$13M in cap space &Tucker's Contract Negotiations

[ludy51]

Seriously? What happened to "I'm confident that we're going to get A deal done"?

[rmw10]

Yep.  Direct quote from his agent.  I'm going with it being agent talk to drive up the price.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/17078919/baltimore-ravens-kicker-justin-tucker-frustrated-negotiations-long-term-deal-not-re-sign

[Moderator 3]

Might not be his choice next year.  We could franchise him again. 

 

Oh, and crap like that from the agent is likely to just make the Ravens dig in.  They are not open to negotiating through the media.

[usmccharles]

14 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I'm sure he wants to be the highest paid kicker in the NFL, but at this point in time, he doesn't deserve that.

He's dropped his FG% two years in a row and gradually gotten worse from over 50, coming to a low of 40% this year. 

We also think of him as being Mr. Automatic and clutch at the end of games, but he only made 78% of his field goals in the fourth, none from over 50.

I wouldn't pay him more than Gostowski unless he could get back to 2013/2014 because these last two years showed he's not worth that. 

Well at this time last year, Gostkowski signed his deal (4.3 mill@4 years) so with another year of inflation in the market with the cap going up, I don't think its out of reason for him to make the same.  I have no issues him being around 4.5mill a year, is it really worth losing him over a couple hundred thousand?  I mean, even from 4.5mill to 5mill isn't enough for me to let him walk.  500k is easily doable. 

[Cillmatic]

Turns out, the deal the Ravens just offered Tucker was LESS than a PREVIOUS offer. 

 

I've NEVER Heard of a professional sports team do something that asinine & disrespectful in negotiations.

[ludy51]

1 minute ago, Cillmatic said:

Turns out, the deal the Ravens just offered Tucker was LESS than a PREVIOUS offer. 

 

I've NEVER Heard of a professional sports team do something that asinine & disrespectful in negotiations.

"We live in a different world from 10 minutes ago".

[ravensdan]

I don't understand why people get upset with the players when they use their few negotiating tactics they have but when the team does the same their shrewd negotiators. People should remember these negotiations are business. 

[A Fish Called Yanda]

Disappointing, but I suppose I can somewhat understand it from a negotiating point of view.

Sign the man to whatever Gostkowski is making, or a little bit more.  I don't understand why we would offer him less money, unless by "less" we're talking about fewer years.

[redlobster]

I know you don't technically pay for past performance but Ravens don't win the Super Bowl without him.

[52liveforever]

Can't blame him. He deserves a big pay day. 

[RaineV1]

On the road Tucker is amazing. At home... he's had his issues. The Ravens might be waiting to see if he can get more consistent during this season.

[Tiznut]

5 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

On the road Tucker is amazing. At home... he's had his issues. The Ravens might be waiting to see if he can get more consistent during this season.

Possible 

[usmccharles]

I just don't want to be one of those teams that have to cringe when a FG is happening.  Remember beating the Steelers because they missed 3 or so FGs, that kicker isn't on their roster anymore.  Granted we don't know what has been offered, but if the FO only offered him say 4.3 over 4 years and he wants 4.7 over 4 years, is 1.6mill really worth losing one of the top Ks in the league? 

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, usmccharles said:

Well at this time last year, Gostkowski signed his deal (4.3 mill@4 years) so with another year of inflation in the market with the cap going up, I don't think its out of reason for him to make the same.  I have no issues him being around 4.5mill a year, is it really worth losing him over a couple hundred thousand?  I mean, even from 4.5mill to 5mill isn't enough for me to let him walk.  500k is easily doable. 

Is he worth one of the highest cap hits on the team? 

If he broke Gostowski's deal, the cap hits would make him one of the higher ones on the team and probably not aave a significant amount this year. 

[bioLarzen]

1 hour ago, OzzieBisciotti said:

As I predicted a couple of weeks ago, Oz is cheaping out on Tucker:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/17078919/baltimore-ravens-kicker-justin-tucker-frustrated-negotiations-long-term-deal-not-re-sign

Here's another good one we'll lose. Besides Yanda and Flacco, we've let alll our good players leave..

