$13M in cap space &Tucker's Contract Negotiations

[Daft Classic]

11 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

 

Exactly the point. Is a kicker worth $5 million per year? Tucker definitely slipped last year kicking from deep. Especially when you consider this Matt Stover mentored guy is available for the league minimum:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-brad-craddock-emulates-matt-stover-not-justin-tucker-20160224-story.html

 

Maryland Student and Fan here, Craddock really fell hard this past season and I don't know if he'll ever be as good as his Lou Groza season. Does he have potential? Of course, but he definitely isn't going to be nailing 50 yarders like 2 years ago 

[Sherly_Tebow]

I think the Ravens should let Tucker go and sign me. I'm somewhat consistent from 30 yards out and my career long is 43 yards. Plus I'll play for free! It's a Win-Win situation!

 

[mc_red23]

15 hours ago, Cillmatic said:

Turns out, the deal the Ravens just offered Tucker was LESS than a PREVIOUS offer. 

 

I've NEVER Heard of a professional sports team do something that asinine & disrespectful in negotiations.

You should look up some of Liverpool FC's negotiations from a few years back. We made a £15m bid for a player, the other club accepted, we decided to go back and offer £10m . 

I despise some agents. They're supposed to be there to get deals done easier, sometimes they make it twice as hard.

[B-more Ravor]

Keep in mind that with contract dynamics, it's always easy to paint the number how you'd like.

For instance a 5 year deal at $4M per year is a $20M deal.

Not saying they did - but if the Ravens then offered an alternative deal of 4 years at $4.5M (a higher yearly rate), the total is only $18M.

So, the total value is LESS than the prior offer, but at a higher yearly rate and the shorter deal gets Tucker back on the FA market sooner (to cash in again at a young age).

Shorter deals also means less bonuses and less guarantees. So, "less" also applies there.

But, whether it is or not, remains to be seen though, without the details.

Also, remember Ozzie urged Reed to take a shorter deal, but when he didn't, Reed complained about the deal in the later years. I think Ozzie would always like shorter deals, but most agents and players don't want to take the risk.

[rmw10]

9 minutes ago, B-more Ravor said:

Keep in mind that with contract dynamics, it's always easy to paint the number how you'd like.

For instance a 5 year deal at $4M per year is a $20M deal.

Not saying they did - but if the Ravens then offered an alternative deal of 4 years at $4.5M (a higher yearly rate), the total is only $18M.

So, the total value is LESS than the prior offer, but at a higher yearly rate and the shorter deal gets Tucker back on the FA market sooner (to cash in again at a young age).

Shorter deals also means less bonuses and less guarantees. So, "less" also applies there.

But, whether it is or not, remains to be seen though, without the details.

Also, remember Ozzie urged Reed to take a shorter deal, but when he didn't, Reed complained about the deal in the later years. I think Ozzie would always like shorter deals, but most agents and players don't want to take the risk.

Darrelle Revis is the master of those shorter deals.  He continually put himself on the FA market and racked up the guaranteed $.  He's one of a few that was willing to take that bet on himself.  While it makes sense, I can also see how it's difficult to pass up tons of money over a long period of time for the sake of security.

I think in Tucker's case, the offer he gets today is likely to be similar to the offer he gets next year.  The question for him is whether he wants the security now or whether he wants to risk it and get the guaranteed money this year and again next year.

Admittedly, he's in a much less risky position as a kicker.  However, we've also seen a damn good kicker in Mason Crosby have a downright awful year, and you never know what can happen in Tucker's case.

Edited July 15, 2016 by rmw10

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

The two most recent deals that make sense are Gostkowski's from last year and Crosby's from roughly three months ago.

He should slot somewhere in between, which is between $4-$4.3M. I can't see his agent going he should be higher than $4.5, though again I think its laughable we are talking about a couple hundred K difference.

I definitely agree those are the 2 deals that Tuckers should be based on.

