$13M in cap space &Tucker's Contract Negotiations

[rmcjacket23]

11 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

You don't want Jernigan at NT in a 3-4.  His best asset is as a pass rusher.  A nose tackles job is to eat blockers and make life for guys like Jernigan and other pass rushers easier.

Correct. He's Arthur Jones basically.

[BmoreBird22]

10 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

As for jernigan, I just don't see him as a NFL NT, at least not a full time one. I think he's far too quick and agile and he is a bully with his strength but he isn't the stout "clog 2 lanes and keep 3 interior blockers on their heels" type of NT you look for in a 34. He's always struck me as more of a 3 down 43DT

I have said this many times before, but I view him as the ideal 3T in the Tampa 2

[Jacquouille]

11 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

You don't want Jernigan at NT in a 3-4.  His best asset is as a pass rusher.  A nose tackles job is to eat blockers and make life for guys like Jernigan and other pass rushers easier.

Just writing what his scouting report said. I won't argue with you, I do feel the same way, but wasn't interested in the NFL when he was drafted, so I can't judge what he looked like coming out of college.

 

 

 

 

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I'd disagree that he's only limited to 3-4 teams. I do think he has more value in a 3-4, but 4-3 defenses still use a nose/1T and Brandon can be ideal in that role.

He generates enough of a pocket push to not allow players to step up and his sheer strength and girth are more often than not going to draw a double team. 

That's going to be invaluable to a team that wants to a team that wants to free it's 3T up one on one instead of having to fight double teams. 

Plus, Harrison is probably even more one dimensional than Brandon just signed with a 4-3 team. 

I am in agreement, though, that he won't break the bank.

True, but that's also going to have to be a team that has established 4-3 DEs that can rush the passer well already, because I doubt any team is going to pay him as a pass rushing DT without actually seeing him do it (which up to this point he hasn't been).

I just don't see the market for him being that strong given what we've seen so far. He will get a good size contract from somebody, but some of these opinions I've seen of him being in the $12-15M range of contracts are absurd and baseless in my opinion.

[Jacquouille]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

I have said this many times before, but I view him as the ideal 3T in the Tampa 2

Mind to explain? I'm not very familiar with the Tampa 2. And wouldn't Henry be as good, if not better?

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

True, but that's also going to have to be a team that has established 4-3 DEs that can rush the passer well already, because I doubt any team is going to pay him as a pass rushing DT without actually seeing him do it (which up to this point he hasn't been).

I just don't see the market for him being that strong given what we've seen so far. He will get a good size contract from somebody, but some of these opinions I've seen of him being in the $12-15M range of contracts are absurd and baseless in my opinion.

I wouldn't pay $12-$15 for a 1T and I don't think any reasonable team would. 

I'm shocked even Harrison got what he did considering he is the epitome of one dimensional.

One thing is for certain, though. Fans defintiely overvalue their own.

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, Jacquouille said:

Mind to explain? I'm not very familiar with the Tampa 2. And wouldn't Henry be as good, if not better?

Tampa 2 just relies on players that might be viewed as undersized or too small, but are very fast and very quick.

By defensive tackle standards, Jernigan isn't huge, but he has above average agility and has insane potential to be a really great pass rusher if his effort were always there. He just seems to give up too often.

I don't know much about Henry, but everything I've read makes me excited because of people raving about his pass rush.

[JoeyFlex5]

6 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I have said this many times before, but I view him as the ideal 3T in the Tampa 2

I agree. I think Davis is ideal there as well, and suggs is an ideal DE and zds COULD be ideal there because he has all the physical ability you want to play both the run and pass.

[Jacquouille]

3 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Tampa 2 just relies on players that might be viewed as undersized or too small, but are very fast and very quick.

By defensive tackle standards, Jernigan isn't huge, but he has above average agility and has insane potential to be a really great pass rusher if his effort were always there. He just seems to give up too often.

I don't know much about Henry, but everything I've read makes me excited because of people raving about his pass rush.

Thank you very much for the explanation.

 

If you haven't seen Henry's tape, it's really stunning. I haven't watched a lot of DL tape ths year, but he certainly doesn't look like a 4th rounder. His first step is elite and he's insanely agile. Winchester pointed out how good he was at bending, which is true and impressive for a guy of his size and weight. 

