$13M in cap space &Tucker's Contract Negotiations

[The Raven]

Let me play devil's advocate to the people saying lock up Williams at all costs...

Is it actually worth the investment to throw big money at a run stuffing NT type that doesn't get sacks or even pressure?

This is a passing league. I hate it, but it is. Tough, strong guys like Williams would get the big contracts 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago, but I don't think I want to give him 5 years 45 million. That's $9 million a year to get fewer than five sacks a year. Why bother? The highest paid 3-4 nose tackle - according to Over the Cap, is Jaye Howard on Kansas City, and he only makes $5 million a year. But, he just had a five sack season. Williams had two. Every other 3-4 NT makes even less than $5 million.

You need pass rushers in this league. Cloggers are out, penetrators are in. Save that money for Jernigan or someone that's actually on the field in passing situations. Look at our recent draft classes. Everyone is a penetrator. Someone who shoots gaps in the run game and gets after the QB on third down. We're in a transition.

Brandon Williams is indeed the best at what he does - but is a one dimensional nose tackle worth the pay that he will probably demand? Nose tackles aren't worth more than $5 million a year. 

[Tru11]

new chop block rules might increase williams worth some more.

probably gonna be the highest paid NT after the season.

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, The Raven said:

Let me play devil's advocate to the people saying lock up Williams at all costs...

Is it actually worth the investment to throw big money at a run stuffing NT type that doesn't get sacks or even pressure?

This is a passing league. I hate it, but it is. Tough, strong guys like Williams would get the big contracts 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago, but I don't think I want to give him 5 years 45 million. That's $9 million a year to get fewer than five sacks a year. Why bother? The highest paid 3-4 nose tackle - according to Over the Cap, is Jaye Howard on Kansas City, and he only makes $5 million a year. But, he just had a five sack season. Williams had two. Every other 3-4 NT makes even less than $5 million.

You need pass rushers in this league. Cloggers are out, penetrators are in. Save that money for Jernigan or someone that's actually on the field in passing situations. Look at our recent draft classes. Everyone is a penetrator. Someone who shoots gaps in the run game and gets after the QB on third down. We're in a transition.

Brandon Williams is indeed the best at what he does - but is a one dimensional nose tackle worth the pay that he will probably demand? Nose tackles aren't worth more than $5 million a year. 

Depends on what the value is.

The issue here is that 3-4 NT aren't expected to be pass rushers. They are run stoppers and space eaters. Damon Harrison was a 3-4 NT for the last three years with NYJ, and he netted 1.5 total sacks during that period. That netted him a contract worth north of $9M a year. You could argue that the Giants overpaid him, or that since they plan to switch him to a DT in a 4-3 that his expected value is higher, but he had never showed himself as a "sack" guy.

So we are back to trying to determine value, which becomes difficult.

I get the argument for Jernigan, though I wouldn't necessarily classify him as a "sack" guy either. Basically, he's Art Jones. Pretty good but not great against the run, probably going to get you 4-5 sacks a year. 

So the question becomes... are you saying we should pay twice as much for a guy like Jernigan (who would probably get $8-9M a year at least on the open market) when compared to Williams (who you say should be a $5M a year guy) for what amounts to about 3-4 sacks a year?

Haloti Ngata as a comparison is an interesting case. He played just about everywhere on the Dline, including a decent amount of time at NT. We gave him a market value contract after he averaged 2.5 sacks a season on his rookie deal.

Plus, I certainly don't think this is a one or the other scenario. Could easily have the cap space to retain both long term in a few years. By the time we are ready to extend Jernigan, guys like Suggs, Dumervil, etc. may not even be on this team anymore. Jernigan won't even be a FA until the 2018 season. Suggs will be 35 at that point and most likely will be retired, Doom will be 34 and his contract expires after 2017.

From where I'm sitting... I don't see that many stud defensive players (or even offensive players) we will need to be retaining on super rich deals in the next 2-3 years, so where else are we going to spend our money? Go out and pay top dollar on the FA market for a similar player?