Bailey and Janikowski/Gould only entered bc Gostkowski's 14% increase on the previous high was brought up. I wasnt saying I think those deals should be factored in with Tuckers negotiations - just pointing out that Gostkowsi's 14% increase over those deals was either a 14% increase after 2 Cap jumps, or a 14% increase over a 7 year deal with half as much guaranteed money, so not a great deal to compare Gostkowski's to.  Then alluding that Tucker getting a 16% increase over Gostkowskis deal isnt really justified by Gostkowski's 14% increase over the previous large for the stated reasons.

Which, again, is probably a moot point since we dont know that Tucker's asking for the ~$5m.

I do think that Tucker should slot between the $4m and $4.3m average and be around $10m guaranteed since thats what he'd get on back-to-back tags.

I have a feeling this perceived 'slight' from the Ravens in "offering a lesser contract on the 2nd go around" is probably a reaction to Tucker wanting a higher average than the 1st offer, so the Ravens said ok but decreased the guarantee up front; or the converse that Tuckers agent countered wanting more guaranteed to which the ravens obliged but offered less on the per annum.

Edited July 15, 2016 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, B-more Ravor said:

Keep in mind that with contract dynamics, it's always easy to paint the number how you'd like.

For instance a 5 year deal at $4M per year is a $20M deal.

Not saying they did - but if the Ravens then offered an alternative deal of 4 years at $4.5M (a higher yearly rate), the total is only $18M.

So, the total value is LESS than the prior offer, but at a higher yearly rate and the shorter deal gets Tucker back on the FA market sooner (to cash in again at a young age).

Shorter deals also means less bonuses and less guarantees. So, "less" also applies there.

But, whether it is or not, remains to be seen though, without the details.

Also, remember Ozzie urged Reed to take a shorter deal, but when he didn't, Reed complained about the deal in the later years. I think Ozzie would always like shorter deals, but most agents and players don't want to take the risk.

I mean just generally speaking, locking up a kicker (literally any kicker) for like 5 years or longer is just dumb. These guys can become just garbage in a matter of months, and that applies to the really good one's as well.

I can't see the Ravens going beyond a 5th year, and I would think 3-4 years makes more sense. I can definitely see Tucker asking for as long as possible, so could potentially be the hangup there.

[Deflated Football]

1 hour ago, Sherly_Tebow said:

I think the Ravens should let Tucker go and sign me. I'm somewhat consistent from 30 yards out and my career long is 43 yards. Plus I'll play for free! It's a Win-Win situation!

 

But can you sing opera? 

[Ravenseconbeast]

I see Tucker's agent is getting a bit antsy lately in the media.   

Well whether the agent wants to believe it not, Ravens are going to pay the 'man'.   Tucker is going to be rich.   I don't think offers we made were 'cheap'

But we are definitely not going to pay ransom's fee.   Plus we have the advantage of using tag twice.   Ravens holds the control of Tucker for at least 2 years if they want to.

[usmccharles]

4 hours ago, rmw10 said:

I think that's the real kicker here.  Yes, awful pun intended.

I highly doubt Tucker is coming into this looking to make $6M a year or something well above market value.  I'd think they're asking for $5M, which while a little high, isn't totally unreasonable.  I mean, that's only $700K over the current highest paid, and $700K is minimal cap space to an NFL team.  That's why I have a hard time seeing it not get done.  I don't believe we'd be in the business fr burning a bridge just to save $700K per year.  The only other issue I could see is if the guarantees just aren't up to par.

This has been the point I've been trying to make.  I know we don't want to just give the player what he wants, but at the same time, what does it say about us not rewarding players who have done great for us.  This isn't like with Torrey where we were 15million apart.

 

[Sherly_Tebow]

1 hour ago, Deflated Football said:

But can you sing opera? 

I'm the lead singer of my band, but not opera. That's too much for me ? Lol

[robbie29]

I wonder if the FO could convince Flacco to donate a few of his mega millions to the cause of signing Tucker. After all, Tucker has scored nearly as many points for the Ravens as Joe has. Just sayin.