[JoeyFlex5]

7 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

Mind to explain? I'm not very familiar with the Tampa 2. And wouldn't Henry be as good, if not better?

the philosophy is "top down, outside-in" in coverage, keep the play in front of you, you need fast breaking corners who tackle well, you need at least 2 rangy LBs because you depend on one of them to play heavy zone coverage and another needs to play sideline to sideline, and you need well a well rounded 4 man front, interior penetration and that rangy LB are keys here, take away the easy throw with the LB in the seam/slant/drag area, force an unwise throw elsewhere with penetration, and you don't wanna have to cheat up to play the run because it takes away from the whole philosophy of the defense, thus a 4 man front that can stop the run and rush well.

[BmoreBird22]

17 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

Thank you very much for the explanation.

 

If you haven't seen Henry's tape, it's really stunning. I haven't watched a lot of DL tape ths year, but he certainly doesn't look like a 4th rounder. His first step is elite and he's insanely agile. Winchester pointed out how good he was at bending, which is true and impressive for a guy of his size and weight. 

What exactly made him fall? Just looked him up on NFL.com and they love the athleticism and gave him a third rouns grade. Compared him to Star L, who I wanted in 2013.

[BmoreBird22]

21 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I agree. I think Davis is ideal there as well, and suggs is an ideal DE and zds COULD be ideal there because he has all the physical ability you want to play both the run and pass.

Hell, they even just picked up a pretty decent option at OLB in KC and Brown looks best suited for the 4-3. I wouldn't expect the 2002 Bucs here or anything, but I think if the linebacker depth were better, the Ravens could make it happen.

[Jacquouille]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

What exactly made him fall? Just looked him up on NFL.com and they love the athleticism and gave him a third rouns grade. Compared him to Star L, who I wanted in 2013.

First, in a loaded class, teams feel like they can get a very good DL later so they focus on other needs, making every player  at the position fall.

Second, Henry is a bit raw technically and his production is pretty pedestrian until his last year. He declared too early for the draft, had he stayed one more year, with better technique and a less loaded class, he would have probably been a second, borderline first rounder.

[JoeyFlex5]

18 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

What exactly made him fall? Just looked him up on NFL.com and they love the athleticism and gave him a third rouns grade. Compared him to Star L, who I wanted in 2013.

Character concerns I've heard. I've heard that over the course of an entire season scouts noticed he got down on himself and quit too often. High highs and low lows basically

[JoeyFlex5]

18 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Hell, they even just picked up a pretty decent option at OLB in KC and Brown looks best suited for the 4-3. I wouldn't expect the 2002 Bucs here or anything, but I think if the linebacker depth were better, the Ravens could make it happen.

I think KC could be an all pro in a 43. He is a stud linebacker in all aspects and can be a machine pass rusher/Blitzer as long as he's kept off the ball

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, JoeyFlex5 said:

I think KC could be an all pro in a 43. He is a stud linebacker in all aspects and can be a machine pass rusher/Blitzer as long as he's kept off the ball

This draft was pretty good at the top if you needed a 4-3 OLB. Spence, Jack, Smith, KC, Floyd 

[BmoreBird22]

17 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

First, in a loaded class, teams feel like they can get a very good DL later so they focus on other needs, making every player  at the position fall.

Second, Henry is a bit raw technically and his production is pretty pedestrian until his last year. He declared too early for the draft, had he stayed one more year, with better technique and a less loaded class, he would have probably been a second, borderline first rounder.

 

2 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Character concerns I've heard. I've heard that over the course of an entire season scouts noticed he got down on himself and quit too often. High highs and low lows basically

I'm really curious to see how he translates on the field becausd Clarence Brooks will still be helping and Joe Cullen is really respected, so I wanna see if all the early hype is warrented. Only. One. More. Week

[Jacquouille]

8 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I think KC could be an all pro in a 43. He is a stud linebacker in all aspects and can be a machine pass rusher/Blitzer as long as he's kept off the ball

 I don't know, I think we've been a bit overreacting about this. Watched some tape again, he'll need to get better at weaving through traffic to really be special. He's got all the time in the world to improve on that, and if he does he'll be a specimen, but until then he'll get caught by OG too often. It happened against Colorado State for example.

