted better players. Find me these teams that for 8 years have been hitting on Pro Bowlers and All Pros ever year, or even getting starters every year.

Not that the Ravens are bad at drafting recently (which they aren't, I just wouldn't say they've been as good as previously), but the Packers are sort of the gold standard for successful drafts recently from what I've seen.

They get 2-3 pretty good starters almost annually in the draft, and they are really, really good on days 2-3. 

Most notable day 2/3 picks since 08:

Jordy Nelson, Josh Sitton, TJ Lang, Morgan Burnett, James Starks, Randall Cobb, Casey Hayward, Mike Daniels, Eddie Lacy, David Bakhtiari, Micah Hyde, and a handful of others.

And that's including some of their quality 1st round picks.

 

[Tank 92]

On July 21, 2016 at 3:47 PM, Willbacker said:

 

 

I may be wrong but I believe it was Grbac who called it quits. Had a severe case of pansynitis.

yeah, I think Grbac actually called it quits due to that disease right after he got here. Watching him just lay down(brady like) when pressured was infuriating. LMAO at comparing his one year performance to Flacco's rookie season. Just shows you how stats can lie.

[RavensFan34950]

10 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

yeah, I think Grbac actually called it quits due to that disease right after he got here. Watching him just lay down(brady like) when pressured was infuriating. LMAO at comparing his one year performance to Flacco's rookie season. Just shows you how stats can lie.

Lol thank you.

[rmcjacket23]

9 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

yeah, I think Grbac actually called it quits due to that disease right after he got here. Watching him just lay down(brady like) when pressured was infuriating. LMAO at comparing his one year performance to Flacco's rookie season. Just shows you how stats can lie.

Actually, he retires a few days AFTER the Ravens cut him, and he was already in negotiations to be a backup in Denver when he decided to retire.

http://a.espncdn.com/nfl/news/2002/0301/1343493.html

Basically, Ravens had to shed a ton from the salary cap after 2001 failed attempt to repeat, and they wanted Grbac to take a substantial paycut. They couldn't agree to terms, so the Ravens cut him.