If there's one thing I think we are setup nicely for in the next 3-4 years, its the ability to retain our own young players that we want to keep. By the time 2017 gets here, we will be able to shed any veteran or bad contracts we want for the most part.

Look at our 2017 contract situations... there's only like four veterans who we couldn't "cut" due to cap impact. Its Flacco, Jimmy, Yanda and probably Weddle. Outside of that and guys on rookie deals, almost anybody else on the team could be cut and we could gain at least marginal cap space.

 

Edited July 6, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[trevorsteadman]

Lock up Brandon Williams at all costs. He is the only proven defensive linemen at this point. The team has invested several high to mid draft picks on guys we want to be great but they are all very inconsistent. He is the priority. Tucker can be franchised over and over if needed and I bet he is happy getting paid a lot more than he used to already. Aiken is a very interesting topic but I don't think a deal gets done until next season to make sure he stays consistent. Last thing the Ravens need is another bad contract with a bunch of dead money in the end. Rick Wagner try to sign for cheap but if that doesn't work then maybe they want the new guy to replace him next season. Brandon Williams is the priority.

 

And as much as I want the team to invest in another inside linebacker I want to see how Correa and Orr do there. Orr has done a solid job and is always where he needs to be but never a flashy guy. Training camps will give a better idea of what will happen.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Yea.... im torn on Williams. Love him - he's a Raven for sure. But, so was Art Jones and seems we made the right decision there.

He's great at what he does, but i dont know that you can field all the pieces you need for a great defense in today's league if you have a one dimensional, run stuffer making big money. I hope they find a way to keep him, but as always right player right price. If Carl Davis ends up being 80% of the player for a fraction of the money, its adios Brandon.

[rmcjacket23]

26 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Yea.... im torn on Williams. Love him - he's a Raven for sure. But, so was Art Jones and seems we made the right decision there.

He's great at what he does, but i dont know that you can field all the pieces you need for a great defense in today's league if you have a one dimensional, run stuffer making big money. I hope they find a way to keep him, but as always right player right price. If Carl Davis ends up being 80% of the player for a fraction of the money, its adios Brandon.

Yeah but Carl Davis isn't a NT. If we let Williams go we will need to find another large run stopper in the middle. I'm not necessarily opposed to this, however.

As I said before, we spend all of our money most of the time. And as such, I don't see a whole lot of players on this defense or this team in general that are more worthy of getting a near market value contract than Brandon Williams.

Look at the 2013 and 2014 draft classes, which are basically the players we would look to extend in the next 1-2 years.

From the 2013 draft, there's the two players we know about... Williams and Wagner. Wagner as a RT probably won't fetch a seriously high price. Guys like Elam, Brown and anybody else from that draft class (Juice) are low tier guys that can be resigned for cheaper amounts that aren't really worth worrying about in my eyes if we decide to retain them.

From the 2014 draft, which you probably won't talk about extending any of these guys until at least next offseason, you've got Mosley (who we can pick up a 5th year option for if we desire, buying us another year to negotiate) and Jernigan. And again, you've got a handful of guys like Gillmore, Urban, or Urschel that you may choose to retain but aren't likely to cost very much to do so.

So basically, in the next two years, you've got Williams, Wagner and Jernigan. I think the first two of them earned respectable pay days for their position, and Jernigan could probably use one complete year as a starter and full time player performing well before we go for an Art Jones-like deal for him.

To me, I don't really see much of an issue retaining all three of these guys at close to market value if we really wanted to, given our current cap situation.

Edited July 7, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[January J]

On 7/5/2016 at 2:38 PM, RaineV1 said:

Personally, I'd use it try to get a new deal with Williams. He's easily the biggest person they need to resign. Though getting deals done with Wagner and Aiken could be good too.

My thoughts exactly.

On 7/5/2016 at 4:05 PM, 757RavensFan said:

There's only one justifiable reason if you ask me and that's to protect yourself if you somehow get injured this year.  

