NFL.com's David Carr says Flacco is Number 3 overrated QB

[Winchester]

Tyrol Taylor played very well. Nearly 100 rating. Ravens could of kept him and traded joe cool and saved a lot of money. And have the higher rated qb.

[flynismo]

2 hours ago, Winchester said:

Tyrol Taylor played very well. Nearly 100 rating. Ravens could of kept him and traded joe cool and saved a lot of money. And have the higher rated qb.

Could have. Instead, we kept the far superior quarterback, and are lucky enough to have him at or below market value entering the prime of his career. Glad we made that decision.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

3 hours ago, Winchester said:

Tyrol Taylor played very well. Nearly 100 rating. Ravens could of kept him and traded joe cool and saved a lot of money. And have the higher rated qb.

Tyrod made the pro bowl cause several declined. He was okay, but he's not good enough to win a SB. Joe is.

thinking Taylor is better than Joe is a joke

[usmccharles]

5 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Riveting analysis. 

The Carr and Luck conversations aren't even related. 

And if Flaccos overpaid... Are you saying you'd prefer to save a couple million and have a Bradford/Osweiler level QB??

Bc from now on any QB under the age of 32 that's won even a couple games is going to get near Flacco money. 

In 2-3 years Flacco will still be a top 10 QB and prob won't be making top 10 money. Especially with the new precedents set by Luck, Brock and Bradford this offseason. Flaccos contract will be among the best in terms of value so long as he returns ok from injury. I expect a big jump now that he has weapons for the first time in his career and an offensive system he knows... But even if he stays even it'll be a great looking deal in a year or 2. 

This.  Some people will never understand simple economics, supply and demand, market value, etc...People who post that type of stuff are the same people that wanted Mallet as our starter for the future after an average Steelers game and a eh Bengals game.

[rmcjacket23]

9 hours ago, Winchester said:

Tyrol Taylor played very well. Nearly 100 rating. Ravens could of kept him and traded joe cool and saved a lot of money. And have the higher rated qb.

... for one season.

Now all Tyrod has to do is repeat his performance for about another 4-5 years, and he will be at Joe Flacco's level.

O, and it would also help if he won some football games on occasion too. 

And you're not seriously referencing QB rating as a legitimate statistic are you? Wasn't that debunked like 10 years ago?

Edited July 8, 2016 by rmcjacket23

[rmcjacket23]

13 hours ago, Wisdom said:

Mr. David Carr your the man indeed Flacco is not only overrated but overpaid.  I echo your sentiments on Flacco.  I would take Luck in a heartbeat.

I would certainly hope you would take Luck over Flacco. He's a very good QB who is also 5 years younger.

 

[rmcjacket23]

On 6/30/2016 at 5:56 PM, Ravenseconbeast said:

I can't believe no one is reading what I'm writing.  

 

I was putting stock on Russell Wilson.  RUSSELL elevated golden and Baldwin.  Not the other way around.   

 

I was trying to explain that Russell is a 'good QB' BC he knows how to  rapport with whomever wr he has, whether that be Tate or Baldwin.

Not just TDs btw, all category of stats.

Flacco did elevate Marlon's game BC yes he made a rapport with marlon, but it was more of a anamoly since it was for 1year and not on consistent basis.

So when Baldwin scores like 5 TDs this season, you will gladly come back in here and admit that he was an anomaly too right? After all, the entire basis for Wilson elevating Baldwin is based ONLY on TD catches, and if he doesn't have double digit TDs again, that means that it was an anomaly.

I'll bookmark this and revisit in about 6 months. Hope you are prepared to defend your argument better then.

[Winchester]

Lol you guys are so gullible. I was being sarcastic cuz he has like 100 rating yet management was looking for a replacement. 

[rmcjacket23]

24 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Lol you guys are so gullible. I was being sarcastic cuz he has like 100 rating yet management was looking for a replacement. 

I wouldn't say they were looking for a replacement. They just aren't willing to commit to him long term yet.