9 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

This draft was pretty good at the top if you needed a 4-3 OLB. Spence, Jack, Smith, KC, Floyd 

I don't like Spence and Floyd as 4-3 OLBs, but that's another story I guess.

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, Jacquouille said:

 I don't know, I think we've been a bit overreacting about this. Watched some tape again, he'll need to get better at weaving through traffic to really be special. He's got all the time in the world to improve on that, and if he does he'll be a specimen, but until then he'll get caught by OG too often. It happened against Colorado State for example.

I don't like Spence and Floyd as 4-3 OLBs, but that's another story I guess.

I think they fit better there where they don't have to take on a man head on. Basically a Von Miller or Vic Beasley role.

[JoeyFlex5]

20 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

 I don't know, I think we've been a bit overreacting about this. Watched some tape again, he'll need to get better at weaving through traffic to really be special. He's got all the time in the world to improve on that, and if he does he'll be a specimen, but until then he'll get caught by OG too often. It happened against Colorado State for example.

I don't like Spence and Floyd as 4-3 OLBs, but that's another story I guess.

He was also used very improper at Boise. He was an inline 3 point edge rusher far too often, and when he got to play off the ball they put him at slot corner often which he actually did very well at, but he didn't get to properly showcase himself as a traditional LB. In a more traditional LB role he won't be caught in the clutter too often unless he is assigned to a blitz. 

 

I'm just hoping we don't try to use him as a full time 34ILB or OLB and we use him as a space player and Blitzer.

[Jacquouille]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I'm just hoping we don't try to use him as a full time 34ILB or OLB and we use him as a space player and Blitzer.

If one thing is sure with Harbs, it's that players will move around as much as possible.

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

If one thing is sure with Harbs, it's that players will move around as much as possible.

Yup. It can be good and bad. Recently we have drafted very well for that philosophy. I think Elam was a guy that could be moved around and be disruptive, but he just has too many issues with fundamentals. Jernigan, davis, ZDS, KC, BK, and Henry all fit the mover mold. I think we are finally beginning to find the pieces to fit our philosophy. Hopefully we can have the full package before our window closes.

[Jacquouille]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Yup. It can be good and bad. Recently we have drafted very well for that philosophy. I think Elam was a guy that could be moved around and be disruptive, but he just has too many issues with fundamentals. Jernigan, davis, ZDS, KC, BK, and Henry all fit the mover mold. I think we are finally beginning to find the pieces to fit our philosophy. Hopefully we can have the full package before our window closes.

The thing I can't wait to see on the field is the formations we are going to use. I can't fathom how they are going to use so many players that can all play several position, it's fascinating how this defense, or at least this front seven, can be moved around. Hopefully it creates matchups.

[ravefan52]

Something to keep in mind with extending Brandon Williams, by the start of next season he will already be 28. That's very old for a player that's only going to be signing his 2nd contract.

[rmcjacket23]

7 hours ago, ravefan52 said:

Something to keep in mind with extending Brandon Williams, by the start of next season he will already be 28. That's very old for a player that's only going to be signing his 2nd contract.

Not overly concerning for me, given what he's asked to do.

You'll only sign him to a 4-5 year deal anyway, meaning by the time the deal is over, it will probably be time to move on from him anyway.

[RavensFanMania]

On 7/19/2016 at 10:46 AM, BmoreBird22 said:

What exactly made him fall? Just looked him up on NFL.com and they love the athleticism and gave him a third rouns grade. Compared him to Star L, who I wanted in 2013.

It could only be how deep the class was.  I watched some of his tape during the forum draft as well and came away impressed with his athleticism.

[Mt. Crushmore]

8 hours ago, RavensFanMania said:

It could only be how deep the class was.  I watched some of his tape during the forum draft as well and came away impressed with his athleticism.

And he was a D2 player, which is below even FCS.

[Sherly_Tebow]

Devin Hester was released. He worth taking a look at? 

[rmcjacket23]

4 minutes ago, Sherly_Tebow said:

Devin Hester was released. He worth taking a look at? 

To do what?

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 hour ago, Mt. Crushmore said:

And he was a D2 player, which is below even FCS.

I thought they were talking about Willie Henry?? He played at Michigan.