About the worst thing Tuacker could have actually done is trying to corner Ozzie with a threat. It has never worked. The last player to try that road was Haloti Ngata - to weeks later he was lookig for a house in Detroit...

One thing's for sure: a kicker - even if it's one like Tucker - won't make a precedent of how to threat Ozzie into a better contract offer. I seriously think that Tucker has made his chances to stay in Baltimore significantly worse - if he hasn't burnt the bridge altogether (which, as he indicated - he has no intent to walk accross anyway. You don't threat a good GM.

Edited July 15, 2016 by bioLarzen

[usmccharles]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

Is he worth one of the highest cap hits on the team? 

If he broke Gostowski's deal, the cap hits would make him one of the higher ones on the team and probably not aave a significant amount this year. 

Im not good at cap hit math and stuff....can you give me an example?

[FGSB]

He seems more interested in singing crappy opera or eating Royal Farms than improving his kicking which has steadily declined over the last two seasons anyway. Screw it, good riddance.

Edit: The truth is painful isn't it

Edited July 15, 2016 by FGSB

[rmcjacket23]

23 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Is he worth one of the highest cap hits on the team? 

If he broke Gostowski's deal, the cap hits would make him one of the higher ones on the team and probably not aave a significant amount this year. 

 

21 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Im not good at cap hit math and stuff....can you give me an example?

Depends on contract structure. Gostkowskis deal had a year 1 cap hit of $3.6M, which would rank Tucker as 13th on the team this year. Right now he's 7th under the tag. 

Wouldn't we agree he's a top 10 player on thus team in terms of value? May be a stretch, but if you excluded non rookie deals, he's easily one of the top 10 most valuable veteran contract players.

[BmoreBird22]

27 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Im not good at cap hit math and stuff....can you give me an example?

 

5 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Depends on contract structure. Gostkowskis deal had a year 1 cap hit of $3.6M, which would rank Tucker as 13th on the team this year. Right now he's 7th under the tag. 

Wouldn't we agree he's a top 10 player on thus team in terms of value? May be a stretch, but if you excluded non rookie deals, he's easily one of the top 10 most valuable veteran contract players.

rmc sums up the cap hits here, but Tucker would almost certainly exceed the $3.6M and probably be in the top 10 with a new deal.

I don't like the idea of having a player who has only gotten gradually worse recently being top 10 in my cap hits. I think the Ravens were probably content to let him play this year under the tag to see if the regression continues and Tucker doesn't want that, so he made this threat.

[757RavensFan]

8 minutes ago, FGSB said:

He seems more interested in singing crappy opera or eating Royal Farms than improving his kicking which has steadily declined over the last two seasons anyway. Screw it, good riddance.

Yeah bc you absolutely know when, where and how often he practices during his spare time.  SMH

[usmccharles]

14 minutes ago, FGSB said:

He seems more interested in singing crappy opera or eating Royal Farms than improving his kicking which has steadily declined over the last two seasons anyway. Screw it, good riddance.

Whats up mr over reaction. 

 

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

 

rmc sums up the cap hits here, but Tucker would almost certainly exceed the $3.6M and probably be in the top 10 with a new deal.

I don't like the idea of having a player who has only gotten gradually worse recently being top 10 in my cap hits. I think the Ravens were probably content to let him play this year under the tag to see if the regression continues and Tucker doesn't want that, so he made this threat.

Valid points.  what do you think the max we should give him is?

[JO_75]

Sounds like the agent trying to make Ozzie and co out to be a bad guy and get the fans to "pressure" Ozzie into signing him to a long term deal. His agent must be clueless to the fact that we can just franchise him again next year.

Please remember folks, this is all agent talk and is something all agents do. They want best not just for their pockets, but their clients pockets as well. Yeah you see reports by the media that say "Justin Tucker won't re-sign if a deal isn't done", "Justin Tucker is frustrated" that makes Tucker the bad guy. Do not direct any frustration if he doesn't get re-signed toward Justin, call him greedy, etc. I'm sure Justin is spending more time with his new one month old than worrying about a new contract. Tucker even showed up to Voluntary OTAs where he didn't have to be there but he showed up, yet he's "frustrated" and "won't re-sign". 

