Campanaro vs Reynolds

[757RavensFan]

LFW posted an article that addressed should the Ravens keep Camp or Reynolds? 

Barring major injuries, there's no way they keep both on the 53 man roster.  

The author gives compelling arguments for keeping one over the other, but he sides with Reynolds b/c of Camp's injury history.  

 

Side note: I had no idea that Camp never completed a full college season as well b/c of injuries.  

 

 

Edited July 12, 2016 by 757RavensFan

[rmw10]

I think it almost has to be Reynolds unless (1) he sucks or (2) Campanaro actually puts together a healthy camp and performs well.

[January J]

Gonna be  one of the most intriguing battles to watch. I would love for them both to make it but I just don't think the numbers will work and they are essentially the same player. Also see no way they cut Reynolds or risk putting him on the PS. Not after all he can do and getting approval from the navy etc. It will either be both (which I doubt) or just Reynolds. Sucks but it is what it is. If camp goes elsewhere andf turns into edelman while stayin healthy that will truly make me sick.

[757RavensFan]

Another reason Reynolds may have an edge, God forbid that something happens to Flacco and Mallet in the same game, he could step in at QB. 

Edited July 12, 2016 by 757RavensFan

[January J]

52 minutes ago, 757RavensFan said:

One other reason Reynolds may have an edge, God forbid that something happens to Flacco and Mallet in the same game, he could step in at QB. 

Hey it could happen. Sure its not very likely but it is nice to have a plan C knowing our luck. Better to throw Reynolds under center opposed to Sam Koch lol

[Deflated Football]

Reynolds should get the spot. I'm tired of waiting on potential. Camp is injured too often. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

This is it for Camp - make or break time. It says something that a converted QB has a slight edge as the favorite to make the roster over him. And, with all the glowing reports Reynolds has been getting its going to be even harder for him.

But, gut tells me Camp makes it some how. Logic says otherwise, but hes got to have a stint of health, and Harbs comments clearly indicate that he loves the guy and wants him to make it. 

It seems impossible that we hang on to all the guys we want to at WR, but quite a few things will happen that change the landscape between now and roster cuts. I think if Camp gets healthy and performs well, Reynolds may pull a hammy or bruise a knee or something and end up on IR.

Edited July 12, 2016 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[rmw10]

2 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

This is it for Camp - make or break time. It says something that a converted QB has a slight edge as the favorite to make the roster over him. And, with all the glowing reports Reynolds has been getting its going to be even harder for him.

But, gut tells me Camp makes it some how. Logic says otherwise, but hes got to have a stint of health, and Harbs comments clearly indicate that he loves the guy and wants him to make it. 

It seems impossible that we hang on to all the guys we want to at WR, but quite a few things will happen that change the landscape between now and roster cuts. I think if Camp gets healthy and performs well, Reynolds may pull a hammy or bruise a knee or something and end up on IR.

In Reynolds' case, with him converting to WR and learning the position from scratch, he's going to need plenty of practice to develop.  For that reason, I don't think he's a candidate for the phantom IR.  If he does got to phantom IR, then that is just gross mismanagement of Reynolds' development.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

4 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

In Reynolds' case, with him converting to WR and learning the position from scratch, he's going to need plenty of practice to develop.  For that reason, I don't think he's a candidate for the phantom IR.  If he does got to phantom IR, then that is just gross mismanagement of Reynolds' development.

He can develop route running, hands catching, footwork, etc... on his own with a trainer.

I would think, the WR position more than most, especially in terms of a conversion, is one that can be learned and developed outside of a team practice setting better than most. I dont think it would be mismanagement at all.

In fact i think the opposite is true. If he hasnt yet learned the nuances of the position well enough to perform, then wasting a roster spot on him would be a huge error when he could just as well spend a year perfecting the craft since a WR is mostly working on an island anyways. 

[rmw10]

4 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

He can develop route running, hands catching, footwork, etc... on his own with a trainer.

I would think, the WR position more than most, especially in terms of a conversion, is one that can be learned and developed outside of a team practice setting better than most. I dont think it would be mismanagement at all.

In fact i think the opposite is true. If he hasnt yet learned the nuances of the position well enough to perform, then wasting a roster spot on him would be a huge error when he could just as well spend a year perfecting the craft since a WR is mostly working on an island anyways. 

I disagree with that premise entirely.  You can work out with a trainer as much as you want, but at the end of the day, it comes down to repetitions with your team and developing chemistry and timing.  Working with an outside trainer certainly doesn't hurt, but I do not for one second believe it would be hugely beneficial to this transition.