[Winchester]

57 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I wouldn't say they were looking for a replacement. They just aren't willing to commit to him long term yet.

Just after the draft one of the network's reported qbs bills management was rumored to have an interest in. I was working on my laptop at the time multi tasking so I just heard a piece  of it. Qb rating is not without its many flaws and holes but it is a jumping off point.  His pro bowl debut definitely has many talking ravens should have kept him and he and Joe cool compete.

[rmcjacket23]

29 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Just after the draft one of the network's reported qbs bills management was rumored to have an interest in. I was working on my laptop at the time multi tasking so I just heard a piece  of it. Qb rating is not without its many flaws and holes but it is a jumping off point.  His pro bowl debut definitely has many talking ravens should have kept him and he and Joe cool compete.

They were interested in many developmental QBs, just like most teams were.

And I'm certainly not interested in fan perception of players based on things like Pro Bowl appearances and QB rating. We've been over the gigantic amount of flaws in both cases ad nausea. If you're using either to identify a positive for a player, you're pretty much admitting that they are average.

[Winchester]

13 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

They were interested in many developmental QBs, just like most teams were.

And I'm certainly not interested in fan perception of players based on things like Pro Bowl appearances and QB rating. We've been over the gigantic amount of flaws in both cases ad nausea. If you're using either to identify a positive for a player, you're pretty much admitting that they are average.

Used to identify how great Joe Montana Rodgers and Brady is. It is statistics. That and the eye test what else youn going to us to front a player as one of the best

[BmoreBird22]

13 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Used to identify how great Joe Montana Rodgers and Brady is. It is statistics. That and the eye test what else youn going to us to front a player as one of the best

Wanna know how useless passer rating is? Logan Thomas has a passer rating of 101.9, despite completing a single pass in nine attempts. It was also a dump off to Andre Ellington who gained most of the 81 yards by YAC. 

Tyrod wasn't even originally selected. He was an alternate. 

I don't think anyone says Joe Montana was great because he had X number of Pro Bowls. Nah, they just talk about those rings or his All-Pros.

[Virginia 55]

Flacco is definitely overrated. This should come at no surprise. I have him as the most overrated QB in the league.  JMHO

[harfordravenfan]

1 hour ago, Virginia 55 said:

Flacco is definitely overrated. This should come at no surprise. I have him as the most overrated QB in the league.  JMHO

Depends where you're rating him. He's not the best but he is very much above average. 

[Winchester]

5 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Wanna know how useless passer rating is? Logan Thomas has a passer rating of 101.9, despite completing a single pass in nine attempts. It was also a dump off to Andre Ellington who gained most of the 81 yards by YAC. 

Tyrod wasn't even originally selected. He was an alternate. 

I don't think anyone says Joe Montana was great because he had X number of Pro Bowls. Nah, they just talk about those rings or his All-Pros.

His numbers are used when somebody says he played on a great team. Over a season of 500 attempts it becomes more relevant.  I agree it should be tweaked but it isn't totally irrelevant

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, Winchester said:

His numbers are used when somebody says he played on a great team. Over a season of 500 attempts it becomes more relevant.  I agree it should be tweaked but it isn't totally irrelevant

It's a useless stat that doesn't take into account down and distance, quarter, time left, receiver drops, throw aways, spikes, drops, or YAC.

[Winchester]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

It's a useless stat that doesn't take into account down and distance, quarter, time left, receiver drops, throw aways, spikes, drops, or YAC.