Yeah that's about it.  If I was him I would take my chances though and roll the dice- but injuries do occur very frequently. Maybe he'd rather go ahead and take the money now if we give him a respectable offer- you never know. Would be awesome to get him, Tucker and aiken locked up though and not have that lingering. Esp when BWill is on the cusp of a breakout probowl season. But again he knows that too  and is why he will most likely hold off.

[ravefan52]

I'd try to re-sign Williams now, but wouldn't pay a premium amount for a run stuffer. Either way it just makes too much sense for him to wait till the offseason. I wouldn't talk to Wagner until he shows he's back to his old pre-injury self, so maybe at some point during the season. Also depends on how Lewis progresses. Tucker has to be a priority at some point, but isn't one now.

Signing a player who gets cut could definitely be an option, but unless it is a multi-year deal I'd probably rather just save the money. I'd rather have more money next year after we've had a season to kind of get back on track. Then we can really aim for a Super Bowl.

Edited July 8, 2016 by ravefan52

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

12 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Yeah but Carl Davis isn't a NT. If we let Williams go we will need to find another large run stopper in the middle. I'm not necessarily opposed to this, however.

As I said before, we spend all of our money most of the time. And as such, I don't see a whole lot of players on this defense or this team in general that are more worthy of getting a near market value contract than Brandon Williams.

Look at the 2013 and 2014 draft classes, which are basically the players we would look to extend in the next 1-2 years.

From the 2013 draft, there's the two players we know about... Williams and Wagner. Wagner as a RT probably won't fetch a seriously high price. Guys like Elam, Brown and anybody else from that draft class (Juice) are low tier guys that can be resigned for cheaper amounts that aren't really worth worrying about in my eyes if we decide to retain them.

From the 2014 draft, which you probably won't talk about extending any of these guys until at least next offseason, you've got Mosley (who we can pick up a 5th year option for if we desire, buying us another year to negotiate) and Jernigan. And again, you've got a handful of guys like Gillmore, Urban, or Urschel that you may choose to retain but aren't likely to cost very much to do so.

So basically, in the next two years, you've got Williams, Wagner and Jernigan. I think the first two of them earned respectable pay days for their position, and Jernigan could probably use one complete year as a starter and full time player performing well before we go for an Art Jones-like deal for him.

To me, I don't really see much of an issue retaining all three of these guys at close to market value if we really wanted to, given our current cap situation.

True but that's only internally. Haven't looked at it yet, but if there's a really good pass rusher, corner, guard, ILB or WR on the market and some of these young guys aren't panning out and we miss an opportunity at a stud upgrade at a position of need bc we jumped the gun on extending Williams. 

Plus, with the whispers of running more 4-3 fronts Williams value declines quite a bit. We could do that and remain incredibly deep on the interior. 

If we can get Williams for $6-7m I'm all for it. I don't like the Harrison deal as a measure, bc first the Giants were absolutely desperate for defensive line talent and had a national treasury worth of cap space. We won't. 

Plus, Harrison was THE best run defender in the league last year. Williams is great at what he does, but arguably a tick below Harrison. Both are somewhat one dimensional and best suited at a true NT like you said, but we could help alleviate that need with a minor switch in philosophy/scheme (not that we're in base all that often anyways).

Question somewhat related - did Frazier run a 4-3 or 3-4?? Could very well see him taking over as DC next year unless Pees has a great year. That could impact the value of Williams here. 

Ultimately I think something gets done. I think he wants to be here and I think we want him here. But he can't hold out for top money like KO did or there could be problems. Btw, if we match Harrison's deal for Williams that means we're willing to pay him the same amount we were willing to offer KO. I don't see them as equal value at all. 

[The Raven]

7 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

True but that's only internally. Haven't looked at it yet, but if there's a really good pass rusher, corner, guard, ILB or WR on the market and some of these young guys aren't panning out and we miss an opportunity at a stud upgrade at a position of need bc we jumped the gun on extending Williams. 

Plus, with the whispers of running more 4-3 fronts Williams value declines quite a bit. We could do that and remain incredibly deep on the interior. 