[Tiznut]

Didn't flacco new sign free up a lil bit of cap room so he kinda did free up room for tucker 

[berad]

4 minutes ago, Tiznut said:

Didn't flacco new sign free up a lil bit of cap room so he kinda did free up room for tucker 

Yup good point

[Sherly_Tebow]

Maybe the FO is just trying to talk down Tucker's agent as much as possible until last minute and then just go with that number?

[usmccharles]

9 minutes ago, Tiznut said:

Didn't flacco new sign free up a lil bit of cap room so he kinda did free up room for tucker 

 

5 minutes ago, berad said:

Yup good point

Yes, but Flacco isn't losing any money doing so. 

[rmcjacket23]

30 minutes ago, robbie29 said:

I wonder if the FO could convince Flacco to donate a few of his mega millions to the cause of signing Tucker. After all, Tucker has scored nearly as many points for the Ravens as Joe has. Just sayin.

Only if you donate some of your salary to one of your coworkers so they can make more money first...

If you do that, I'll personally ask Joe.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

One hour left to get it done.

Asking everyone I can for an update, but nothing so far. I dont like this at all for some reason.... like I get both sides and understand its business. But just something about Tucker - feels like hes meant to be here and was from the very get go. And its clear he loves being here. He showed up all offseason assuming it would just get done, and a lot of guys dont do that. I'd hate for it not to get done and somehow sour the relationship even a little.

If it's close just pay the man. Give him Gostkowski money. If thats what theyre offering and Tucker is holding out for more, well then its on him and i wont like that one bit either. Go up to $4.5m if necessary... if hes waiting for $5m then hes asking too much imo.

Just get it done guys.

[usmccharles]

10 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

One hour left to get it done.

Asking everyone I can for an update, but nothing so far. I dont like this at all for some reason.... like I get both sides and understand its business. But just something about Tucker - feels like hes meant to be here and was from the very get go. And its clear he loves being here. He showed up all offseason assuming it would just get done, and a lot of guys dont do that. I'd hate for it not to get done and somehow sour the relationship even a little.

If it's close just pay the man. Give him Gostkowski money. If thats what theyre offering and Tucker is holding out for more, well then its on him and i wont like that one bit either. Go up to $4.5m if necessary... if hes waiting for $5m then hes asking too much imo.

Just get it done guys.

I think 4.5 is where it should be really.  All contracts go up each year, I know kickers are different, but his overall body of work has him as a top 5 kicker in the league.  He has his worst year here when the entire team has its worst year in the Flacco era.  Shouldn't teams show some loyalty, especially over a couple hundred thousand. 

[Moderator 3]

I'm not holding my breath.  The agent crossed a line and the situation might not be salvageable at this point.  Tucker gets a well-paid year to prove he should get a big contract. No lose for anybody, unless he stinks it up.

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

I'm not holding my breath.  The agent crossed a line and the situation might not be salvageable at this point.  Tucker gets a well-paid year to prove he should get a big contract. No lose for anybody, unless he stinks it up.

Franchise tag still available next season (and Tucker's agent should know that), and I've found that money cures all these problems generally.

[rmw10]

It's quiet.... too quiet.

[rmw10]

BOOM.

Edited July 15, 2016 by rmw10

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

2 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

It's quiet.... too quiet.

That was easy.... yea a little too easy.

THERES RAPH!.... yea a little too Raph.

 

Movie?? Anyone, anyone?

[usmccharles]

thank god

[JoeLewis]

Let's goooo babyyyyy

 

[Tiznut]

Tucker can sign the tag fire his agent get long term deal during season

[Grapple Raven]

This is the only thing I've seen at the moment:  http://nfltraderumors.co/breaking-ravens-sign-k-justin-tucker-long-term-deal/

[rmw10]

 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

2 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

BOOM.

BOOOOOOOOM.

I tweeted the Ravens and Justin Tucker that they need to meet in the middle right now... for the fans.

And then you post this!!!

 

You're welcome everyone... it was definitely my tweet.