Like I said it needs to be tweaked but many stats you just mentioned is cohesive with the qb. Why is it every stat that that says something bad about a raven up is useless but every stat that says elite about a raven is the platinum standard. How many peeps around here use wins only to project Joe as an elite qb?? When it's a team sport. If a championship was the lone factor it would mean Dilfer is better than Marino. Same with analysts. He or she says something bad about a raven everybody attacks his credibility. Say something good and everybody here has a parade. It's flawed and NEEDS to be tweaked but Brady Manning Brees and Rodgers are always top6 in rating so it isn't useless. Like the combine its not the tell all but it is not totally irrelevant

[BmoreBird22]

4 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Like I said it needs to be tweaked but many stats you just mentioned is cohesive with the qb. Why is it every stat that that says something bad about a raven up is useless but every stat that says elite about a raven is the platinum standard. How many peeps around here use wins only to project Joe as an elite qb?? When it's a team sport. If a championship was the lone factor it would mean Dilfer is better than Marino. Same with analysts. He or she says something bad about a raven everybody attacks his credibility. Say something good and everybody here has a parade. It's flawed and NEEDS to be tweaked but Brady Manning Brees and Rodgers are always top6 in rating so it isn't useless. Like the combine its not the tell all but it is not totally irrelevant

Tony Romo once had the highest rating in NFL history. Make sense of that 

[Wisdom]

3 hours ago, Virginia 55 said:

Flacco is definitely overrated. This should come at no surprise. I have him as the most overrated QB in the league.  JMHO

Indeed, he is.  Overrated and inconsistent!!!

[Winchester]

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Tony Romo once had the highest rating in NFL history. Make sense of that 

Lol it is funny but Romo is a pretty good qb. Multiple 30-40 TD seasons with less than 12 ints. Like is Said it is flawed and needs to be tweaked for sure. But it is not totally irrelevant.

[Wisdom]

11 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I would certainly hope you would take Luck over Flacco. He's a very good QB who is also 5 years younger.

 

Yes, Luck is with good upside.   Far more accurate and consistent than Flacco will ever be. 

[BmoreBird22]

14 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Lol it is funny but Romo is a pretty good qb. Multiple 30-40 TD seasons with less than 12 ints. Like is Said it is flawed and needs to be tweaked for sure. But it is not totally irrelevant.

Try three and no 40 touchdown seasons.

[ludy51]

2 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Try three and no 40 touchdown seasons.

Behind the best line in the league

[Virginia 55]

15 hours ago, harfordravenfan said:

Depends where you're rating him. He's not the best but he is very much above average. 

I definitely agree with you here. In all honesty and being fair to Flacco, he is only overrated because of his salary.  Which is the going rate for superbowl winning QB's.  But as far as his on the field play if he took 70 million for 5 years you wouldn't hear any complaints.  

Edited July 9, 2016 by Virginia 55

[harfordravenfan]

1 minute ago, Virginia 55 said:

I definitely agree you here. In all honesty and being fair to Flacco, he is only overrated because of his salary.  Which is the going rate for superbowl winning QB's.  But as far as his on the field play if he took 70 million for 5 years you wouldn't hear any complaints.  

He could play for a $1 a year and you'd still hear complaints but I agree with your point about going rate for a proven QB. There are QBs that haven't done anything in the post season getting almost as much

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

13 hours ago, Wisdom said:

Indeed, he is.  Overrated and inconsistent!!!

Overrated/underrated are relative terms. What is he overrated in comparison to?

yea if the consensus was that he's the best QB in the league - I'd agree that's overrating him. 

But many say he's terrible. That a defense and run game carried him his entire career and a SB. Those people underrate him. 

My opinion, he's a top 10 QB that's tough to place bc at times he was surrounded by a great D and run game, but at the same time has been in 5 different offenses with different coordinators every year, no consistent weapons, and rarely any top weapons. 

Bc of that there are questions as to whether that inconsistency is due to constantly stunting his development and progress, and having his abilities held back by a lack of talent around him.... Or are a lot of the positives (like wins) more result of having great defense and run game. I think 2011, 2012, and 2014 point to Flacco being very successful with no better than average defense and run game and little to no weapons. 

This year should be very telling so long as he's healthy. The D has some fresh talent and returning leadership with new talented vets as well. He's got the deepest cast of weapons we've ever had (though still no real top end talent) and finally some consistency in terms of his OC and offense. 