If we can get Williams for $6-7m I'm all for it. I don't like the Harrison deal as a measure, bc first the Giants were absolutely desperate for defensive line talent and had a national treasury worth of cap space. We won't. 

Plus, Harrison was THE best run defender in the league last year. Williams is great at what he does, but arguably a tick below Harrison. Both are somewhat one dimensional and best suited at a true NT like you said, but we could help alleviate that need with a minor switch in philosophy/scheme (not that we're in base all that often anyways).

Question somewhat related - did Frazier run a 4-3 or 3-4?? Could very well see him taking over as DC next year unless Pees has a great year. That could impact the value of Williams here. 

Ultimately I think something gets done. I think he wants to be here and I think we want him here. But he can't hold out for top money like KO did or there could be problems. Btw, if we match Harrison's deal for Williams that means we're willing to pay him the same amount we were willing to offer KO. I don't see them as equal value at all. 

Frazier ran a 4-3, and I think you're on to something there.

Also, NFL defenses are trending away from the traditional two-gap 3-4. More and more 3-4 defenses are single gap models featuring the penetrator types. See Houston.

[rmcjacket23]

17 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

True but that's only internally. Haven't looked at it yet, but if there's a really good pass rusher, corner, guard, ILB or WR on the market and some of these young guys aren't panning out and we miss an opportunity at a stud upgrade at a position of need bc we jumped the gun on extending Williams. 

Plus, with the whispers of running more 4-3 fronts Williams value declines quite a bit. We could do that and remain incredibly deep on the interior. 

If we can get Williams for $6-7m I'm all for it. I don't like the Harrison deal as a measure, bc first the Giants were absolutely desperate for defensive line talent and had a national treasury worth of cap space. We won't. 

Plus, Harrison was THE best run defender in the league last year. Williams is great at what he does, but arguably a tick below Harrison. Both are somewhat one dimensional and best suited at a true NT like you said, but we could help alleviate that need with a minor switch in philosophy/scheme (not that we're in base all that often anyways).

Question somewhat related - did Frazier run a 4-3 or 3-4?? Could very well see him taking over as DC next year unless Pees has a great year. That could impact the value of Williams here. 

Ultimately I think something gets done. I think he wants to be here and I think we want him here. But he can't hold out for top money like KO did or there could be problems. Btw, if we match Harrison's deal for Williams that means we're willing to pay him the same amount we were willing to offer KO. I don't see them as equal value at all. 

To me, the whole 4-3/3-4 thing is completely irrelevant. We are talking about a "base" defense that we are playing less than half of the defensive snaps.

If we want to be realistic about it, our "base" defense has at least 5 defensive backs in it. That's unlikely to change, given how the league operates (and in particular how teams in our own division operate).

So basically, our most played defense contains four DLineman (if you include the two edge rushers), 2 linebackers, and five defensive backs (typically three corners and two safeties). 

I also don't see many scenarios where Pees gets fired now or in the near future.

In terms of comparing his value to KO, its an apples to oranges comparison. For starters, LTs are generally more expensive, and there's no possible way KO could produce the value of his contract as a LG. He could be the best Guard in the league annually and he won't match the value of his current deal, because he's not going to be $4-5M better than some of the other good guards in the league (like Yanda), which isn't possible.

Value is a relative term of course, and timing is everything.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

6 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

To me, the whole 4-3/3-4 thing is completely irrelevant. We are talking about a "base" defense that we are playing less than half of the defensive snaps.

If we want to be realistic about it, our "base" defense has at least 5 defensive backs in it. That's unlikely to change, given how the league operates (and in particular how teams in our own division operate).

So basically, our most played defense contains four DLineman (if you include the two edge rushers), 2 linebackers, and five defensive backs (typically three corners and two safeties). 

I also don't see many scenarios where Pees gets fired now or in the near future. Fans have been literally the only one's speculating on this, and they've been doing so every year for many years now.