Just read Ryan Mink's article from a month ago where Justin talked about showing up for Voluntary OTAs because he loves football, he wants to get better and knows he will get better working directly with Morgan Cox and Sam Koch. Yeah that sounds like a player frustrated.

[rmcjacket23]

11 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

 

rmc sums up the cap hits here, but Tucker would almost certainly exceed the $3.6M and probably be in the top 10 with a new deal.

I don't like the idea of having a player who has only gotten gradually worse recently being top 10 in my cap hits. I think the Ravens were probably content to let him play this year under the tag to see if the regression continues and Tucker doesn't want that, so he made this threat.

Well I mean there's pretty much no way his first year cap hit is higher than it is now at roughly 4.5, so any extension would likely save a little bit this year.

I personally don't really care about the "regression". I covered this in another topic, but his struggles are exclusively from 50+ and its, in my judgment, a combination of poor offensive production in those areas of the field AND a bit of regression to the mean. He was kicking like 90% from 50+ in his first two years, which is unsustainable long term by any kicker. If he's in the 60-70% range from that distance, we lower his attempts to a more reasonable level (5-6 per year like most teams), and he maintains his success inside of 50, he's basically one of the top 2-3 kickers in the league.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

They need to use the money to get fair deals done. Fair for both the player and team. Tucker has been a good person/player on and off the field so a fair investment by the team should happen. I would also like to see B. Williams get a fair extension he has also been a good person/player on and off the field.

[rmcjacket23]

20 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Whats up mr over reaction. 

 

Valid points.  what do you think the max we should give him is?

Hard to say what the max would be, but I'd say 4.5.

Problem is, if you believe Tucker agent, we are offering less than the Mason Crosby deal from March, which was basically 4.0 a year for four years. Tucker is clearly a better kicker than him from a consistency standpoint.

[BmoreBird22]

23 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Valid points.  what do you think the max we should give him is?

Tough to say since Gostowski is making $4.3 and Crosby is making $4.0. I don't think he should make more than Gostowski, but more than Crosby. I personally wouldn't mind if he tied Gostowski, but it sounds like he's trying to set the precedent of being the highest paid kicker in the NFL and at that point, you'd be looking at AAV of at least the tag amount, probably more, and the guaranteed money would have to exceed at least $9.9M (that's what two tags back to back would be).

[BmoreBird22]

14 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well I mean there's pretty much no way his first year cap hit is higher than it is now at roughly 4.5, so any extension would likely save a little bit this year.

I personally don't really care about the "regression". I covered this in another topic, but his struggles are exclusively from 50+ and its, in my judgment, a combination of poor offensive production in those areas of the field AND a bit of regression to the mean. He was kicking like 90% from 50+ in his first two years, which is unsustainable long term by any kicker. If he's in the 60-70% range from that distance, we lower his attempts to a more reasonable level (5-6 per year like most teams), and he maintains his success inside of 50, he's basically one of the top 2-3 kickers in the league.

I definitely think he's one of the top 5 kickers in the NFL, easily, and I do agree that the offense wasn't always putting him in a great position (doing those kicks to end games isn't easy), but the issue for me is that he has plenty of leg. It's not a power issue. He's just not hitting them like he was.

And maybe I'm totally imagining this, but early on, Tucker seemed to just slice them down the middle (2012, 2013), but now it seems like they kinda just barely squeek in for the most part.

[rmw10]

I'd guess $4.5M is the magic number in Tucker's camp.  I'd think the Ravens want to pay $4.1M or so.  For reference, I don't believe the idea that we offered less than we had offered previously.  Come tomorrow, I think they'll agree somewhere slightly above Gostkowski.

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I'd guess $4.5M is the magic number in Tucker's camp.  I'd think the Ravens want to pay $4.1M or so.  For reference, I don't believe the idea that we offered less than we had offered previously.  Come tomorrow, I think they'll agree somewhere slightly above Gostkowski.

I'd imagine the guaranteed money is a big hanging point.

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I'd imagine the guaranteed money is a big hanging point.

I'd imagine that's the biggest discussion right.  There's a fascination all over the league with being the highest paid player, though.  Guys are always looking for that extra $100K or so to be the top dog.  Assuming the 4 year contract is the standard for a K, I think we could see an $11-12M guarantee come tomorrow.