[rossihunter2]

43 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I disagree with that premise entirely.  You can work out with a trainer as much as you want, but at the end of the day, it comes down to repetitions with your team and developing chemistry and timing.  Working with an outside trainer certainly doesn't hurt, but I do not for one second believe it would be hugely beneficial to this transition.

he may be able to work out timings etc. but what's the point - he'd be a gameday inactive most likely or the returner - and then what use is that chemistry...

i agree that if he's beaten out by camp etc. then the best place for keenan is on phantom ir

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, rossihunter2 said:

he may be able to work out timings etc. but what's the point - he'd be a gameday inactive most likely or the returner - and then what use is that chemistry...

i agree that if he's beaten out by camp etc. then the best place for keenan is on phantom ir

Development for the future.  He can't practice if he's on IR.  It's not like Reynolds would be the first developmental, weekly inactive guy on the roster, either.

[rossihunter2]

Just now, rmw10 said:

Development for the future.  He can't practice if he's on IR.  It's not like Reynolds would be the first developmental, weekly inactive guy on the roster, either.

as was said above though, the actual route running skills and the art of being a receiver can be learned outside of the 53 - there's no point him being a developmental guy if he's inactive if a lot of his weekly work is going to be learning a position

timing is important but he needs to get the position down first

a lot of his timing in practices isn't going to be that useful anyway as he'd mostly be running not with the 1s so he'd be receiving passes from mallet or a ps qb

[rmw10]

5 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

as was said above though, the actual route running skills and the art of being a receiver can be learned outside of the 53 - there's no point him being a developmental guy if he's inactive if a lot of his weekly work is going to be learning a position

timing is important but he needs to get the position down first

a lot of his timing in practices isn't going to be that useful anyway as he'd mostly be running not with the 1s so he'd be receiving passes from mallet or a ps qb

Again, I wholeheartedly disagree with that premise.  I'm not saying a private trainer can hurt, but nothing is going to benefit his development more than being able to practice and participate with the team.  Being around the team helps him develop in the offense and in the scheme.

[757RavensFan]

7 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

as was said above though, the actual route running skills and the art of being a receiver can be learned outside of the 53 - there's no point him being a developmental guy if he's inactive if a lot of his weekly work is going to be learning a position

timing is important but he needs to get the position down first

a lot of his timing in practices isn't going to be that useful anyway as he'd mostly be running not with the 1s so he'd be receiving passes from mallet or a ps qb

I think he's going to get a lot of practice w/ the 1s.  I see him as one of those special talents that you work into your system. 

[rossihunter2]

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

Again, I wholeheartedly disagree with that premise.  I'm not saying a private trainer can hurt, but nothing is going to benefit his development more than being able to practice and participate with the team.  Being around the team helps him develop in the offense and in the scheme.

of course it does, but would i rather have camp take up that spot (someone who we know is a contributor and potential game breaker when healthy) of course i would, especially if reynolds isn't as likely to be used as much

 

this of course is in the hypothetical situation that camp (or another wideout like butler or daniel brown or chris mathews) does well enough that reynolds could end  up on phantom ir which in my eyes is the ideal scenario - because it means that someone won a camp battle against the odds rather than being gifted it

[rmw10]

6 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

of course it does, but would i rather have camp take up that spot (someone who we know is a contributor and potential game breaker when healthy) of course i would, especially if reynolds isn't as likely to be used as much

 

this of course is in the hypothetical situation that camp (or another wideout like butler or daniel brown or chris mathews) does well enough that reynolds could end  up on phantom ir which in my eyes is the ideal scenario - because it means that someone won a camp battle against the odds rather than being gifted it

Admittedly, you are talking to someone who is staunchly opposed to the whole phantom IR thing.  I've always been of the opinion that you're either good enough for the 53 or not.  I've never been one to believe (and history indicates this as well) that a year off of the field is going to somehow magically make you good enough the next year to crack the roster.

[rossihunter2]

2 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Admittedly, you are talking to someone who is staunchly opposed to the whole phantom IR thing.  I've always been of the opinion that you're either good enough for the 53 or not.  I've never been one to believe (and history indicates this as well) that a year off of the field is going to somehow magically make you good enough the next year to crack the roster.

i agree that i'd rather talent just come through - but it has worked in small ways at least in the past year if you look at jeremy butler for instance - i think it comes down to the fact that so many players improve drastically just from having longer in a system - ir candidates can still do the mental stuff and watch tape and be in the room - they just can't train

if the other option is letting them go to another team and star there, i'd much rather them have a year off the field in the room and the system

[rmw10]

2 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

i agree that i'd rather talent just come through - but it has worked in small ways at least in the past year if you look at jeremy butler for instance - i think it comes down to the fact that so many players improve drastically just from having longer in a system - ir candidates can still do the mental stuff and watch tape and be in the room - they just can't train

if the other option is letting them go to another team and star there, i'd much rather them have a year off the field in the room and the system

Butler is probably the most successful, and I think that says a lot about the system in general.

To address the latter point, if you think it's a guy that could be good down the line, I'm all for keeping him and letting him develop on the 53.  There are duds that are weekly inactive/awful on the 53 every single year.  If there's going to be a guy like that, it might as well be someone with potential.