In terms of comparing his value to KO, its an apples to oranges comparison. For starters, LTs are generally more expensive, and there's no possible way KO could produce the value of his contract as a LG. He could be the best Guard in the league annually and he won't match the value of his current deal, because he's not going to be $4-5M better than some of the other good guards in the league (like Yanda), which isn't possible.

Value is a relative term of course, and timing is everything.

Not really. You can compare value in terms of how much of your total cap space is being taken up by a player, and how much that player impacts your teams performance. Whether at LT or LG, KO would be on the field every offensive snap and playing at an elite level. BWill is a 2 down player, who makes hay stopping the run which is becoming less and less important since most offenses are throwing the ball more and more (even though theres been a slight resurgence in pounding the rock).

And like you said, LT's are generally more expensive, and we were only willing to pay $9m for one... yet we'll pay a guy at a position that's usually less expensive the same?? Doesnt make much sense.

And what im saying is, they were willing to give KO about $9m a year and if theyre willing to give that to BWill - both would take up the same percentage of our cap while imo one impacts our team far greater than the other. Comparing their overall impact on the team relative to cap space isnt apples to oranges.

And what i said still stands even if we're in sub packages most of the time - if our sub package is run a majority of the time with 4 down lineman, Williams value declines. 

[JoeyFlex5]

  Well first priority should be Tucker, it saves cap space and he is an absolute necessity, you never understand how important a rocket-legged clutch kicker is until you don't have one. NT is simply not that valuable a position for us to unload tons of cap space on, as much as it would hurt me to see bwill go, we have too many other needs to fill and future money tied up and guys versatile enough to hold up against the run and possibly exceed in the pass rush. 

 

Guys like aiken and Wagner shouldn't be extended at this point because both could be one hit wonders, although I find it hard for a RT to be the best in the league by accident, but we have to be certain that we aren't shelling out tons of money to a guy who had a major injury, aiken on the other hand could legitimately just be a one hit wonder and we will need to see more from him. 

 

ILB is a major hole at this point. Whether we are running a 43 or 34 we are short a starting LB. correa may be our best at 34ILB but that seriously hurts his value by not allowing him to hassle the qb and blow up screens and sweeps with his speed and hard nose.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

19 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

  Well first priority should be Tucker, it saves cap space and he is an absolute necessity, you never understand how important a rocket-legged clutch kicker is until you don't have one. NT is simply not that valuable a position for us to unload tons of cap space on, as much as it would hurt me to see bwill go, we have too many other needs to fill and future money tied up and guys versatile enough to hold up against the run and possibly exceed in the pass rush. 

 

Guys like aiken and Wagner shouldn't be extended at this point because both could be one hit wonders, although I find it hard for a RT to be the best in the league by accident, but we have to be certain that we aren't shelling out tons of money to a guy who had a major injury, aiken on the other hand could legitimately just be a one hit wonder and we will need to see more from him. 

 

ILB is a major hole at this point. Whether we are running a 43 or 34 we are short a starting LB. correa may be our best at 34ILB but that seriously hurts his value by not allowing him to hassle the qb and blow up screens and sweeps with his speed and hard nose.

Definitely agree - Tuckers #1 priority. I think he'll get done in the next week, makes too much sense not to.

I'd extend Wagner if he will agree to a very reasonable deal. If he wants to hold out or player this year and bet on himself, then by all means let him do it. Likewise, I'd let Aiken do the same. With how many targets we have to spread the ball to, he's unlikely to put up a similar year to last year even if he plays just as well, so I feel like his value can only go down. But, we also saw similar guys like Sanu get paid big money... so its tough to say. I wouldnt pay Sanu money to keep Aiken though. Love him as a Raven, but I feel like his numbers last year were more product of volume and opportunity than really being great.

I think he's a good starter, #2 guy, but paying $8+m for a guy like that just doesnt make much sense. Let the market determine his value and act accordingly.

Then, with opening up some more cap space with the Tucker deal we can roll it all over to next year and hopefully pick up a good, vet LB to play with Mosley. 