If the inconsistency is still there by end of this season and he's healthy, then I think some questions have validity. 

But if he carries the team, puts up some career numbers and we're playoff contenders then that should cement him in that 2nd tier of QBs. 

And I think that's about as objectively and fairly you can rate Joe. Anything else is either under or overrating him. He's shown flashes of being in that too 5 convo but he's not there yet bc he hasn't done it consistently. But he's also not nearly as bad as his haters make him out to be, as he hasn't had the weapons, consistent environment, or coaching that all the other top QBs have. 

[usmccharles]

37 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Overrated/underrated are relative terms. What is he overrated in comparison to?

yea if the consensus was that he's the best QB in the league - I'd agree that's overrating him. 

But many say he's terrible. That a defense and run game carried him his entire career and a SB. Those people underrate him. 

My opinion, he's a top 10 QB that's tough to place bc at times he was surrounded by a great D and run game, but at the same time has been in 5 different offenses with different coordinators every year, no consistent weapons, and rarely any top weapons. 

Bc of that there are questions as to whether that inconsistency is due to constantly stunting his development and progress, and having his abilities held back by a lack of talent around him.... Or are a lot of the positives (like wins) more result of having great defense and run game. I think 2011, 2012, and 2014 point to Flacco being very successful with no better than average defense and run game and little to no weapons. 

This year should be very telling so long as he's healthy. The D has some fresh talent and returning leadership with new talented vets as well. He's got the deepest cast of weapons we've ever had (though still no real top end talent) and finally some consistency in terms of his OC and offense. 

If the inconsistency is still there by end of this season and he's healthy, then I think some questions have validity. 

But if he carries the team, puts up some career numbers and we're playoff contenders then that should cement him in that 2nd tier of QBs. 

And I think that's about as objectively and fairly you can rate Joe. Anything else is either under or overrating him. He's shown flashes of being in that too 5 convo but he's not there yet bc he hasn't done it consistently. But he's also not nearly as bad as his haters make him out to be, as he hasn't had the weapons, consistent environment, or coaching that all the other top QBs have. 

This is about as objective as can be. 

One thing I don't get about all these people saying Joe is over rated, inconsistent, over-paid, etc....What yours point? I have always been a supporter of Joe and im not going to sit here and say he is the best QB in the NFL, I don't think any person on this board here will.  I think most on here put him in that 7-10 range and are more than ok with that.  You can say something bad about almost every QB in the league, even the 'elite' ones.  Some of the fans must have forgot what it was like before we had Joe, its nice to know who is going to be under center every year, he may not be the best, but he has proven to get the job done, better than a lot of other QBs as well.   And the contract talk is just non-sense....its market value people, im still shocked some people don't understand that. 

[757RavensFan]

On 7/7/2016 at 11:22 PM, Winchester said:

Tyrol Taylor played very well. Nearly 100 rating. Ravens could of kept him and traded joe cool and saved a lot of money. And have the higher rated qb.

Keep a guy who had zero NFL starts over a Superbowl MVP??? Yeah that makes perfect sense.

[flynismo]

On 7/8/2016 at 8:13 PM, Winchester said:

How many peeps around here use wins only to project Joe as an elite qb?? When it's a team sport.

When people talk about guys like Manning, Brady or Montana as the greatest QBs of all time, is it because of stats, or because they were winners? Of course, because they were winners. Just like Favre, who owned many passing records, was considered great, but never considered among the greatest to ever play. Do teams pay QBs to put up big stats? Or do they pay them to win?

My point being, yes, it is a team sport. Raw number of wins aren't what they look at, because as any Ravens fan can attest to, it doesn't matter how many times Flacco puts the team in position to win if guys drop game winning passes, miss game winning kicks (thank god for Tucker) and blow last minute leads. What matters is that Flacco puts this team in position to win on a very consistent basis. That is why people misguidedly just look at W-L record and point to that.