[rossihunter2]

2 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Butler is probably the most successful, and I think that says a lot about the system in general.

To address the latter point, if you think it's a guy that could be good down the line, I'm all for keeping him and letting him develop on the 53.  There are duds that are weekly inactive/awful on the 53 every single year.  If there's going to be a guy like that, it might as well be someone with potential.

that's fair, but I think that this is a team that has quite a deep roster with usable backend of the roster types who are useful on special teams or as good depth - i don't think this will be a year for example where someone like terrance magee, who has absolutely no chance of doing anything significant, makes it

normally i'd be with you on phantom ir but i think that this year there are too many intriguing prospects + i always get scared (most of the time irrationally) that other teams will poach our late round projects off waivers or off the practice squad because we normally draft well

[rossihunter2]

i guess though what this all really comes down to is my intense hope that campanaro can earn himself one last chance because i love watching him play when he's healthy

[Tiznut]

Wasn't camp hurt in minicamp or what not. Not saying it was severe but just a reliability stand point I don't think you can go with camp 

[RaineV1]

4 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

One other reason Reynolds may have an edge, God forbid that something happens to Flacco and Mallet in the same game, he could step in at QB. 

Considering the Ravens luck with injuries that is possible. Wouldn't be the first time we've brought out a third string QB.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

Admittedly, you are talking to someone who is staunchly opposed to the whole phantom IR thing.  I've always been of the opinion that you're either good enough for the 53 or not.  I've never been one to believe (and history indicates this as well) that a year off of the field is going to somehow magically make you good enough the next year to crack the roster.

I tend to agree... but this is a different situation. We're not talking a guy whos played the situation his entire life, or at least 3 years against the 2nd highest level competition to the NFL; this is a player who is playing the position for the first time ever.

IMO, all the timing, understanding scheme, rapport and big picture stuff is useless until he has the requisite skill set to play the position. If he cant run a route properly, what use is it for him to understand how his route in combination with another manipulates a defense to create an opening. Or, what use is the timing with Joe on a curl route if 5 months from now when hes picking up the footwork to properly accelerate/decelerate is going to completely change that timing... likewise if he hasnt yet learned to be press coverage off the line; once he does that totally will change timing.

We're talking basics that this kid has never learned. Terrell Pryor is supposedly turning heads at Browns OTAs; and the biggest thing was that he spent so much time last year and over the summer on his own learning the nuances of the position. Now he can play freely and attempt to understand the offense, his role within it on each play, and work on getting open/timing. Until Reynolds has those very basic things down, to me the rest is kind of jumping the gun or even working backwards because

A) that work won't be efficient bc hes definitely not going to be comfortable or have the tools to properly get open, beat coverage, and will have to spend so much of his attention on little basic things that itll be very hard to grasp the bigger picture

B  ) the timing of everything will change once he has the basic tools to run routes efficiently with as few steps as possible and knows how to properly change gears and get in/out of breaks.

and C) i dont want to break his confidence. No sense in sending a pitcher to the majors if all he's got a fast ball with no movement. Sure he might be able to develop a change up or breaking ball, but chances are itll take much much longer in that ultra competitive and results driven environment, and theres a good chance you destroy the pitchers confidence by letting him get hit all over the place. Same concept here - until youve given or taught the guy tools to beat NFL coverage, no sense in over-exposing it to him where he can be successful.

Take a year giving him the tools, and then worry about timing and rapport.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

24 minutes ago, Tiznut said:

Wasn't camp hurt in minicamp or what not. Not saying it was severe but just a reliability stand point I don't think you can go with camp 

Yea, but supposedly hes ready to go for TC. Lets hope it stays that way.

[jazz1988]

Reynolds have little experience  at wide receiver but the  does have enough talent to succeed at the position but I think a healthy Camp is the better player.

Edited July 12, 2016 by jazz1988

[757RavensFan]

35 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

Reynolds have little experience  at wide receiver bit he does have enough talent to succeed at the position but I think a healthy Camp is the better player.

Reynolds is what coaches like to call a "football player"!!  No matter where you play him, he can more than likely make an impact.

Edited July 12, 2016 by 757RavensFan

[RaineV1]

If Reynolds shows he can return punts then he probably beats Camp for a spot. I think the team would rather develop a raw receiver rather than keep crossing their fingers in hope that Camp can make it through a season.

[Tru11]

reynolds can play special teams , WR  and emergency QB and perhaps even emergency RB.

camp so far knows how to land on IR.

unless reynolds is terrible in every facet , he should make the roster.

 

 

[jazz1988]

18 hours ago, 757RavensFan said:

Reynolds is what coaches like to call a "football player"!!  No matter where you play him, he can more than likely make an impact.

I have no idea if he can make a impact at receiver right away .Until proven wrong Camp to me is the better receiver.Honestly the same thing Reynolds can do,Camp can do as well  but it's unclear who is the better returner.

Edited July 13, 2016 by jazz1988