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Not really. You can compare value in terms of how much of your total cap space is being taken up by a player, and how much that player impacts your teams performance. Whether at LT or LG, KO would be on the field every offensive snap and playing at an elite level. BWill is a 2 down player, who makes hay stopping the run which is becoming less and less important since most offenses are throwing the ball more and more (even though theres been a slight resurgence in pounding the rock).

And like you said, LT's are generally more expensive, and we were only willing to pay $9m for one... yet we'll pay a guy at a position that's usually less expensive the same?? Doesnt make much sense.

And what im saying is, they were willing to give KO about $9m a year and if theyre willing to give that to BWill - both would take up the same percentage of our cap while imo one impacts our team far greater than the other. Comparing their overall impact on the team relative to cap space isnt apples to oranges.

And what i said still stands even if we're in sub packages most of the time - if our sub package is run a majority of the time with 4 down lineman, Williams value declines. 

Would depend on a large amount of factors. For starters, how likely are we to replace KO with a comparable player vs how likely are we to replace Williams with a comparable player?

We can't really look at it in terms of snap count, because if that were the case, why do we pay pass rushers like $15-20M a year when they aren't playing every snap either?

I mean we call Williams a run stopper primarily because that's where his strength is. But realistically, run stoppers don't play 70% of snaps, because teams aren't running the ball 70% of the time. They're running the ball closer to 40% of the time. So close to half of his snaps are being played when the opponent is throwing the ball. 

Realistically, a better term would be space eater. He's taking on the interior of the offensive line (frequently by himself) in order to open up lanes and spaces for penetration. Put it simply... a really good NT is going to make life easier for Suggs, Dumervil, etc. as well as our linebackers for run stopping penetration.

In general, I'm opposed to giving him a $9-10M a year deal also, but the market sets the prices, not me. We may all be overestimating his value quite a bit, much in the same way that we all completely whiffed on how much KO was worth on the open market.

The issue I bring up again is at some point you have to decide where you want to spend your money. It appears we will have a decent amount of it (not a lot, but respectable amount) and we will have to determine where that is spent. In general, from what I saw in FA last season, there doesn't appear to be a whole lot of "value" players available. The higher end guys that you would want to get to upgrade a position are going for a pretty large price tag, and I don't expect that to change.

So if we gamble with the idea of letting Williams walk in order to free up money to spend on another veteran FA, and we end up getting outbid by somebody else for that player (entirely possible), we are left with money to spend and nobody to spend it on. Granted, there's still the draft, and hopefully our drafting improves from recent years.

Plus, as I've said before, its all about determining what price we are haggling over. If we are offering Williams $7M a year, and he signs elsewhere for like $8-9M a year, was it really worth it to stand our ground? Was that extra $1-2M in a steadily increasing salary cap environment so important that we didn't keep a player we wanted? Granted, if the gap is KO size, where our offer is a good like 30-40% short of the market price, then so be it. But from what I see from our cap situation, I don't see the days of us having to worry about "overpaying" by $1M a year being here anytime soon.

 

[ellicottraven]

Hold on to it and here's why. I don't believe Bernie Williams is going to make a deal this year because he and his agent both know that testing the market when he's a free agent is going to make him really rich. As for Tucker, he's going nowhere and he could be signed next off season and worst case, they could tag him again. As for Aiken, we've only seen him perform 1 yr at a high level. We will still have Perriman and Wallace next year along with a lot of other options at WR next year and maybe we can sign a really good WR as a free agent next season. I don't think Aiken will command top dollar next year simply because he won't get as many touches as he got last year and may not put up the same numbers. So, he could be available for the same price or even cheaper next year. So, unless a really good Corner or ILB becomes available through trade or TC cuts, I say just move over the savings to next year when you'll need it.

[443hurricane]

On 7/5/2016 at 4:05 PM, 757RavensFan said:

There's only one justifiable reason if you ask me and that's to protect yourself if you somehow get injured this year.  

If I'm his agent I go the Kurt cousins /joe flacco route bet on yourself.

[ant2ney]

I'm pretty surprised we didn't use one of our early 4th round picks on Andrew Billings in light of Brandon Williams being in a contract year

Obviously none of us know how we rated him but if there is a guy projected to go in the 1st round available in the early 4th, in a position that is so important to your team when there is uncertainty about the situation of the current guy long term you might of thought we would have taken him 

 

 

[Winchester]

Unless he resigns cheaper than expected, like at about $5mil per now. There is no reason to be pushy resigning williams. Unless you believe he is going to suddenly get much more pressure on qbs. Aiken is not likely to repeat.  Especially if Campanaro and Perriman dodge the injury bullets. Wagner and Jensen are going to be the unchallenged priorities!! Wagner has something to prove again but you do not get to be an all pro tackle by fluke. He is over his injury and reported to of tacked on muscle and cut bad weight and feels stronger and more explosive . He is primed to outperform his 2014 or at least replay it at a similar level. If ravens go back to running a 4-3 and Carl Davis steps up then Williams becomes expendable. Aside from Wagner and Jensen ravens could actually use money on a splash free agent signing for first time in over a decade. If  Suggs retires and ravens cut the relationship with Dumervil and opt not to resign Aiken then ravens could have more cap space than it has in years. There is actually quite a number of players ravens could divorce and create cap space. Pitta,zuttah,forsett to name the obvious. Rumors are beginning to circulate that Zuttah is going to be cut cuz Harbs is so enamored with Jensen Urschel and rookie Lewis has made an impression. Ravens have not drafted any real impact players since KO and could be planning to spend that money on a free agent on the open market. And could very realistically land an impact free agent splash. 

[Sherly_Tebow]

Tomorrow is the deadline for getting a deal with Tucker done, right? If so, what time of the day?

[rmw10]

Just now, Sherly_Tebow said:

Tomorrow is the deadline for getting a deal with Tucker done, right? If so, what time of the day?

4pm tomorrow is the deadline.

[Sherly_Tebow]

10 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

4pm tomorrow is the deadline.

Thank you!

[Willbacker]

Wow! Iwas hoping the deal will get done but they can always use the franchize tag next year albeit with a 20% bump in pay. I'm starting to think they're not gonna get it done but I remember the flurry last year on the last day.

[RAYvenFan20]

I wonder how much Tucker's fg% at M&T is going to effect his contract

[JoeLewis]

what happen if Tucker doesn't get a multiyear contract? Next season again with the franchise tag or to free agency (  ) ?

 

[JoeLewis]

oh boy..

 

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter  54 sHace 54 segundosVer traducción

Ravens' K Justin Tucker is so frustrated with negotiations he's vowing not to re-sign with BALT after season if no long-term deal by Friday.

[BmoreBird22]

If the above is true, I'm gonna lose quite a bit of respect.

[Moderator 3]

He's a kicker.  Granted, he's a REALLY good kicker, but I'm sure our FO has a certain "cap" in mind.  Maybe, just maybe, Tucker is asking too much. There's always more than one side and this is the first we've heard of discord.  All along we've been hearing that both sides expected it to get done.

[rmw10]

I wouldn't fret too much right now.  I'd guess it's 2 sides playing the game.  Suggs was pissed to be the franchise player 2 years in a row and still got a long term deal.  I'm not saying it 100% is, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if that's agent talk to try to push the deal a little higher.

[BmoreBird22]

4 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

He's a kicker.  Granted, he's a REALLY good kicker, but I'm sure our FO has a certain "cap" in mind.  Maybe, just maybe, Tucker is asking too much. There's always more than one side and this is the first we've heard of discord.  All along we've been hearing that both sides expected it to get done.

I'm sure he wants to be the highest paid kicker in the NFL, but at this point in time, he doesn't deserve that.

He's dropped his FG% two years in a row and gradually gotten worse from over 50, coming to a low of 40% this year. 

We also think of him as being Mr. Automatic and clutch at the end of games, but he only made 78% of his field goals in the fourth, none from over 50.

I wouldn't pay him more than Gostowski unless he could get back to 2013/2014 because these last two years showed he's not worth that.